Fusion GPS testimony released, parts of Trump-Russia dossier confirmed by a Trump campaign source

[Xzi]

lol we lived just fine before NN, obamacare and obama's regulations. we'll do fine without it. now my family and friends don't have to pay premiums out their asses for insurence nor have to serve time for not being able to pay for their kids insurence when they already paid out their asses. there's that chicken little syndrome XD not sure if you know or not but that's what presidents do..they change things, just like obama changed rules and regulations that bush made. do you even politic?

Bush actually made his own policy/legislative changes for better or worse, yes. Trump had one legislative accomplishment in 2017, and it was corporate welfare authored by Congress. The rest has been unilateral executive orders to tear down what others have created (GWB's Somalia refugees included), not anything that Trump himself has created.

When you make GWB look like a moderate, that's not a good thing.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

It's not a lie. They (friends AND family) were forced to get insurence for themselves, their wives and their kids. They worked offshore and IF they didn't pay for it, they'd have been locked up or highly fined for penalties. Mhm, that's it, I said NN because it was under obama's regulations.

They wouldn't have been locked up, they just would have been fined a percentage of their income: http://www.savingtoinvest.com/penalties-for-not-having-health-insurance-under-obamacare/. Which, they still will if they don't have insurance

 

[MaverickWellington]

They wouldn't have been locked up, they just would have been fined a percentage of their income: http://www.savingtoinvest.com/penalties-for-not-having-health-insurance-under-obamacare/. Which, they still will if they don't have insurance

Which is dumb and should be removed. There shouldn't be penalties for not having insurance.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Which is dumb and should be removed. There shouldn't be penalties for not having insurance.

It has to be there for the ACA to work, unless we move to true single-payer. If everybody isn't paying into the pot, then there won't be money to give to people who are trying to actually use the insurance

And besides, the fees are less than paying for the insurance, anyway

 

[Tigran]

And getting sick or injured should never put someone in danger of losing their home and lively hood.

Or a guy die because his Gofundme was 50 dollars short of being able to afford life saving medicine.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

And getting sick or injured should never put someone in danger of losing their home and lively hood.

Or a guy die because his Gofundme was 50 dollars short of being able to afford life saving medicine.

Precisely

 

[MaverickWellington]

It has to be there for the ACA to work, unless we move to true single-payer. If everybody isn't paying into the pot, then there won't be money to give to people who are trying to actually use the insurance

And besides, the fees are less than paying for the insurance, anyway

They shouldn't be there at all. People who choose to not have insurance/can't afford it should not be forced into paying for other people's insurance. Full stop. I don't care how nice ACA might be.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

They shouldn't be there at all. People who choose to not have insurance/can't afford it should not be forced into paying for other people's insurance. Full stop. I don't care how nice ACA might be.

I'd really hope that people would be able to afford to pay 2.5% of their income, considering that's the value that's used. And as far as I'm aware, people who fall under a certain income range don't have to pay a fee, they're just able to enroll into the system

 

[Tigran]

They shouldn't be there at all. People who choose to not have insurance/can't afford it should not be forced into paying for other people's insurance. Full stop. I don't care how nice ACA might be.

No one should die because his Gofundme was 50 dollars short of being able to afford life saving medicine.

 

[MaverickWellington]

No one should die because his Gofundme was 50 dollars short of being able to afford life saving medicine.

And when you make it so that money has to come from people who can't afford insurance/don't want to buy it, you are not actually tackling the fucking problem, you're encouraging it.

"I want to charge shittons of money for life saving medicines because I'm a cunt" is a problem. The solution is not "Okay, I will take money from everyone to fund your cunt behaviors." The solution is "No, this is life saving medicine and you have no right to jack up the prices."

 

[TotalInsanity4]

And when you make it so that money has to come from people who can't afford insurance/don't want to buy it, you are not actually tackling the fucking problem, you're encouraging it.

