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The situation in Ukraine...

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BitMasterPlus

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You're a total moron if you think gay and trans people can't be trained to shoot a target just as well as straight people can. They've been a part of every war in history, and they're a part of every military on Earth right now, too. They just can't be open about it in a lot of places.
Oh really? Do you stake your life on that? Do you really stake your life on it? Have a battalion of gays and trans protect you and
go up against a unit of powerful Russian men or Chinese men and tell me what happens. If you survive I'll take back what I said.

During the Trump presidency, Russia helped Assad commit mass murder to his opposing people.

The difference is that Trump even widrawn from Syria at his buddy Putin's request, leaving US allies, the Kurds to go fuck themselves.

Even now, Putin invades Ukraine, a soberain nation and Trump praises him.
And he killed nearly a dozen Russian mercenaries in air strikes in Syria. If you were Putin, would you fuck with the man any more after that and risk more damage? You'd be a pretty big fucking idiot to challenge anyone like that without the proper backing. And just because Trump called Putin a smart guy doesn't equate to praising him or approving what he's doing now. You can acknowledge your enemies intellignce and still hate them and want to take them down. Stop spreading actual misinformation, which is common to those who claim when they don't like to hear the truth.
 

futures

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And just a quick reminder to all if you need someone else to blame for this, let's look at the tally:

Bush Presidency: Russia invades Georgia

Obama Presidency: Russia invades Crimea

Trump Presidency: *wind whooshes*

Biden "Presidency": Russia invades Ukraine

See the pattern? If not I'll spell it out for ya. It's obvious Trump and Putin have been plotting behind America's back for years to organize all these invasions so when Trump became president nothing would happen until he left. You might think Trump was the most peace keeping, anti-war president since he ended wars and never started them despite everybody said he was going to start World War 3, but that is simply not true. He is the true evil tyrant behind all this I know it!

Correction:

Bush Presidency: Russia invades Georgia

Obama Presidency: Russia invades Crimea

Trump Presidency: Russia invades USA

Biden "Presidency": Russia invades Ukraine
 

pustal

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Oh really? Do you stake your life on that? Do you really stake your life on it? Have a battalion of gays and trans protect you and
go up against a unit of powerful Russian men or Chinese men and tell me what happens. If you survive I'll take back what I said.


And he killed nearly a dozen Russian mercenaries in air strikes in Syria. If you were Putin, would you fuck with the man any more after that and risk more damage? You'd be a pretty big fucking idiot to challenge anyone like that without the proper backing. And just because Trump called Putin a smart guy doesn't equate to praising him or approving what he's doing now. You can acknowledge your enemies intellignce and still hate them and want to take them down. Stop spreading actual misinformation, which is common to those who claim when they don't like to hear the truth.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/middleeast/trump-syria-attack.html

Also:
“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine—of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. So, Putin is now saying, ‘It’s independent,’ a large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s the strongest peace force. We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy, I know him very well. Very, very well.”
If "smart" is not a praise to you, is "wonderful" neither?

What about practice what you preach and actually stop with the misinformation?

PS: I'd have no problem having non straight or non male defined people watching my back over straight males. The army requirements are the same. Better yet, I'm not gonna reduce the forces willing to defend me based on a macho insecurity, fuck that. You are capable, willing to fight for me, my country, my people, you're in. Ukraine army and militia is full of women and they aren't checking if anyone's gay In fact, this was even a talking point on Russia propaganda.

Yet Ukraine's giving a hell of a fight to Russia, because, like the brief I just posted above said, they are much more well motivated than Russian soldiers. People are there for the love of their country and people.

Macho insecurity is what led to this war, that is making Putin reckless and preventing him any deescalation. I rather have pondered and pragmatic people in charge too, whatever their personal background is.
 

Xzi

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Oh really? Do you stake your life on that? Do you really stake your life on it? Have a battalion of gays and trans protect you and
go up against a unit of powerful Russian men or Chinese men and tell me what happens. If you survive I'll take back what I said.
This sounds like the rantings and ravings of a lead-poisoned boomer, but it's even more pathetic because I know you're a lot younger than that. Some of the most muscular people I've seen have been gay, and some of the skinniest and fattest drunks I've seen have been Russian. "Powerful Russian man" is straight-up propaganda that you're buying into, they aren't any more built on average than anyone else.

Not that "strength" is at all relevant here, we're talking about firing a gun. A 12-year-old girl can be taught to do it properly, and if a gay/trans person is willing to join the military on the front lines of combat, you can be pretty damn sure they're a better shot than most.
 
