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Homosexual people want to marry in France?

BlueStar

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Saken said:
BlueStar said:
Saken said:
French are Catholics.
Therefore they believe in Adam and Little Joey the Choirboy, not Adam and Steve.
I'm an athiest.

FYP

France is a secular nation and not a Catholic Theocracy, not sure if that's something that's passed you by. The fact you're not allowed to wear a crucifix or rosary beads in French schools might have been a clue.
 

blackdragonbaham

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don't know why the french are getting more and more conservative and why people still have a problem with it nowaday. what's the problem about giving the gay permission to get into a marriage. it's not like they are going to clears the land from homosexual relationships with that decision, so what's the point of that stubborn action? it would be kinda discriminating to leave the marriage as privilege just to heterosexual couples, especially in a age of human rights and one more because there isn't a real rational reason to keep them from doing this. also it is really abject to justify this from a religious attitude as i think.
i don't want to sound rude but the most time the religious matter itself seems like a whole contradiction or peg to justify actions like this although there isn't a real reason in sight. really absurd
 

ioukta

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what's the problem with NOT giving them the right to perform a ceremony that has religious roots and was since the begining of times MEANT for a man and a woman ONLY?

They survived all this time without it no? why push their views on people? In France we have the PACS which gives gay couples the same financial benefits of married couples. Still not happy?

I understand they want the "right" to get married so that they can do "everything" like heterosexuals, but getting married is not a right, it is and always was a religious ceremony that with time came with financial benefits. Marriage is not social, it's religious.

Why not have a little respect for the union that brought them to this world? the heterosexual union?

They should just get over it IMO

BTW no one is BORN gay, until you find a chemical or genetical proof you CANNOT CLAIM you were born that way, I know of many who are former homosexuals. Google it you'll see. Several in my church too.

i don't see them fighting that hard to give blood (which they can't do) that could help a ton of people, or fight to put both partner’s names on the home owner’s insurance policy... or fight to be scout leaders...
 

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ioukta said:
what's the problem with NOT giving them the right to perform a ceremony that has religious roots and was since the begining of times MEANT for a man and a woman ONLY? Just to let you know, I looked up the rules on marriage and found nothing that says it's strictly between a man and a woman.

They survived all this time without it no? why push their views on people? In France we have the PACS which gives gay couples the same financial benefits of married couples. Still not happy?

I understand they want the "right" to get married so that they can do "everything" like heterosexuals, but getting married is not a right, it is and always was a religious ceremony that with time came with financial benefits. Marriage is not social, it's religious. Wrong! Marriage is contract with the state, religious is only a middle man

Why not have a little respect for the union that brought them to this world? the heterosexual union? Again who made that a rule?

They should just get over it IMO

BTW no one is BORN gay, until you find a chemical or genetical proof you CANNOT CLAIM you were born that way, I know of many who are former homosexuals. Google it you'll see. Several in my church too. There is evidence that people are born gay and there is evidence of people "converting" to be heterosexuals, but there is also evidence stating that those same people have depression as well often secretly still engage in homosexual behavior.
 

Waflix

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Lightning said:
granville said:
I changed the topic title to be a little less offensive in terms of slang.

I'm not gay, but as a supported of gay rights, this is a sad day for human freedom. Another little bit of that freedom chipped away...

It's kind of interesting though. As a small child i visited France. That was my first encounter with homosexual people. At the time, i didn't understand why two women would be kissing one another. It seemed much more open (at least at the time) and public than it tends to be over here in the US. I too am surprised about this restriction. I always thought Europe was more open minded and accepting about homosexuality in general (some countries at least, France included).

Thanks for the title change, didn´t think of it.


Holland is very open minded!


Would you please, please say 'The Netherlands' next time? Holland is the name for the provinces Noord-Holland and South-Holland.


QUOTE
In meerdere landen in de Europese Unie is een homohuwelijk wel mogelijk, waaronder Nederland, België, Spanje, Portugal en Zweden.
This is what nu.nl (source) also said.
Translated it means something like
"In multiple countrys in the Europian Union a gay marriage is possible, as in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and Sweden." (Sorry for the bad translation).
I thought every [edit]Europian[/edit] country was pro gay marriage.
 

