I hope that title doesn't seem too overly-dramatic, but I will provide evidence as to why I make this claim.
I have decided to speak out publicly about the toxic bullying behavior I received from the leadership of the WiiHacks community, in their Discord server. Maybe nobody will read this, because it's quite long, but I'm putting it out there anyway, as sort of an "open letter."
I originally attempted to contact BloodyThorn (the owner of the WiiHacks subreddit and Discord) with my complaint about bullying, but he flatly refused to hear it, even though he presents himself as an anti-bullying crusader.
You want a TLDR version? I'm afraid that's not easily possible, because it's a complicated situation. Basically, moderators from WiiHacks banned me from a different Discord server (Nintendo Hacks 2.5) where they were also moderators, for having a disagreement with them, then greeted me with overt hostility, including obscenities, when I joined the WiiHacks Discord not knowing the same moderators would be there as well.
BloodyThorn stood by and let them do it, even justifying their behavior, despite having strongly-worded server rules about not harassing people.
At first I thought that maybe I was the only one having problems with the moderators of WiiHacks, but more recent events have revealed that I am not the only one having issues with them, so I'm bringing my issue out for public view. (I will go over some of those additional issues after I describe my own experience.)
Now, who am I? I am not anyone important. I have been involved in Wii Homebrew development. I only have what appears to be 9 posts on GBAtemp... but that's deceptive, since I have actually posted quite a bit more than that. I thought it was funny to keep my post count below 10 so that I would appear as an eternal noob, so I have only posted in the Edge of the Forum, where posts don't count, but if you look at my user statistics, you'll notice that I have way more likes and XP than could be accumulated from 9 posts.
So, now I have to go back to the beginning, and this will be long. But I had already written out this complaint in a letter to BloodyThorn, so I will just paste that whole thing in here. To be clear, the people I will keep referring to are the moderators/admins of the WiiHacks Discord, though their usernames will have changed by now.
Those moderators/admins referred to are:
"it never rains" = WiiMaster7071
"balls" = pentium#1474
"phoeg" = shrek#7532
"andy" = andyrogi#1812
and of course "BloodyThorn" is the owner, bloodythorn#9259
There were a couple other users in the discussion as well, but I don't think they had any special roles in the server.
And here is the complaint I tried to send to BloodyThorn. I did not hold back, but I remained civil, which is more than can be said for how they had treated me.
I also saved a copy of the raw chat log, if the reader wants to follow along and verify that I am relaying the facts and quotations accurately. That log is here:
https://tinyvast.com/Discord_Save/
The letter below will tell more than you will get from the raw log though.
Again, this was written to BloodyThorn:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
So, I am "Mr. Reaper."
I would not have bothered to contact you, except I had looked at the rules on your discord server (Rule 1), and wondered why such rules are even written when they don't seem to apply or be enforced when the bullying is being inflicted by the moderators. I figured it would be pointless to lodge any complaints, because who can you complain to when the people who are supposed to protect you are the ones attacking you?
But then I wondered if there were similar rules for the actual WiiHacks reddit, and I found this post, and was rather surprised to find such a strong anti-bullying statement written by you, when you had just sat by and let it happen to me. Reading some of your comments in that thread, I can only wonder, "where was THAT guy yesterday? It sure would have been nice if someone like HIM were in charge of that server...."
Seriously, re-read your comments all through this thread and apply it to the interaction that happened under your watch, in your discord server:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WiiHacks/comments/lt2beq/offtopic_bullying_harassing_and_safe_spaces/
I don't say this as an attack, but as a flat statement of honesty: you have fallen short of your own words.
So far this may seem like it's just going to be an attack, but it is not.
Yes, I feel I was absolutely bullied. I was made to feel like crap. It started before I had even said one word in your server. They started poisoning the waters against me by implying that I was coming there to cause trouble, so everyone just automatically started treating me like a troll, as if I deserved to be made to feel inferior. In your own words: "... that's the nature of bullying. It's purpose is to demean and make people feel bad and inferior."
If I were just some troll I wouldn't go to the trouble of writing this message to you (and I expect it will end up being long, because I always write things in great detail). I don't know if you will just write me off as "playing the victim" or what, but I'm going to write my thoughts and feelings anyway.
Now, after seeing that you were the one writing the rules about civility and anti-bullying, I looked back over the chat and found that you were not among those being uncivil... but you were (mostly) tolerating and normalizing their behavior. Your reddit post says this: "And just to re-iterate; IF ANY OF THE STAFF OF RWIIHACKS IS CAUGHT DEFENDING OR MARGINALIZING BULLY BEHAVIOR, IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED."
I won't just make that claim without pointing out the specific examples which I feel it applies to. But I'm going to go back and start at the beginning first.
To start, I am not a troll, or a liar, or someone looking to cause trouble, as I was repeatedly accused of yesterday. (And I realize I will keep saying "yesterday" even though by the time I get this written and checked over and sent, it might no longer be "yesterday," but I'm sure there will be no confusion about what day I am referring to).
I am an actual Wii homebrew developer -- I don't go around pointing that out (because I have not created much), except people were accusing me of just being a troll/troublemaker, and I was just trying to point out that I am a contributing member of the community. I think my Visual Controller Test app is used by a lot of people. I also made a decent game (Harmony's Nightmare) and a couple other little apps for amusement.
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/User:Mr._Reaper
I also help Owen with his apps, and he's still making Wii Homebrew to this day. I've currently been helping him with NewoZero, his latest game. You can see he lists me as a "Contributor" on the Wiibrew page for that game: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Newo_Zero (though if you want to try it, you should get the latest test build from his GBAtemp thread, since it has more fixes and improvements. Or just look up a youtube video of it -- some people are really getting into it -- it is one of his best games, if not the best one so far). In the title card for NewoZero, he gives me full credit for "Controls" because I helped him with the analog steering and acceleration controls in the game (since I'm the Controller Test guy...), but I have contributed much more than that to the game. Owen would say so himself, but HE is really the one doing all the hardcore work on the game. I also did the story script for his NewoAsteroids game, and provided other help and suggestions for that: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Newo_Asteroids
Looks like he's good about crediting his "Contributors" in his game pages. I've helped with lots of his other games too, though not in major ways, but I'm sure I'm listed in many of their title screens as a playtester. Not that being a playtester is a big deal, but it is valuable. Back when WiiBrew was active and many people were creating homebrew, I did a lot of testing and bug reports to help other developers make their games better.
But you know what? Why should I even have to state my credentials to prove that I don't deserve to be treated like a lesser person? I really shouldn't, but I've been made to feel like I have to.
No, I'm nobody important, with my little homebrew apps (I'm being serious -- I know my contributions are nothing spectacular, yet they are not worthless either).
So, what happened in the Nintendo Hacks 2.5 server? Barely anything. Rockman, who I do not know, had started posting questions about homebrew and gamecube games on the wii and controller options, over the course of a couple days. I was answering questions for him over a couple days (and other people were even quoting some of my replies when he asked something similar, perhaps not having seeing my answer the day before. Then Rockman said he'd never "jailbroken his wii" in the context of using Nintendont, wanting to use a USB controller on his black wii (no GC ports) for gamecube games, so he seemed like a complete beginner in homebrew. So I wanted to help him get started in the easiest way possible, with just getting the homebrew channel using Letterbomb (probably the simplest, most widely-used exploit). I did a quick Bing search to look for the simplest guide, and found the "how-to-geek" one right at the top of the results, and I looked it over, and it had the correct information, with easy-to-follow pictures, so I posted it for him, saying something like, "there are lots of guides to install homebrew, but here is an easy one to follow." I just wanted to get him started, and that guide would have been fine to get him the homebrew channel so he could run Nintendont. I also mentioned that bootmii was something he wouldn't need to worry about unless he wanted to go into the deeper levels of hacking involving cios, loaders, themes, etc.
(here is the article I'm referring to: https://www.howtogeek.com/210185/how-to-install-the-homebrew-channel-on-a-nintendo-wii-the-easy-way/ )
Then later someone said like, "don't use that guide, it's wrong. use wii.guide" with a link to the that home page. And despite what everyone says, that is not an easier route to get to just installing the Homebrew channel, since you have to look for and click through multiple links/pages to get to that part, and it does not have all the step-by-step pictures walking through everything you need to do on the wii (more of wii.guide is plain text, which I'm not saying is too difficult, but pictures for every step makes it easier for a noob).... So I told Rockman, no, the link I gave was fine, you can use that, and I said that I had looked it over and it had the correct information. Then someone said, "without even looking at that link, I can tell it's wrong," and I was like, "are you psychic?" And the other person was like, "it's incorrect" and I simply asked, "what is incorrect about it?" They said something about how it makes it seem like there are only disc exploits and that it doesn't even mention bootmii, and both those things are factually incorrect, which I pointed out and was then instantly banned, without warning.
