Gaming My XBX1X came this morning but is this normal

[Pickle_Rick]

thats what im starting to think, the discs are ignored and your downloading the entire game, we know how lazy MS are, theyll think it be easier to download the game with updates already applies so the console itself only has one task.... install entire game.

but if thats the case then its a piss take because not only eating your hdd space but its wasting your bandwidth, time.

and fyi

Quatum Break is now @99%........ started YESTERDAY!!!!

Lazy? It's because the disc only has the regular assets. It needs the 4k assets. How else would it get something not on the disc? (There is an option to prioritize the disc for installing though.)

 

[Spider_Man]

Lazy? It's because the disc only has the regular assets. It needs the 4k assets. How else would it get something not on the disc? (There is an option to prioritize the disc for installing though.)

erm we are talking about the base game files (on disc)..... install off disc.

4K update files, download/install.

even when it comes to 360 games, its not simply downloading a patch to allow it to run, your downloading the entire game.

so really what the XBX is, is acting as if it was a digital only console but you buy discs to tell the console to download the game rather than install off disc.

 

[Pickle_Rick]

erm we are talking about the base game files (on disc)..... install off disc.

4K update files, download/install.

even when it comes to 360 games, its not simply downloading a patch to allow it to run, your downloading the entire game.

so really what the XBX is, is acting as if it was a digital only console but you buy discs to tell the console to download the game rather than install off disc.

I said there is a way to make it install from the disc. Go into settings, click "go offline" in the network settings, and install the game from the disc. (I'm pretty sure there's an option to make it install from the disc even while you're online too. I don't need to do that.) You'll still need to update the game before you can start it though. (You can play it offline without updating though.) The reason it's done for 360/OG Xbox games is because the emulator is configured per game with unique tweaks.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

erm we are talking about the base game files (on disc)..... install off disc.

4K update files, download/install.

even when it comes to 360 games, its not simply downloading a patch to allow it to run, your downloading the entire game.

so really what the XBX is, is acting as if it was a digital only console but you buy discs to tell the console to download the game rather than install off disc.

Well you have to consider: Those 4K textures and assets are going to be replacing the things already on your disc, so what's the point in installing those from the disc if they're just gonna be overwritten with the downloaded ones? I think that's why it's downloading most of the game.

 

[xXDungeon_CrawlerXx]

Sheeitttt, 100+GB, wow. No worries about when new games will be coming out if they take all day to download.

I guess I'll get XX next year.

 

[Deleted User]

if the game has the 4K update, but im getting the impression that the XBX is downloading the game - updates rather than installing the required filed off disc then downloading updates.

i fail to grasp how one game can have a 100GB update when i doubt the 4K update is all the textures remade, its just altering the graphic engine settings as would a pc.... even saying that when you run the game and it first installs it states do not turn off your PC...... erm its an XBX not a PC so clearly this update for Quantum Break has downloaded the PC game.

because the 4k textures are of such size, that literately it becomes at least 50gb. Not only that but we are talking consoles, which don't have pc level specs. So some of those 4k textures have to be uncompressed so the console doesn't shit itself. And actually MS is doing a favor. As discs get read over and over, they eventually get scratched, which then results in it eventually unreadable. It's a compromise. Do I agree they should be this size? No.

 

[Pickle_Rick]

Well you have to consider: Those 4K textures and assets are going to be replacing the things already on your disc, so what's the point in installing those from the disc if they're just gonna be overwritten with the downloaded ones? I think that's why it's downloading most of the game.

This is true. If the update replaces a bunch of data it'll just download the entire latest version. If it's a small update it'll install off the disc first.

because the 4k textures are of such size, that literately it becomes at least 50gb. Not only that but we are talking consoles, which don't have pc level specs. So some of those 4k textures have to be uncompressed so the console doesn't shit itself. And actually MS is doing a favor. As discs get read over and over, they eventually get scratched, which then results in it eventually unreadable. It's a compromise. Do I agree they should be this size? No.

You forgot the dolby atmos mastered audio too. The disc only comes with standard surround sound. That's extra data there. (and some games have 4k cutscene updates too) This will get better soon when games are designed with XB1X support out of the box.

