• Friendly reminder: The politics section is a place where a lot of differing opinions are raised. You may not like what you read here but it is someone's opinion. As long as the debate is respectful you are free to debate freely. Also, the views and opinions expressed by forum members may not necessarily reflect those of GBAtemp. Messages that the staff consider offensive or inflammatory may be removed in line with existing forum terms and conditions.

Germany, a Paradise for slackers ?

Clydefrosch

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,020
Trophies
2
XP
4,596
Country
Germany
I guess you really believe that Humans are good people do you ?

There are lots of ways not to get a job if you don't want to and the do not controll you as much as you think they do ;)
How else can you explain people like that one friend of mine who only write an application once every few weeks and doesn't get into trouble with this ?
I would guess by them actually doing more than what you think they do?
this isn't how any job center operates, your friend has his quota of applications and he's certainly abiding by it.

Of course I never got Hartz4 / ALG2 so I haven't experienced it myself and can only say what I see in tv read in the news and get told by my friend (his brother gets Hartz4 as well -.-V its shameful for their parents) even if you need to write applications every now and then you could send out "bad" ones or have some stuff missing or wrong or whatever and if they still invite you for test working you come late or bring an paper from the doc saying your are ill or whatever.

why is the guy who measures how arbeitslosengeld 2 works on his experience receiving arbeitslosengeld 1 trying to explain anything something to me?
I've received H4 for about a year after i finished my masters degree.
the first thing that happend was they put me in a 2 month program to teach me how to write my resume. together with a bunch of 50+ year olds who never operated a pc and teens who quit school early. all the while, i had a 5 application quota and was called in every three weeks so they could fill their quotas.
and if you do those things, like sending out bad applications, they will punish you.
i know this is not a thing that happens on tv (because guess what? that stuff isnt real), but its a thing that happens in the real world if you dont play by their rules.
but again, I invite you to quit your job and see how much easier life is once you're on H4.


And yes its easy to get this from many doctors ... my Mother pretended to be ill for many month untill she finaly got her pension with an age of only 40 years ! now she might really be ill but thats because of all the drugs and alcohol and cigarets and whatever she took -.-V still you can make most doctors believe sooner or later even if they can't find anything.
my guess is you're a little piece of shit and your mother was ill in one way or another. you don't pretend to be ill and binge drugs and alcohol because you're fine.
your anecdotal evidence does not undo reality. the system is inherently unfair and not just to the people in it. because H4 receivers cant say no to any job, no matter the conditions, its a pretty big part in why your wage has been almost stagnant for over a decade now. why ever raise wages like in the good old days when people can be legally forced to work for nothing?

And my former doctor who barely let my grandparents and other people I know die because he never really looked at them gave you whatever medicine you wanted and usually only asked most people "how long you want to stay at home?" ... while I usually told him "as long as you think is required" I once just said "3 weeks" and say what ? 3 weeks extra holliday because my head hurt and I didn't want to go to work that one day like this ...

yeah we all know stories of such doctors, but neither are they the norm, they're also getting ever more rare. because guess what, insurers have been working to get rid of those rather successfully. also, the jobcenter can order a second opinion if they feel like you and your doctor are cheating the system. (which can also entail a hefty cut to h4)

jesus man, i'm not saying its impossible to settle inside this system, but if you've never been inside, stop judging. its not half as nice as your delusional fantasies.

why are you even whining, the H4 raise doesnt even offset inflation since the last raise. (and it hasnt for years).
 

Youkai

Demon
OP
Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
2,552
Trophies
1
Age
36
Location
Germany , NRW
XP
2,444
Country
Germany
my guess is you're a little piece of shit.

thanks -.-V

first I wasn't talking about medica drugs but druggy drugs like LSD, Heroin and Kokain and whatever you can imagin ...

second, no idea where you live but I guess there is a hugh difference in the job center around Germany, maybe you had bad luck with yours ...
I know about these "got 2 hours a day into some kind of school to learn hot to write an application" stuff, another friend who finaly got work had to go there and he told me there was hardly ever any teacher there so they even had to tell the Job Center several Times about it untill they finaly could go to another place which wasn't much better. He came to my place to let me check his stuff some times (even though I don't really know any better) and now he finaly got a place where he can do a proper job training (earning 300€ a month)


Don't know if they do something about the doctors but I know enough people that told me over and over again that they have similiar doctors ... after I moved town for my new job (moved 200km away to work!) I haven't seen any doctor nearby who would do that but thats actually a good thing ... I hardly ever go to a doc if not really needed and if I need it I want him/her to look at me...



