​

When it comes to PC gaming in general, Windows has always been the main OS for users, for its focused development on said OS, and for its compatibility with the vast majority of gaming software available.

While Windows has historically maintained most of the gaming market for PC, other operating systems have also hold a share in it, even if low, like Linux and macOS, which next to Windows, have also their own gaming market. For decades, Windows held the first place, with a percentage of around 95+%, followed closely by macOS and then Linux following with percentages barely breaking above the 1%.

However, due to the popularity of the recently released Steam Deck just a year ago, alongside Valve's own SteamOS, the percentage share for Linux gamers has seen a historical rise in usage, taking the 2nd place with 1.96%, which was held previously by macOS with 1.84%. That 1.96% isn't specific to a particular distribution of Linux, since Linux also ranges from a wide variety of them, with the following braekdown based on Linux distributions for gaming:

SteamOS: 42.07% Arch Linux: 7.94% Ubuntu 22.04.2: 7.38% Freedesktop.org SDK 22.08: 5.99% “Manjaro Linux”: 4.29% Linux Mint 21.1: 3.84% Pop!_OS 22.04: 2.97% Other Linux operating systems: 25.52%

Without a doubt, a huge number of the chart is taken up by SteamOS users, and while SteamOS is the operating system that comes bundled with the Steam Deck, it can also be installed in PCs, though it's unknown just how much of that 42% is taken up by actual Deck users, and how many by PCs with SteamOS users, but it might be safe to say that the majority of that portion from the chart could very well be Steam Deck players.

Source #1
Source #2

 

[Dungeonseeker]

Your home folder shouldn't have any bearings of drivers, since the drivers are part of the system, not the user.
The only thing you might need to do is to reconfigure some software that might not like copying of profiles (like Thunderbird, since you need to start it first to create a new profile, then copy in your stuff in to the new profile).

Nah, Firefox and Thunderbird .config and .cache folders work on new installs with zero intervention. With TB especially, you don't even have to re-sign in to email accounts.

 

[tabzer]

"Let me tell you how easy Linux is and all of your difficulties using it is unrelated to it."

I'm pretty sure everyone here has a unique experience with it, with some overlap.

and then deploy that one image across a fleet of more-or-less identical computers

Okay @linuxares I changed my mind. Windows Enterprise is a fleet of utility trucks.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

Here are some facts:

Valve is the one hosting the data. Their data counts SteamOS as Linux. An unknown amount of MacOS devices are being interpreted as Windows platforms, largely due to the latest method Apple is using to support gaming. An article interpreted Valve's data as to mean "Linux overtakes MacOS as the 2nd most used OS for gaming".

It seems like:

You want to remain in Valve's data, to compare Linux to MacOS, despite understanding that you aren't able to see accurate MacOS representation. If Apple's latest method is wildly successful, this data would be blind to it.

Curious about how you think Apple can fix Valve's telemetry problem or even why you think they should.

Also, it seems like you are ignoring the other point I made that I wanted to bet you on. Are you done with that?

SteamOS is Linux. Why would it not count?
What you're actually upset about is PROTON being counted as Linux, as it's a compatibility tool which emulates a Windows environment! But... It's only able to do this because Linux Steam client is what's being used to launch games with Proton.

This isn't the case when it comes to Game Porting Toolkit, usually, since Windows games CANNOT be installed from Steam's macOS application. I'm going to sound like a broken record trying to explain how this works, but if Game Porting Toolkit doesn't get support within Steam, people using that compatibility tool won't be detected as macOS users because they're launching the Windows version of Steam from an emulated Windows environment.

For as long as Apple sees their Game Porting Toolkit as a developer tool, this won't change. I'm positive Valve could easily drop this in to work similarly to Proton on Linux, but they can't just do that and need Apple to be willing to cooperate for that to happen... Otherwise they'll be stepping on toes needlessly, and we know how sensitive Apple's toesies are.

Post automatically merged: Aug 6, 2023

Case in point. When SteamOS does it, it's Linux. When MacOS does it, it's Windows. Who's deciding the score? Valve. How would Apple evaluate it? Thanks.

Valve's not the one deciding how Apple's Game Porting Toolkit works, but it would take both Valve and Apple cooperating to fix what you're upset about, which I've said like five times that I don't see any indication of happening. It's not impossible, but Apple has to want to actually do something to make Game Porting Toolkit accessible as a consumer tool.

 

[tabzer]

SteamOS is Linux. Why would it not count?
What you're actually upset about is PROTON being counted as Linux, as it's a compatibility tool which emulates a Windows environment! But... It's only able to do this because Linux Steam client is what's being used to launch games with Proton.

