Story canon, what does it mean to you?

tempy_thinker.png

A canonical story is a story which follows on from established events and worlds in previous works. If a story does something which contradicts previous works held to be in the same universe then it is said to break with canon. Canon can be useful as it allows you to establish a story and explore it over many works, and it can be troubling in that it then restricts you as you have to make new characters, technology/magic and events work within the established logic lest you be accused of violating canon. In games you have the further problem that you are either prevented from doing multiple endings, having to establish a "canonical ending" in any sequel or find yourself having to do a lot of extra story writing and level design that may never get seen.
It is possible to retroactively make works non canon, in games one such thing being the Castlevania handheld games when later entries in the franchise hit.

Zelda Breath of the Wild has been seeing some discussions recently and some of the more interesting criticisms concerns "the timeline". Now it was the understanding of many that a few games might have had direct sequels, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask for instance, but for the most part it was a common theme that the developers could use to make a story. In films such a thing is seen in James Bond where a given James Bond might revisit locations and characters but as a whole it is treated more as a setup for a story, the setup however being one that everybody knows.
In more recent years though a "timeline" for Zelda was attempted to be constructed by fans, though as the series features time travel it was less of a time line and more of a time flow chart, and as the timeline creators seem to opt for the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics... for something less complex maybe look at street fighter sequels. Nintendo was seemingly hesitant to give the seal of approval for any such timeline, or provide their own, and thus we are back at it being a worldbuilding setup but not necessarily a story one. Breath of the Wild then being something of a rejection of the timeline idea in the eyes of some.

Other examples in games. The Dead Rising series saw a completely non canon/reimagining of the second game to instead star the seemingly beloved character from the first game in Dead Rising 2: Off the Record. Such alternate universes/what if scenarios can also play on some established lore but subvert it such that those playing with an understanding of previous works may get to experience something anew. In computer games the latter is less common but it is a long established practice within pen and paper role playing games that may be based on an established work.

Thus far we have not even brought up the ideas of alternate universes (immensely popular in comics), different vantage points/while this was happening (some of the Crysis sequels and spinoffs being this, Resident Evil also playing with this on several occasions, even within the same game), unreliable narrators, and fan works (sometimes referred to as fanon).

This is a new feature on GBAtemp where we discuss and explore concepts, mechanics and similar things found within games. We already have a very long list of things to cover but suggestions and guest spots are welcome.

To that end what are your feelings on canon within games? How important is it to you? Do you have a different interpretation of any of the points brought up? Do you have any favourite examples of use, abuse or misuse of canon within games? Any examples where you felt things trying to adhere to canon hobbled the resulting game?
 

RedBlueGreen

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
2,026
Trophies
1
XP
2,538
Country
Canada
Canon isn't really all that important to me since most games I play are JRPGs and a lot of them take place in different worlds or stories even if they are in the same series. I prefer stuff like Resident Evil keep a consistent canon. I don't care if the Elder Scrolls games break canon because I really don't care about the lore that much. The only story and lore I really give a shit about takes place in ESO.
Kingdom Hearts. I think the story writers have a hard time trying to come up a cohesive story due to the multiple worlds Sora visits. being canon or not as long as it feels like the story is moving, it's fine by me.
I still have no idea what was going on in Dream Drop Distance. 358/2 Days was kind of similar. Like the whole game takes place after Sora is sleeping to have his memories restored after Chain of Memories, but for some reason the members of Organization XIII that were killed in Chain of Memories are still alive for a while? Roxas is shown not to be a member of the Organization until after Sora's sleeping as well, so he shouldn't be in The World That Never Was until after the members of Organization XIII from CoM were defeated (save for Axel). IIRC the game specifically mentions that those people were defeated in Castle Oblivion as well, meaning that the early part of 358/2 Days takes place during CoM. But it can't chronologically, because Roxas isn't around at that time. You could argue that Roxas was created when Sora released his heart in the first game (but I think he was actually created after CoM since Sora was still alive later in KH1 and CoM) but that still doesn't make any sense.
 
