Pokémon - The Battle Between Legitimacy and Legality

[DaniPoo]

No, thats not really what I was saying that they were thinking. Its more like they know that people are aware that EV's exist now, so instead of trying to ignore that, they add a feature to help people creat great IV pokemon without having to hack the game.

 

[lordofthereef]

I think (speculation face engaged) that it's more of a let people play how they want sort of mentality. If people want to go in and make their teams strong and competitive, it's kinda like, hey why not give them the resources to at least see if they are on the right track?

Oh, I am sure it is. I am just saying that if EV/IV were discovered by hackers, as was posited, wouldn't it make sense not to reinforce that at all? Instead, they go how many generations with the same flipping problem and are now talking about nixing a formula that clearly doesn't work in the next gen.

No, thats not really what I was saying that they were thinking. Its more like they know that people are aware that EV's exist now, so instead of trying to ignore that, they add a feature to help people creat great IV pokemon without having to hack the game.

Maybe I am the one not being clear, since Ryokuki essentially said the same thing. What I am saying is, they are perpetuating people's desire to just hack the monsters. Why? Because they know you have to strive for the perfect EV. (not to mention legitimately gaining a "perfect" monster is about as boring as it ever gets, unless you like excite bike without the excite) They know you need to bike around for dozens of hours to get the team you want. So they bypass it. Nintendo thinking that you are going to do anything BUT reinforce hackers desire to hack by pointing out the EV/IV have great value is silly, to say the least.

 

[DaniPoo]

Well they have given us atleast two ways to shorten the time needed to hatch an egg. so they must be aware that many people spend lots of time hatching them
With pokemon X and Y I felt like nintendo really tried to please all types of players. Im not saying that Nintendo is ok with hackers and I never did.
But they are aware of them and probably that most cheaters and hackers havnt got very much time to play the game hahaha

 

[lordofthereef]

Well they have given us atleast two ways to shorten the time needed to hatch an egg. so they most be aware that many people spend lots of time hatching them
With pokemon X and Y I felt like nintendo really tried to please all types of players. Im not saying that Nintendo is ok with hackers and I never did.
But they are aware of them and probably that most cheaters and hackers havnt got very much time to play the game hahaha

They did shorten it, this much is true. But it's hard to argue that it isn't a PITA to still try and hatch your monster with the IV set AND move set that you actually want. And for what? Honestly, PLEASE tell me (anyone) a legitimate reason why I should feel like I have accomplished something by biking back and forth by the river time and time again until a dice roll gives me what I want.

As far as time to play the game, I look at it a little differently than you, perhaps. It's not that I don't have time to play (I play too much as is lol). It's that I'd rather spend time battling than biking around. Because the more I battle, the better I get with anticipating strategy and know what sorts of builds go well together and what don't. Conversely, they guy who spends time breeding gets good at absolutely nothing. Once you learn how breeding works, (which anyone can do in roughly an hour or two... believe it or not this is the first pokemon series that I picked up since gen 1 and EVERYTHING was new to me, but I learned, AND I took the time to breed a handful of 5IV monsters) the more time you spend on it nets you nothing more. With battling, the more time you spend battling, the better you become.

 

[DaniPoo]

Yeah, but your 5IV team is your award for the effort spent in catching, breeding and training them. And that is fair.
But skipping all that is unfair. Even if you suck at the battles. Atleast thats my point of view.
To me that is as low as buying a wow account with max lvl characters and great gear and then go PVP.
One may argue that it wouldnt be unfair because anyone who think its worth it could do the same.
But to me its the same as cheating. Everyone should have to go trough the same process to get on top.

 

[lordofthereef]

Yeah, but your 5IV team is your award for the effort spent in catching, breeding and training them. And that fair.
But skipping all that is unfair. Even if you suck at the battles. Atleast thats my point of view.
To me that is as low as buying a wow account with max lvl characters and great gear and then go PVP.
One may argue that it wouldnt be unfair because anyone who think its worth it could do the same.
But to me its the same as cheating. Everyone should have to go trough the same process to get on top.

My very point is I am being "awarded" to do an extremely tedious, monotonous task that is neither fun, nor improves my gaming ability.

As far as WoW, I haven never bought an account, but I have been in among top 50 US guilds back in the days of ICC. And honestly, I could care less about a guy who buys an account. Because, more often than not, they are terrible. Gaining gear in that game actually required you to achieve something more than just running back and forth and hoping you win a dice roll. It would be nothing but BAD ASS if you attained pokemon through going up in battling ranks (a la PVP in wow). Nope. You attain pokemon by biking and swapping out destiny knots.

I suppose your argument is that is an achievement. My argument is that it isn't. I didn't achieve anything. I got n accolade for repeating a mind numbing task over and over again. I don't feel that is gaming. I don't feel that validates any of my abilities in any way meaningful. If you are happy with that, that is certainly your prerogative. And I am not judging you for wanting to do that. But I don't. I have more fun going straight to battles. And if that means you want to judge me, or think I am cheating, or what have you, I am perfectly fine with that too. I am likely not even hurting your game, because I am likely playing with others who did the same as me, in higher tiers, while you play with those who do not, in lower tiers.

 

[nryn99]

Yeah, but your 5IV team is your award for the effort spent in catching, breeding and training them. And that is fair.
But skipping all that is unfair. Even if you suck at the battles. Atleast thats my point of view.
To me that is as low as buying a wow account with max lvl characters and great gear and then go PVP.
One may argue that it wouldnt be unfair because anyone who think its worth it could do the same.
But to me its the same as cheating. Everyone should have to go trough the same process to get on top.

Off-topic but I think buying Max lvl characters would still fall into fair since you are paying the price of that character, literally. And the character itself and it's items made legitimately. It's more similar to buying legitimate pokemons.
I don't mind if people use different process, if it's one of how it's should be. in some games there are different ways to reach your goal, some are simply better than the others. (microtransactions, pay2get it sooner.)

