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<blockquote data-quote="zeello" data-source="post: 5095433" data-attributes="member: 327630"><p>you're playing the immersion card, but there is nothing immersive about randomly triggered encounters. The situation you describe translates to two things</p><p>1) visible enemies</p><p>2) the sequence takes place where you are (or beginning where you are) and not someplace entirely else you are teleported to</p><p> </p><p></p><p>This argument makes no sense whatsoever. In any game you cannot guess what happens next. The single player campaigns of FPS and third person shooters are a good example. Aside from having played the game before already, you have no idea what challenges you will face around the next corner, how much ammo you will need or what weapon will be best, or whether you will face enemies at all. This trait is executed far more brilliantly by virtually any game without randomly triggered encounters.</p><p> </p><p>(There are probably games where you are jumped by bandits, like Elder Scrolls. If you extend bandits to mean any enemy then Resident Evil games do the jump scare very well. You don't see it coming unlike random encounters. But "being jumped by bandits" will never be immerse in a random encounter system since the player is well aware that enemies are just cards being drawn from a pile. When returning from the battle your character is unmoved and there is no indication that the preceding battle has ever occurred at all, except maybe in the protagonist's own head.</p><p> </p><p>That's not even entirely on point, though, if an RPG is not meant to be realistic at all, and is just about stats and combat mechanics. Which is what many RPGs are, whether unintentionally or not. But this does not make randomly triggered encounters suitable here, either. Randomly triggered encounters are a cancer, and shouldn't exist period.)</p><p> </p><p>The second way to refute the argument is that you technically DO know what you will expect: More enemies. The only thing that keeps you guessing is the level itself. The kevel is actually new. The enemies are predictable and mundane. The enemies are punishing you for navigating the level. At best the enemies are there to pad out a small level or to disguise the lack of complexity of a simplistic level. But the point is, there's no surprise. After a handful of encounters, you already know the score. Its not "surprising" its just irritating. But more accurately, it is abuse.</p><p> </p><p>If surprise was really the issue, then there is no reason not to have scripted encounters, because the player could not be expected to anticipate those, whereas the next 100 randomly triggered encounters are all seen coming a mile away. (unless hyptheticalky the encounters were extremely rare, such as five minutes aoart at minimum--that would actually begin to be a surprise) After any given encounter, you *already know* you will take 20 paces and fight yet another encounter, facing a group of enemies chosen from a pool of groups of enemies which you have each already seen.</p><p> </p><p>But obviously surprise is not the issue, the issue is stubbornness, as I've said. Encounters are a shit idea but, not settling for merely tolerating them, people actually defend them, because people will evidently defend anything, especially if there is a cultural precedent.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>Huh? What are spawn points.</p><p>Adventuring? These are RPGs. If adventuring was a priroty, then random encounters should go out.</p><p>RPG means stats. If immersion was a priority, then random encounters should go out. And they should go out, because immersion is a valuable element to a game experience, whereas random encounters provide no intuotive benefits of any kind. They just "are".</p><p> </p><p></p><p>But you're twiddling a dial between more terrible or less terrible. You could argue all day that not all games are ruined by randomly triggered encounters, but I could argue that no game has ever benefitted from them, and that nobody who defends them could be considered to have critical ability.</p><p> </p><p>Some games need battles and some games need levels. Randomly triggered encounters is nothing more than a method of initiating an encounter from a level. As a method, it is the worst possible one.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="zeello, post: 5095433, member: 327630"] you're playing the immersion card, but there is nothing immersive about randomly triggered encounters. The situation you describe translates to two things 1) visible enemies 2) the sequence takes place where you are (or beginning where you are) and not someplace entirely else you are teleported to This argument makes no sense whatsoever. In any game you cannot guess what happens next. The single player campaigns of FPS and third person shooters are a good example. Aside from having played the game before already, you have no idea what challenges you will face around the next corner, how much ammo you will need or what weapon will be best, or whether you will face enemies at all. This trait is executed far more brilliantly by virtually any game without randomly triggered encounters. (There are probably games where you are jumped by bandits, like Elder Scrolls. If you extend bandits to mean any enemy then Resident Evil games do the jump scare very well. You don't see it coming unlike random encounters. But "being jumped by bandits" will never be immerse in a random encounter system since the player is well aware that enemies are just cards being drawn from a pile. When returning from the battle your character is unmoved and there is no indication that the preceding battle has ever occurred at all, except maybe in the protagonist's own head. That's not even entirely on point, though, if an RPG is not meant to be realistic at all, and is just about stats and combat mechanics. Which is what many RPGs are, whether unintentionally or not. But this does not make randomly triggered encounters suitable here, either. Randomly triggered encounters are a cancer, and shouldn't exist period.) The second way to refute the argument is that you technically DO know what you will expect: More enemies. The only thing that keeps you guessing is the level itself. The kevel is actually new. The enemies are predictable and mundane. The enemies are punishing you for navigating the level. At best the enemies are there to pad out a small level or to disguise the lack of complexity of a simplistic level. But the point is, there's no surprise. After a handful of encounters, you already know the score. Its not "surprising" its just irritating. But more accurately, it is abuse. If surprise was really the issue, then there is no reason not to have scripted encounters, because the player could not be expected to anticipate those, whereas the next 100 randomly triggered encounters are all seen coming a mile away. (unless hyptheticalky the encounters were extremely rare, such as five minutes aoart at minimum--that would actually begin to be a surprise) After any given encounter, you *already know* you will take 20 paces and fight yet another encounter, facing a group of enemies chosen from a pool of groups of enemies which you have each already seen. But obviously surprise is not the issue, the issue is stubbornness, as I've said. Encounters are a shit idea but, not settling for merely tolerating them, people actually defend them, because people will evidently defend anything, especially if there is a cultural precedent. Huh? What are spawn points. Adventuring? These are RPGs. If adventuring was a priroty, then random encounters should go out. RPG means stats. If immersion was a priority, then random encounters should go out. And they should go out, because immersion is a valuable element to a game experience, whereas random encounters provide no intuotive benefits of any kind. They just "are". But you're twiddling a dial between more terrible or less terrible. You could argue all day that not all games are ruined by randomly triggered encounters, but I could argue that no game has ever benefitted from them, and that nobody who defends them could be considered to have critical ability. Some games need battles and some games need levels. Randomly triggered encounters is nothing more than a method of initiating an encounter from a level. As a method, it is the worst possible one. [/QUOTE]
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