Obama announces he supports same-sex marriage

[ShadowSoldier]

But sooner or later, they will have kids. I've seen people with the same problem saying that they don't plan on having kids as apparently they're not ready for it, but as time passes, they'll have children.

Just because you ran into examples like that, doesn't mean everybody is like that. My older sister is 30, and she's been with her boyfriend for close to ten years now. They're not getting married, and they don't want children. Not everybody wants little shits running around the house and everything. Some people just want to make it officially exclusive because the person they are with make them more than happy. Now, if two people, a guy and a woman can get away with that, why can't two gay people get married to the person that makes them feel more than happy?

Both instances have it where kids won't be in the future. Both are with people they love and are loved back. The only difference is one group has two dongs, while the other has one.

I obviously agree that gay marrage is eh-oh-kay, it doesn't particularily matter which genders are involved. If they want to be "married", meaning, make their union legally binding and "on paper", thus taking care of all the iheritence issues, tax issues etc. then hell, they're entitled to - they're not hurting anyone and they love eachother.

What I don't agree is the statement that some couples don't want children, to be precise, I don't like the some part of it. Humans have a natural drive towards procreation, especially women, which kicks in sooner or later. Rarely do people lack this drive or experience it so mellowly that it doesn't lead towards trying for a child, even rarer do two people who don't have this drive meet - it's a one in a million situation. "Some" doesn't exactly cut it, I'd say "a handful" at best.

Well you can count my older sister in that handful then, same with her BF. They don't want children at all. They don't mind them, they just dont want any to call their own.

 

[Foxi4]

Well you can count my older sister in that handful then, same with her BF. They don't want children at all. They don't mind them, they just dont want any to call their own.

Oh, sure - I'm not saying "you're wrong", that would be stupid (yes, I'm writing this before someone says "No, your sister is lying to you!" or something like that), it's your sister - you know her better. What I meant was that it's a extremely small minority of people - for most procreation's not even a choice per say, it's just something they start feeling that they should do at some point in their life and feel uneasy and incomplete if they don't.

 

[Alaude]

But sooner or later, they will have kids. I've seen people with the same problem saying that they don't plan on having kids as apparently they're not ready for it, but as time passes, they'll have children.

Just because you ran into examples like that, doesn't mean everybody is like that. My older sister is 30, and she's been with her boyfriend for close to ten years now. They're not getting married, and they don't want children. Not everybody wants little shits running around the house and everything. Some people just want to make it officially exclusive because the person they are with make them more than happy. Now, if two people, a guy and a woman can get away with that, why can't two gay people get married to the person that makes them feel more than happy?

Both instances have it where kids won't be in the future. Both are with people they love and are loved back. The only difference is one group has two dongs, while the other has one.

I obviously agree that gay marrage is eh-oh-kay, it doesn't particularily matter which genders are involved. If they want to be "married", meaning, make their union legally binding and "on paper", thus taking care of all the iheritence issues, tax issues etc. then hell, they're entitled to - they're not hurting anyone and they love eachother.

What I don't agree is the statement that some couples don't want children, to be precise, I don't like the some part of it. Humans have a natural drive towards procreation, especially women, which kicks in sooner or later. Rarely do people lack this drive or experience it so mellowly that it doesn't lead towards trying for a child, even rarer do two people who don't have this drive meet - it's a one in a million situation. "Some" doesn't exactly cut it, I'd say "a handful" at best.

Well you can count my older sister in that handful then, same with her BF. They don't want children at all. They don't mind them, they just dont want any to call their own.

Thats what all new couples feel but then as time goes by they will change their mind i guarantee it

 

[BlueStar]

[

Also, presumably if it's all about procreation, a person who finds out that the love of their life is infertile should go marry someone else instead?

Adoption. It would be extremely beneficial, so many children are suffering without a mother or a father they could turn to, if a couple can accept that "their child didn't exactly try to rip the mother into two", it should be the default option in this case.

Which is exactly what homosexual couples can do.

But I agree with ShadowSoldier, I know plenty of people who aren't interested in having kids. And yes, I sure some of them get the patronising "Oh, you MUST do, you will eventually" but getting your tubes snipped kind of indicates this isn't the case. It's very presumptious to pretend you know what people will feel later.