This isn't the case when it comes to Game Porting Toolkit, usually, since Windows games CANNOT be installed from Steam's macOS application. I'm going to sound like a broken record trying to explain how this works, but if Game Porting Toolkit doesn't get support within Steam, people using that compatibility tool won't be detected as macOS users because they're launching the Windows version of Steam from an emulated Windows environment.

For as long as Apple sees their Game Porting Toolkit as a developer tool, this won't change. I'm positive Valve could easily drop this in to work similarly to Proton on Linux, but they can't just do that and need Apple to be willing to cooperate for that to happen... Otherwise they'll be stepping on toes needlessly, and we know how sensitive Apple's toesies are.

Basically you are telling me that you suspect that Valve and Apple have to cooperate with each other in order for Valve's data to accurately report MacOS platforms. (Still begs the question why Apple should comply so that Valve can become more "honest")

If you are going to compare Apple's support of gaming to Linux support of gaming, then you need accurate data that can consistently measure both. It's really simple.

Valve can control their side of how Proton works with Steam, that it's interpreted as "Linux". Apple does not have access to that type of control because steam is closed source to them. They work on development for their own solution. Valve data can conveniently ignore it. So. Knowing this. How do you rationalize the OP?

 

[Dungeonseeker]

Basically you are telling me that you suspect that Valve and Apple have to cooperate with each other in order for Valve's data to accurately report MacOS platforms. (Still begs the question why Apple should comply so that Valve can become more "honest")

If you are going to compare Apple's support of gaming to Linux support of gaming, then you need accurate data that can consistently measure both. It's really simple.

Valve can control their side of how Proton works with Steam, that it's interpreted as "Linux". Apple does not have access to that type of control because steam is closed source to them. They work on development for their own solution. Valve data can conveniently ignore it. So. Knowing this. How do you rationalize the OP?

At this point I think you're being wilfully ignorant, wilfully stupid or both.

Apples program was written by Apple to report itself to the OS as Windows, it quite literally has nothing to do with Valve, Valve are not forcing Apple into doing it this way nor are they, or do they, require Apple to comply with anything.

Again Apple wrote their won tool to lie about itself to the OS. Steam being closed source is irrelevant since all it does is look at the available data provided by the OS and aggregate it, if Apple were to change their software to report as macOS then Steam would detect it as macOS, there would be no need to Apple to submit anything to Valve nor for Valve to make any changes to Steam.

You're mad at Valve because of the way Apple wrote their program to work.....

 

[tabzer]

At this point I think you're being wilfully ignorant, wilfully stupid or both.

Apples program was written by Apple to report itself to the OS as Windows, it quite literally has nothing to do with Valve, Valve are not forcing Apple into doing it this way nor are they, or do they, require Apple to comply with anything.

Again Apple wrote their won tool to lie about itself to the OS. Steam being closed source is irrelevant since all it does is look at the available data provided by the OS and aggregate it, if Apple were to change their software to report as macOS then Steam would detect it as macOS, there would be no need to Apple to submit anything to Valve nor for Valve to make any changes to Steam.

You're mad at Valve because of the way Apple wrote their program to work.....

If that's the case, then Apple is responsible for sabotaging Valve's data.

Still makes Valve's data flawed and this OP misleading.

Sure. I can agree to blame Apple for that if that's what you want, for the sake of argument, as long as we are closer to agreeing that the data is skewed.

I fully disagree with Steam being closed source as irrelevant though. "Dev self reports its project to be successful" Shills: yay! we knew it!

 

[Dungeonseeker]

If that's the case, then Apple is responsible for sabotaging Valve's data.

Still makes Valve's data flawed and this OP misleading.

Sure. I can agree to blame Apple for that if that's what you want. As long as we are closer to agreeing that the data is skewed.

Finally, and yeah, Valves data is skewed by the miniscule amount of people using the Apples GPT to run games on macOS, that I can agree on. Its still not Valves problem that Apple choose this route though.

I fully disagree with Steam being closed source as irrelevant though. "Dev self reports its project to be successful" Shills: yay!

You are free to disagree, you're still wrong though. Steam is already fully capable of detecting macOS and has been for longer than it has for Linux. In case you were unaware, Steam for Mac is older than Steam for Linux (May 12th 2010 vs Feb 23rd 2013).

Edit - Also gotta love how you throw in "successful" like its some shade on the project. By any metric Steam Deck is a success, it has sold millions, improved on the next best way to game on the go (Switch) in pretty much every way and created an entirely new segment of the market that didn't exist before. You really think we'd have freaking Lenovo making a Deck competitor if it wasn't making bank?