 

[Spider_Man]

because the 4k textures are of such size, that literately it becomes at least 50gb. Not only that but we are talking consoles, which don't have pc level specs. So some of those 4k textures have to be uncompressed so the console doesn't shit itself. And actually MS is doing a favor. As discs get read over and over, they eventually get scratched, which then results in it eventually unreadable. It's a compromise. Do I agree they should be this size? No.

dude your not downloading the textures again, if this is your claim then the textures are crap.

you do know running in 4k actually has nothing to do with textures, its the output resolution and its the same xbx1 game that was running at 1080p but fixed to run at 4k instead.

i actually do beleive on the XBX1 that your "updates" been so large is that you are forcing to download the full game rather than install off its disc.

eitherway im done with the xbx1 for now, not impressed with how short gears4 and i question if its been worth sat watching it download the 103gb update for what was a very short game.

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Well you have to consider: Those 4K textures and assets are going to be replacing the things already on your disc, so what's the point in installing those from the disc if they're just gonna be overwritten with the downloaded ones? I think that's why it's downloading most of the game.

and again why are people assuming that MS are physcially recreating the textures..... please actually sit and look at said textures and tell me whats been recreated?

again they havent its just a tweak to its graphic engine.

please refer to emulation how they run at higher resolutions than the actual console to bring better visuals, in some cases even 4k and see the major differences from that of the console.

these textures have not been recreated, and neither have ms or other game studios.

do you even know how long it would take to physcially recreate an entire games textures and to release for free, would not be worth the time.

so again, like a pc, its just a graphic engine tweak.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

and again why are people assuming that MS are physcially recreating the textures..... please actually sit and look at said textures and tell me whats been recreated?

again they havent its just a tweak to its graphic engine.

please refer to emulation how they run at higher resolutions than the actual console to bring better visuals, in some cases even 4k and see the major differences from that of the console.

these textures have not been recreated, and neither have ms or other game studios.

do you even know how long it would take to physcially recreate an entire games textures and to release for free, would not be worth the time.

so again, like a pc, its just a graphic engine tweak.

facepalm

The textures are created at a high resolution first during production, and then decreased in resolution to be optimized for the target hardware. They don't need to recreate textures, they already have high quality ones ready that they download to Xbox One X systems and swap with the older, lower resolution ones. Many of these games, like Rise of the Tomb Raider and Shadow of War, are on PC where you can see the higher resolution textures already if you want proof of that. There's a reason that Xbox One X Enhanced titles are 100+ GBs and much larger than their regular versions. If it was simply just upscaling the graphics through the engine, then the patches would not take up dozens of gigs a pop.

When Microsoft says "4K Textures," they mean higher resolution textures that look better on a 4K display where you can appreciate the greater detail. Maybe you should do a little research first?

 

[Spider_Man]

facepalm

The textures are created at a high resolution first during production, and then decreased in resolution to be optimized for the target hardware. They don't need to recreate textures, they already have high quality ones ready that they download to Xbox One X systems and swap with the older, lower resolution ones. Many of these games, like Rise of the Tomb Raider and Shadow of War, are on PC where you can see the higher resolution textures already if you want proof of that. There's a reason that Xbox One X Enhanced titles are 100+ GBs and much larger than their regular versions. If it was simply just upscaling the graphics through the engine, then the patches would not take up dozens of gigs a pop.

When Microsoft says "4K Textures," they mean higher resolution textures that look better on a 4K display where you can appreciate the greater detail. Maybe you should do a little research first?

exactly what i said, the textures remain the same as origionally created on the disc, its the graphic engine that sets the texture quality.

this doesnt mean they have recreated them or that its any bigger.

the point is that this data is on the game disc, its not data you are redownloading, like on a PC you install said game, depending on hardware you set the texture quality, model quality, resolution.

this is no different, the xbx1x is doing exactly the same as a PC would but its downloading the patch to the graphic engine to set the game to run at higher settings.

again just like fecking emulation does, and it does not require over 100GB of data.

the data on the disc is the same data used, if you care to actually play gears4 in 4k, then come back claiming its textures are remade or better quality because dude alot of the texutres are blurred and pixelated as fuck.

please dont be fooled into thinking the XBX1x is actually doing something great, its just acting like a PC.

but problem is, your not actually using your game disc that youve paid £40 for, the second you insert MS is forcing you to download the game and your disc is just a key to say you own the game.

and finaly MS never said 4K textures, its 4K resolution...... research pal because 4K doesnt mean textures it means visual output resolution, again EMULATION, take DOLPHIN you can play WINDWAKER that looks miles better in 4K using its default textures.

that is what the xBX1X is doing.

 

[Paccc]

I was under the impression that both the ps4 and xbox one don't read data off the disc at all. All disc content is read from the HDD.

