Logic behind Christianity?

[quote name='Zetta_x' post='3767559' date='Jul 11 2011, 06:23 AM'][quote name='_Chaz_' post='3767544' date='Jul 10 2011, 11:10 PM']The church did a lot to keep society in order and to prevent primitive people from killing others or themselves.

Personally, I feel that the church is no longer needed, as we now have the power and technology to do that without the fear of an all seeing bundle of clouds.[/quote]

I agree with your reasons why church is no longer needed. Not only do they take an abundance amount of money to maintain, but it has to be one of the biggest reasons why a single religion will branch out in multiple variations because it's mainly ran on people's subjective ideas about religion.

We have the Bible, that should be all is needed for people to have faith and build onto their religion. Plus, big churches dedicated towards one religion is like a kick in the face to everyone elses religion. There is a Church near my house that has a giant billboard with the words "Jesus Loves You" and "Get back to Church". How intrusive...

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While we can all agree religion threads can turn into flame fests, we all must admit, these threads are one of the few topics that encourage lots of thinking.
[/quote]
i agree with both of you, but i also think this will be a very hard thing to do for it will bring chaos in the system since there are still many people believing in it. imagine nintendo going bankrupt.

[quote name='Hebon' post='3767473' date='Jul 10 2011, 10:33 PM'][quote name='Depravo' post='3767085' date='Jul 10 2011, 02:20 PM']Logic and religion are mutually exclusive. Logic encourages us to question whilst religion demands we blindly accept.[/quote]

That's actually untrue. Many aspects of Christianity allow people to question it, and the world around us. It's just a common misconception that if you question it, you're a heathen and are going to hell or that it's a sin.
As a Christian myself, I believe in God and the Bible, however, there are many aspects that confuse me and make little sense. I try to ask as many knowledgeable people as I can and get their different opinions on it. I am encouraged to research and read the bible and pray, and try to figure it out on my own. In the end, I end up going for the simplest, but most believable answer because I think the bible shouldn't be complicated.

I don't think God made the Bible difficult to understand. I think people made it difficult to understand.
[/quote]
Perhaps I should have used the word 'faith' rather than 'religion'. To have faith is to believe without proof and that in itself contradicts cold, hard logic. I wasn't endeavouring to suggest that religion is wrong only that it is, by definition, illogical.

[quote name='spinal_cord' post='3767377' date='Jul 10 2011, 04:40 PM'][quote name='mcp2' post='3767342' date='Jul 10 2011, 09:22 PM']-------8<-----
I, and many others, don't see how you can believe in God and not worship God.[/quote]

The same way I can believe that an architect created my local shopping mall, yet I feel no need at all to worship him.
[/quote]

That's a bad analogy. Going to a mall and worshiping the man who made it is different from worshiping the God that made the atoms of the materials used to make the mall AND the architect.
I mean, in most beliefs, he made you and gave you life.

Christianity itself cannot be judged by the actions of the Church of England or by the Roman Catholic Church as many people are doing in this thread.

[quote name='Hebon' post='3767591' date='Jul 11 2011, 06:51 AM'][quote name='spinal_cord' post='3767377' date='Jul 10 2011, 04:40 PM'][quote name='mcp2' post='3767342' date='Jul 10 2011, 09:22 PM']-------8<-----
I, and many others, don't see how you can believe in God and not worship God.[/quote]

The same way I can believe that an architect created my local shopping mall, yet I feel no need at all to worship him.
[/quote]

That's a bad analogy. Going to a mall and worshiping the man who made it is different from worshiping the God that made the atoms of the materials used to make the mall AND the architect.
I mean, in most beliefs, he made you and gave you life.
[/quote]
i see the analogy, maybe not worshiping but admiring or giving respect or something, like how you ask for the chef at a restaurant if the food is really good. it's just the intensity of the matter that makes it hard to see the analogy.



PS i don't believe god made humans unless there's proof.

[quote name='Narayan' post='3767598' date='Jul 10 2011, 11:56 PM']PS i don't believe god made humans unless there's proof.[/quote]
I still think the complexities of life in general as well as the design of the universe should be proof enough, but hey, for some it isn't.
There is proof staring people in the face, and they don't see it. Like one great big perception filter is in the way.