I honestly had no idea who the people were that I was talking to (I hadn't even paid attention that any of them were moderators), or who it was had banned me. At that point I hadn't even made a note of Rockman's name. As a side issue, Rockman had just been kicked from the server (but not banned) by pinging the guy whose name was "do not ping," because Rockman thought it was meant as a joke.
So I just decided to look for another wii homebrew discord to use. I really didn't even use "Nintendo Hacks 2.5" that often, but I would occasionally peek in there and answer any easy questions, if I could be helpful. So, a little bit later, right after I had found and joined the WiiHacks discord (which didn't seem active at all at the time), Rockman sent me a friend request (I guess he appreciated my help). That's when he explained that he thought "do not ping" was meant as a joke. We only briefly mentioned what had happened in the other server, and he commented about the moderators, "I guess they are teen." (I think he's German, judging by a screenshot he shared of his desktop, so he's not a native English speaker). He then asked, "If there is a serious server, invite me." So I told him I had just found the WiiHacks one, so he joined it too.
So, no, I had no idea the same people would be moderators in both servers. I don't even know what people I was talking to in NH2.5, and I certainly didn't know what their names were in any other server. I was not planning to say ANYTHING about NH2.5. I was just looking for another server to chat in. But then when activity did start up in the general channel of WiiHacks, I saw people were already talking about me... and the waters were clearly being poisoned as to what kind of person to expect me to be. You didn't know anything about what had happened, but they had you asking, "Oh. Are they here to cause trouble?" And your moderator "it never rains," within the same minute, says, "yeah that's what i was thinking." Though later in the chat when I pointed that out, he was like, "how do you know i was responding to that. i never quoted a specific message." I mean, really? There's nothing else in the context of the earlier reply that even makes sense that he would be replying to....
But yeah, you and everyone else in the room were geared up to confront a troublemaker, and that's how everyone acted toward me.
Yeah, I'm going to go over most of that conversation again, even though you were there... but you did not see it from my point of view; you saw it from a skewed "your group of friends confronting a known troublemaker" point of view.
When I saw I was being talked about in that way, I thought I should simply state my case to show that (I thought) it was pretty much a misunderstanding that I got banned for no good reason, and introduce myself as a wii developer. But then I was immediately criticized by "balls," who made false claims: "the 'no good reason' was you were forcing an outdated old tutorial on users that didnt cover grounds necessary for modding the wii" (I wasn't "forcing" anything on anyone. Sounds really bad to say I was "forcing" it on someone, huh?) and "the simple fact was it was outdated, like many tutorials out there" (sure, but it contained the correct information for installing Letterbomb, which was all it needed) and "you were pushing so hard it made the user question ALL guides validity, including up to date ones" (this is just ridiculous -- earlier, when a different person in the channel was talking about wii.guide, I even said, "yes, that site contains ALLLLL the information, but for just the simple instructions for getting the homebrew channel, this one is fine"). I'm guessing "balls" may have been the mod who banned me, and he was intent on painting me as the villain.... At least that's sure how it seems. Could have just as easily been the other mod.
So all I did then was to post a link to the actual guide and ask a neutral party to read over it and see that it had the correct information, while "balls" kept saying it was wrong (again, after people -- possibly him -- were saying, "I haven't even read it but I know it's wrong").
"balls" started with the insults here, saying that "everyone here with half a braincell will back that up," and it's clear this is intended to demean my intelligence -- this is not just some innocent turn of phrase.
"it never rains" criticized the guide by saying, "it's not in 5 languages." Come on.... And the ridiculous criticisms just continued, "it doesn't contain all the OTHER information that it doesn't contain," "it wasn't updated since 2017," "it makes people think there aren't other exploits, like bannerbomb," (seriously? bannerbomb hasn't worked for ages, and he's specifically mentioning that as a way to attack a Letterbomb guide?) "OTHER pages on how-to-geek are very wrong."
And "it never rains" then calls me "stupid" in no uncertain terms, "at this point any way you try to defend this guide just makes you look stupid."
You can look at EVERYTHING I said, and it was all civil, just like your Rule 1 calls for. And I wasn't "defending this guide" even half as hard as they were attacking it. I was just pointing out the facts -- that it was a simple guide that did one simple thing in what I thought a very straight-forward way. If I even used any words that seemed uncivil, it was when I was referencing the things other people were saying about me.
I wasn't even trying to continue the argument, which I never intended to even bring up when I joined your server, and I kept trying to wrap it up, just saying that Rockman was fine with that guide, and it was easy to understand, and he wasn't looking to follow a bunch of other links on that site to any of the other outdated guides they were complaining about.
But THEY were not willing to let it go. Andy says, "it's wrong objectively." balls says, "how do you know he isnt going to follow any other links? and how do you know he isnt doing any of that other stuff?
you dont." And he just continues the attack, making some strained analogy about Henry Ford working on a Tesla??
And I was like, ok, fine, let's just ask Rockman, so I pinged him with the question about if he just was going to start by installing Letterbomb and not following a bunch of other links on that site.
Then you stepped in and asked me, "Please don't bring your argument to our community, please." You asked this of ME, but I reiterate that I was trying to wrap it up and THEY just refused to let it go. They were the ones in the first place bringing me up as someone who had been banned, so that I even felt I had to mention why that had happened. I pointed that out to you in the chat -- that I was replying to them. I never intended to bring my argument there. At that point, "balls" was STILL going on about it. And he and "it never rains" did not stop.
And then you simply said, "The people you had issue with unfortunately have tenure and respect here.... So coming here you kinda should have expected it.."
No, I did not expect it. I said in the server that I had no idea that the same people would be there (and I still didn't know at that point -- I had no idea who had been talking in the NH2.5 server - the names were different). Then "balls" says, "that's on you" and that I should have known since this was the most popular wii hacking server. Well, I didn't know that either. I'm not that active in the scene. Why do I even have to defend myself against this -- yes -- bullying? It's my own fault for not knowing who everyone is and what servers they moderate?
Then you said, "And... Had you started on this community, you prolly would have gotten booted from here first.." So here you are, marginalizing their behavior and blaming me, when I had been nothing but civil, and they had not. Making me feel like I'm the inferior person, who deserves to be banned from your server as well.
And THEY, not me, just kept at it. So apparently it's my fault for not knowing this is the most popular wii discord, with over 1000 users, which I must have found on the wiihacks reddit... and "Paranoia" is gaslighting me, "youre obviously doing something wrong if everyone is disagreeing with you no matter where you go"
I was STILL trying to let it go. I was. But Andy then asks me a straight question about that guide and why I was recommending it, and if I was involved in writing it. I replied to him, while prefacing my reply with, "I was told not to bring my argument here but you keep asking," (I was making it clear that I HAD heard you, and wasn't just ignoring your request) and I just left the very simple reply about why I had suggested that guide, and that I had nothing to do with writing it.
And then they -- not me, again -- KEPT GOING ON AND ON about how I should have instead used wii.guide....
So I'm just trying to put a period on the discussion, and I say, "well, the how-to geek article was right there at the top when I search for 'how to install homebrew channel.' Literally the first link on Bing, other than Wiibrew, and that's why I suggested it."
And then they attack me even on THIS SIMPLE STATEMENT! They started going out of their way to post search results, and "phœg," using a slightly different search term, posts his different search results, saying of my claim that it was at the top of Bing, "That's just a lie."
Now tell me, why? Why did I keep getting attacked for every little thing I would say, including a simple statement that the how-to-geek article was at the top of the search results in Bing? It's because the room was poisoned against me from the start -- me, the expected troublemaker -- before I have even said one word. And so that's how I was treated -- like every little thing I said was probably a lie. Like I must have ulterior motives. I must be a troll. I deserve to be treated like crap.
Again you post in the chat, "Why is this argument still going on?
" And I'm saying again now: Not because of me.
They continued posting different screenshots of search results to try and prove I was lying about it being at the top of Bing... Just WHY? Why do I deserve such petty attacks on my character over something so ridiculous? I guess because everyone was primed to treat me as a troublemaking troll. Nobody should feel bad mistreating a lesser person like that, right?
Then the guy finally uses the exact search term I said I used, and shows another screenshot (which conveniently cuts off after the first result), saying, "Well then in that case [the top result in Bing is] WiiBrew." To which I replied, "like I said, other than wiibrew (but I don't find wiibrew's guide very good) but thanks for calling me a liar." Even here I was civil.