Sterling

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A Gay Little Catboy said:
ioukta said:
what's the problem with NOT giving them the right to perform a ceremony that has religious roots and was since the begining of times MEANT for a man and a woman ONLY? Just to let you know, I looked up the rules on marriage and found nothing that says it's strictly between a man and a woman.
If you are religious, then yes, it is strictly between a man and a woman. Those were the original rules from the very beginning of written history. In fact, Homosexuality has existed since the beginning of written history as well. Homosexuals were always persecuted as lesser beings, and they aren't. Its wrong to persecute someone for being gay. However in my views, its also wrong to push yourself into an area which was always reserved for union between a man, and a woman, and the God (or ancestors, or whatever) you worship. Like I said what society has now twisted Marriage into is wrong. Marriage should not hold any sway in society, but a document from the State you live in should.
 

ioukta

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A Gay Little Catboy said:
ioukta said:
what's the problem with NOT giving them the right to perform a ceremony that has religious roots and was since the begining of times MEANT for a man and a woman ONLY? Just to let you know, I looked up the rules on marriage and found nothing that says it's strictly between a man and a woman. Rules? you mean you looked in the Bible? the FIRST book that mentioned marriage? You need to be reminded of the what the word ROOTS mean?

They survived all this time without it no? why push their views on people? In France we have the PACS which gives gay couples the same financial benefits of married couples. Still not happy?

I understand they want the "right" to get married so that they can do "everything" like heterosexuals, but getting married is not a right, it is and always was a religious ceremony that with time came with financial benefits. Marriage is not social, it's religious. Wrong! Marriage is contract with the state, religious is only a middle man It did not start out that way buddy, states didn't exist in ancient times, so no that's not what marriage started out as

Why not have a little respect for the union that brought them to this world? the heterosexual union? Again who made that a rule?
yeah i know respect is not a rule anywhere, you know that don't you? but you ARE AWARE people are born out of a NON HOMOEXUAL union right?why you had to comment on that I'll never get lol

They should just get over it IMO

BTW no one is BORN gay, until you find a chemical or genetical proof you CANNOT CLAIM you were born that way, I know of many who are former homosexuals. Google it you'll see. Several in my church too. There is evidence that people are born gay and there is evidence of people "converting" to be heterosexuals, but there is also evidence stating that those same people have depression as well often secretly still engage in homosexual behavior. When you can bring me scientific evidence and a homexexual gene, then I'll believe that

We have the PACS here, they get the same benefits :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacte_civil_de_solidarit%C3%A9
 

The Catboy

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ioukta said:
A Gay Little Catboy said:
ioukta said:
what's the problem with NOT giving them the right to perform a ceremony that has religious roots and was since the begining of times MEANT for a man and a woman ONLY? Just to let you know, I looked up the rules on marriage and found nothing that says it's strictly between a man and a woman. Rules? you mean you looked in the Bible? the FIRST book that mentioned marriage? You need to be reminded of the what the word ROOTS mean? Big misunderstanding, settled this in a PM.

I understand they want the "right" to get married so that they can do "everything" like heterosexuals, but getting married is not a right, it is and always was a religious ceremony that with time came with financial benefits. Marriage is not social, it's religious. Wrong! Marriage is contract with the state, religious is only a middle man It did not start out that way buddy, states didn't exist in ancient times, so no that's not what marriage started out as It still changed and no the church didn't have anything to do with marriage in the beginning. The roots of marriage started long before the Church.

Why not have a little respect for the union that brought them to this world? the heterosexual union? Again who made that a rule?
yeah i know respect is not a rule anywhere, you know that don't you? but you ARE AWARE people are born out of a NON HOMOEXUAL union right?why you had to comment on that I'll never get lol Why did I comment on that because I want to know who made the rules? But what about heterosexuals that don't want kids?

BTW no one is BORN gay, until you find a chemical or genetical proof you CANNOT CLAIM you were born that way, I know of many who are former homosexuals. Google it you'll see. Several in my church too. There is evidence that people are born gay and there is evidence of people "converting" to be heterosexuals, but there is also evidence stating that those same people have depression as well often secretly still engage in homosexual behavior. When you can bring me scientific evidence and a homexexual gene, then I'll believe that
There is no definitive prof, but there are links, such as when twins are born and one is gay there is 75% chance of the other twin being gay as well it's found that the more children a mother has the higher chance of one being gay, I find that interesting if genetics have nothing to do with it. Now to add to that, there has been found several animals in nature do partake in homosexual actives, these animals include, but not limited to, Dauphins, cats, lions, dogs, ducks, whales, monkeys, and deers.
 

ioukta

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What the heck did you smoke man?