 

[tabzer]

Valves data is skewed by the miniscule *undetermined amount of people using the Apples GPT

Fixed!

You are free to disagree, you're still wrong though. Steam is already fully capable of detecting macOS and has been for longer than it has for Linux. In case you were unaware, Steam for Mac is older than Steam for Linux (May 12th 2010 vs Feb 23rd 2013)

In case you didn't notice, your claim that "steam is already fully capable of detecting macOS" directly contradicts the reality that we agreed to. Apple not trying to support Valve is completely unsurprising to me (hopefully you too), despite how old Steam is. We know Apple is walled-garden bullshit. Them not helping Valve to report honestly is totally in their MO.

 

[Dungeonseeker]

Fixed!

Fair enough, can't disagree. The two things are not mutually exclusive though.

In case you didn't notice, your claim that "steam is already fully capable of detecting macOS" directly contradicts the reality that we agreed to. Apple not trying to support Valve is completely unsurprising to me (hopefully you too), despite how old Steam is. We know Apple is walled-garden bullshit. Them not helping Valve to report honestly is totally in their MO.

We actually don't know that is the case. GPT is still a very young product and over time Apple can easily change these types of things. As others have pointed out though, Apples seems more interested in targeting developers to port their games over to "native" macOS using it compared to what Valve did with Proton, target the end user.

 

[tabzer]

Edit - Also gotta love how you throw in "successful" like its some shade on the project. By any metric Steam Deck is a success, it has sold millions, improved on the next best way to game on the go (Switch) in pretty much every way and created an entirely new segment of the market that didn't exist before. You really think we'd have freaking Lenovo making a Deck competitor if it wasn't making bank?

Steam Deck is a success if it sells more than it costs to build it, or demonstrates a quantifiable increase in business. A puff piece on the internet saying "it did better than macOS in this arbitrary metric" does not. I did not mean to suggest that SteamDeck is not a success. People have interpreted the messaging of the OP to indicate that, and it's based on flawed comparisons. I also can't blame Valve for the contents of the article, lest they had a hand in perpetuating it somehow.

 

[Dungeonseeker]

Steam Deck is a success if it sells more than it costs to build it, or demonstrates a quantifiable increase in business. A puff piece on the internet saying "it did better than macOS in this arbitrary metric" does not determine that.

Flawed logic, its almost a definite that the big companies sell the hardware at a loss and count of recouping it through sales, at least in the first few years of a products life. Microsoft, Sony & Nintendo all do it and have been doing as far back as the 16bit generation.

Also FYI, I was talking in a more general sense as opposed to this thread specifically. I actually agree that we should'nt take Valves word for it that Deck is doing X or Deck Vs Y, as I said though, we don't have to. Everyone and their mums have jumped onboard the gravy train, this alone tells you everything you need to know about the success of the product.

 

[tabzer]

Flawed logic, its almost a definite that the big companies sell the hardware at a loss and count of recouping it through sales, at least in the first few years of a products life. Microsoft, Sony & Nintendo all do it and have been doing as far back as the 16bit generation.

Though not as elegantly spoken as I usually am ( ) that's exactly the point of this:

"or demonstrates a quantifiable increase in business"

Of course that increase of business would have to demonstrate an overall net positive somehow.

I'm really not disputing its success, only how people are using this data to suggest it. I think all of these companies are more successful *than my business is--at least in terms of fiat. I have a lot to learn from all of them.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

If you're emulating a Windows environment and running Steam inside of it, you are running Steam on Windows. There's no misleading data, this is how emulation and virtualization work. Now, WINE isn't technically an emulator, but it's the easiest way to explain it. There's nothing being done to deliberately sabotage any data, it would be the exact same on any other platform using WINE, too. Valve has gone out of their way to integrate their own WINE fork, Proton, into Steam's NATIVE LINUX CLIENT, so you're not running Window's Steam client but still can access Proton per-game. Something similar could be achieved on macOS IF Apple decides to play ball with that idea. I'm just saying the same thing over and over in different ways but it's the only way to answer your willful ignorance.

 

[tabzer]

If you're emulating a Windows environment and running Steam inside of it, you are running Steam on Windows. There's no misleading data, this is how emulation and virtualization work. Now, WINE isn't technically an emulator, but it's the easiest way to explain it. There's nothing being done to deliberately sabotage any data, it would be the exact same on any other platform using WINE, too. Valve has gone out of their way to integrate their own WINE fork, Proton, into Steam's NATIVE LINUX CLIENT, so you're not running Window's Steam client but still can access Proton per-game. Something similar could be achieved on macOS IF Apple decides to play ball with that idea. I'm just saying the same thing over and over in different ways but it's the only way to answer your willful ignorance.