And about trying to live from Hartz4 money ... I did 2 ! Job training the first one 3 1/2 year with a salary of 800€ and the second one 3 years with 700-800€ and from this money I still had to pay everything except that I wasn't allowed to get the cheap food offers for the jobless and the cheap clothes as they want proof that you are poor (maybe I could have gotten something like this but no idea where from) living with my gf who is a student in her last Master year right know we got another 400€ from her parents so we hat ~1200 for 2 people that was less than my jobless friend and his wife got if you count in the money for the flat.
Of course its hard to go to the government for the money (for some people) and beg for it but than again I wouldn't like to sit on the street and beg people for money as some do ... It is probably a different story for everyone.
That one friend who finaly got a Job even told me he did some illegal stuff like seeling drugs he got in the netherlands back in Germany because he had no money and because of some circumstances he didn't got Hartz4 (he did quit his former mini job himself making him not getting any money for 3 month) still if you know what you are doing you can do it withouth much of a problem.

If you "work" and learn how the system works you can benefit from it a lot, if you just use it withouth learning how to play the game you will probably loose and really have a Problem.




P.S. just yesterday at Gallileo they said in Germany we use about 6,50€ a day for food and they checked if that is possible if you mainly eat at Fast Food places, as most of the not so intelligent people often claim it should be the cheapest possible option ...
They checked and for these 6,50 a day you could hardly get anything at the most well known places ... only Ikea was really cheap but than again they are not really a fast food chain ^^V
I know it doesn't really has much to do with hartz4 but mainly the not so intelligent people need this (and those who might just slack of or preffer to abuse the system) you can imagine why many of them might really have money problems.
 

kumikochan

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
3,753
Trophies
0
Age
36
Location
Tongeren
XP
3,311
Country
Belgium
That is just being pedantic. You know full well if Germany says something that others will listen, and other places will look to Germany's position, where if somewhere like Estonia said something then not so much.
No it's not. Don't be so full of yourself
I agree the EU does not seem quite as... blocky as the likes of America or some of the smaller subdivisions within European countries, Belgium itself being a rather spectacular example of that, but to assume Germany doesn't curry more than its 29 votes... yeah.
No they don't. Don't be so full of yourself. Never ever saw where belgium, france or the netherlands ever followed what merkel said. Belgium as an example is kicking out refugees constantly while your country opens them with open arms. Your country accepts Erdogan with open arms while Belgium tells him that he can't do speeches in public and kicking out turkish officials during Turkish election. How is that following Germany ?
 
Last edited by kumikochan,

FAST6191

Techromancer
Editorial Team
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
36,798
Trophies
3
XP
28,284
Country
United Kingdom
No they don't. Don't be so full of yourself. Never ever saw where belgium, france or the netherlands ever followed what merkel said. Belgium as an example is kicking out refugees constantly while your country opens them with open arms. Your country accepts Erdogan with open arms while Belgium tells him that he can't do speeches in public and kicking out turkish officials during Turkish election. How is that following Germany ?
Free speech type issues aside those are minor trifling things. When it comes to things that really matter to people other than tabloid headline writers Germany's already considerable clout is rather magnified.
 

sarkwalvein

There's hope for a Xenosaga port.
Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
8,505
Trophies
2
Age
41
Location
Niedersachsen
XP
11,199
Country
Germany
The reality is that there is a limited freedom, any given country can boast so much, but they end up being limited by the decisions and possible punishments coming from the bigger fishes that impact on their economy, on their policy, and on the boundaries of their freedom.
Don't worry, as much "influence" Germany may or may not have regarding one or other vote, America and China have a lot more influence on the EU and on Germany themselves.
 
Last edited by sarkwalvein,

kumikochan

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
3,753
Trophies
0
Age
36
Location
Tongeren
XP
3,311
Country
Belgium
Free speech type issues aside those are minor trifling things. When it comes to things that really matter to people other than tabloid headline writers Germany's already considerable clout is rather magnified.
And that was my point. Headline writers mostly talk about Merkel making non europeans think that merkel holds the most power in the union while she clearly doesn't. Other european countries don't follow what merkel does.
 