You can enable 4k downloads separately even if you don't need it to prepare the games on an external HD before you upgrade to xbox one x : https://support.xbox.com/en-US/games/game-setup/download-4k-game-content
That said a stupid developer could force the same content to everyone, but there is now support to make it optional.

Come to think of it, Netflix can be 4k on One S so it should be possible for Quantum Break to stream/download 4k episodes already on the One S. Once again depending on the developers...

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the textures remain the same as origionally created on the disc, its the graphic engine that sets the texture quality.
this doesnt mean they have recreated them or that its any bigger.

Actually, replacing textures (or fixing the engine/emulator to resample them for higher accuracy in ie. fallout 3) is one of the simpler wins -
it will utilize the increased graphics memory. But if it's an old game it's of course hard to motivate getting a team together to make new textures, even if that's a big part of PC modding scene.

The part needing raw power is increasing resolution and rendering all those pixels, combined with extending rendering range in games to improve details.

the textures remain the same as origionally created on the disc, its the graphic engine that sets the texture quality.
but problem is, your not actually using your game disc that youve paid £40 for, the second you insert MS is forcing you to download the game and your disc is just a key to say you own the game.

Even so, you need to go triple layer or more to get in 100 GB on a bluray disc. If the game was made with 4k from start it would of course be great if those assets could be on the disc, but I guess physical is being phased out in any case.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

exactly what i said, the textures remain the same as origionally created on the disc, its the graphic engine that sets the texture quality.

this doesnt mean they have recreated them or that its any bigger.

the point is that this data is on the game disc, its not data you are redownloading, like on a PC you install said game, depending on hardware you set the texture quality, model quality, resolution.

this is no different, the xbx1x is doing exactly the same as a PC would but its downloading the patch to the graphic engine to set the game to run at higher settings.

again just like fecking emulation does, and it does not require over 100GB of data.

the data on the disc is the same data used, if you care to actually play gears4 in 4k, then come back claiming its textures are remade or better quality because dude alot of the texutres are blurred and pixelated as fuck.

please dont be fooled into thinking the XBX1x is actually doing something great, its just acting like a PC.

but problem is, your not actually using your game disc that youve paid £40 for, the second you insert MS is forcing you to download the game and your disc is just a key to say you own the game.

and finaly MS never said 4K textures, its 4K resolution...... research pal because 4K doesnt mean textures it means visual output resolution, again EMULATION, take DOLPHIN you can play WINDWAKER that looks miles better in 4K using its default textures.

that is what the xBX1X is doing.

Not at all. Again, you seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding as to what this "4K Patch" does. The textures on the game disc are lower resolution, because they need to work on a base Xbox One. No point in putting high-resolution textures on a base Xbox One if it can't handle it. So when you go to Xbox One X, you have the option of downloading the higher-quality textures the game studio originally created because the Xbox One X can handle them.

What you do in emulation is upscale. If the game is simply upscaling, then why in the world is the Xbox One X Enhanced installs dozens of gigabytes larger in size than the base Xbox One installs? Upscaling takes up no extra storage space, you just tell the engine to push a higher resolution like on PC. Therefore, it's safe to assume that the increased file size is from higher-resolution textures. And again, the game studio does not need to "remake" textures because they already created high-resolution textures as they were making the game and simply downsampled them for the base Xbox One hardware. All they have to do is take their original high-rez assets and throw that in for the Xbox One X patch.

"4K patch" is a name. The "4k patch" on Xbox One X lets the game run at a higher resolution while also installing higher quality assets. Because these assets replace the lower-quality ones on the game disc, there's no need to install the game disc files because they'll be overwritten anyways. Do you understand now? It's not at all just simple upscaling like you'd do on PC. Let me reiterate that -- "4k patch" is just a name. Not all textures are replaced in all games, and not all of them are of 4k resolution. They are just a higher quality texture than the base Xbox One ones.

Literally, you just need to watch any graphics comparison of Xbox One X with other systems to see that the visuals are upgraded much more than just resolution. Here's one for your convenience:

 

[sarkwalvein]

On the one hand, I have to say that somewhere there was an option when I fitst got my old XB1S to install from the Internet, and thus my games took longer to install. I changed that somehow and things started installing faster, from disc. I don't remember much about it, but if you just disconnect it from the Internet you will get the same result.

On the other hand you will still have to download the patch including the new reworked higher resolution 4k textures, that probably take up 4 times more disk space than the older textures.