"Let me continue to rationalize why Valve's data accurately reflects MacOS and SteamOS on comparable terms, even though it doesn't."

Valve has gone out of their way to integrate their own WINE fork, Proton, into Steam's NATIVE LINUX CLIENT,

Literally the only reason why closed source was relevant in my mention.

If I get a steamOS tattoo on my chest, will you agree with me?

 

[AkikoKumagara]

"Let me continue to rationalize why Valve's data accurately reflects MacOS and SteamOS on comparable terms, even though it doesn't."

I've muted you. I've explained so many times why what you want isn't currently possible through no fault of Valve's own, but because Valve and Apple would need to cooperate to make this a reality going forward. You cannot download Windows binaries on Valve's macOS Steam client, but this is because the means to run Windows games on macOS aren't intentionally targeting consumers in the first place.

More of the same thing being said over and over. There's nothing Valve can do to fix this on their own, Apple would need to agree to package or ship Game Porting Toolkit with Steam, the same way Valve does with Proton. They've shown no indication of this being their intention.

I'm done.

 

[Xzi]

Valve is the one hosting the data. Their data counts SteamOS as Linux. An unknown amount of MacOS devices are being interpreted as Windows platforms, largely due to the latest method Apple is using to support gaming.

SteamOS is Linux. Proton doesn't emulate Windows in the same manner Apple's toolkit does, and Linux doesn't have near as many native ports as MacOS does. You're banking on the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of Mac users playing older games on the Toolkit, when the reality is that newer games with native support are much more popular.

Again: the toolkit is all fine and good, but publicly Apple has been dead silent in a supposed push for gaming on their platform. They'd rather spend their marketing bucks on pushing mobile "games," because those are sales they actually get a cut of.

 

[tabzer]

Proton doesn't emulate Windows in the same manner Apple's toolkit does,

No shit. They operate just differently enough for Steam on SteamOS to register on as Linux and MacOS to register as Windows. Trying to validate that nuance as meaningful for the discussion is just straight shilling.

and Linux doesn't have near as many native ports as MacOS does

Can you explain the connection between this statement and the primary?

You're banking on the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of Mac users playing older games on the Toolkit, when the reality is that newer games with native support are much more popular.

Lol. No.

I'm not banking on anything. If I was investing in these companies, (though Valve is not publicly traded), I would transfer a good portion of stock from Valve to Apple at this particular junction. The fake news reeks of desperate, forced overachievement, and indicates that people are becoming aware that Valve has reached a peak. What Apple does next is unpredictable, to me, but they don't really have to do anything to regain their treasured 2nd place position next month. Let's bet on it, mate. Put up or shut up.

I really don't have a clue to how people are using "GPT" (lol the acronym). It literally is the point in demonstrating that the data doesn't support the claim.

 

[Foxi4]

SteamOS is Linux. Proton doesn't emulate Windows in the same manner Apple's toolkit does, and Linux doesn't have near as many native ports as MacOS does. You're banking on the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of Mac users playing older games on the Toolkit, when the reality is that newer games with native support are much more popular.

Again: the toolkit is all fine and good, but publicly Apple has been dead silent in a supposed push for gaming on their platform. They'd rather spend their marketing bucks on pushing mobile "games," because those are sales they actually get a cut of.

I’m enjoying watching this exchange from a safe distance. On one side we have MacOS pretending to be Windows, on the other we have Linux running Windows software because Linux is not natively compatible with fun, both arguing which one’s more better-er as they imitate the real G.

 

[tabzer]

I’m enjoying watching this exchange from a safe distance. On one side we have MacOS pretending to be Windows, on the other we have Linux running Windows software, arguing which one’s more better-er as they imitate the real G.

That's the truth. I never disputed that Microsoft wouldn't win as MacOS and Linux players fight each other. I'm not here to cheerlead companies.

 

[Xzi]

I’m enjoying watching this exchange from a safe distance. On one side we have MacOS pretending to be Windows, on the other we have Linux running Windows software because Linux is not natively compatible with fun, both arguing which one’s more better-er as they imitate the real G.

Ultimately, Valve wins, PC gaming wins, and exclusivity loses. As a closed platform, MacOS has many of the same issues/privacy concerns that Windows does, and so Linux being pushed as an alternative is important.