At that point they kept going on about Bing.... And Rockman finally showed up and answered my earlier question of him -- in regard to me being challenged "how do you know what he will do?" Rockman just says, "Yeah" in response to my question, basically affirming he was going to use the guide just as I had said without following a bunch of other guides on the how-to geek site.
And at that point I'm saying, "I honestly don't get all the drama about this." Again, I was just trying to end it. I wasn't continuing the argument that EVERYONE ELSE seemed intent on keeping going (while placing all the blame on me).
I quoted Paranoia and said that I agreed with him -- he said he read the guide and that it was fine for the basic homebrew process, but that it didn't cover a lot of other stuff. I thanked him for actually looking it over and not just automatically saying it was wrong. Seriously, this exchange should have been the WHOLE argument. This was ALL that needed to be said. And it was actually civil. I agreed with what he said.
But were the mods going to let it go? Nope. "it never rains" then comes up with another pretty ridiculous argument, "if you're only going to install homebrew channel and not follow any other links, i wonder how you're going to use the homebrew channel?" and balls quoted him on it.
I mean, come on.... Is this serious? "it never rains" keeps on point, "but where will you get the apps? it links somewhere else to get them and you're not following any other links"
Rockman himself tried to speak up a couple times about this, saying, "it's a guide. I can find in wii hombrew site"
Then "it never rains" accuses Rockman of being a liar too, saying, "oh, so you're not only using that and not going anywhere else. so basically you lied"
And again THEY just kept going on and on about it.
Rockman replied to the above just by saying, "I don’t understand what is the problem"
And they kept talking about how how-to-geek's other wii pages had broken links -- but none of those other pages had anything to do with the simple Letterbomb guide.... so I make a simple statement about that, saying, "you're all taking about stuff that isn't in the guide..... Obviously when Rockman was ready to move on to something else, he would not be stuck on that page."
And of course I get challenged on this point too, because everything I say has to be attacked. "balls" says, "are you rockman? how would you know he wouldnt get stuck on that page? you didnt tell him to go anywhere else after following the 'basics'"
I mean, seriously, come on. Like Rockman is going to get stuck on a web page.....
Do I really need to keep pointing this stuff out? Have I painted enough of this picture? No, the picture isn't actually done yet. I'll continue.
I was then answering a question someone asked me about how I installed homebrew on my own wii, and then
Paranoia (apt nickname -- yes, that's a joke) says, "imposor sussy" (see?).
At that point I was saying I would further help Rockman if he got to the end of that guide and needed more help, and guess what? This statement was even criticized.... "why not use a guide that doesn't require babysitting?" Gee, I'm so sorry I was willing to help someone....
Then I pointed out that they were all talking for Rockman (all the statement about how he would be helpless, etc, if he followed that guide then would be stuck on that page....), and I said we could just ask him to speak for himself and let us know what he thought about what guides were easy to understand... and of course I get attacked on this statement too.
Paranoia continues, "i doubt its a different guy tbh"
"Balls" commented on me saying that obviously Rockman wouldn't be stuck on that page when he was ready to move on to something else, saying that this was, "the definition of speaking for someone" (recall that I had JUST said we should ask Rockman himself). I simply replied that it was just common sense.... at which point "balls" says, "your logic is so fucking flawed you are the living definition of a hypocrite."
"balls" continued saying it's not common sense for someone who has never touched homebrew, and I again said that we can just ask him, to let him speak for himself.
Then I was asking if the foul language was allowed, really more to point out that it WAS being used against me.... Someone said that it's allowed, but not if it's directed at someone to hurt them. Then "balls" jumps in to insist that he didn't do it to hurt me and nobody else would say he did (this is absolutely gaslighting -- (this is not a direct quote, but an example of what was being done): "what?? Nooo, of course me saying it was not to hurt you -- nobody would think that. You're crazy if you think that." And he immediately jumps to attack the next thing I said, calling it a load of bullshit (talking about things I had said in NH2.5, which has apparently all been deleted since I got banned... by HIM, I think?), and saying I was lying, and that I never said that (in the other channel), meanwhile, again, EVERYONE ELSE had continued to go on and on about this while I wasn't saying anything.
When I came back, I only replied to "balls" earlier claim by saying, "oh no, who would ever be offended by being called a hypocrite with fucking flawed logic? and a liar, earlier...."
And then Andy comes in with, "Just ignore him. This man is a classic troll. It’s not about being right, it’s about taking your time"
And "balls" continues with the insults and gaslighting, "its not offensive if its true." (so, it's perfectly ok to use foul language and call me names... because it's TRUE) and "if you take offense to a fact, thats your own pride getting in the way" (did this guy take a course on gaslighting?)
Paranoia says, "literally just ban him from all the big homebrew servers and even the little ones, if hes in those" (Yes, of course, I'm the troublemaking troll and I deserve to be banned from ALL the communities, and nobody should feel bad about the way they are treating me. I'm a lesser person).
And I say, "hm, yes, such a welcoming community." Hoping you people would see the way you were treating me (and Rockman for that matter).... but no.... I tried to say, "I'm not troll. I speak the truth."
"balls" says, "you speak lies and hypocracy, so if thats your deffinition of 'truth'"
You said, "He doesn't seem to wanna stay..."
phoeg said, "You took a shit on the welcome mat when you came in, pal."
"it never rains" said, "Here, I'll be welcoming. You're welcome to leave"
I tried to point out that I was a wii homebrew developer (due to the troll accusations), but of course I get challegned on this too (because, again, the room was primed to treat me this way). "balls" demanded, "oh yeah? what homebrew? please link" (because, obviously, everything I say must be treated as a lie...).
"it never rains" starts in on the troll accusations, "yknow..we haven't seen rockman and mr reaper type at the same time"
When I replied to phoeg's claims that I took a shit on the welcome mat, I pointed out how I was being painted as a troublemaker before I said anything, and "balls" plays innocent, "we never claimed you made trouble" and phœg says, "People were concerned because of what happened in the other server."
This sounds like some Fox News stuff, like, "oh no, we were just asking questions. We were just WONDERING if you were coming here to cause trouble," which just puts that thought into everyone's head....
And then Paranoia goes on with the paranoia, "i think its his alt. they were both made in the same time. like one week difference."
Because, of course, I must be a troll and deserve this treatment, so they have to check everything about me to confirm their bias.
Does it look suspicious that my and Rockman's accounts were made close to the same time? I guess so. But why the hell would I hang out in NH2.5 over the course of a few days and ask a bunch of noob questions with a sock puppet account and then, hours or a day later, answer those questions with a different account?? Ain't nobody got time for that. I assume "balls" and "rains" should have known that, since they were apparently in the other server....
Actually, at this point in the conversation, when "balls" and Paranoia were posting our User IDs and join dates, "it never rains" actually pointed out that "balls" technically had said I made trouble, in response to his earlier claim of innocence in that regard.
Paranoia then said, "hes broken rule 1 multiple times. at this point just ban him. all hes doing is causing trouble."
Now, please point out when *I* had broken your Rule 1? I was about the only one who hadn't done so.
I know I don't really need to cite your own Rule 1 at you, but OH MY GOSH....
"Rule 1: Be Civil - This is a social safe-space, meaning that if you say something mean or critical, you will be called out for it. There are sensitive people here, please be respectful of everyone."
Of course, "balls" jokes and demonstrates just how impotent your Rule 1 actually is... "to be honest if rule1 was put into force to the T we would all be banned."
And here you speak up, "I'm just a bit taken a back that someone would expect less than apprehension when joining a community under those circumstances...."
Except, of course, by "those circumstances" you are only referring to the poisoned, vague image of me that was casually tossed around or implied before I had said a single thing in your server... since you had no clue about what had happened in the other server, other than what you were lead to imagine based on your moderators preemptively casting doubt about my character and intentions. And you're joining in on basically saying I should have expected to be treated this way. I was met with far more than "apprehension;" I was met with overt hostility, to the point where EVERY SINGLE THING I said was being relentlessly assaulted, down to being called a liar just for stating what search result Bing had showed me! How does anyone not immediately call this out as bullying?? Meanwhile I remained civil the WHOLE time. And excuse me for not knowing that the same moderators would be in both servers, because I honestly did not. And I certainly didn't expect that they would start poisoning the waters about me before I said a single word.... And that's exactly what happened. It was not just innocently "asking questions" to start mentioning me the way they did. I never stood a chance.
Yeah, don't worry, we have arrived at the end of this. This is when you told Paranoia, in regard to his call to ban me, "Please. Don't tell us how to run this place." Am I wrong to say that this looks more like you being offended that someone was telling you what to do, rather than you chiding someone who was calling for the ban of another person, because that would be pretty unfriendly and make the other person feel like he wasn't welcome?
