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Obama announces he supports same-sex marriage

smile72

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No offence to anyone gay here, but I don't see anything natural in gay marriage.

You don't get to have children of your own, so it's basically just pointless.
To be fair, then women who can't get pregnant and men who are infertile are useless, and also shouldn't be allowed to marry either, they can't procreate, what purpose does their marriage serve?

That's something that naturally happened, homosexuality isn't natural. You're not getting my point here.
Your original point was clearly "they can't have children, therefore it's not natural".
Now you're backpedaling and reverting to an even stupider argument of "homosexuality isn't natural/is a choice".

Please don't imply that smile72 isn't getting your point, because he did.

Actually he didn't, what I've been trying to say is when a guy marries another guy, they don't get anything out of their marriage as in having children, forming a family etc.... They only get satisfaction out of it.

And if you got anything nicer to say, I'm welcome to comment on it, so let's stop the tough Internet acting on the Internet.
Because biologically, you don't get anything out of gay marriage.
Whatever happened to happiness and love? Marriage is not about just having children.
I get what you are saying, it's just a flimsy weak argument.

I understand that, but let's give it a deep thinking... Do you get to have children? Do you guys form a family that you care about? I know that you'll obviously look after each other.

Not trying to be offensive here, it's just my opinion.
Yes, gays can form a family by adopting children or using a surrogate.
 
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exangel

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Politics controlling the taxation or recognition of a relationship is the opposite of natural, so why is there any need to define marriage as requiring any conceivable notion of what's natural?

And I was going to cite a species of monkey that participates in bisexual partnerships (females procreate with a male but partners for pleasure (literally, for climax) with another female) but I couldn't find the specifics of it. -- but that's where I go about thumb-upping smile72's assertion
 
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No offence to anyone gay here, but I don't see anything natural in gay marriage.

You don't get to have children of your own, so it's basically just pointless.
To be fair, then women who can't get pregnant and men who are infertile are useless, and also shouldn't be allowed to marry either, they can't procreate, what purpose does their marriage serve?

That's something that naturally happened, homosexuality isn't natural. You're not getting my point here.
Your original point was clearly "they can't have children, therefore it's not natural".
Now you're backpedaling and reverting to an even stupider argument of "homosexuality isn't natural/is a choice".

Please don't imply that smile72 isn't getting your point, because he did.

Actually he didn't, what I've been trying to say is when a guy marries another guy, they don't get anything out of their marriage as in having children, forming a family etc.... They only get satisfaction out of it.

And if you got anything nicer to say, I'm welcome to comment on it, so let's stop the tough Internet acting on the Internet.
Because biologically, you don't get anything out of gay marriage.
Whatever happened to happiness and love? Marriage is not about just having children.
I get what you are saying, it's just a flimsy weak argument.

I understand that, but let's give it a deep thinking... Do you get to have children? Do you guys form a family that you care about? I know that you'll obviously look after each other.

Not trying to be offensive here, it's just my opinion.
Yes, gays can form a family by adopting children or using a surrogate.

You just said it! "Adopting children"

Meaning they're not really their own, they're just kids from a different family. Sometimes I get the feeling when you have your own child, it feels like it's your own, you created this human being and you're responsible for it. Same goes for adopting the children, you need to be responsible, but you don't really feel like you've created it and you don't really feel like they're your own.
 

The Catboy

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I understand that, but let's give it a deep thinking... Do you get to have children? Do you guys form a family that you care about? I know that you'll obviously look after each other.

Not trying to be offensive here, it's just my opinion.
I actually don't want kids, even if I were with a women, I still wouldn't want kids. Not everyone on the planet is programmed to want to reproduce. Personally I feel the planet has enough people, me not having kids is doing the world a favor.
Still marriage is personal thing, it's a personal bond between people who love each other enough to want to make a full commitment to other. This relationship should not effect the lives others outside of the two who made this commitment. Saying that a marriage should only be about kids, truly ruins the this "sanctity of marriage" people go on about. Honestly people should even care what people do in their own private lives as long as it's not hurting anyone, who cares?

You just said it! "Adopting children"

Meaning they're not really their own, they're just kids from a different family. Sometimes I get the feeling when you have your own child, it feels like it's your own, you created this human being and you're responsible for it. Same goes for adopting the children, you need to be responsible, but you don't really feel like you've created it and you don't really feel like they're your own.
What's so bad about adoption? There are kids out there who need a family and want a family. Just because a kid wasn't born to you, doesn't make it any less your child
 
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Gahars

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@insidexdeath

How does committing yourself to another human being equate to satisfaction? If homosexuals were only after satisfaction, why bother with the legal hassles of marriage?

