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Take-Two takes legal action against reverse engineered re3 & reVC projects
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<blockquote data-quote="smf" data-source="post: 9569920" data-attributes="member: 159384"><p>It was identical, but changing some bits wouldn't have helped. They could have made a clean room clone, like Phoenix did of the IBM bios, but chose not to.</p><p></p><p>They won the original case because they managed to argue that a binary wasn't copyright, only a printed copy of the source code was. However the court found on appeal that this was an incorrect application of the law. The output from going from source to binary is still covered by the original copyright, so it's safe to assume that the translation from binary back to source is still covered.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, you can learn how to make a watch by taking a rolex apart. But you can't then make a watch that looks like a rolex.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The live stream that aap did, shows him copy and pasting from the output of ida and that is what is in github.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>From what re3 have said publicly, it is 100% of it from decompliation. There will be a huge hurdle for them to overcome to argue that it was not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's impossible, after copying 100% of the code, to not have picked up something expressive.</p><p>It would change a lot of understanding of copyrighting of software, if the engine didn't include something expressive.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are the possible outcomes as I see it</p><p></p><p>1. there is no defense and instead T2 get a default judgement, github will be forced to remove all copies & if they can track down the developers world wide then they could go after them in their own countries (if they care enough).</p><p>2. re3 mount a defense based on fair use</p><p>3. re3 magic up evidence that shows it was a clean room reimplementation.</p><p></p><p>From the evidence re3 have posted publicly on github/twitter/youtube over the last couple of years, outcome 3 seems unlikely as everything shows that it is just copy and pasted out of ida (including the bugs).</p><p></p><p>outcome 2 will change how copyright applies to run time environments like java, libraries, etc. It's not really important that you can't run the game without extra files. The code itself is copyright, you aren't legally allowed to photo copy half of a book for example. What happens if someone now creates alternate assets for the GT3 engine?</p><p></p><p>A script for ida/ghidra that allowed you to create the source code locally from the original binary and then compile and run that is more likely to be seen as a fair use</p><p></p><p>I think outcome 1 is the most likely.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="smf, post: 9569920, member: 159384"] It was identical, but changing some bits wouldn't have helped. They could have made a clean room clone, like Phoenix did of the IBM bios, but chose not to. They won the original case because they managed to argue that a binary wasn't copyright, only a printed copy of the source code was. However the court found on appeal that this was an incorrect application of the law. The output from going from source to binary is still covered by the original copyright, so it's safe to assume that the translation from binary back to source is still covered. Sure, you can learn how to make a watch by taking a rolex apart. But you can't then make a watch that looks like a rolex. The live stream that aap did, shows him copy and pasting from the output of ida and that is what is in github. From what re3 have said publicly, it is 100% of it from decompliation. There will be a huge hurdle for them to overcome to argue that it was not. It's impossible, after copying 100% of the code, to not have picked up something expressive. It would change a lot of understanding of copyrighting of software, if the engine didn't include something expressive. There are the possible outcomes as I see it 1. there is no defense and instead T2 get a default judgement, github will be forced to remove all copies & if they can track down the developers world wide then they could go after them in their own countries (if they care enough). 2. re3 mount a defense based on fair use 3. re3 magic up evidence that shows it was a clean room reimplementation. From the evidence re3 have posted publicly on github/twitter/youtube over the last couple of years, outcome 3 seems unlikely as everything shows that it is just copy and pasted out of ida (including the bugs). outcome 2 will change how copyright applies to run time environments like java, libraries, etc. It's not really important that you can't run the game without extra files. The code itself is copyright, you aren't legally allowed to photo copy half of a book for example. What happens if someone now creates alternate assets for the GT3 engine? A script for ida/ghidra that allowed you to create the source code locally from the original binary and then compile and run that is more likely to be seen as a fair use I think outcome 1 is the most likely. [/QUOTE]
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