[quote name='ProtoKun7' post='3767604' date='Jul 11 2011, 07:00 AM'][quote name='Narayan' post='3767598' date='Jul 10 2011, 11:56 PM']PS i don't believe god made humans unless there's proof.[/quote]
I still think the complexities of life in general as well as the design of the universe should be proof enough, but hey, for some it isn't.
There is proof staring people in the face, and they don't see it. Like one great big perception filter is in the way.
[/quote]
i'm just the type of person who needs to know how he did it.

not the "he molds adam from sand and blew into him to give him life" one. unless i do, i won't put god as the one who made everything. but i believe that everything started from something.

[quote name='Narayan' post='3767608' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:04 AM'][quote name='ProtoKun7' post='3767604' date='Jul 11 2011, 07:00 AM'][quote name='Narayan' post='3767598' date='Jul 10 2011, 11:56 PM']PS i don't believe god made humans unless there's proof.[/quote]
I still think the complexities of life in general as well as the design of the universe should be proof enough, but hey, for some it isn't.
There is proof staring people in the face, and they don't see it. Like one great big perception filter is in the way.
[/quote]
i'm just the type of person who needs to know how he did it.

not the "he molds adam from sand and blew into him to give him life" one. unless i do, i won't put god as the one who made everything. but i believe that everything started from something.
[/quote]
Well, the Bible isn't a science book, so the precise details weren't written in, but suffice it to say he designed the body and built it using materials also found on Earth, and then started off the bio-processes.
One day we might find out how more precisely.

[quote name='ProtoKun7' post='3767617' date='Jul 11 2011, 07:10 AM'][quote name='Narayan' post='3767608' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:04 AM'][quote name='ProtoKun7' post='3767604' date='Jul 11 2011, 07:00 AM'][quote name='Narayan' post='3767598' date='Jul 10 2011, 11:56 PM']PS i don't believe god made humans unless there's proof.[/quote]
I still think the complexities of life in general as well as the design of the universe should be proof enough, but hey, for some it isn't.
There is proof staring people in the face, and they don't see it. Like one great big perception filter is in the way.
[/quote]
i'm just the type of person who needs to know how he did it.

not the "he molds adam from sand and blew into him to give him life" one. unless i do, i won't put god as the one who made everything. but i believe that everything started from something.
[/quote]
Well, the Bible isn't a science book, so the precise details weren't written in, but suffice it to say he designed the body and built it using materials also found on Earth, and then started off the bio-processes.
One day we might find out how more precisely.
[/quote]
yeah that is exactly what i'm waiting for, i just wish i'm still alive by then...
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I don't understand you guys. Why do you need proof? One of the whole points of God is for him to have amazing powers that is beyond human comprehension.

[quote name='30084pm' post='3767627' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:17 AM']I don't understand you guys. Why do you need proof? One of the whole points of God is for him to have amazing powers that is beyond human comprehension.[/quote]

I have abilities that are beyond the comprehension of most of the people I encounter. That doesn't make me a God. Although to be fair that's because the abilities in question are the ability to spell my own name, which is genuinely a mark of some considerable intellect around here.

[quote name='Blaze163' post='3767631' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:21 AM'][quote name='30084pm' post='3767627' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:17 AM']I don't understand you guys. Why do you need proof? One of the whole points of God is for him to have amazing powers that is beyond human comprehension.[/quote]

I have abilities that are beyond the comprehension of most of the people I encounter. That doesn't make me a God. Although to be fair that's because the abilities in question are the ability to spell my own name, which is genuinely a mark of some considerable intellect around here.
[/quote]
You are not God

[quote name='30084pm' post='3767627' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:17 AM']I don't understand you guys. Why do you need proof? One of the whole points of God is for him to have amazing powers that is beyond human comprehension.[/quote]

If HIS(???) powers are beyond human comprehension, then who is to say a religion based on his(why is it always a he?!) purpose is accurate?