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pustal

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This sounds like the rantings and ravings of a lead-poisoned boomer, but it's even more pathetic because I know you're a lot younger than that. Some of the most muscular people I've seen have been gay, and some of the skinniest and fattest drunks I've seen have been Russian. "Powerful Russian man" is straight-up propaganda that you're buying into, they aren't any more built on average than anyone else.

Not that "strength" is at all relevant here, we're talking about firing a gun. A 12-year-old girl can be taught to do it properly, and if a gay/trans person is willing to join the military on the front lines of combat, you can be pretty damn sure they're a better shot than most.
A lifetime ago, a few friends used to drag me down to Carnival disco parties (club partes as the kids called these days). Everyone choose a sexy suit to attract the ladies or the lads, depending what they were into, I would hunt down the most ridiculous outfit I could find, like a banana.

This one year I found an amazing shark costume and let's just say I was 'the' photo op of the party.

There is somewhere in the deeps abysses of the internet a photo of me with 3 gay guys dressed as sailors that look like Schwarzenegger in his peak, dancing around me.

If any of them was actually in the navy or military in general, I'm sure he'd emasculate a lot of bigots. I wouldn't be surprised if they where, as there was a military air base nearby.
 
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SG854

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Some situation...

As with (by now) everyone, I've been watching the invasion unfold. The position of Russia quickly changed from "we need to protect Russian minded groups in Donetsk and Luhansk" to "these groupings should have sovereignty" to "we're going to stop Ukraine for resisting us".

It baffles me in so many ways. I never held Putin in any sort of high regard, but I really thought he was smarter than to downright invade a neighboring country without being provoked in any way. Of course nobody's going to stand for it. It was pretty much a given that no country would side with Russia (aside Belarus, but they're hardly more than a Russian province so they're pretty much insignificant), and that the Oriental side would remain neutral wasn't rocket science either.

So why do it? The situation in the Crimea was only different because it had a lot of Russian supporters on the peninsula (hard to portray yourself as the liberators when the majority doesn't want you in the first place). Donetsk and Luhansk had at best fringe groups allying themselves with Russia. In no way anything resembling a majority, and it was never an annexation either.

So...why? Putin's in power of Russia for years if not decades. NATO and the US never liked the autocracy it turned into after the USSR fell, but it's not their job to run the country (sovereignty, y'know?).
Sure, Ukraine wanted to become a member of NATO which brought the faultline (the proverbial iron curtain) closer to Russia...but NATO wasn't created to be anti-Russia. It's just that Russia's governing style is only not a dictatorship in name only ("you can vote for anyone you choose! No...Not that guy! We imprison him and don't even try to find a non-absurd excuse").

So in that way, Putin's hand might be triggered...but this doesn't strike me as an impulse move at all. Putin might be surrounded by yes-men (unlike Trump, who was surrounded by people who didn't want useless conflicts), but there had to be a plan for this. I don't see Putin gambling that NATO was just going to shrug and let those cities and then Kiev taken because of some propaganda ("oh, so Ukraine is just going to pester some fringe groups in their Eastern region at the exact same time 100'000 alligning Russian soldiers are innocently doing military excercises accidentally directly next to the Ukraine border? Thanks for informing us, Russian-controlled state media :) ").

He must've known. Perhaps underestimated the severity, but...*ugh*...I don't like to say it, but the rightwing nutjobs in this thread are right that our governments don't do enough. I disagree with some on whether or not that's a good thing, but our response was too slow, not enough and...certainly initially: kind of lame, really.

Belgium's now sending weapons and "is about to" send some troops.

Some troops.

It's better than nothing, I guess, but meanwhile they can get in line behind the many volunteers who went there sending food, clothing or simply transport for the many refugees fleeing Ukraine. I'm in favor of hitting the financial system and oligarchs close to Putin...but that's the sort of news I kind of expect as a backup from the clear and unwavering support we should be given Ukraine the moment the actual invasion began. Not multiple days later.

And with an actual war on our hands, the battle for truth becomes actually important. Remember that "Russia interfered in the 2016 US election" thingy? That's probably regarded as a main rehersal or something in Russian intelligence agencies, whereas the main attraction is trying to sway public opinion away from, or somehow legitimize, their attack.


I don't think they can. From my understanding, the average Russian is very much opposed to this move as well, which means that this isn't so much an attack by Russia as it is by Putin.