Then I said my final things (that Rockman and I were not the same person), and let it end. Someone else had come into the server anyway, and started talking about something else (well, technically, everyone ELSE finally let it end, and started talking to the new guy). HE actually received a "welcome." I certainly did not, but I'm told I should have expected to have been treated this way. Or am I just being "too sensitive" about all of this? Check your Rule 1. Or just read some of the things I quoted above, and imagine they are being said about you, and see how that makes you feel. Be sure to tell yourself, "I should have expected this treatment, like everyone keeps telling me. I guess I deserve it."
But here is the final bookend. I looked back later, and saw you joking in your server, "You guys making sure no one is feeling welcome?"
Har har. Isn't that hilarious? Just joke about how I had been bullied. Write it off as no big deal -- it's funny! You and your friends sure gave the new troll guy the what-for! Be proud of yourselves.
Your words, from your anti-bullying reddit post:
"And just to re-iterate; IF ANY OF THE STAFF OF RWIIHACKS IS CAUGHT DEFENDING OR MARGINALIZING BULLY BEHAVIOR, IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
"Please report this behavior if you see it. To the admin staff, or, if you think necessary, Reddit admin.
"If I do it. Call me out, civilly. Accusing me of being a bully with a sound argument and not just a 'I know you are but what am I' mentality will get you a conversation.
"There's no better way to get me to perk up.
"Fuck Bullies and the communities that foster them."
It is really, really easy to say "Fuck Bullies" when you are imagining them as evil faceless internet trolls. It's not so easy to call them out -- or even recognize them -- when they are your friends. Or yourself.
I won't go so far to say that you were so much actively part of the bullying, but you were part of the marginalizing. "And the communities that foster them."
I feel almost ridiculous having to say this, but:
I am a real person. This was the way your server treated a real person. And I did not deserve to be treated that way, no matter how much gaslighting of "you should have expected this" gets repeated. And you know what else? Rockman didn't deserve to be called a liar either. He is an actual legitimate new guy in the community, and this is how he gets treated. I actually apologized to him later, saying, "Sorry to drag you into an even worse server."
Now, to the end point, if that wasn't it. Why did I bother to do this? I was ready to just write your community off as "must be teens" like Rockman thought -- as just another all-too-typical toxic internet chat room. But then I came across your strong anti-bullying reddit post, and thought, "where was THAT guy when we needed him...?"
But the main impetus for writing to you was in your opening paragraphs of that post:
"Anyone who's been around me for any amount of time will know that when drama happens around me, and involves me, I become hyper-introspective on the topic.
On the topic of Bullying, Harassing, and feeling like you can participate in a community without becoming targeted by it....."
... I had to stop just now and reflect on "targeted" for a moment... Yeah... I never stood a chance.
But here's the word that originally popped out at me: "Hyper-introspective."
THAT is why I write to you. Not just as an attack or accusation or guilt-trip. But because I hope this will make you engage in some honest self-reflection, since you say that is part of who you are. Those words made me think you may be receptive to this, rather than "just a teen" who likely would not be. So I wrote this.
And after this? I expect nothing. Not that I'm saying I expect to be ignored (though that's always a possibility), but just that I don't do this with any intent to get a reply or resolution. You're not required to. I do things like this simply because I sometimes feel I just need to say what needs to be said, and so I do. Catharsis. No, that makes it sound selfish. It's not just for myself. If that were the case, I could just yell it to the stars. I can only send my words out and hope they find their mark. I, too, am introspective. I am also brutally honest. Do want you want with my words, or let them evaporate into internet oblivion.
But my part is played. It's not up to me to do any more than that, or to expect any more than that. And you know what? I take pride that I have the character to write and send this (because, seriously, who the hell would even do something like this? XD ).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
So, I pasted that letter into a Discord message to BloodyThorn, with the title "Bullying."
His reply? "Yeah dude, no intention of reading that, sorry."
This despite him stating that people should go to him directly with any bullying issues, and insisting that his server is a "safe space...." But he just decided to ignore my complaint completely. Again, I am treated as someone who deserves no consideration whatsoever.
The Next Issue Arises; So it's Not Just Me.
-------------------------------------------
There wasn't much more I could do at that point, and I wasn't really planning to. But then, not long after, out of nowhere, another Wii Homebrew developer (who I only chat with once in a while), came to me complaining about the moderators of the WiiHacks reddit.... He said, "the mods over at WiiHacks literally hate the Open Shop Channel but never promote homebrew. its all wads and pirates."
He was referring to this post on the WiiHacks reddit, and he was chatting with one of the maintainers of the Open Shop Channel about it:
https://old.reddit.com/r/WiiHacks/comments/obes6r/has_oschbb_always_been_as_bad_as_they_currently/
In that post, they are very dismissive and pretty insulting to wii homebrew (BloodyThorn flat out said that there are only 4-10 good homebrew apps, and the rest are rubbish. Ya know, a lot of people put a lot of work into a lot of wii homebrew, and even if they aren't all top-quality games, he's being a real jerk to call all that work "rubbish." What has he done?). And actually I think the original Hombrew Channel was really innovative and useful, when it was being maintained in the early days of Homebrew.
It really does seem that the WiiHacks leadership just doesn't care about any homebrew except wads and loaders and the pirate stuff....
The guy I was chatting with summed up his thoughts on the matter:
"the wiihacks guys are old men that like to gatekeep."
"The real problem they have is that Open Shop Channel/hbb takes people away from wiihacks. If you have every app at your finger tips you dont need wiihacks. So they wont promote it while they will help random people install wads and game hacks."
He also complained that if you post a link to Wiibrew on WiiHacks, it gets deleted as spam... and,
"They are now the biggest wii reddit and they will gatekeep it forever. Even gbatemp is a better forum. I would never send anyone to wiihacks."
There was more involved than just that reddit post; you can see in there that the maintainer of the Open Shop Channel tried to post and defend his homebrew. He also went into WiiHacks discord and tried to ask them about what problems they specifically had with the OSC, so that he could fix them... but mostly they said, "we don't actually use it, but we would never recommend it to anyone." They did offer to send any bug reports his way, or to set up a channel in their server for him....
I'm not familiar with everything else that went on, but after a while the issue came back up again on the WiiHacks subreddit, with BloodyThorn going out of his way to tell people not to use the Open Shop Channel. His original post made more claims of harassment and accused the OSC team being childish, but he later edited the post to remove most of the inflammatory statements. Here is the post now; it even notes at the top that it was edited:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WiiHacks/comments/p90xgd/why_we_recommend_you_do_not_use_the_homebrew/
Part of the conflict seems to be that the WiiHacks people, as previously shown, do not like the OSC and do not allow it to be discussed on the WiiHacks subreddit, so someone on the OSC Discord posted a banner there suggesting that people not go to WiiHacks for help with the Wii.
Now, it's not as if we wii homebrew developers have any kind of group that gets together and makes plans to boycott the WiiHacks community. We are each determining on our own that WiiHacks is not a good community to send people to for help. The WiiHacks leadership is earning that distinction on their own. It's only natural that the OSC people would steer users away from WiiHacks, after WiiHacks has already made it clear they don't allow discussion about the OSC on their subreddit, and are pretty hostile toward it.
It looks like most of the commenters in that reddit thread were pushing back against BloodyThorn's position. They call him out for just needlessly going out of his way to bash a piece of homebrew. Even after his edit to that post, he makes the claim that OSC discord was encouraging their users to harass WiiHacks, but one of the OSC people posted there challenging him on that point, saying they've asked him to provide details or evidence, but he has not done so.
So that is where things stand. I don't know much more about the WiiHack vs OSC conflict, as I am not in the OSC Discord server. But obviously from my perspective it looks like the fault lies with the WiiHacks leadership.
At this point I think I have shown the evidence as to why I say these things, so that this will not just be seen as baseless name-calling:
They are toxic bullies who do not uphold their own anti-bullying rules, and have no problem making others feel like lesser people. They are gatekeepers who are completely dismissive toward homebrew which they deem as rubbish (which is apparently all homebrew except 4-10 apps).
In any case, even though I am not involved with the OSC, after seeing these later issues arise, I decided to share my own story, since I saw it was not just me having issues. I don't enjoy getting into this drama, but at the same time I can't sit back and not speak up about this after the treatment I received just because I was trying to be helpful to a homebrew noob (and if anyone wondered, Rockman did get himself all up and running with all the homebrew he wanted -- I continued to help him through direct messages).
I can only end by quoting BloodyThorn's own words again. Even though I, personally, would not go so far as to use this language myself, I quote him for the irony:
"Fuck Bullies and the communities that foster them."
If anyone actually read through all this to the end... What are you crazy??