Last edited by RedBlueGreen,

wormdood

pirate booty inspector
Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
5,256
Trophies
2
Age
38
Location
behind a parental advisory sticker
XP
4,188
Country
United States
And by Links Awakening I meant Link to the Past. Whoops! XD
oh ok . . . although its not
The plot of A Link to the Past focuses on link as he travels on a journey to save Hyrule, defeat Ganon and rescue maidens related to the Sages.
. . . while the supposed squeal is one of the few Zelda games not to take place in the land of Hyrule, and does not feature Princess Zelda or the Triforce relic. Instead, protagonist Link begins the game stranded on Koholint Island, a place guarded by a creature called the Wind Fish.

sure it was slated to be a squeal but a squeal it simply is not
 
Last edited by wormdood,

TotalInsanity4

GBAtemp Supreme Overlord
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,800
Trophies
0
Location
Under a rock
XP
9,813
Country
United States
oh ok . . . although its not
The plot of A Link to the Past focuses on link as he travels on a journey to save Hyrule, defeat Ganon and rescue maidens related to the Sages.
. . . while the supposed squeal is one of the few Zelda games not to take place in the land of Hyrule, and does not feature Princess Zelda or the Triforce relic. Instead, protagonist Link begins the game stranded on Koholint Island, a place guarded by a creature called the Wind Fish.

sure it was slated to be a squeal but a squeal it simply is not
That doesn't change the fact that storyline wise it fits. That'd be like saying Majora's Mask couldn't be a sequel to Ocarina of Time because it takes place in Termina
 

RedBlueGreen

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
2,026
Trophies
1
XP
2,538
Country
Canada
ike let take Pokemon on 3DS for exam. People had been going around connecting XY, ORAS and Sun/Moon together and to older game because Looker is in those game.
It could very well be true, or it could be Looker from another world. The only thing we can say for sure is that Red, Blue, Green and Gold, Siver, and Crystal are directly connected as are Black and White with Black 2 and White 2.

I think that Sun and Moon could take place in the same canon as the other games because in the Rainbow Rocket episode of US/UM the evil team leaders from other worlds all say that there was never a similar trainer to your character who tried to stop them and someone (was it Wicke?) references the Team Rocket from Red and Blue/Green that was stopped.
 
D

Deleted User

Guest
Story canon means something to me when it breaks the illusion of what I want from the story. Let's take half life for example. I believe the half life series follows a linear path of events. Expansions like Blue shift or opposing force or not canon, but that doesn't mean they are not fun games. Nobody in their right mind would call something like the
Half Life 2 Cinematic Ultra Graphics Mod as canon because it's such shit. It turns half life 2 into a joke of a game and breaks canon.
 

wormdood

pirate booty inspector
Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
5,256
Trophies
2
Age
38
Location
behind a parental advisory sticker
XP
4,188
Country
United States
That doesn't change the fact that storyline wise it fits. That'd be like saying Majora's Mask couldn't be a sequel to Ocarina of Time because it takes place in Termina
new world / lore / characters / new goal / and zero backstory given in the tloz la to connect it to the tloz alttp

and btw the opening in mm directly connecting oot and mm is what made that a sequel (not to mention the unique key item the oot being the center of the game in both games story's)

if anything albw could be considered a squeal to alttp
 

SANIC

GBATemp's Sonic Fan in Residence, 後
Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,599
Trophies
1
Age
22
Location
Last Seen: Green Hill
XP
2,704
Country
United States
Kingdom Hearts. I think the story writers have a hard time trying to come up a cohesive story due to the multiple worlds Sora visits. being canon or not as long as it feels like the story is moving, it's fine by me.
KH does have a cohesive story
Unchained X
Birth By Sleep
KH1
Chain of Memories
<1 Year Gap>
358/2 Days (This game takes place of the course of one year.)
KH2
Re: Coded
Dream Drop Distance
KH3
0.2 (it's mickey telling a story of Aqua and how he found the Kingdom Key D, so technically right before KH 1, but takes place in the present. It has been 10 years since the events of Birth By Sleep.)