All this said, it has been clearly stated once and again that 4k patches include reworked textures at higher resolutions, so if you have some confusion regarding this just take a look at some old article or one of the many Digital Foundry videos on this topic.

 

[dontay0100]

i am a little baffled also that the XBX1X comes with a 1TB HDD but a lot of it has already been taken by the OS, after installing GOW4 i have approx 600GB left.

I dont understand why this update is 100GB when textures do not look like theyve been recreated, so for a graphic engine update to output in 4k rather than 1080p is ???, aparently this update was only 15GB, so why is the total install 103GB.

Its stupid because it downloaded 103GB so whats the data on disc for?

And why cant it simply install the large data to the HDD for faster loading and work in conjunction with the disc to save HDD space.

This is an error that has occurred to me as well, It was actually for the The Evil Within, when I inserted the disc, it said downloading 43GB, and of course I knew that the update for this game let alone the install wasn't that big.. Just cancelled the install, and reinserted the disc, it worked right after that..

 

[Spider_Man]

Not at all. Again, you seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding as to what this "4K Patch" does. The textures on the game disc are lower resolution, because they need to work on a base Xbox One. No point in putting high-resolution textures on a base Xbox One if it can't handle it. So when you go to Xbox One X, you have the option of downloading the higher-quality textures the game studio originally created because the Xbox One X can handle them.

What you do in emulation is upscale. If the game is simply upscaling, then why in the world is the Xbox One X Enhanced installs dozens of gigabytes larger in size than the base Xbox One installs? Upscaling takes up no extra storage space, you just tell the engine to push a higher resolution like on PC. Therefore, it's safe to assume that the increased file size is from higher-resolution textures. And again, the game studio does not need to "remake" textures because they already created high-resolution textures as they were making the game and simply downsampled them for the base Xbox One hardware. All they have to do is take their original high-rez assets and throw that in for the Xbox One X patch.

"4K patch" is a name. The "4k patch" on Xbox One X lets the game run at a higher resolution while also installing higher quality assets. Because these assets replace the lower-quality ones on the game disc, there's no need to install the game disc files because they'll be overwritten anyways. Do you understand now? It's not at all just simple upscaling like you'd do on PC. Let me reiterate that -- "4k patch" is just a name. Not all textures are replaced in all games, and not all of them are of 4k resolution. They are just a higher quality texture than the base Xbox One ones.

Literally, you just need to watch any graphics comparison of Xbox One X with other systems to see that the visuals are upgraded much more than just resolution. Here's one for your convenience:

dude that is where the graphic engine kicks in, seriously you come across as educated then sound retarded.

Gears4 has not had its textures remade, if youve actually played the game youll know its the default textures, the 4k patch is just a tweak to the graphic engine to run at higher settings, same as a PC would.

 

[sarkwalvein]

dude that is where the graphic engine kicks in, seriously you come across as educated then sound retarded.

Gears4 has not had its textures remade, if youve actually played the game youll know its the default textures, the 4k patch is just a tweak to the graphic engine to run at higher settings, same as a PC would.

I don't know about Gears4, as I never followed that game much. Perhaps you are right on that one.
I only want to make it clear that most games' 4k patches include higher resolution textures in their download.
That is what most of the size of the 4k patches amounts to.

 

[Spider_Man]

On the one hand, I have to say that somewhere there was an option when I fitst got my old XB1S to install from the Internet, and thus my games took longer to install. I changed that somehow and things started installing faster, from disc. I don't remember much about it, but if you just disconnect it from the Internet you will get the same result.

On the other hand you will still have to download the patch including the new reworked higher resolution 4k textures, that probably take up 4 times more disk space than the older textures.

All this said, it has been clearly stated once and again that 4k patches include reworked textures at higher resolutions, so if you have some confusion regarding this just take a look at some old article or one of the many Digital Foundry videos on this topic.

i have tried finding this setting and cant see it.

when i insert a disc it says installing data, then says theres an update to install then all i see is one download and to me looks like its the game+update in one.

guy ive been quoting sounds like an xboner fanboy who is trying to defend or claim the console isnt downloading the entire game, thus rendering the disc useless.

in no way is gears 4 4k update 100gb, at no point has its textures been remade, its just a graphic update as would a pc when you change settings higher, which you cant on a console its benchmarked.

if the textures have been remade then fuck me theyre fucking shit.