But thanks for reading.
I have decided to speak out publicly about the toxic bullying behavior I received from the leadership of the WiiHacks community, in their Discord server. Maybe nobody will read this, because it's quite long, but I'm putting it out there anyway, as sort of an "open letter."
I originally attempted to contact BloodyThorn (the owner of the WiiHacks subreddit and Discord) with my complaint about bullying, but he flatly refused to hear it, even though he presents himself as an anti-bullying crusader.
You want a TLDR version? I'm afraid that's not easily possible, because it's a complicated situation. Basically, moderators from WiiHacks banned me from a different Discord server (Nintendo Hacks 2.5) where they were also moderators, for having a disagreement with them, then greeted me with overt hostility, including obscenities, when I joined the WiiHacks Discord not knowing the same moderators would be there as well.
BloodyThorn stood by and let them do it, even justifying their behavior, despite having strongly-worded server rules about not harassing people.
At first I thought that maybe I was the only one having problems with the moderators of WiiHacks, but more recent events have revealed that I am not the only one having issues with them, so I'm bringing my issue out for public view. (I will go over some of those additional issues after I describe my own experience.)
Now, who am I? I am not anyone important. I have been involved in Wii Homebrew development. I only have what appears to be 9 posts on GBAtemp... but that's deceptive, since I have actually posted quite a bit more than that. I thought it was funny to keep my post count below 10 so that I would appear as an eternal noob, so I have only posted in the Edge of the Forum, where posts don't count, but if you look at my user statistics, you'll notice that I have way more likes and XP than could be accumulated from 9 posts.
So, now I have to go back to the beginning, and this will be long. But I had already written out this complaint in a letter to BloodyThorn, so I will just paste that whole thing in here. To be clear, the people I will keep referring to are the moderators/admins of the WiiHacks Discord, though their usernames will have changed by now.
Those moderators/admins referred to are:
"it never rains" = WiiMaster7071
"balls" = pentium#1474
"phoeg" = shrek#7532
"andy" = andyrogi#1812
and of course "BloodyThorn" is the owner, bloodythorn#9259
There were a couple other users in the discussion as well, but I don't think they had any special roles in the server.
And here is the complaint I tried to send to BloodyThorn. I did not hold back, but I remained civil, which is more than can be said for how they had treated me.
I also saved a copy of the raw chat log, if the reader wants to follow along and verify that I am relaying the facts and quotations accurately. That log is here:
https://tinyvast.com/Discord_Save/
The letter below will tell more than you will get from the raw log though.
Again, this was written to BloodyThorn:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
So, I am "Mr. Reaper."
I would not have bothered to contact you, except I had looked at the rules on your discord server (Rule 1), and wondered why such rules are even written when they don't seem to apply or be enforced when the bullying is being inflicted by the moderators. I figured it would be pointless to lodge any complaints, because who can you complain to when the people who are supposed to protect you are the ones attacking you?
But then I wondered if there were similar rules for the actual WiiHacks reddit, and I found this post, and was rather surprised to find such a strong anti-bullying statement written by you, when you had just sat by and let it happen to me. Reading some of your comments in that thread, I can only wonder, "where was THAT guy yesterday? It sure would have been nice if someone like HIM were in charge of that server...."
Seriously, re-read your comments all through this thread and apply it to the interaction that happened under your watch, in your discord server:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WiiHacks/comments/lt2beq/offtopic_bullying_harassing_and_safe_spaces/
I don't say this as an attack, but as a flat statement of honesty: you have fallen short of your own words.
So far this may seem like it's just going to be an attack, but it is not.
Yes, I feel I was absolutely bullied. I was made to feel like crap. It started before I had even said one word in your server. They started poisoning the waters against me by implying that I was coming there to cause trouble, so everyone just automatically started treating me like a troll, as if I deserved to be made to feel inferior. In your own words: "... that's the nature of bullying. It's purpose is to demean and make people feel bad and inferior."
If I were just some troll I wouldn't go to the trouble of writing this message to you (and I expect it will end up being long, because I always write things in great detail). I don't know if you will just write me off as "playing the victim" or what, but I'm going to write my thoughts and feelings anyway.
Now, after seeing that you were the one writing the rules about civility and anti-bullying, I looked back over the chat and found that you were not among those being uncivil... but you were (mostly) tolerating and normalizing their behavior. Your reddit post says this: "And just to re-iterate; IF ANY OF THE STAFF OF RWIIHACKS IS CAUGHT DEFENDING OR MARGINALIZING BULLY BEHAVIOR, IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED."
I won't just make that claim without pointing out the specific examples which I feel it applies to. But I'm going to go back and start at the beginning first.
To start, I am not a troll, or a liar, or someone looking to cause trouble, as I was repeatedly accused of yesterday. (And I realize I will keep saying "yesterday" even though by the time I get this written and checked over and sent, it might no longer be "yesterday," but I'm sure there will be no confusion about what day I am referring to).
I am an actual Wii homebrew developer -- I don't go around pointing that out (because I have not created much), except people were accusing me of just being a troll/troublemaker, and I was just trying to point out that I am a contributing member of the community. I think my Visual Controller Test app is used by a lot of people. I also made a decent game (Harmony's Nightmare) and a couple other little apps for amusement.
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/User:Mr._Reaper
I also help Owen with his apps, and he's still making Wii Homebrew to this day. I've currently been helping him with NewoZero, his latest game. You can see he lists me as a "Contributor" on the Wiibrew page for that game: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Newo_Zero (though if you want to try it, you should get the latest test build from his GBAtemp thread, since it has more fixes and improvements. Or just look up a youtube video of it -- some people are really getting into it -- it is one of his best games, if not the best one so far). In the title card for NewoZero, he gives me full credit for "Controls" because I helped him with the analog steering and acceleration controls in the game (since I'm the Controller Test guy...), but I have contributed much more than that to the game. Owen would say so himself, but HE is really the one doing all the hardcore work on the game. I also did the story script for his NewoAsteroids game, and provided other help and suggestions for that: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Newo_Asteroids
Looks like he's good about crediting his "Contributors" in his game pages. I've helped with lots of his other games too, though not in major ways, but I'm sure I'm listed in many of their title screens as a playtester. Not that being a playtester is a big deal, but it is valuable. Back when WiiBrew was active and many people were creating homebrew, I did a lot of testing and bug reports to help other developers make their games better.
But you know what? Why should I even have to state my credentials to prove that I don't deserve to be treated like a lesser person? I really shouldn't, but I've been made to feel like I have to.
No, I'm nobody important, with my little homebrew apps (I'm being serious -- I know my contributions are nothing spectacular, yet they are not worthless either).
So, what happened in the Nintendo Hacks 2.5 server? Barely anything. Rockman, who I do not know, had started posting questions about homebrew and gamecube games on the wii and controller options, over the course of a couple days. I was answering questions for him over a couple days (and other people were even quoting some of my replies when he asked something similar, perhaps not having seeing my answer the day before. Then Rockman said he'd never "jailbroken his wii" in the context of using Nintendont, wanting to use a USB controller on his black wii (no GC ports) for gamecube games, so he seemed like a complete beginner in homebrew. So I wanted to help him get started in the easiest way possible, with just getting the homebrew channel using Letterbomb (probably the simplest, most widely-used exploit). I did a quick Bing search to look for the simplest guide, and found the "how-to-geek" one right at the top of the results, and I looked it over, and it had the correct information, with easy-to-follow pictures, so I posted it for him, saying something like, "there are lots of guides to install homebrew, but here is an easy one to follow." I just wanted to get him started, and that guide would have been fine to get him the homebrew channel so he could run Nintendont. I also mentioned that bootmii was something he wouldn't need to worry about unless he wanted to go into the deeper levels of hacking involving cios, loaders, themes, etc.
(here is the article I'm referring to: https://www.howtogeek.com/210185/how-to-install-the-homebrew-channel-on-a-nintendo-wii-the-easy-way/ )
Then later someone said like, "don't use that guide, it's wrong. use wii.guide" with a link to the that home page. And despite what everyone says, that is not an easier route to get to just installing the Homebrew channel, since you have to look for and click through multiple links/pages to get to that part, and it does not have all the step-by-step pictures walking through everything you need to do on the wii (more of wii.guide is plain text, which I'm not saying is too difficult, but pictures for every step makes it easier for a noob).... So I told Rockman, no, the link I gave was fine, you can use that, and I said that I had looked it over and it had the correct information. Then someone said, "without even looking at that link, I can tell it's wrong," and I was like, "are you psychic?" And the other person was like, "it's incorrect" and I simply asked, "what is incorrect about it?" They said something about how it makes it seem like there are only disc exploits and that it doesn't even mention bootmii, and both those things are factually incorrect, which I pointed out and was then instantly banned, without warning.
