Playing Devil's Advocate: Good democrat policies that have actually helped people and positive things about the left.

Is antifa a democrat faction/directed group or just a bunch of bellends (or possibly larpers)? Sadly there do seem to be some movers and shakers offering a measure of support (against what I am not sure) but plenty of others seem ready to disavow. Similarly is open borders a US democrat position or just the lunatic fringe of said same?

Do you really think abstinence is an effective method as far as results in the wild? When evaluating things like the pill or condoms you get to account for people that fail to use them properly (possibly because they have only been taught abstinence) and that speaks to the net society/user wide effect? For giggles we might also look at the war on drugs and nonsense like D.A.R.E. if we are continuing down such evaluations. Futhermore does abstinence really have the potential to be a good method? Human sex drive in most people is insane, especially when young.
I would also find the "killing unborn babies" bit to be logically wrong but we already had that topic.

On the climate change thing (though I would expand the idea to be more environmental responsibility, climate change/global warming being just one part of the picture). Is that not similar to how there are some corrupt police somewhere (there are millions of them in the country so bound to be a bad egg in there somewhere) so all police are bad?

As far as welfare goes is that a failure of a concept or a failure of the implementation in question? See also the TSA vs the world and abolish ICE things -- in principle some reasonable goals to have but the implementation obtained might need a bit of working. Or we can look out at the world at large where there are plenty of countries with similar demographics and equally rich where such things do wonders.

"Ok, I tried to come up with some ideas, but I'm just not having any luck."

Yeah, wonder why that is.

@FAST6191 Thanks for your comment?

@smf I see you couldn't offer any ideas yourself and only resorted to make a remark about my lack of finding any.

@morvoran You'd put so much effort into pretending to play devil's advocate that it was obvious you weren't serious. Other than pointing that out and hoping you'll change, I don't see there is any point in me playing your game.

Real Stats on Democrats, pros and Cons

The 2010 Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act provided health insurance companies with revenue to cover those with pre-existing conditions by imposing a tax penalty on Americans who did not carry insurance. However the Obamacare tax took away Americans’ freedom to decide whether they want to use their income to pay for insurance.

The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 increased the top corporate income tax from 34% to 36% as a measure to offset deficit spending. However imposing increased taxes on businesses can reduce hiring and increase unemployment.

President Roosevelt guaranteed the government would pay for education for all veterans when he signed the G.I. Bill of Rights. (my personal fav as a US Army Vet)

The Truman Commission Report proposed federal subsidies for higher education that laid the groundwork for the community college system.

President Johnson signed the Elementary and Secondary Education Act to provide federal funds to schools in low-income areas.

A little-known provision of the Affordable Care Act eliminated Sallie Mae, making student loans more affordable. '

Dont get it wrong, Republicans as a political policy are NOT the enemy, Republicans ultimately want to make America a good place differently such as:

Harding's administration made U.S. banking more competitive internationally. It helped to rebuild Europe after World War I. Harding established an open-door trading policy in Asia. His administration negotiated trade deals with Malaysia and the Middle East. He also supported trade protectionist measures such as tariffs and limits on immigration. Those were Republican policies until the 1930s.

Calvin Coolidge said, "If the federal government were to go out of business, the common run of people would not detect the difference.” During his term, America transformed from a traditional to mixed economy. The U.S. gross domestic product increased by 42 percent. New construction doubled. Unemployment remained below the natural rate of around 4 percent. The United States produced half the world's output, since World War I had destroyed most of Europe.

Richard Nixon veered from traditional Republican policies. In 1969, the new president announced the Nixon Doctrine. It reduced U.S. military involvement in the Vietnam War. He told U.S. allies to take care of their own defense but would provide aid as requested. Nixon was responding to anti-war protests to end the Vietnam War.


I consider myself a progressive, but I understand the contributions of the parties when they are due.

The irony being that the New Deal (and a high top tax bracket) was responsible for all the decades which conservatives now consider to be the "golden age," when one full-time income could pay for a mortgage and car, as well as provide for a family of four.

But yeah, none of this is in good faith anyway, as @Clydefrosch pointed out. If we're sticking exclusively to the last couple decades, Republicans' only consistent policies have been tax cuts for the rich, endless wars based on lies, and trickle-down causing a loop of economic recession. There's nothing positive about any of that.