what is a squeal to links awakening. . .?
The story of that Link goes from
LttP
Link's Awakening
Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons
Link Between Worlds is more of a reimagining of LttP. Also the sequel to Link Between Worlds is Triforce Heroes
 
Last edited by SANIC,
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4

TotalInsanity4

GBAtemp Supreme Overlord
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,800
Trophies
0
Location
Under a rock
XP
9,813
Country
United States
new world / lore / characters / new goal / and zero backstory given in the tloz la to connect it to the tloz alttp

and btw the opening in mm directly connecting oot and mm is what made that a sequel (not to mention the unique key item the oot being the center of the game in both games story's)

if anything albw could be considered a squeal to alttp
If I remember correctly the manual for Link's Awakening directly states that he went sailing looking for new adventures after the events of LttP
 
  • Like
Reactions: wormdood

wormdood

pirate booty inspector
Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
5,256
Trophies
2
Age
38
Location
behind a parental advisory sticker
XP
4,188
Country
United States
If I remember correctly the manual for Link's Awakening directly states that he went sailing looking for new adventures after the events of LttP
now i gotta do some googling and reading (i personally got the game used when i was a kid . . . never had/seen a box or manual)
 
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4

Veho

The man who cried "Ni".
Former Staff
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
11,346
Trophies
3
Age
42
Location
Zagreb
XP
39,803
Country
Croatia
Talking about game settings and stories here, right?

I guess canon is important when a game is a direct sequel to its predecessor's storyline, but "canon" is flexible and any established plot point or detail of lore can just be retconned away if it's in the way (although you can go way overboard with retcons too *cough*Blizzardgames*cough* ).

On the other hand games like Zelda are too varied and too far apart from each other in style and story to be crammed into a single world or divide them into "canon" and "non-canon" stories. I always viewed it as an archetypal "hero's journey" story repeating many times in many universes, with some similarities but no hard connections between them. They all really happened, they are all "canon" to their own universe. With the exception of direct sequels, they are all separate worlds and different Links. I've always considered the need to cram them all into a single universe and a single timeline at any cost very silly and pointless. Like trying to establish an official Super Mario timeline.
 

XDel

Author of Alien Breed: Projekt Odamex
Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Messages
2,714
Trophies
2
Age
49
Location
Another Huxleyian Dystopia
XP
3,549
Country
United States
This is extremely important to me, which is why I find it impossible to remain of fan of Halo past part 2, and why as a life long Star Wars fanatic, I have been hard pressed to enjoy anything beyond the old books and Dark Horse comics, from the advent of the "Special Edition" re-releases , all the way up to the Last Jedi, which for me, was indeed the final nail in the coffin, though most people today seem to be conditioned to have an intolerance for detail, and so it is that market trends follow the same pattern...
...the very one they themselves manufactured.
 

osaka35

Instructional Designer
Global Moderator
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
3,735
Trophies
2
Location
Silent Hill
XP
5,920
Country
United States
If the game tells me to care about it, i will. If it tells me not to, I won't. otherwise i'll just consider it interesting but not necessary.

Metroid: Other M, for example, told us to care a looooot about the story and backstory. It goes against much of the canon established from the previous games, of which that canon was important for the story. So it deserves the shit it catches.