I honestly had no idea who the people were that I was talking to (I hadn't even paid attention that any of them were moderators), or who it was had banned me. At that point I hadn't even made a note of Rockman's name. As a side issue, Rockman had just been kicked from the server (but not banned) by pinging the guy whose name was "do not ping," because Rockman thought it was meant as a joke.
So I just decided to look for another wii homebrew discord to use. I really didn't even use "Nintendo Hacks 2.5" that often, but I would occasionally peek in there and answer any easy questions, if I could be helpful. So, a little bit later, right after I had found and joined the WiiHacks discord (which didn't seem active at all at the time), Rockman sent me a friend request (I guess he appreciated my help). That's when he explained that he thought "do not ping" was meant as a joke. We only briefly mentioned what had happened in the other server, and he commented about the moderators, "I guess they are teen." (I think he's German, judging by a screenshot he shared of his desktop, so he's not a native English speaker). He then asked, "If there is a serious server, invite me." So I told him I had just found the WiiHacks one, so he joined it too.
So, no, I had no idea the same people would be moderators in both servers. I don't even know what people I was talking to in NH2.5, and I certainly didn't know what their names were in any other server. I was not planning to say ANYTHING about NH2.5. I was just looking for another server to chat in. But then when activity did start up in the general channel of WiiHacks, I saw people were already talking about me... and the waters were clearly being poisoned as to what kind of person to expect me to be. You didn't know anything about what had happened, but they had you asking, "Oh. Are they here to cause trouble?" And your moderator "it never rains," within the same minute, says, "yeah that's what i was thinking." Though later in the chat when I pointed that out, he was like, "how do you know i was responding to that. i never quoted a specific message." I mean, really? There's nothing else in the context of the earlier reply that even makes sense that he would be replying to....
But yeah, you and everyone else in the room were geared up to confront a troublemaker, and that's how everyone acted toward me.
Yeah, I'm going to go over most of that conversation again, even though you were there... but you did not see it from my point of view; you saw it from a skewed "your group of friends confronting a known troublemaker" point of view.
When I saw I was being talked about in that way, I thought I should simply state my case to show that (I thought) it was pretty much a misunderstanding that I got banned for no good reason, and introduce myself as a wii developer. But then I was immediately criticized by "balls," who made false claims: "the 'no good reason' was you were forcing an outdated old tutorial on users that didnt cover grounds necessary for modding the wii" (I wasn't "forcing" anything on anyone. Sounds really bad to say I was "forcing" it on someone, huh?) and "the simple fact was it was outdated, like many tutorials out there" (sure, but it contained the correct information for installing Letterbomb, which was all it needed) and "you were pushing so hard it made the user question ALL guides validity, including up to date ones" (this is just ridiculous -- earlier, when a different person in the channel was talking about wii.guide, I even said, "yes, that site contains ALLLLL the information, but for just the simple instructions for getting the homebrew channel, this one is fine"). I'm guessing "balls" may have been the mod who banned me, and he was intent on painting me as the villain.... At least that's sure how it seems. Could have just as easily been the other mod.
So all I did then was to post a link to the actual guide and ask a neutral party to read over it and see that it had the correct information, while "balls" kept saying it was wrong (again, after people -- possibly him -- were saying, "I haven't even read it but I know it's wrong").
"balls" started with the insults here, saying that "everyone here with half a braincell will back that up," and it's clear this is intended to demean my intelligence -- this is not just some innocent turn of phrase.
"it never rains" criticized the guide by saying, "it's not in 5 languages." Come on.... And the ridiculous criticisms just continued, "it doesn't contain all the OTHER information that it doesn't contain," "it wasn't updated since 2017," "it makes people think there aren't other exploits, like bannerbomb," (seriously? bannerbomb hasn't worked for ages, and he's specifically mentioning that as a way to attack a Letterbomb guide?) "OTHER pages on how-to-geek are very wrong."
And "it never rains" then calls me "stupid" in no uncertain terms, "at this point any way you try to defend this guide just makes you look stupid."
You can look at EVERYTHING I said, and it was all civil, just like your Rule 1 calls for. And I wasn't "defending this guide" even half as hard as they were attacking it. I was just pointing out the facts -- that it was a simple guide that did one simple thing in what I thought a very straight-forward way. If I even used any words that seemed uncivil, it was when I was referencing the things other people were saying about me.
I wasn't even trying to continue the argument, which I never intended to even bring up when I joined your server, and I kept trying to wrap it up, just saying that Rockman was fine with that guide, and it was easy to understand, and he wasn't looking to follow a bunch of other links on that site to any of the other outdated guides they were complaining about.
But THEY were not willing to let it go. Andy says, "it's wrong objectively." balls says, "how do you know he isnt going to follow any other links? and how do you know he isnt doing any of that other stuff?
you dont." And he just continues the attack, making some strained analogy about Henry Ford working on a Tesla??
And I was like, ok, fine, let's just ask Rockman, so I pinged him with the question about if he just was going to start by installing Letterbomb and not following a bunch of other links on that site.
Then you stepped in and asked me, "Please don't bring your argument to our community, please." You asked this of ME, but I reiterate that I was trying to wrap it up and THEY just refused to let it go. They were the ones in the first place bringing me up as someone who had been banned, so that I even felt I had to mention why that had happened. I pointed that out to you in the chat -- that I was replying to them. I never intended to bring my argument there. At that point, "balls" was STILL going on about it. And he and "it never rains" did not stop.
And then you simply said, "The people you had issue with unfortunately have tenure and respect here.... So coming here you kinda should have expected it.."
No, I did not expect it. I said in the server that I had no idea that the same people would be there (and I still didn't know at that point -- I had no idea who had been talking in the NH2.5 server - the names were different). Then "balls" says, "that's on you" and that I should have known since this was the most popular wii hacking server. Well, I didn't know that either. I'm not that active in the scene. Why do I even have to defend myself against this -- yes -- bullying? It's my own fault for not knowing who everyone is and what servers they moderate?
Then you said, "And... Had you started on this community, you prolly would have gotten booted from here first.." So here you are, marginalizing their behavior and blaming me, when I had been nothing but civil, and they had not. Making me feel like I'm the inferior person, who deserves to be banned from your server as well.
And THEY, not me, just kept at it. So apparently it's my fault for not knowing this is the most popular wii discord, with over 1000 users, which I must have found on the wiihacks reddit... and "Paranoia" is gaslighting me, "youre obviously doing something wrong if everyone is disagreeing with you no matter where you go"
I was STILL trying to let it go. I was. But Andy then asks me a straight question about that guide and why I was recommending it, and if I was involved in writing it. I replied to him, while prefacing my reply with, "I was told not to bring my argument here but you keep asking," (I was making it clear that I HAD heard you, and wasn't just ignoring your request) and I just left the very simple reply about why I had suggested that guide, and that I had nothing to do with writing it.
And then they -- not me, again -- KEPT GOING ON AND ON about how I should have instead used wii.guide....
So I'm just trying to put a period on the discussion, and I say, "well, the how-to geek article was right there at the top when I search for 'how to install homebrew channel.' Literally the first link on Bing, other than Wiibrew, and that's why I suggested it."
And then they attack me even on THIS SIMPLE STATEMENT! They started going out of their way to post search results, and "phœg," using a slightly different search term, posts his different search results, saying of my claim that it was at the top of Bing, "That's just a lie."
Now tell me, why? Why did I keep getting attacked for every little thing I would say, including a simple statement that the how-to-geek article was at the top of the search results in Bing? It's because the room was poisoned against me from the start -- me, the expected troublemaker -- before I have even said one word. And so that's how I was treated -- like every little thing I said was probably a lie. Like I must have ulterior motives. I must be a troll. I deserve to be treated like crap.
Again you post in the chat, "Why is this argument still going on?
" And I'm saying again now: Not because of me.They continued posting different screenshots of search results to try and prove I was lying about it being at the top of Bing... Just WHY? Why do I deserve such petty attacks on my character over something so ridiculous? I guess because everyone was primed to treat me as a troublemaking troll. Nobody should feel bad mistreating a lesser person like that, right?
Then the guy finally uses the exact search term I said I used, and shows another screenshot (which conveniently cuts off after the first result), saying, "Well then in that case [the top result in Bing is] WiiBrew." To which I replied, "like I said, other than wiibrew (but I don't find wiibrew's guide very good) but thanks for calling me a liar." Even here I was civil.