@smf yeah, you still haven't offered anything that helps me add to my list. I wonder why that is, hmmm? On top of that, you don't know what's in my heart and mind. Don't come here and explain to me how I feel. I'm really trying here.

@morovan Your charade of a devils advocate post tells me exactly what is in your heart and mind. It's obvious that you would just rubbish anything anyone provides, if you were serious about discussing it then you wouldn't write the way you do. It would be a much better use of your time to reflect on that than just saying "b.b.b.b.b.b.but you still haven't offered anything ner ner ner ner".

@smf look at what @shinrukus commented on. He wrote a very thoughtful, informative, and civil comment about both sides of the aisle. Have I bashed him or his comment? Nope. I actually applaud him for not being like the others on here that comment on my threads/blogs by only attacking my opinions or me while not bringing anything positive or informative to my blogpost (just like you have in all 3 comments so far).

Maybe you should try to step away from your keyboard and reflect on the choices you've made in your life and then come back when you can actually have a civil conversation that pertains to my topic.

antifa isn't democratic it is an anti government faction domestic terrorist the way i believe are democrats are for the average american and povertry rep are for the few super rich and the religious nuts,gun nuts

@chrisrlink That's why I put them under the "positive things about the left". They support leftist ideals by protesting and attacking those that don't share their same views in order to silence them. They think they are fighting for what is "good", but they are just hypocrites that use fascism to reach their goals.

the only reason why obama care became the mess it was, was because the republicans tore into it like a 2 year old into a birthday cake if it pass 100% without alteration we would have had the same healthcare system as Canada instead the republicans butchered it in hopes that they would not get blamed (and it worked because the american majority are gullible)

@morvoran So do you retract your original post? If you're such a fan of balance, then I would have thought you'd have done that already?

@chrisrlink Yeah unfortunately the republicans are very good at propaganda. Right wing always are, because you can have a strong message of hate against enemies making complex issues look really simple.

For example Building a wall is supposed to solve all the problems, but it's a waste of money. Money that would have been better spent on subsidizing health care. People go on about lazy people who don't want to work, but those are people who have been let down by society. You don't know what they've been through, what mental health conditions they have to cope with.

The people who are lazy are the ones that don't want to overcome the hardwired victim blaming https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/27/victim-blaming-science-behind-psychology-research

Gun control
Health care for all
Not shooting black people

All good democratic policies.

@smf you really crack me up. I'm not sure where you got that I'm a fan of balance. I do enjoy balance in the fact that I'm not falling over while I walk, but I'm not a fanatic about it.
Plus:
Gun control? Putting extra restrictions on law abiding citizens while criminals still have the same access to guns. Or maybe banning rifles when handguns are used in most gun crimes, so not changing anything.

Healthcare for all? You mean like Obama care where people were penalized with a tax penalty for not having coverage for the entire year while not offering any "affordable plans" that didn't have a high deductible before the insurance would kick in. Maybe, you're talking about a single payer system where tax payers will pay more in taxes for crappier health care. I don't want to have to wait months for a basic procedure.

Not shooting black people????? Who let this racist in here? How is that a Democrat policy? Why would the Democrats even need a policy for that? To keep their KKK org from lynching them? Exactly who is shooting these "black people"? Maybe go to Chicago and ask them. Oh, that's just gang violence and nobody cares, you say? Shame on you.

Get out of here with that nonsense until you can start to think on your own without your leftist leaders' talking points.

@morvoran I didn't think you were a fan of balance, that is why it's pointless in discussing with you.

Sure, ban hand guns & then put anyone in prison who is found with a hand gun. It would bring violent crime down a lot. The idea that you can protect yourself from being shot if you have a gun is insane. The more people buy hand guns to protect themselves, the more people get shot. It's clear you think just buying more and more guns will eventually reduce it, but it hasn't so far.

It's white cops that shoot black people, they all come over as republicans. Republican police chiefs, republican politicians don't stop them.

As for thinking on my own, I think you should look at your beliefs.