Do you at least agree that there are people who can't have kids who aren#t bothered enough about it to want fertility treatment or to adopt, but just accept that's the way it is and deal with it? Are they in any way 'less married' or less of a person because they're not selfishly spurting out excess people into an already populated planet?

 

[Sicklyboy]

Oh, hey, another one of these threads.

May as well say what I say in every one of these threads.

--If you're straight and want to get married, get married.
--If you're straight and don't want to get married, don't get married.
--If you're gay and don't want to get married, don't get married.
--If you're gay and want to get married, why the fuck should anyone be allowed to stop you?

I'm pro-same sex marriage. Me and my girlfriend will some day get married and live happily ever after, and if two gay guys or two gay girls want to do the same thing, then for fucks sake they should be allowed to. Me and my girlfriend shouldn't have any special privileges because we're in a heterosexual relationship, and in the same light, a same sex couple shouldn't have any more or any less right than my girlfriend and I do.

We're all human, we all bleed the same color, we all pay taxes, and we all die. That should be all there is to it.

 

[Foxi4]

Thats what all new couples feel but then as time goes by they will change their mind i guarantee it

Except they're not a new couple - they've been together for 10 years (right? I think I read so...). It's entirely possible that their drive just didn't kick in at all, albeit it's quite rare, it's a possibility.

Also, presumably if it's all about procreation, a person who finds out that the love of their life is infertile should go marry someone else instead?

Adoption. It would be extremely beneficial, so many children are suffering without a mother or a father they could turn to, if a couple can accept that "their child didn't exactly try to rip the mother into two", it should be the default option in this case.

Which is exactly what homosexual couples can do.

...and this is where the real discussion starts,

Many people are eh-o-kay with gay marriage, but they're not exactly on-board with gay couples adopting children, for various reasons.

 

[Alaude]

Thats what all new couples feel but then as time goes by they will change their mind i guarantee it

Except they're not a new couple - they've been together for 10 years. It's entirely possible that their drive just didn't kick in at all, albeit it's quite rare, it's a possibility.

I have seen many people like that even when their drive just doesn't kick in, they will regret it in the future when its too late

 

[BlueStar]

And some people are the opposite - Mitt Romney is against gay marriage but thinks gays should have the right to adopt.

I think it's immoral to deny homosexual couples to do either and I think it's inevitable in western society they'll eventually get those rights.

 

[Foxi4]

Do you at least agree that there are people who can't have kids who aren#t bothered enough about it to want fertility treatment or to adopt, but just accept that's the way it is and deal with it? Are they in any way 'less married' or less of a person because they're not selfishly spurting out excess people into an already populated planet?

Of course I do, it would be stupid not to. Getting married is not means towards having children - you can have children without that. Getting married is exchanging vows in a relationship and legalazing it for various benefits, to which they should be entirely entitled to because "why the hell not"?

 

[BlueStar]

Thats what all new couples feel but then as time goes by they will change their mind i guarantee it

Except they're not a new couple - they've been together for 10 years. It's entirely possible that their drive just didn't kick in at all, albeit it's quite rare, it's a possibility.

I have seen many people like that even when their drive just doesn't kick in, they will regret it in the future when its too late

No, not always they won't. They might, however, get sick of busybody little twats pitying them and thinking they're only pretending they're perfectly happy without kids.

 

[Foxi4]

I think it's immoral to deny homosexual couples to do either and I think it's inevitable in western society they'll eventually get those rights.

I often get bashed for my views on adoption, but I can't exactly make an exception from my beliefs just because the issue concerns gays and lesbians. As a strong believer in behaviourism, I can't say I support adoption by gay couples, but I'm perfectly okay with them marrying. That is all, I'd rather not get dragged into a longer discussion on why I think so - it always leads to flamewars anyways.

 

[Alaude]

I think it's immoral to deny homosexual couples to do either and I think it's inevitable in western society they'll eventually get those rights.

I often get bashed for my views on adoption, but I can't exactly make an exception from my beliefs just because the issue concerns gays and lesbians. As a strong believer in behaviourism, I can't say I support adoption by gay couples, but I'm perfectly okay with them marrying. That is all, I'd rather not get dragged into a longer discussion on why I think so - it always leads to flamewars anyways.