Plus, if you see "starting a family" as the only purpose behind marriage, gay couples could form families, too. They could adopt orphaned children and provide them with a caring home environment.
 
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exangel

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Sanctity in a marriage is love, commitment, and willingness to deal with difficult problems. The sacred bond is what the couple finds in each other.
All I really want for this country is for domestic partnerships to be marriage and for marriage to be politically equivalent to domestic partnerships. The definition of marriage from the point of the government's involvement needs only to be for the point of how taxation and living arrangements keep the economy intact. There really shouldn't be such a big deal about it but the political/media machine and the influence of evangelical/conservative republicans is really strong in this country. As Skelletonike said, even in Portugal, where there is a strong Catholic influence on the state, the public voted to let gays marry.

As Clint Eastwood so eloquently put it,
Clint Eastwood said:
"These people who are making a big deal about gay marriage? I don't give a fuck about who wants to get married to anybody else! Why not?! We're making a big deal out of things we shouldn't be making a deal out of ... Just give everybody the chance to have the life they want."

edit:

You just said it! "Adopting children"

Meaning they're not really their own, they're just kids from a different family. Sometimes I get the feeling when you have your own child, it feels like it's your own, you created this human being and you're responsible for it. Same goes for adopting the children, you need to be responsible, but you don't really feel like you've created it and you don't really feel like they're your own.
What a second here, have you ever adopted a child? Can you honestly tell me that spending years nurturing, financially supporting, teaching, and worrying about a child would take a backseat to the fact they aren't actually your biological offspring? I know people who are adopted and their parents are just as committed IF NOT MORE SO to the fact these individuals are their child. Especially those who were adopted because their parents had infertility..
And my uncle has zero custody over a girl who treats him 100% as her father because he was there for her throughout her secondary school when her mother and sister got into trouble with the law -- when she stopped calling him by his name and started simply calling him her father, he told me his life was fulfilled in a way he never expected.
 
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smile72

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No offence to anyone gay here, but I don't see anything natural in gay marriage.

You don't get to have children of your own, so it's basically just pointless.
To be fair, then women who can't get pregnant and men who are infertile are useless, and also shouldn't be allowed to marry either, they can't procreate, what purpose does their marriage serve?

That's something that naturally happened, homosexuality isn't natural. You're not getting my point here.
Your original point was clearly "they can't have children, therefore it's not natural".
Now you're backpedaling and reverting to an even stupider argument of "homosexuality isn't natural/is a choice".

Please don't imply that smile72 isn't getting your point, because he did.

Actually he didn't, what I've been trying to say is when a guy marries another guy, they don't get anything out of their marriage as in having children, forming a family etc.... They only get satisfaction out of it.

And if you got anything nicer to say, I'm welcome to comment on it, so let's stop the tough Internet acting on the Internet.
Because biologically, you don't get anything out of gay marriage.
Whatever happened to happiness and love? Marriage is not about just having children.
I get what you are saying, it's just a flimsy weak argument.

I understand that, but let's give it a deep thinking... Do you get to have children? Do you guys form a family that you care about? I know that you'll obviously look after each other.

Not trying to be offensive here, it's just my opinion.
Yes, gays can form a family by adopting children or using a surrogate.

You just said it! "Adopting children"

Meaning they're not really their own, they're just kids from a different family. Sometimes I get the feeling when you have your own child, it feels like it's your own, you created this human being and you're responsible for it. Same goes for adopting the children, you need to be responsible, but you don't really feel like you've created it and you don't really feel like they're your own.
I don't think you know how ignorant you sound, there are so many children without a family that would want one, they don't care if they are gay or straight it's still their family. They feel the same attachment to the children because they want children, they love them like any other parent. That goes for both gay and straight couples that adopt.
 

Sterling

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Bah, just because homosexuality isn't natural, doesn't mean the government can tell you that you can't marry. Then again, the government has no right in telling you who to marry. The government should have no say on this matter. Period. Marriage is only a really strong bond (any relationship really). I can see nothing but good things from bonding with people. Besides, the Bible is incredibly outdated. Feelings and opinions change vastly over the course of a century, and the Bible is much, much older.

EDIT: I'm still not voting for Obama.
 
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MelodieOctavia

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Whether or not someone "supports" gay marriage...why would you want to put a stop to someone's happiness, just because THEY are doing what YOU don't like? Whatever happened to live and let live? You want to hear it from the Good Book? *sigh* fine.

