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Race, Ethnicity, and Nationality? Your thoughts?

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FAST6191

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We appear to be operating on slightly different definitions.

Race. Possibly something of an archaic term, or at least one with a lot of legacy baggage. I did post the pictures around here somewhere of some old book I had for a while covering some of the things, can't find where but they were apparently still on my camera so round 2.
old_book_race_1.JPG old_book_race_2.JPG old_book_race_3.JPG
For as... interesting as the above is it recognises more than black and white. Or if you prefer how do I reconcile a New Zealand aboriginal with west coast Africa. Their common ancestors are on almost geologic times.

Ethnicity
While it seems anything likely called human which is alive today could theoretically have mated with another and produced viable offspring it is far from completely random, and historically it was somewhat less random still. As country borders don't follow such lines (country borders themselves being a historically interesting concept, and quite fluid as well where the concept might have existed for longer) I would say this is more genetic than not. Said country borders may aid in the divergence of it, and historically religion may have done another (still has some effect today, see also some of the Balkans, but nowhere near what it once did). Genetics would then be a component in some of this. Geography (China and India do share a border, however they have some small hills that make visiting a pain), technology (one tends to look at the sizes of US states) and society (good leadership/generals and such) may also have impacted things.

Nationality. Country borders. Though I am less concerned with legal status (even if it is a quick way) as much as traits, identification with aspects of the culture there... basically someone could have one thing but be another, such a thing being commonly seen with those that moved somewhere as a child. Dual nationality, such that it still exists, might also trouble things. Legal status is another thing which could get interesting
For instance
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/eligible-vote-uk-general-election/
The Republic of Ireland is a separate country from the UK, and has been for as long as all but its oldest residents likely remember, but apparently its citizens can still vote in UK elections with about as much effort as someone born and bred in the UK. Never mind how do I consider immigration requirements for somewhere (if one is harder to obtain than the other then that poses some questions).
With that said I can go legal, however I will note there are some incredibly fuzzy edges.

Going further most borders today are more or less "world war 2 ended", "this empire lark is done", "lines on a map, never mind I have never been there and know so very little about it". Even where there was some clue then historically things may have waxed and waned, ebbed and flowed as disease, famine, tech... dictated.

Recently I have been watching videos from the following guy
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1vVNQN-TCy8d3Mb_Owr2Kw/videos?disable_polymer=1
Absolutely fascinating series of videos there. His approaches to such things work well for me.

"Race is not something changeable by the person that belongs to the race. They will most always belong to that race."
Leaving aside debates over other things there are some things (very possibly we will see them within our lifetimes) which look like they might be able to alter genetics of a full grown animal.

In day to day life. My general test of choice is "does it matter if I should meet such a person on the street" and overwhelmingly the latter two do not matter for most pursuits intellectual and ethical, and as such it is going to be tricky to base anything on that and thus very silly should you be aspire towards rationality. Useful visual identifiers at times and anybody trying to shame someone for using them as such had better bring ammo. If I am being a medic I am less likely to assume skin cancer in the case of someone as black as the ace of spades.
Pride is best had in something one had a notable hand in. Assuming you are not a time traveller you probably did not create/guide/mould a race or ethnicity.

"African-American"
Still wish I could find that news clip of some athletics contest where the newscaster asked a black guy from the UK "what is it like growing up as an African American in the UK?".

On related concepts.
The "only the dominant culture* can be ?ist" I see some people float from time to time is utter bollocks of the highest order. Said culture, and possibly institution, may be an aggravating factor in how it is dealt with but for the day to day use it has no impact.
Religion =/= race as far as being able to call someone racist goes. Religion is something one theoretically makes a choice about believing in, or at least I see no evidence one is born with a predisposition for a religion. Feels silly even having to mention that but oh well.

*another term we get to throw into this I guess.

"It's important to speak your own language correctly and to know the history of your own country to avoid making the same mistakes"
That is a concept fraught with difficulty, and that is before you find countries with independence movements, multiple languages and such.

If I am going to do a possibly controversial statement.
Some of these are things you can pick yourself, though there are clearly wrong answers.

Post so song


and comedy video while I am at it
 
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Whole lotta love

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There is no marker. However, you are indefinitely confusing race with ethnicity.

My apologies for not being completely precise.

What is the genetic marker that differentiates a light skinned hispanic (such as a white cuban) to a white person? (such as an italian american)
 
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So the only difference between races is skin pigmentation?
Skin pigmentation is the most common form of differentiating between races; however, not the only one. When Adolf Hitler was deciding on his "Aryan Race" he chose White, Blond haired, and Blue eyed individuals.
 

Noctosphere

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So the only difference between races is skin pigmentation?
well, in NCIS (which is actual police and not some kind of police coming from the future, they are using today's technologies) they could make a profile out from a drop of blood
They could determinate the owner is part of which of those 3 groups
caucasian, negroique and asiatique
 

Whole lotta love

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Skin pigmentation is the most common form of differentiating between races; however, not the only one. When Adolf Hitler was deciding on his "Aryan Race" he chose White, Blond haired, and Blue eyed individuals.
This is exactly my point. There is no universal consensus on what constitutes each race, and that definition is constantly changing. Again, the Irish, Germans, Italians, etc. only relatively recently became white people. Skin pigmentation would be able to differentiate between a white Vuban and an Italian American in many cases. There are Hispanics with lighter skin than Europeans, so having light skin is not intrinsic to being white.

Also, SLC24A5 can be used to differentiate between South Asian people (as shown in the link you yourself provided) so it is not a reliable marker for racial differences. You would not be able to use that market to differentiate between a South Indian man and a white British woman.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

well, in NCIS (which is actual police and not some kind of police coming from the future, they are using today's technologies) they could make a profile out from a drop of blood
They could determinate the owner is part of which of those 3 groups
caucasian, negroique and asiatique

These tests essentially amount to a very good guess.
There are certain alleles that are more common in some populations than others, but it is never 100%.

My point is that there is nothing intrinsic to white people in the DNA. All of the biomarkers can be found in people of other races.
 

dAVID_

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The problem is, that if you're not used to, say, people from Asia, you'll act weird even though you have no problem with them.
This happens to my mom a lot.
Regarding the "is race the same as ethnicity" debacle, a quick search in the dictionary can solve that question.
But no, races are not solely determined by skin pigmentation. For example, black men tend
to possess a bulkier body structure, however, they share the same organs, anatomy, etc.
This means that the gene that makes bulky body structures, is more dominant on black men, rather than white men. Why? That knowledge surpasses me.
 
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The problem is, that if you're not used to, say, people from Asia, you'll act weird even though you have no problem with them.
This happens to my mom a lot.
Regarding the "is race the same as ethnicity" debacle, a quick search in the dictionary can solve that question.
But no, races are not solely determined by skin pigmentation. For example, black men tend
to possess a bulkier body structure, however, they share the same organs, anatomy, etc.
This means that the gene that makes bulky body structures, is more dominant on black men, rather than white men. Why? That knowledge surpasses me.

And those genes can be found in white men so they are not intrinsic to being black.
 

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