FAST6191

Techromancer
Editorial Team
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
36,798
Trophies
3
XP
28,284
Country
United Kingdom
So I feel sorry for people that don't read beyond the headlines, especially those which think the political top offices really matter (it seems they are figureheads in most of Europe). I still maintain that Germany in addition to its own large number of votes hold considerable sway over much of Europe (they say vote this way and look at this nice trade contract for your natural resources you are mining which will appear, you think Spain is going to buy them?) and in turn. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
 

Quantumcat

Dead and alive
Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
15,144
Trophies
0
Location
Canberra, Australia
Website
boot9strap.com
XP
11,094
Country
Australia
Haven't read all the replies, but to those thinking on the negative: this sort of policy creates upward pressure on wages. No one can get away with paying their workers chicken feed, because no one would work for that little if they could have the same quality of life without working. The reason US companies can get away with paying some of their workers so little that even working full time they are in effective poverty is because there is practically no social safety net. Is it really something to be proud of that you could work 40 hours a week and only be able to afford a broken down 1 bedroom apartment for you and your 3 children, and sometimes not have enough money for food or bills? I don't think that is something worth celebrating personally. In Germany if you're willing to work you can live comfortably, and if you lose your job you aren't going to become homeless and starve while you look for a new one, because your country cares about its citizens and will look after them. In the US if you are from a poor family that couldn't afford college for you, you can look forward to being poor all your life even if you work your fingers to the bone. If you lose your job and can't get a new one right away, hello living on the street. Which country do you think is "freer".
 

FAST6191

Techromancer
Editorial Team
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
36,798
Trophies
3
XP
28,284
Country
United Kingdom
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/09/pf/cost-of-raising-a-child-2015/index.html
"$233,610 to raise a child born in 2015..... And that number only covers costs from birth through age 17"

Multiply that by three (though maybe 2.5 if you can hand down clothes and were not lumped with triplets or something).

Relevant as of the last one


In discussions like this though I do find the US... appearance of detached callousness to be odd or at least bemusing.

I shall stop there though as I will be linking comedy sketches for hours if I start now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xexyz

Nightwish

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
431
Trophies
1
XP
1,534
Country
Portugal
Work and make the world a better place. .

I keep hearing of this mystical jobland where wages are livable and you don't get sacked for being sick. Not that I can personally complain as a software developer.
There's also plenty of work that makes the world a worst place, TBH.

How did Germany made the economic rules for the Eurozone ?
You're right, it's not. Merkel and Schäuble were/are just the front for the European Financial system, and I'm sure we'll know many not-really-surprising revelations about the implementation of ordoliberalism, but there's many a tale about the EC and the ECB to be told as well.

Don't worry. Donald Trump is here to drain the swamp and make America great again. We'll all be wiping our asses with gold in no time.

That's the thing with modern economics: it's not connected to precious metals anymore, so common sense doesn't apply at all. It still isn't hard to get that half of his fiscal incentives will leave immediately to foreign investors, though.
 

sarkwalvein

There's hope for a Xenosaga port.
Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
8,505
Trophies
2
Age
41
Location
Niedersachsen
XP
11,199
Country
Germany
Life's still good. At least you have good weather.
Don't underestimate the importance of good weather.
I don't know if the sun is real anymore or just something I saw in a dream...
 

smile72

NewsBot
Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
1,910
Trophies
0
Age
30
Location
???
XP
983
Country
Here in America, if you are homeless, lazy, pregnant, clinically mentally ill, illegally residing in the country as an undocumented immigrant, or any of those combined, you are eligible for:

Free Housing...
But it takes a VERY long time, most waiting lists are well over a year or more to even be considered. Then, IF you get lucky enough to be approved, you have TONS of restrictions for living there, like weekly inspections, limited visitors, assigned parking, quiet hours, and you can't modify ANYTHING that's part of the home/structure/building. You're basically a prisoner in your own "home". (Too chaotic and restrictive for me.)
The second part of this is you can join a volunteer group called Habitat For Humanity. You basically spend X amount of volunteer hours building homes with other volunteers, FOR a volunteer who has volunteered and met the hour requirement to have their house built. It's really cool! (I just don't know the number of volunteer hours involved to achieve having a home built for you)

Free Healthcare...
Well, almost. Well, okay not quite... It's a complicated mess, but it's not hard to sign up for it, and it covers very basic needs and costs. Most emergency (life-threatening) stuff is covered. I haven't had to use it yet, and I also haven't paid a cent since I've been on it either. But I can go to an Urgent Care and be seen within a few minutes, sometimes an hour or two if they are busy and short-staffed. You will still have to pay small amounts of cash on the spot, like a $20 co-pay for some prescriptions. And the GoodRx app on your phone can even get you great discounts on your prescription drugs, with or without insurance!