@smf If you really need to know, I don't own any guns (except for a pellet gun to keep squirrels out of my tomato garden). If you ban guns, then only criminals will have guns. We're not like Australia (that still has gun violence) as we're not cut off from the rest of the world. Mexico can still ship guns over here just like drugs (which are banned but people still die from using them, hmmm).

More cops are shot in the line of duty by black suspects than black people are being shot by cops. Plus, figuring that black criminals commit over 50% of murders in the US, it is likely that most of the black victims of police shootings are armed. Just because you only see the couple of instances where a cop shoots somebody while running doesn't mean they weren't armed or that there is a police violence epidemic in the US.

Maybe, you could look into both sides of situations before following along to the talking points of people with an agenda. The truth will set you free only if you give it a chance.

Watch this:

Not at all surprised you'd try to throw out prageru to make your case.


Just for context:
PragerU, short for Prager University, is not a university, nor is it an academic institution. It does not hold classes, and does not grant certifications or diplomas and is not accredited by any recognized body.

Historian Kevin M. Kruse has described a PragerU video as false revisionism. The video, entitled "Why Did the Democratic South Become Republican?" and hosted by political scientist Carol M. Swain, discussed the Republican Party's "Southern strategy" of the late 1960s. According to Kruse the video presented a distortion of history, cherry-picked its evidence, and was an "exercise in attacking a straw man".

Alex Nowrasteh of the Cato Institute criticized an anti-immigration PragerU video by Michelle Malkin. Nowrasteh said that the video was "rife with errors and half-truths, leaves out a lot of relevant information, and comes to an anti-legal immigration conclusion that is unsupported by the evidence presented in the rest of the video."

Regarding the PragerU video "The Suicide of Europe" by Douglas Murray, ADL fellow Mark Pitcavage has said that he does not consider it fascist or white nationalist, but that the video is prejudiced, and he says that it contains anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric that would certainly be agreeable to white supremacists.

Vanity Fair said PragerU "packages right-wing social concepts into slick videos" and that PragerU was "one of the most effective conversion tools for young conservatives."

Sociologist Francesca Tripodi described the effect of PragerU's videos in a report for the Data & Society Research Institute.According to Tripodi, "PragerU's choice of guests connects their audience to 'far-right' and 'alt-right' personalities" when these personalities also appear on the programs of PragerU's guests, and are promoted by YouTube's recommendation algorithm. Tripodi wrote that "content creators like PragerU are not only exploiting the practices of scriptural inference, but also relying on search engine optimization and suggested content to elevate their messaging", and that PragerU's content "allows for those who identify as mainline conservatives to gain easy access to white supremacist logic."

A Buzzfeed News article published in 2018 attributed PragerU's success to the quality of its production values compared to similar outlets, and to its use of popular presenters with established audiences. The article also noted that it had received comparatively little attention from news and media analysts due to PragerU's lack of coverage of topical issues, such as Donald Trump.

@Clydefrosch You forgot the part where you tell people to not debate me as I blah, blah, blah.... whatever nonsense hate you spread.

PragerU even admits they are not a university. They are a source of truth and facts. Not biased opinions and lies like some of the sources other people get their information from. Just because a group talks about right wing values and shows evidence against the left wing biased media's attack on true facts, doesn't make them any less trustful. All the information and stats they talk about can be found on your own by doing non-biased research.

I'm glad that you actually added something to a discussion other than just outright attacking me personally.

@morvoran If policed effectively then there will only be a small percentage of guns in the hands of criminals. A democrat would try to solve that by trying to end crime by helping those people who have turned to crime due to traumatic life events. A republican will say we need to try to shoot anyone we think might shoot us, even if that means that the number of people getting shot goes up.

Oh I still absolutely agree no one should waste their time with you. You clearly ignore facts of bias, lies and halftruths and try to sell off prager as a source of truths.
It's pretty much self-referential material. A right wing troll publishes in a right wing journal using cherry picked data (if not outright made up), breitbart reports on it and prager makes a slick animated video off it. And then they go in circles

That goes for you smf too, just leave. He's not debating you. He's just using you to bounce more barely tangential right wing propaganda points off of you.

And he's clearly going to delete these posts again, as they point out his transparent game.