At that point they kept going on about Bing.... And Rockman finally showed up and answered my earlier question of him -- in regard to me being challenged "how do you know what he will do?" Rockman just says, "Yeah" in response to my question, basically affirming he was going to use the guide just as I had said without following a bunch of other guides on the how-to geek site.
And at that point I'm saying, "I honestly don't get all the drama about this." Again, I was just trying to end it. I wasn't continuing the argument that EVERYONE ELSE seemed intent on keeping going (while placing all the blame on me).
I quoted Paranoia and said that I agreed with him -- he said he read the guide and that it was fine for the basic homebrew process, but that it didn't cover a lot of other stuff. I thanked him for actually looking it over and not just automatically saying it was wrong. Seriously, this exchange should have been the WHOLE argument. This was ALL that needed to be said. And it was actually civil. I agreed with what he said.
But were the mods going to let it go? Nope. "it never rains" then comes up with another pretty ridiculous argument, "if you're only going to install homebrew channel and not follow any other links, i wonder how you're going to use the homebrew channel?" and balls quoted him on it.
I mean, come on.... Is this serious? "it never rains" keeps on point, "but where will you get the apps? it links somewhere else to get them and you're not following any other links"
Rockman himself tried to speak up a couple times about this, saying, "it's a guide. I can find in wii hombrew site"
Then "it never rains" accuses Rockman of being a liar too, saying, "oh, so you're not only using that and not going anywhere else. so basically you lied"
And again THEY just kept going on and on about it.
Rockman replied to the above just by saying, "I don’t understand what is the problem"
And they kept talking about how how-to-geek's other wii pages had broken links -- but none of those other pages had anything to do with the simple Letterbomb guide.... so I make a simple statement about that, saying, "you're all taking about stuff that isn't in the guide..... Obviously when Rockman was ready to move on to something else, he would not be stuck on that page."
And of course I get challenged on this point too, because everything I say has to be attacked. "balls" says, "are you rockman? how would you know he wouldnt get stuck on that page? you didnt tell him to go anywhere else after following the 'basics'"
I mean, seriously, come on. Like Rockman is going to get stuck on a web page.....
Do I really need to keep pointing this stuff out? Have I painted enough of this picture? No, the picture isn't actually done yet. I'll continue.
I was then answering a question someone asked me about how I installed homebrew on my own wii, and then
Paranoia (apt nickname -- yes, that's a joke) says, "imposor sussy" (see?).
At that point I was saying I would further help Rockman if he got to the end of that guide and needed more help, and guess what? This statement was even criticized.... "why not use a guide that doesn't require babysitting?" Gee, I'm so sorry I was willing to help someone....
Then I pointed out that they were all talking for Rockman (all the statement about how he would be helpless, etc, if he followed that guide then would be stuck on that page....), and I said we could just ask him to speak for himself and let us know what he thought about what guides were easy to understand... and of course I get attacked on this statement too.
Paranoia continues, "i doubt its a different guy tbh"
"Balls" commented on me saying that obviously Rockman wouldn't be stuck on that page when he was ready to move on to something else, saying that this was, "the definition of speaking for someone" (recall that I had JUST said we should ask Rockman himself). I simply replied that it was just common sense.... at which point "balls" says, "your logic is so fucking flawed you are the living definition of a hypocrite."
"balls" continued saying it's not common sense for someone who has never touched homebrew, and I again said that we can just ask him, to let him speak for himself.
Then I was asking if the foul language was allowed, really more to point out that it WAS being used against me.... Someone said that it's allowed, but not if it's directed at someone to hurt them. Then "balls" jumps in to insist that he didn't do it to hurt me and nobody else would say he did (this is absolutely gaslighting -- (this is not a direct quote, but an example of what was being done): "what?? Nooo, of course me saying it was not to hurt you -- nobody would think that. You're crazy if you think that." And he immediately jumps to attack the next thing I said, calling it a load of bullshit (talking about things I had said in NH2.5, which has apparently all been deleted since I got banned... by HIM, I think?), and saying I was lying, and that I never said that (in the other channel), meanwhile, again, EVERYONE ELSE had continued to go on and on about this while I wasn't saying anything.
When I came back, I only replied to "balls" earlier claim by saying, "oh no, who would ever be offended by being called a hypocrite with fucking flawed logic? and a liar, earlier...."
And then Andy comes in with, "Just ignore him. This man is a classic troll. It’s not about being right, it’s about taking your time"
And "balls" continues with the insults and gaslighting, "its not offensive if its true." (so, it's perfectly ok to use foul language and call me names... because it's TRUE) and "if you take offense to a fact, thats your own pride getting in the way" (did this guy take a course on gaslighting?)
Paranoia says, "literally just ban him from all the big homebrew servers and even the little ones, if hes in those" (Yes, of course, I'm the troublemaking troll and I deserve to be banned from ALL the communities, and nobody should feel bad about the way they are treating me. I'm a lesser person).
And I say, "hm, yes, such a welcoming community." Hoping you people would see the way you were treating me (and Rockman for that matter).... but no.... I tried to say, "I'm not troll. I speak the truth."
"balls" says, "you speak lies and hypocracy, so if thats your deffinition of 'truth'"
You said, "He doesn't seem to wanna stay..."
phoeg said, "You took a shit on the welcome mat when you came in, pal."
"it never rains" said, "Here, I'll be welcoming. You're welcome to leave"
I tried to point out that I was a wii homebrew developer (due to the troll accusations), but of course I get challegned on this too (because, again, the room was primed to treat me this way). "balls" demanded, "oh yeah? what homebrew? please link" (because, obviously, everything I say must be treated as a lie...).
"it never rains" starts in on the troll accusations, "yknow..we haven't seen rockman and mr reaper type at the same time"
When I replied to phoeg's claims that I took a shit on the welcome mat, I pointed out how I was being painted as a troublemaker before I said anything, and "balls" plays innocent, "we never claimed you made trouble" and phœg says, "People were concerned because of what happened in the other server."
This sounds like some Fox News stuff, like, "oh no, we were just asking questions. We were just WONDERING if you were coming here to cause trouble," which just puts that thought into everyone's head....
And then Paranoia goes on with the paranoia, "i think its his alt. they were both made in the same time. like one week difference."
Because, of course, I must be a troll and deserve this treatment, so they have to check everything about me to confirm their bias.
Does it look suspicious that my and Rockman's accounts were made close to the same time? I guess so. But why the hell would I hang out in NH2.5 over the course of a few days and ask a bunch of noob questions with a sock puppet account and then, hours or a day later, answer those questions with a different account?? Ain't nobody got time for that. I assume "balls" and "rains" should have known that, since they were apparently in the other server....
Actually, at this point in the conversation, when "balls" and Paranoia were posting our User IDs and join dates, "it never rains" actually pointed out that "balls" technically had said I made trouble, in response to his earlier claim of innocence in that regard.
Paranoia then said, "hes broken rule 1 multiple times. at this point just ban him. all hes doing is causing trouble."
Now, please point out when *I* had broken your Rule 1? I was about the only one who hadn't done so.
I know I don't really need to cite your own Rule 1 at you, but OH MY GOSH....
"Rule 1: Be Civil - This is a social safe-space, meaning that if you say something mean or critical, you will be called out for it. There are sensitive people here, please be respectful of everyone."
Of course, "balls" jokes and demonstrates just how impotent your Rule 1 actually is... "to be honest if rule1 was put into force to the T we would all be banned."
And here you speak up, "I'm just a bit taken a back that someone would expect less than apprehension when joining a community under those circumstances...."
Except, of course, by "those circumstances" you are only referring to the poisoned, vague image of me that was casually tossed around or implied before I had said a single thing in your server... since you had no clue about what had happened in the other server, other than what you were lead to imagine based on your moderators preemptively casting doubt about my character and intentions. And you're joining in on basically saying I should have expected to be treated this way. I was met with far more than "apprehension;" I was met with overt hostility, to the point where EVERY SINGLE THING I said was being relentlessly assaulted, down to being called a liar just for stating what search result Bing had showed me! How does anyone not immediately call this out as bullying?? Meanwhile I remained civil the WHOLE time. And excuse me for not knowing that the same moderators would be in both servers, because I honestly did not. And I certainly didn't expect that they would start poisoning the waters about me before I said a single word.... And that's exactly what happened. It was not just innocently "asking questions" to start mentioning me the way they did. I never stood a chance.
Yeah, don't worry, we have arrived at the end of this. This is when you told Paranoia, in regard to his call to ban me, "Please. Don't tell us how to run this place." Am I wrong to say that this looks more like you being offended that someone was telling you what to do, rather than you chiding someone who was calling for the ban of another person, because that would be pretty unfriendly and make the other person feel like he wasn't welcome?