Food Stamps...
Food Stamps are basically a pre-loaded debit card for food benefits of up to $200 for a single person who isn't working, and if you have more people not working you get more food benefit amounts. You can work and bring home under a certain amount of money, and still quality for Food Stamps, but the amount will be calculated based on your GROSS income (Before deductions and taxes are taken out) which isn't accurate at all to what you ACTUALLY take home (Your NET income). For example, I work full-time and barely qualify for $17 a month, which won't buy me hardly shit to eat... But every little bit helps.

WIC...
This is a "Women and Children First" program by our government that gives paper vouchers for free baby formula and fresh produce. You simply have to meet an income requirement and you don't even need to prove you are pregnant. (I hope that changes and you have to take a pregnancy test to qualify, because people will fake it to get extra vouchers for friends etc, taking advantage of the program)

Cash Benefits...
Now don't get too excited... This again is income-calculated. You basically have to be homeless while *somehow* paying $800+ a month in rent to qualify, and being pregnant or having kids helps. It's primarily for things that Food Stamps don't cover, such as diapers and baby wipes.

Reduced-Price Bus Pass...
To qualify for a reduced buss pass, you need to be either a Senior Citizen, an Honored Citizen (Usually medically-diagnosed with mental problems), or meet an income requirement. Some places of employment even have a deal worked out with city transit companies where you can get a reduced buss pass simply by being an employee of that company, to encourage less cars on the road for a more eco-friendly commute.

These all vary between states, but are more or less the same on a federal level.
As a person who has used America's welfare. I can promise you it's shit. If not worse.
 

Bimmel

~ Game Soundtrack Collector ~
Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
2,302
Trophies
2
Age
43
XP
3,778
Country
Gambia, The
I keep hearing of this mystical jobland where wages are livable and you don't get sacked for being sick. Not that I can personally complain as a software developer.
There's also plenty of work that makes the world a worst place, TBH.
Not working is no solution either in my opinion. At least when we talk about Germany.
And yes, you don't get sacked for being sick for a longer time. Some "working" people use this system to have a good time, which is also kind of frustrating.

But my solution instead of giving up is this one: Educate myself further and search for a better job, where I might have the power to change such things.
 

BullyWiiPlaza

Nintendo Hacking <3
Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
1,932
Trophies
0
XP
2,467
Country
Germany
I don't think foreigners should be eligible for social security at all.
They are, they get get benefits like normal citizens but don't necessarily work here. It's ridiculous. Germany is the only country in the world running such a policy and they are loved and exploited for that. Oh, well. It can be considered smart for reputation's sake or very naive. I tend to go with the latter though. They are not responsible for fixing everyone else's problems. :P
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quantumcat

TotalInsanity4

GBAtemp Supreme Overlord
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,800
Trophies
0
Location
Under a rock
XP
9,813
Country
United States
They are, they get get benefits like normal citizens but don't necessarily work here. It's ridiculous. Germany is the only country in the world running such a policy and they are loved and exploited for that. Oh, well. It can be considered smart for reputation's sake or very naive. I tend to go with the latter though. They are not responsible for fixing everyone else's problems. :P
They have to become citizens first, don't they? Or at least be under a certain age, show an interest in living in the country for an extended period of time, and pay taxes
 
Last edited by TotalInsanity4,

Julizi

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
110
Trophies
0
Age
123
XP
338
Country
Germany
They have to become citizens first, don't they? Or at least be under a certain age, show an interest in living in the country for an extended period of time, and pay taxes
You will get a huge problem if the first sentence in your constitution is "The diginity of man is inviolable." and you refuse to pay the amount of money you consider as the minimum to live a life in dignity (which is the amount of all social benefits) to foreigners. Of course there are some exception (especially for EU citizens) but in general someone who never worked in Germany will get the same amount of money that a German would get.
 
Last edited by Julizi,
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    realtimesave @ realtimesave: can troll SylverReZ the following day :)