I said it was the first book that instituted marriage, you're going on about religion, whatever man you're laughable lol

Are you trying to tell me that marriage was invented by the State? I hope not. (yeah i'm trying to use simple words here like invented)

It was "invented" by religious folx that had the revelation of God and then twisted by the state.

Where you see that i said poeple should follow the bible i don't know, what exactly you know about that "God of mine" i have no clue, all you're doing is repeating whatever people who cannot stand religion use, that's not my problem buddy lol

Let's see if you get that : If harry potter first appeared in J K Rowling books, and if anyone writes AFTER that a book using the Character Harry Potter and is not JK Rowling, and writes it with no permission and makes him do things that are contrary to what the original Harry potter would do then that 2nd Harry potter is a fake now wouldn't you say?
So if the Bible is the first to mention marriage, then anything that is contrary to what the original stated is fake.

U ask why if you're sinning didn't God smite you down, well did you see Him smite anyone down lately? does that mean that murder lying or stealing is not a sin BECAUSE He didn't smite anyone down? you have a weird logic lol

You say God or Jesus target a few to hate? where did you see my God hates anyone?

It's not because you don't get the bible that it's bad for you

There is no definite prrof that's all i need to hear thank you very much, 75% is no 100%, it's not a fact kthxbai
 

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@ioukta :
Just to let you remember, since Napoleon, the State and the Church are both different entities. both are now considered two different things, or else why did they dissociate it ? they should have kept the State and religion as a same and unique entities if they didn't see anything different.
You can marry at the town office and not at the church if you want only the "State" connotation marriage instead of the biblical one.

I understand that people have their own religious belief, and I agree and tolerate that religious means man and woman only.
Atheist people can marry to Town's office, that doesn't mean they are not officially married just because they don't believe in a "union fellowship" God.
you understand that State marriage and Religious one don't have to have the same purpose ? otherwise a marriage to the church would be enough to be recognized by the State.


About the PACS, I guess they don't have ALL the same rights. (about kids and parental authority; well that's what I read few pages ago. I didn't do any research yet).


And last, the Marriage definition in the French dictionary state "union between a man and a woman".
It will have to change when/if they allow homosexual "State"(not religious) marriage.
And if they change the law, I guess I'll have a lot of paper to do to people
laugh.gif
, doing new ID card, passport, and many other official paper. All is already ready, as we can write "epoux" instead of "épouse" on ID cards, we just need the new political (not religious) decision.


It's now up to the politics to decide if/when they are ready.
If it's not under Sarkozy government, it could be under another one, with another point of view, as the judges decided that it wasn't to the law to decide.
 

ioukta

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yes i'd rather be done with it, i just don't appreciate mini comments to attack my post sentence after sentence by naming imaginary "rules" and stating facts taht do'nt exist.

well I'm glad there's both views on this forum.

And just to defend my country again WE HAVE PACS !!! lol which is more than what the countries who don't accept gay marriages have. So thank you very much lol (well about kids i guess guys will have less luck since they can't bear them themselves, lesbians have the advantage of being able to have kids while being homosexual, tough luck lol)

how i see it atheists "borrowed" marriage and made it their own introducing it as a state affair. But that's not how it started out. that's my only point, how it STARTED. adding things that don't contradict it is ok like adding financial benefits, and a social status, no problem with that, but contradiction like the people involved, that's where we draw the line. In the end que sera sera, but i better not hear no complaining in the streets when not everybody recognizes the union lol if it passes we have a right to our own opinion which is that they are not really married lol
We'll see how far it all goes...
 

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QUOTE(Leviticus 18:22) said:
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.
QUOTE(Genesis 19:22-25)[...]22
"Hurry, escape there! I cannot do anything until you arrive there." That is why the town is called Zoar.
23
The sun was just rising over the earth as Lot arrived in Zoar;
24
at the same time the LORD rained down sulphurous fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah (from the LORD out of heaven).
25
6 He overthrew those cities and the whole Plain, together with the inhabitants of the cities and the produce of the soil.

sorry, ioukta, but your God hates us.
 