Megaman has a surprisingly detailed back story, though the confusing bits of the story don't break the fun of the games. Kind of like with zelda. Fun to think about, and it can add a dimension of depth and reward for completion, but not necessary since the designers didn't think it terribly important.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4

ars25

I like tacos and pie
Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
900
Trophies
1
Age
26
Location
the world that never was
XP
2,027
Country
United States
I still have no idea what was going on in Dream Drop Distance. 358/2 Days was kind of similar. Like the whole game takes place after Sora is sleeping to have his memories restored after Chain of Memories, but for some reason the members of Organization XIII that were killed in Chain of Memories are still alive for a while? Roxas is shown not to be a member of the Organization until after Sora's sleeping as well, so he shouldn't be in The World That Never Was until after the members of Organization XIII from CoM were defeated (save for Axel). IIRC the game specifically mentions that those people were defeated in Castle Oblivion as well, meaning that the early part of 358/2 Days takes place during CoM. But it can't chronologically, because Roxas isn't around at that time. You could argue that Roxas was created when Sora released his heart in the first game (but I think he was actually created after CoM since Sora was still alive later in KH1 and CoM) but that still doesn't make any sense.
358/2 starts during the end of Kingdom Hearts and the whole beginning tutorial happens inbetween the end of KH1 and the beginning of COM. thats why you see the Orginazation members that were killed in the beginning. as for your Roxas Confusion he (and Namine) were made when sora released his heart, and the reason why Sora got his body back was because of kairi giving his heart a "Physical Form" in the same vein as Ansem SOD was in the first KH. While roxas had his real body(So technicly SOra up untill the end of KH2 was a walking sentient Heartless). So thats why Roxas and Sora could exist at the same time.
 

SANIC

GBATemp's Sonic Fan in Residence, 後
Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,599
Trophies
1
Age
22
Location
Last Seen: Green Hill
XP
2,704
Country
United States
358/2 starts during the end of Kingdom Hearts and the whole beginning tutorial happens inbetween the end of KH1 and the beginning of COM. thats why you see the Orginazation members that were killed in the beginning. as for your Roxas Confusion he (and Namine) were made when sora released his heart, and the reason why Sora got his body back was because of kairi giving his heart a "Physical Form" in the same vein as Ansem SOD was in the first KH. While roxas had his real body(So technicly SOra up untill the end of KH2 was a walking sentient Heartless). So thats why Roxas and Sora could exist at the same time.
Walking sentient Heart not heartless. Kairi restored his heart
 

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • ZeroT21 @ ZeroT21:
    it wasn't a question, it was fact
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    He said he had 3 different doctors apt this week, so he prob there. Something about gerbal extraction, I don't know.
    +1
  • ZeroT21 @ ZeroT21:
    bored, guess i'll spread more democracy
  • LeoTCK @ LeoTCK:
    @K3Nv2 one more time you say such bs to @BakerMan and I'll smack you across the whole planet
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Make sure you smack my booty daddy
    +1
  • LeoTCK @ LeoTCK:
    telling him that my partner is luke...does he look like someone with such big ne
    eds?
  • LeoTCK @ LeoTCK:
    do you really think I could stand living with someone like luke?
  • LeoTCK @ LeoTCK:
    I suppose luke has "special needs" but he's not my partner, did you just say that to piss me off again?
  • LeoTCK @ LeoTCK:
    besides I had bigger worries today
  • LeoTCK @ LeoTCK:
    but what do you know about that, you won't believe me anyways
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    @BigOnYa can answer that
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    BigOnYa already left the chat
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Biginya
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Auto correct got me, I'm on my tablet, i need to turn that shit off
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    With other tabs open you perv
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    I'm actually in my shed, bout to cut 2-3 acres of grass, my back yard.
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    I use to have a guy for that thanks richard
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    I use my tablet to stream to a bluetooth speaker when in shed. iHeartRadio, FlyNation
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    While the victims are being buried
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Grave shovel
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Nuh those goto the edge of the property (maybe just on the other side of)
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    On the neighbors side
    +1
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Yup, by the weird smelly green bushy looking plants.
    K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2: https://www.the-sun.com/news/10907833/self-checkout-complaints-new-target-dollar-general-policies...