Then I said my final things (that Rockman and I were not the same person), and let it end. Someone else had come into the server anyway, and started talking about something else (well, technically, everyone ELSE finally let it end, and started talking to the new guy). HE actually received a "welcome." I certainly did not, but I'm told I should have expected to have been treated this way. Or am I just being "too sensitive" about all of this? Check your Rule 1. Or just read some of the things I quoted above, and imagine they are being said about you, and see how that makes you feel. Be sure to tell yourself, "I should have expected this treatment, like everyone keeps telling me. I guess I deserve it."
But here is the final bookend. I looked back later, and saw you joking in your server, "You guys making sure no one is feeling welcome?
"Har har. Isn't that hilarious? Just joke about how I had been bullied. Write it off as no big deal -- it's funny! You and your friends sure gave the new troll guy the what-for! Be proud of yourselves.
Your words, from your anti-bullying reddit post:
"And just to re-iterate; IF ANY OF THE STAFF OF RWIIHACKS IS CAUGHT DEFENDING OR MARGINALIZING BULLY BEHAVIOR, IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
"Please report this behavior if you see it. To the admin staff, or, if you think necessary, Reddit admin.
"If I do it. Call me out, civilly. Accusing me of being a bully with a sound argument and not just a 'I know you are but what am I' mentality will get you a conversation.
"There's no better way to get me to perk up.
"Fuck Bullies and the communities that foster them."
It is really, really easy to say "Fuck Bullies" when you are imagining them as evil faceless internet trolls. It's not so easy to call them out -- or even recognize them -- when they are your friends. Or yourself.
I won't go so far to say that you were so much actively part of the bullying, but you were part of the marginalizing. "And the communities that foster them."
I feel almost ridiculous having to say this, but:
I am a real person. This was the way your server treated a real person. And I did not deserve to be treated that way, no matter how much gaslighting of "you should have expected this" gets repeated. And you know what else? Rockman didn't deserve to be called a liar either. He is an actual legitimate new guy in the community, and this is how he gets treated. I actually apologized to him later, saying, "Sorry to drag you into an even worse server."
Now, to the end point, if that wasn't it. Why did I bother to do this? I was ready to just write your community off as "must be teens" like Rockman thought -- as just another all-too-typical toxic internet chat room. But then I came across your strong anti-bullying reddit post, and thought, "where was THAT guy when we needed him...?"
But the main impetus for writing to you was in your opening paragraphs of that post:
"Anyone who's been around me for any amount of time will know that when drama happens around me, and involves me, I become hyper-introspective on the topic.
On the topic of Bullying, Harassing, and feeling like you can participate in a community without becoming targeted by it....."
... I had to stop just now and reflect on "targeted" for a moment... Yeah... I never stood a chance.
But here's the word that originally popped out at me: "Hyper-introspective."
THAT is why I write to you. Not just as an attack or accusation or guilt-trip. But because I hope this will make you engage in some honest self-reflection, since you say that is part of who you are. Those words made me think you may be receptive to this, rather than "just a teen" who likely would not be. So I wrote this.
And after this? I expect nothing. Not that I'm saying I expect to be ignored (though that's always a possibility), but just that I don't do this with any intent to get a reply or resolution. You're not required to. I do things like this simply because I sometimes feel I just need to say what needs to be said, and so I do. Catharsis. No, that makes it sound selfish. It's not just for myself. If that were the case, I could just yell it to the stars. I can only send my words out and hope they find their mark. I, too, am introspective. I am also brutally honest. Do want you want with my words, or let them evaporate into internet oblivion.
But my part is played. It's not up to me to do any more than that, or to expect any more than that. And you know what? I take pride that I have the character to write and send this (because, seriously, who the hell would even do something like this? XD ).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
So, I pasted that letter into a Discord message to BloodyThorn, with the title "Bullying."
His reply? "Yeah dude, no intention of reading that, sorry."
This despite him stating that people should go to him directly with any bullying issues, and insisting that his server is a "safe space...." But he just decided to ignore my complaint completely. Again, I am treated as someone who deserves no consideration whatsoever.
The Next Issue Arises; So it's Not Just Me.
-------------------------------------------
There wasn't much more I could do at that point, and I wasn't really planning to. But then, not long after, out of nowhere, another Wii Homebrew developer (who I only chat with once in a while), came to me complaining about the moderators of the WiiHacks reddit.... He said, "the mods over at WiiHacks literally hate the Open Shop Channel but never promote homebrew. its all wads and pirates."
He was referring to this post on the WiiHacks reddit, and he was chatting with one of the maintainers of the Open Shop Channel about it:
https://old.reddit.com/r/WiiHacks/comments/obes6r/has_oschbb_always_been_as_bad_as_they_currently/
In that post, they are very dismissive and pretty insulting to wii homebrew (BloodyThorn flat out said that there are only 4-10 good homebrew apps, and the rest are rubbish. Ya know, a lot of people put a lot of work into a lot of wii homebrew, and even if they aren't all top-quality games, he's being a real jerk to call all that work "rubbish." What has he done?). And actually I think the original Hombrew Channel was really innovative and useful, when it was being maintained in the early days of Homebrew.
It really does seem that the WiiHacks leadership just doesn't care about any homebrew except wads and loaders and the pirate stuff....
The guy I was chatting with summed up his thoughts on the matter:
"the wiihacks guys are old men that like to gatekeep."
"The real problem they have is that Open Shop Channel/hbb takes people away from wiihacks. If you have every app at your finger tips you dont need wiihacks. So they wont promote it while they will help random people install wads and game hacks."
He also complained that if you post a link to Wiibrew on WiiHacks, it gets deleted as spam... and,
"They are now the biggest wii reddit and they will gatekeep it forever. Even gbatemp is a better forum. I would never send anyone to wiihacks."
There was more involved than just that reddit post; you can see in there that the maintainer of the Open Shop Channel tried to post and defend his homebrew. He also went into WiiHacks discord and tried to ask them about what problems they specifically had with the OSC, so that he could fix them... but mostly they said, "we don't actually use it, but we would never recommend it to anyone." They did offer to send any bug reports his way, or to set up a channel in their server for him....
I'm not familiar with everything else that went on, but after a while the issue came back up again on the WiiHacks subreddit, with BloodyThorn going out of his way to tell people not to use the Open Shop Channel. His original post made more claims of harassment and accused the OSC team being childish, but he later edited the post to remove most of the inflammatory statements. Here is the post now; it even notes at the top that it was edited:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WiiHacks/comments/p90xgd/why_we_recommend_you_do_not_use_the_homebrew/
Part of the conflict seems to be that the WiiHacks people, as previously shown, do not like the OSC and do not allow it to be discussed on the WiiHacks subreddit, so someone on the OSC Discord posted a banner there suggesting that people not go to WiiHacks for help with the Wii.
Now, it's not as if we wii homebrew developers have any kind of group that gets together and makes plans to boycott the WiiHacks community. We are each determining on our own that WiiHacks is not a good community to send people to for help. The WiiHacks leadership is earning that distinction on their own. It's only natural that the OSC people would steer users away from WiiHacks, after WiiHacks has already made it clear they don't allow discussion about the OSC on their subreddit, and are pretty hostile toward it.
It looks like most of the commenters in that reddit thread were pushing back against BloodyThorn's position. They call him out for just needlessly going out of his way to bash a piece of homebrew. Even after his edit to that post, he makes the claim that OSC discord was encouraging their users to harass WiiHacks, but one of the OSC people posted there challenging him on that point, saying they've asked him to provide details or evidence, but he has not done so.
So that is where things stand. I don't know much more about the WiiHack vs OSC conflict, as I am not in the OSC Discord server. But obviously from my perspective it looks like the fault lies with the WiiHacks leadership.
At this point I think I have shown the evidence as to why I say these things, so that this will not just be seen as baseless name-calling:
They are toxic bullies who do not uphold their own anti-bullying rules, and have no problem making others feel like lesser people. They are gatekeepers who are completely dismissive toward homebrew which they deem as rubbish (which is apparently all homebrew except 4-10 apps).
In any case, even though I am not involved with the OSC, after seeing these later issues arise, I decided to share my own story, since I saw it was not just me having issues. I don't enjoy getting into this drama, but at the same time I can't sit back and not speak up about this after the treatment I received just because I was trying to be helpful to a homebrew noob (and if anyone wondered, Rockman did get himself all up and running with all the homebrew he wanted -- I continued to help him through direct messages).
I can only end by quoting BloodyThorn's own words again. Even though I, personally, would not go so far as to use this language myself, I quote him for the irony:
"Fuck Bullies and the communities that foster them."
If anyone actually read through all this to the end... What are you crazy??
But thanks for reading.