1 Thessalonians 4:11

New International Version (NIV)
11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you,

Matthew 7:1-5

New International Version (NIV)

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Romans 2:1

New International Version (NIV)

2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

Romans 14:10-13

New International Version (NIV)
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.
 
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tatripp

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Hey Densetsu, how about this one? Gays can't get married because it is not possible for them to get married. Even if the government passes a law that all squares only have three sides, that doesn't make it so.
 

Densetsu

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Hey Densetsu, how about this one? Gays can't get married because it is not possible for them to get married. Even if the government passes a law that all squares only have three sides, that doesn't make it so.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

You didn't say why gay people shouldn't get married. You merely stated a fact that gays can't get married because the government doesn't allow it. What you said is neither an argument for nor against gay marriage.
 

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Hey Densetsu, how about this one? Gays can't get married because it is not possible for them to get married. Even if the government passes a law that all squares only have three sides, that doesn't make it so.

Says who? The church? The Christian church that didn't even exist whent he concept of marriage was invented? Anyway, if we're looking to the Bible for what a marriage should be then we're not exactly going to have 'traditional' marriages, are we? Adam and Eve weren't married and a lot of Gods favourite dudes in the bible had like 200 wives. It baffles me that religions act like they invented or own marriage. Indeed gay marriage was around in Greece before Christianity came along.

Anyway, back in the real world, this article sums up the GOP stance on marriage quite well - especially on how, after deliberately making it a wedge issue when it suited them, they're now trying to sweep it under the carpet and act like it's unfair to even mention it at the moment.

http://www.slate.com..._divisive_.html

As for this argument about how it's just about having children and procreating the species (wow, how romantic), on top of the valid points made about infertile couples if you want to be popping babies out as your numebr one priority monogamous marriage is the worst thing you can do. You can only get one woman pregnant every 9 months. Best to stay single and just sleep with as many people as you can.

I don't think anyone who says they're against marriage equality seriously thinks that in 50 years time people will look back and say they were on the right side of history.
 

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But sooner or later, they will have kids. I've seen people with the same problem saying that they don't plan on having kids as apparently they're not ready for it, but as time passes, they'll have children.

Just because you ran into examples like that, doesn't mean everybody is like that. My older sister is 30, and she's been with her boyfriend for close to ten years now. They're not getting married, and they don't want children. Not everybody wants little shits running around the house and everything. Some people just want to make it officially exclusive because the person they are with make them more than happy. Now, if two people, a guy and a woman can get away with that, why can't two gay people get married to the person that makes them feel more than happy?

Both instances have it where kids won't be in the future. Both are with people they love and are loved back. The only difference is one group has two dongs, while the other has one.
 

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Also, presumably if it's all about procreation, a person who finds out that the love of their life is infertile should go marry someone else instead? You know, because they're doing it for stupid reasons like love rather than flooding the planet with excess people like good little worker bees?

I'm yet to see anything even approaching a coherent argument against gay marriage in this thread, I'm afraid.
 

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But sooner or later, they will have kids. I've seen people with the same problem saying that they don't plan on having kids as apparently they're not ready for it, but as time passes, they'll have children.

Just because you ran into examples like that, doesn't mean everybody is like that. My older sister is 30, and she's been with her boyfriend for close to ten years now. They're not getting married, and they don't want children. Not everybody wants little shits running around the house and everything. Some people just want to make it officially exclusive because the person they are with make them more than happy. Now, if two people, a guy and a woman can get away with that, why can't two gay people get married to the person that makes them feel more than happy?

Both instances have it where kids won't be in the future. Both are with people they love and are loved back. The only difference is one group has two dongs, while the other has one.
I obviously agree that gay marrage is eh-oh-kay, it doesn't particularily matter which genders are involved. If they want to be "married", meaning, make their union legally binding and "on paper", thus taking care of all the iheritence issues, tax issues etc. then hell, they're entitled to - they're not hurting anyone and they love eachother.

What I don't agree is the statement that some couples don't want children, to be precise, I don't like the some part of it. Humans have a natural drive towards procreation, especially women, which kicks in sooner or later. Rarely do people lack this drive or experience it so mellowly that it doesn't lead towards trying for a child, even rarer do two people who don't have this drive meet - it's a one in a million situation. "Some" doesn't exactly cut it, I'd say "a handful" at best.

Also, presumably if it's all about procreation, a person who finds out that the love of their life is infertile should go marry someone else instead?
Adoption. It would be extremely beneficial, so many children are suffering without a mother or a father they could turn to, if a couple can accept that "their child didn't exactly try to rip the mother into two", it should be the default option in this case.
 

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