 

[sarkwalvein]

i have tried finding this setting and cant see it.

when i insert a disc it says installing data, then says theres an update to install then all i see is one download and to me looks like its the game+update in one.

guy ive been quoting sounds like an xboner fanboy who is trying to defend or claim the console isnt downloading the entire game, thus rendering the disc useless.

in no way is gears 4 4k update 100gb, at no point has its textures been remade, its just a graphic update as would a pc when you change settings higher, which you cant on a console its benchmarked.

if the textures have been remade then fuck me theyre fucking shit.

Hmmm... Perhaps it is actually redownloading the whole game for 4K. No idea.
You can still possibly install the standard non-4k version from the disk if you disable internet and restart installation.

As for the setting, I don't remember that well, perhaps I only rebooted the system, it was long ago.

What I remember is cursing because the thing was installing slow as fuck, then I noticed it was installing from the Internet instead of the disk, I did something, and then it started installing from the disk.

But it was long ago and with a normal game (there were no 4K games back then), so it may be a completely different story with 4k patches.

 

[Spider_Man]

I don't know about Gears4, as I never followed that game much. Perhaps you are right on that one.
I only want to make it clear that most games' 4k patches include higher resolution textures in their download.
That is what most of the size of the 4k patches amounts to.

i think that would be hard to monitor when the xbx1x to me looks like its identical to the xbx, i mean even in the console settings it says its an xbxone, not xbxonex.

i think the servers detect your using an xbx1x and your updates are just graphic engine updates, i cant see a dev releasing two versions of same game.

like on a pc, it has its default textures and the game engine sets the texture quality.

its not like a dev releasing a PS3 game (example TR) then releasing a different version for PS4 (TR Definitive Edition), the XBX1 will be the same game, same textures, but the disc version will have its engine benchmarked for launch XBX1 units, the update will increase these settings for XBX1X units.

But the problem what MS are doing is, seem to be forcing users to digitally download the game and update rather than install game off disc then the 4k update.

it so far has bored the crap out of me having to watch it download 103GB for Gears 4 which i completed within a week and its story was rather short and crap..... was it even worth the download.

At the minute im now doing Quantum Brake, which was a 83GB download, i cant see that having all its textures remade, it looks another game with a graphic engine tweak and been forced to download the game digitally and use the disc to say i own it.

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Hmmm... Perhaps it is actually redownloading the whole game for 4K. No idea.
You can still possibly install the standard non-4k version from the disk if you disable internet and restart installation.

As for the setting, I don't remember that well, perhaps I only rebooted the system, it was long ago.

What I remember is cursing because the thing was installing slow as fuck, then I noticed it was installing from the Internet instead of the disk, I did something, and then it started installing from the disk.

But it was long ago and with a normal game (there were no 4K games back then), so it may be a completely different story with 4k patches.

this was the exact reason why i got rid of the xbxone after a few months when it first launched.

the power options are a total fuck fest, who the fuck has the right to tell you to:
A) have a console that turns on instantly but remains in standby and auto downloads all updates
B) have a console that takes longer to turn on but remains off and updates are optional

its a fucking console, you turn the cunt on, the cunt should turn on, not sit watching a 30 second green screen with the xbx logo.

then be sat hours on end watching a forced update to download off ms's shitty servers.

the PS4 does a far better job, you turn the console on, the cunt turns on, if you insert a game, minus the actual installation you can instantly play a game, not be forced to sit and watch a download screen all day.

worse game ive ever had to install on the PS4 was EA's shitty Star Wars Battlefront, which was deleted within 10 minutes of playing the offline multiplayer crap.

Between both consoles, i know the PS4 will install games off the disc and download updated in the background
my XBX1x doesnt and the XBX1 didnt either at launch.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

dude that is where the graphic engine kicks in, seriously you come across as educated then sound retarded.

Gears4 has not had its textures remade, if youve actually played the game youll know its the default textures, the 4k patch is just a tweak to the graphic engine to run at higher settings, same as a PC would.

And what you don't seem to understand is that Xbox One X patches are dozens of gigabytes in size, which only happens if there is large amounts of texture files being downloaded. There are dozens of Xbox One X enhanced games yet you seem oddly fixated on Gears to try and prove a point that's inconsistent with observable fact?

Higher quality textures are not present by default on Xbox One discs. It's not like PC where the game has high quality assets packaged with it. That is why the patches are dozens of GBs -- because it's downloading higher quality textures, likely the ones you'll find on PC. I can't speak on Gears specifically, but I can on plenty other titles like Rise of the Tomb Raider, and Gears is likely no different. Go watch any Digital Foundry video or even do a smidgen of research into what's downloaded on Xbox One X's "4k patches."