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ioukta said:
how i see it atheists "borrowed" marriage and made it their own introducing it as a state affair. But that's not how it started out. that's my only point, how it STARTED. adding things that don't contradict it is ok like adding financial benefits, and a social status, no problem with that, but contradiction like the people involved, that's where we draw the line. In the end que sera sera, but i better not hear no complaining in the streets when not everybody recognizes the union lol if it passes we have a right to our own opinion which is that they are not really married lol
We'll see how far it all goes...
I totally agree.
Not everybody will be as open minded. It could give bad tensions in many places, even for things of everyday.
Like I said, I do identity papers, if it's accepted we will have a lot of people wanting to change their papers. And the employees could be against that decision, but he/she will have to do it nevertheless. it's not a direct aggression, but what the employee feel could be resent by people as an aggression.
Maybe (French) people are still to conservatives to their cultural habits (I don't remember the good word, even in french).
 

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A Gay Little Catboy said:
ioukta said:
Are you trying to tell me that marriage was invented by the State? I hope not. (yeah i'm trying to use simple words here like invented) Marriage can be traced back long before written languages. Which means it pre-dates must fully established religions.
Marriage began with the first humans. That's recorded. It predates any other religions fabricated by humans, though, yes.

It was "invented" by religious folx and then twisted by the state. It was not invented by the church if it predates the churches
True, it wasn't invented by the churches.

Let's see if you get that : If harry potter first appeared in J K Rowling books, and if anyone writes AFTER that a book using the Character Harry Potter and is not JK Rowling, and writes it with no permission and makes him do things that are contrary to what the original Harry potter would do then that 2nd Harry potter is a fake now wouldn't you say?
So if the Bible is the first to mention marriage, then anything that is contrary to what the original stated is fake. The Bible is not the first to mention marriage so that argument is invalid It mentions the first marriage; what other book was first?

U ask why if you're sinning didn't God smite you down, well did you see Him smite anyone down lately? does that mean that murder lying or stealing is not a sin BECAUSE He didn't smite anyone down? you have a weird logic lol To be correct I do see how God smites them. Interestingly enough I find that those who suffer with what they are done is what I would conciser smiting. If something bad happens to someone, that doesn't mean it's God that causes it.

You say God or Jesus target a few to hate? where did you see my God hates anyone? Several versus in the Bible really He doesn't hate the person, only their conduct.
 

gumbyscout

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ProtoKun7 said:
A Gay Little Catboy said:
ioukta said:
Are you trying to tell me that marriage was invented by the State? I hope not. (yeah i'm trying to use simple words here like invented) Marriage can be traced back long before written languages. Which means it pre-dates must fully established religions.
Marriage began with the first humans. That's recorded. It predates any other religions fabricated by humans, though, yes.

It was "invented" by religious folx and then twisted by the state. It was not invented by the church if it predates the churches
True, it wasn't invented by the churches.

Let's see if you get that : If harry potter first appeared in J K Rowling books, and if anyone writes AFTER that a book using the Character Harry Potter and is not JK Rowling, and writes it with no permission and makes him do things that are contrary to what the original Harry potter would do then that 2nd Harry potter is a fake now wouldn't you say?
So if the Bible is the first to mention marriage, then anything that is contrary to what the original stated is fake. The Bible is not the first to mention marriage so that argument is invalid It mentions the first marriage; what other book was first?

U ask why if you're sinning didn't God smite you down, well did you see Him smite anyone down lately? does that mean that murder lying or stealing is not a sin BECAUSE He didn't smite anyone down? you have a weird logic lol To be correct I do see how God smites them. Interestingly enough I find that those who suffer with what they are done is what I would conciser smiting. If something bad happens to someone, that doesn't mean it's God that causes it.

You say God or Jesus target a few to hate? where did you see my God hates anyone? Several versus in the Bible really He doesn't hate the person, only their conduct.
I'm just going to say, that the bible wasn't the first work of literature to mention marriage. Gilgamesh is MUCH, MUCH older than the bible and it mentions marriage.
 

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