I'm not viewing the world through action-movie glasses, but perhaps things really shouldn't be more complicated than it should be. Hurt Russia financially by cutting off any sort of supplies (no, not just for some 1% oligarchs: shut down swift for all the banks operating in the territory). Cut off all transport of goods from and to the place.
Yes, it'll hurt us (I'm not as convinced that my heating isn't at least partially Russian, so it might get cold here). But we've got more allies. we'll win.
No single dictator can just tell the rest of the world what to do.

Last I've read there's some implications of invoking the nuclear arsenal if the West keeps supporting Ukraine. For that, I just repeat myself:

No single dictator can just tell the rest of the world what to do...


Fuckwad.
Nato isn't anti Russian but the U.S. has started many wars in the name of national security. Whether it's justified or not.

Putin has gave his reasons why he's at war with Ukraine he said its for his nations security.

If Ukraine joins nato then the U.S. can place nuclear weapons in Ukraine directed at Russia basically at Russians door steps.

Countries joining Nato and Nato countries has been surrounding Russia. Ukraine is the last country before Russia is completely surrounded. And Putin hates nato.

Putin started this war to maintain his power and security for his nation. Putin is an oligarch wanting power. He also failed to diversify his economy and is too reliant on gas and oil. And doesn't want Ukrainian oil to impact his economy.

(This is not me agreeing with Russia. I'm just stating Russians reasons for war. He may be a bit paranoid with Nato)
 
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Dr_Faustus

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we need to get a list together of gbatempers who make a military group and then we drive to ukraine and fight against russia :)

who's with me?
Considering the fact that we are all primarily here because we are in one way or another people who enjoy games, chances are we would mostly be best at Drone piloting and striking.
You do realize that you just downplayed the US army, right? Which army is more powerful?
The US army could win against the Chinese army, but not without nukes and not at China´s doorstep.
Its a split down the middle scenario. China has more raw people to throw at a problem until they can resolve it or they run out of people, the latter of which never seemed to have been a problem before with them. Not saying China has the upper hand in any of this, but if they have any advantage its raw numbers of people that they could militarize in an instant if needed. Even if its the equivalent of just grabbing a handful of bullets and throwing them at your enemy hoping one of them will actually do something.

Lol this thread makes me Realize all the “conservative” Trump supporter over the last two years on GBATemp were just Putin /CCP sponsored Propaganda trolls or just watch the world burn ones
That is nothing really new or surprising. A lot of Trump inspired folk are so twisted in the mindset of hating the democratic party they went from calling them socialists to them embracing the idea of Russia over democracy if it means not having to deal with the democratic party anymore. People really, REALLY wanted Trump to change the ground-set of our country's rules and essentially have him be our version of Putin.

All I can say about that is, when you fuck up your perception of reality so much that your patriotism turns into high treason you might have a problem on your hands. I must say Joseph McCarthy must be rolling in his grave seeing what happened to the Republican Party.
 

Taleweaver

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Nato isn't anti Russian but the U.S. has started many wars in the name of national security. Whether it's justified or not.

Putin has gave his reasons why he's at war with Ukraine he said its for his nations security.

If Ukraine joins nato then the U.S. can place nuclear weapons in Ukraine basically at Russians door steps.

Nato countries has been surrounding Russia. And Putin hates nato.

Putin started this war to maintain his power and security for his nation. Putin is an oligarch wanting power. He also failed to diversify his economy and is too reliant on gas and oil. And doesn't want Ukrainian oil to impact his economy.
Were not talking about the US right now.

Putin's reasons aren't worth much, let alone God enough to attack an innocent country.

And... I'm not saying you agree with Putin's reasons, but can you explain the train of thought there?
Starting a war with Ukraine always held a risk an escalation with the eu and Russia, and at the very least the former is exactly what he's getting. So how's that for security? In fact, how is it NOT increasing chances the US indeed parking nuclear silos in Ukraine in the near future?

As for remaining in power... That might work if you've got a large majority of popularity among your citizens. But fraudulent elections, sanctions that hurt the average Russian (the roebel's losing value fast) and the army occupied elsewhere, i wouldn't rule out an uprising or a coup.

So from what i presume his position is, i would think his chances of either are now being crippled.
 
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SG854

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Were not talking about the US right now.

Putin's reasons aren't worth much, let alone God enough to attack an innocent country.

And... I'm not saying you agree with Putin's reasons, but can you explain the train of thought there?
Starting a war with Ukraine always held a risk an escalation with the eu and Russia, and at the very least the former is exactly what he's getting. So how's that for security? In fact, how is it NOT increasing chances the US indeed parking nuclear silos in Ukraine in the near future?