"I want to charge shittons of money for life saving medicines because I'm a cunt" is a problem. The solution is not "Okay, I will take money from everyone to fund your cunt behaviors." The solution is "No, this is life saving medicine and you have no right to jack up the prices."

I can agree with that. The amount of money that goes into the single-payer pot should ideally be a percentage of income (preferably on an exponential or linear slider as income increases). Could even just come straight out of income tax as long as tax brackets are fixed

 

[MaverickWellington]

I can agree with that. The amount of money that goes into the single-payer pot should ideally be a percentage of income (preferably on an exponential or linear slider as income increases). Could even just come straight out of income tax as long as tax brackets are fixed

I don't really know of a solution that's fair to everyone and won't piss a significant chunk of people off. On one hand, the medicines should cost money as both payment to the researchers as well as to cover the costs of the research itself. The medical industry creates important, life saving medicines that should be rewarded, but at the same time people who jack up the prices just to make bank off insurance companies and people desperate for it are fucking tools. It's a difficult debate to have because, I personally feel anyways, there's no proper solution that makes everyone happy.

 

[Futurdreamz]

*blank stare*

We... don't really have to think about basic healthcare costs at all here. Other stuff like Dental is another story, but it's covered through my work so I only pay ~$100 or less for fillings and cleanings.

 

[Tigran]

*blank stare*

We... don't really have to think about basic healthcare costs at all here. Other stuff like Dental is another story, but it's covered through my work so I only pay ~$100 or less for fillings and cleanings.

But.. But.. Don't you know! You're healthcare is so bad that so many die every day! You all come down to the USA to get heath care. (No.. I'm not being serious.. but that's actually the argument a lot of people use.)

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I don't really know of a solution that's fair to everyone and won't piss a significant chunk of people off. On one hand, the medicines should cost money as both payment to the researchers as well as to cover the costs of the research itself. The medical industry creates important, life saving medicines that should be rewarded, but at the same time people who jack up the prices just to make bank off insurance companies and people desperate for it are fucking tools. It's a difficult debate to have because, I personally feel anyways, there's no proper solution that makes everyone happy.

Ideally you would just have a government-backed insurance program that automatically covers emergency operations and pre-existing conditions that require medication, while (at the very least loosely) regulating the maximum price of life-saving or changing drugs. Then you could allow the free market to offer more tailored plans that can be modularly added on top of the single-payer plan. That's what I could see making everyone happy; the free market remains intact, but nobody would have to pay out the ass to go to the hospital

 

[Xzi]

I don't really know of a solution that's fair to everyone and won't piss a significant chunk of people off. On one hand, the medicines should cost money as both payment to the researchers as well as to cover the costs of the research itself. The medical industry creates important, life saving medicines that should be rewarded, but at the same time people who jack up the prices just to make bank off insurance companies and people desperate for it are fucking tools. It's a difficult debate to have because, I personally feel anyways, there's no proper solution that makes everyone happy.

Too many Shkrelis of the world. We need to regulate drug prices, even if that means you can only charge 2x the cost of the drug. This 5x to 10x stuff is out of control.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

*blank stare*

We... don't really have to think about basic healthcare costs at all here. Other stuff like Dental is another story, but it's covered through my work so I only pay ~$100 or less for fillings and cleanings.

We know. The conservative party just has a boner for capitalism down here in the good ole US of A

 

[Tigran]

We know. The conservative party just has a boner for capitalism down here in the good ole US of A

Such a boner that they are allowing some to die because his Gofundme was 50 dollars short of being able to afford life saving medicine.

 

[StarTrekVoyager]

While all these people die, us French are enjoying our free healthcare system that was voted by De Gaulle, a conservative
Also, all of this crap is why I love being at LaREM and a proud centrist.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

While all these people die, us French are enjoying our free healthcare system that was voted by De Gaulle, a conservative
Also, all of this crap is why I love being at LaREM and a proud centrist.

You definitely wouldn't be a centrist by US standards, you'd actually be pretty left-wing here