I agree with your point. its not that i'm against gay and lesbians couples adopting children but i don't think its appropriate. think about it, the child will not know the essence of having a mother or a father.

 

[BlueStar]

The whole "natrual" thing is a bit daft in general, the 'natural' thing for men to do is to have sex with as many women as possible to give their genes the best chance of being passed on, monogomous heterosexual marriage is a very unnatural constraint.

EDIT FOR ABOVE: If the child grows up with two loving parents, they've got a huge advantage on a massive number of children born to heterosexual couples. Or would it be better for a chidl to live in a care home or be shunted between foster parents than to have a permanent, loving home with parents who are a same-sex couple? If gay people can marry, they have all the rights married couples have, including adoption. People are going to ahve to learn to deal with these things sooner or later.

 

[Sicklyboy]

Thats what all new couples feel but then as time goes by they will change their mind i guarantee it

Except they're not a new couple - they've been together for 10 years. It's entirely possible that their drive just didn't kick in at all, albeit it's quite rare, it's a possibility.

---

 

[Foxi4]

Before people jump other people simply because they're not on-board with gay couples child-rearing, I'd like to add that in my ranking it's still a better deal than raising children in toxic environments like abusive, agressive families, families with extremely radical views, families with a history of drug or alcohol abuse and so on.

Adoption or having children in general is not a right of hetero couples, it's everyone's right. There are simply better and worse environments to do so. I would sooner deny the right to have children to a nazi couple than to a gay one, but the theoretical ideal environment is a male and a female example, loving atmosphere and satisfactory living conditions.

 

[Sicklyboy]

Before people jump other people simply because they're not on-board with gay couples child-rearing, I'd like to add that in my ranking it's still a better deal than raising children in toxic environments like abusive, agressive families, families with extremely radical views, families with a history of drug or alcohol abuse and so on.

Adoption or having children in general is not a right of hetero couples, it's everyone's right. There are simply better and worse environments to do so. I would sooner deny the right to have children to a nazi couple than to a gay one, but the theoretical ideal environment is a male and a female example, loving atmosphere and satisfactory living conditions.

If that was directed towards me, I hope it wasn't coming off that I was trying to put down your opinion.

I do agree that adoption by a same sex couple might not be the ideal environment, but I don't necessarily think it would be a bad or harmful one (emotionally nor physically) either. I think (hope, at least) the kid could grow up knowing that love doesn't necessarily have to mean a man and a woman, and that that kind of a relationship should be okay if that's their thing; that theyothers shouldn't need to feel any sort of societal pressure to feel some way that they don't actually feel.

Granted, that's just my opinion, and everyone is rightfully entitled to their own, and I respect that.

 

[Foxi4]

Oh no, it was not directed at you. You are civilized members. I love you to bits man, Blue also a great person to talk to since he's a learned guy who knows his stuff and isn't one to childishly squabble. You both have my respect, it's just that I know that at some point someone might read those opinions as ambiguous and turn this thread into a flame pit for no reason.

 

[BlueStar]

This guy can talk about gay marriage and adoption with more authority than me (Zach, the second guy - not the low functioning bloke beforehand)

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Well you can count my older sister in that handful then, same with her BF. They don't want children at all. They don't mind them, they just dont want any to call their own.

Oh, sure - I'm not saying "you're wrong", that would be stupid (yes, I'm writing this before someone says "No, your sister is lying to you!" or something like that), it's your sister - you know her better. What I meant was that it's a extremely small minority of people - for most procreation's not even a choice per say, it's just something they start feeling that they should do at some point in their life and feel uneasy and incomplete if they don't.

But as Catboy I think said it, if gay people want to have kids, they can adopt.

 

[smile72]

I think it's immoral to deny homosexual couples to do either and I think it's inevitable in western society they'll eventually get those rights.

I often get bashed for my views on adoption, but I can't exactly make an exception from my beliefs just because the issue concerns gays and lesbians. As a strong believer in behaviourism, I can't say I support adoption by gay couples, but I'm perfectly okay with them marrying. That is all, I'd rather not get dragged into a longer discussion on why I think so - it always leads to flamewars anyways.

I agree with your point. its not that i'm against gay and lesbians couples adopting children but i don't think its appropriate. think about it, the child will not know the essence of having a mother or a father.

That would be the same with single parents.