 

[lordofthereef]

Off-topic but I think buying Max lvl characters would still fall into fair since you are paying the price of that character, literally. And the character itself and it's items made legitimately. It's more similar to buying legitimate pokemons.
I don't mind if people use different process, if it's one of how it's should be. in some games there are different ways to reach your goal, some are simply better than the others. (microtransactions, pay2get it sooner.)

Just an FYI, most companies, including Blizzard and Nintendo, have copyright protections against things like this. Not sure if it's the case where you are, but it is literally illegal to sell characters, unless permission is expressly granted by the maker. That doesn't keep people from doing it though.

 

[Ryukouki]

Just an FYI, most companies, including Blizzard and Nintendo, have copyright protections against things like this. Not sure if it's the case where you are, but it is literally illegal to sell characters, unless permission is expressly granted by the maker. That doesn't keep people from doing it though.

It's kinda like piracy, illegal to do, yet still happens. I know some people who have successfully sold many accounts and made KILLINGS out of it.

 

[lordofthereef]

It's kinda like piracy, illegal to do, yet still happens. I know some people who have successfully sold many accounts and made KILLINGS out of it.

Technically it is piracy, in terms of US laws, but that always baffles me. The content creator isn't missing out on any potential revenue. It's not like you are selling a bootleg. The buyer cannot use the "product" without having paid the content creator for it anyway...But you are right. One of my guild leaders sold his account the first time he quite. He got about $3000 for it. He did, however have all pets, mounts, and vanity crap in the game that existed at that time. So if you calculated the dollars per hour he made, it was probably actually pennies lol.

 

[DaniPoo]

Im not sure I view it like that either.. It's not an achievement that you have spent your time biking back and forth.
But it becomes that much more of an achievement to win battles with the pokemon you have got fair and square instead of winning with some ljuicy generated poké's.

 

[Ryukouki]

Im not sure I view it like that either.. It's not an achievement that you have spent your time biking back and forth.
But it becomes that much more of an achievement to win battles with the pokemon you have got fair and square instead of winning with some ljuicy generated poké's.

Fair point, but you can also argue that let's say you're some fresh kid with your level 75 guys, you hop online, only to be raped repeatedly by a weather team... and then proceed to wonder why things went south.

 

[nryn99]

Just an FYI, most companies, including Blizzard and Nintendo, have copyright protections against things like this. Not sure if it's the case where you are, but it is literally illegal to sell characters, unless permission is expressly granted by the maker. That doesn't keep people from doing it though.

Yeah, i was only commenting about RMT part because in generating pokemons you don't lose time or money, while gaining perfect IV pokemon.

 

[lordofthereef]

Im not sure I view it like that either.. It's not an achievement that you have spent your time biking back and forth.
But it becomes that much more of an achievement to win battles with the pokemon you have got fair and square instead of winning with some ljuicy generated poké's.

For me, if it wash't an achievement to acquire them through hatching, it sure as heck won't matter if I am then winning battles (or not) with them. Especially when I know the guys at the top aren't wasting their time biking either.

I also haven't even touched on Pokemon acquired via trade. Lets say I breed a 5IV shiny (or whatever) and trade it for another. How do I know it wasn't generated by someone or cloned by someone else? Am I some sort of cheater for having used that monster in battle then? (actually a read a hilarious comment, maybe on this board, comparing using genned mon acquired in trade to receiving stolen goods. You can believe the LOLs commenced).

 

[DaniPoo]

Hahaha, I guess you guys figured out by now that I dont aprove of cheaters in online games.
I dont see the point in debating further right now.

 

[nryn99]

This achievement and stuff, wasn't the reward of tedious biking and hatching...perfect IV pokemons? what else were you looking for?
I think it's time Gamefreak change their mechanics and remove IV like what some of the replies I see here. Problem is how to make them.
It's easy with games like Dota 2 because the developers listens to suggestions all the time.

 

[Ryukouki]

We also forget Nintendo is years behind in online infrastructuring too... So changes might come either never or in a long long time.

 

[Sheimi]

I also haven't even touched on Pokemon acquired via trade. Lets say I breed a 5IV shiny (or whatever) and trade it for another. How do I know it wasn't generated by someone or cloned by someone else?

There is a list of clones on a google doc. (I cannot find the link atm). BUT, if you are that worried that it is a clone. Then breed the pokemon.

 

[DaniPoo]

And yeah its hard to know wether or not a pokemon is hacked.
And I wouldnt call the person who got a perfect hacked pokemon from the GTS a cheater if he wasnt aware that it was hacked somehow.
But its still lower the value of those great pokemon if people start to flood the GTS with perfect pokemon. Haha pokemon inflation

 

[lordofthereef]

This achievement and stuff, wasn't the reward of tedious biking and hatching...perfect IV pokemons? what else were you looking for?
I think it's time Gamefreak change their mechanics and remove IV like what some of the replies I see here. Problem is how to make them.
It's easy with games like Dota 2 because the developers listens to suggestions all the time.

If I wasn't lazy I would look up the press release where someone from GF basically said this is the road they are headed down. EV/IV are literally the thing (well maybe shines too but that doesn't matter since it's all aesthetic) that drives hacks, gens, clones, etc. Level the playing field completely by getting rid of these stats that don't actually need to be there, and you get rid of the controversy overnight.

I am going to come out and say that if you want to be competitive, TRULY competitive, you are going to clone, or gen (notice I don't say HACK, because moves that have no business being on a mon have no business being in the game, PERIOD). If you legitimately DO NOT do that (and I honestly believe such a person doesn't exist) you are literally spending hundreds of hours just getting your proven team built and ready for tournament.