[quote name='Zetta_x' post='3767643' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:32 AM'][quote name='30084pm' post='3767627' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:17 AM']I don't understand you guys. Why do you need proof? One of the whole points of God is for him to have amazing powers that is beyond human comprehension.[/quote]

If HIS(???) powers are beyond human comprehension, then who is to say a religion based on serving him (why is it always a he?!) is accurate?
[/quote]
He's also a person; you're supposed to create a relationship with him as a person, rather than what he can do.

[quote name='30084pm' post='3767636' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:26 AM'][quote name='Blaze163' post='3767631' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:21 AM'][quote name='30084pm' post='3767627' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:17 AM']I don't understand you guys. Why do you need proof? One of the whole points of God is for him to have amazing powers that is beyond human comprehension.[/quote]

I have abilities that are beyond the comprehension of most of the people I encounter. That doesn't make me a God. Although to be fair that's because the abilities in question are the ability to spell my own name, which is genuinely a mark of some considerable intellect around here.
[/quote]
You are not God
[/quote]

I meant in my local area. Believe me when I say the people here weren't just hit with the stupid stick. The whole town was hit with the Dumbass Nuke. Seriously, pretty much everyone I pass on the street looks like they've just escaped from a lobotomy session and ran face first into a wall on the way out. Just look at the people I work with.

I wasn't trying to say I am God, I was simply saying that 'powers beyond our comprehension' is based entirely on where you're viewing from. I have abilities beyond the comprehension of my cat (I can clean the underside of my chin for a start) whereas Steven Hawking has abilities far beyond my comprehension.

It was also a cheeky stab at a colleague I suspect is lurking around here. And if I'm right, GET BACK TO WORK YOU LAZY BASTARD!

[quote name='ProtoKun7' post='3767647' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:35 AM'][quote name='Zetta_x' post='3767643' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:32 AM'][quote name='30084pm' post='3767627' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:17 AM']I don't understand you guys. Why do you need proof? One of the whole points of God is for him to have amazing powers that is beyond human comprehension.[/quote]

If HIS(???) powers are beyond human comprehension, then who is to say a religion based on serving him (why is it always a he?!) is accurate?
[/quote]
He's also a person; you're supposed to create a relationship with him as a person, rather than what he can do.
[/quote]

My mind has officially been blown. This is my que to finish cooking my burritos and move on with my life.

[quote name='ProtoKun7' post='3767647' date='Jul 10 2011, 07:35 PM'][quote name='Zetta_x' post='3767643' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:32 AM'][quote name='30084pm' post='3767627' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:17 AM']I don't understand you guys. Why do you need proof? One of the whole points of God is for him to have amazing powers that is beyond human comprehension.[/quote]

If HIS(???) powers are beyond human comprehension, then who is to say a religion based on serving him (why is it always a he?!) is accurate?
[/quote]
He's also a person; you're supposed to create a relationship with him as a person, rather than what he can do.
[/quote]

Aaand THAT is why I became an Agnostic.

[quote name='Warrior522' post='3767660' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:40 AM'][quote name='ProtoKun7' post='3767647' date='Jul 10 2011, 07:35 PM'][quote name='Zetta_x' post='3767643' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:32 AM'][quote name='30084pm' post='3767627' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:17 AM']I don't understand you guys. Why do you need proof? One of the whole points of God is for him to have amazing powers that is beyond human comprehension.[/quote]

If HIS(???) powers are beyond human comprehension, then who is to say a religion based on serving him (why is it always a he?!) is accurate?
[/quote]
He's also a person; you're supposed to create a relationship with him as a person, rather than what he can do.
[/quote]

Aaand THAT is why I became an Agnostic.
[/quote]
...I...don't know what you're getting at.

TOP 10 SIGNS YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN...

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by
other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah,
but you don`t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered
all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic
groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods
sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit
impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back
to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically
established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing
dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that
Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those
who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity
in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant"
and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to
convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues"
may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers.
You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the
Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

[quote name='N.M. ZERO B.C.' post='3767676' date='Jul 10 2011, 07:52 PM']TOP 10 SIGNS YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN...

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by
other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah,
but you don`t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered
all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic
groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods
sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit
impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back
to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically
established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing
dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that
Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those
who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity
in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant"
and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to
convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues"
may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers.
You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the
Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.[/quote]
I love you so much.