As for remaining in power... That might work if you've got a large majority of popularity among your citizens. But fraudulent elections, sanctions that hurt the average Russian (the roebel's losing value fast) and the army occupied elsewhere, i wouldn't rule out an uprising or a coup.

So from what i presume his position is, i would think his chances of either are now being crippled.
I not the person you should be asking these questions. As I didnt come up with this line of thinking. It's putin that you should look toward. He always felt ukraine was a part of Russia.

Putin may be a bit paranoid. Because why else would you invade ukraine and have the whole world band against you and destroy your economy from sanctions. You don't risk all that for nothing. We're trying to rationalise a man whose gone mad.
 

Dr_Faustus

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Were not talking about the US right now.

Putin's reasons aren't worth much, let alone God enough to attack an innocent country.

And... I'm not saying you agree with Putin's reasons, but can you explain the train of thought there?
Starting a war with Ukraine always held a risk an escalation with the eu and Russia, and at the very least the former is exactly what he's getting. So how's that for security? In fact, how is it NOT increasing chances the US indeed parking nuclear silos in Ukraine in the near future?

As for remaining in power... That might work if you've got a large majority of popularity among your citizens. But fraudulent elections, sanctions that hurt the average Russian (the roebel's losing value fast) and the army occupied elsewhere, i wouldn't rule out an uprising or a coup.

So from what i presume his position is, i would think his chances of either are now being crippled.
His country has a strong chance to overpower him but its doubtful that it will happen in this case scenario.

As for his reason why? He is probably on his way out either mentally or health wise, and basically wants to go out like a mad man. He knows he is not going to get out of this situation in any good way but at this point he does not care. He is riding this out into the sunset, all we can hope for is that this does not end up taking a path too far and into nuclear territory, or that he is stopped before that happens.
 

djpannda

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I was just thinking that… most of the random Twitter troll just stopped..

545A4172-113F-4DF3-9300-989E59A1695C.jpeg

Guess professionals tend not to work if they don’t get paid

Granted.. I’m seeing soo much more Russian propaganda on Reddit…. My guess is they stopped The American psypios and just focusing on trying to discredit Ukraine
 

Dr_Faustus

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Guess professionals tend not to work if they don’t get paid

Granted.. I’m seeing soo much more Russian propaganda on Reddit…. My guess is they stopped The American psypios and just focusing on trying to discredit Ukraine

They don't just do it for money over there, they do it for the reddit karma and gold. :ph34r:
 

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I not the person you should be asking these questions. As I didnt come up with this line of thinking. It's putin that you should look toward. He always felt ukraine was a part of Russia.

Putin may be a bit paranoid. Because why else would you invade ukraine and have the whole world band against you and destroy your economy from sanctions. You don't risk all that for nothing. We're trying to rationalise a man whose gone mad.
... But i am looking at Putin. That's why i was wondering if you knew a reasoning of what you said. But that's okay. :)


Paranoia is just too simple of an explanation. He's a dictator, but i think we'd see a similar situation in the kremlin as in the white house in the Trump days if he was really 'just a mad man'. Putin doesn't have a history of stupid mistakes behind him, so i don't anticipate he's suddenly going full retard.
(it's also better. If we're wrong in that assessment, victory will come eventually. But underestimating could mean many more unnecessary deaths).

So... What's the long term plan here? Where does he hope to land?
 

Valwinz

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Lol this thread makes me Realize all the “conservative” Trump supporter over the last two years on GBATemp were just Putin /CCP sponsored Propaganda trolls or just watch the world burn ones
This is why you should ignore Panda

People dying and here he is with orange man bad
 
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Glyptofane

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Pretty amazing that so called liberals are more in line with neocons and Sean Hannity than actual conservatives these days. They've really done a number on you guys over the past few years by completely inverting your entire belief system, pretty much proving there never actually was one and it's just whatever the current programming for soulless automatons dictates.

Can't believe I'm saying it, but Mel Gibson (sorry, force of habit) Bernie Sanders and AOC are mostly right about Ukraine and NATO.
 

BitMasterPlus

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Correction:

Bush Presidency: Russia invades Georgia

Obama Presidency: Russia invades Crimea

Trump Presidency: Russia invades USA

Biden "Presidency": Russia invades Ukraine
God damn what a galaxy brain you have.

This should set the precedent of intelligence of half the people in this thread.
 

djpannda

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God damn what a galaxy brain you have.

This should set the precedent of intelligence of half the people in this thread.
at least its good to know Youre a Normal American "Conservative" troll and not a Russia hire. ...:unsure:
 
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