America: everyday life vs that YouTube video

[CallmeBerto]

Another thing I'd like to add is my own personal experience with the police force.

I am 26 years old and I've had 2 encounters with the police.

1. Got my first ticket at 17 for speeding while I was mad about it, it was also my vault for speeding and the cop was respectful about it.
2. I was out really late in a bad part of town and I got ID asking me what I was doing I was 18 at the time. Again after this exchange and checking my ID and looking me up they went ahead and let me go. Again no issues here.

Overall I've never had any issues with them and I have personally never seen them act like the mad men the media makes them out to be.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I popped reading that because...

lol I mean people are assholes

 

[Quantumcat]

That's the whole conversation going around about a lack of training for many police officers. Officers who are poorly trained lack the capability for better mental judgment that could decrease violent encounters and fatalities. As you said, someone who can't logically have a gun shouldn't be hossled. That said, it's absolutely a hard job, especially in crime-ridden areas. Speaking specifically about the nurse in the video in question, that absolutely should not have happened, but for a cop working in the Bronx? Yes, approaching situations aggressively is an understandable position given the nature of the area they work in.

Also no, I don't think a solution is as clear as simply barring the sale of guns. 2nd amendment debates aside, there's just no conclusive evidence that this would work. If we're talking about causation, while gun manufacturing nearly doubled between 2007 and 2011, gun murders in 2012 were at their lowest rates since 1981 and drastically declining. Same with robbery and aggravated assault involving firearms (Source). Rising gun production with drastically declining gun violence would suggest that there is another factor at play and at the very least, it cannot just be gun control that needs to be examined in order to deal with violent crime.



Healthcare needs to be fixed, no doubt. But calling America a "butchery"? Rates of murder and violent crime have been drastically declining over the past many decades. The reason things look so bad now is because violent crimes and police confrontations are reported more often and on bigger platforms, giving the illusion that things are going to hell when the actual facts show that the situation is actually getting better and better. America's homicide rates are too high, for sure, but you also have to consider geography since America is so vast -- high homicide and violent crime rates happen in concentrated, densely-packed areas, thereby driving up the number of potential victims. Meanwhile, other places in the US have extremely low crime rates due to a multitude of factors. You really cannot generalize anything in this country, there's just too much diversity of everything to do that.

It's true the could be another reason why there are so many police brutality attacks. But the fact that the US has way more guns than any other first world country, the police are brutal there, and there's a logical connection between the two, makes it unlikely there's another explanation. Like if you have two dogs, one of whom eats a banana peel and is really sick the next day, and the other doesn't and is healthy, you'd immediately assume it is caused by the banana peel. Of course it could be something unrelated (like he was already sick and is having an acute episode of whatever it is), and the banana peel won't harm him, but that seems unlikely.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

It's true the could be another reason why there are so many police brutality attacks. But the fact that the US has way more guns than any other first world country, the police are brutal there, and there's a logical connection between the two, makes it unlikely there's another explanation. Like if you have two dogs, one of whom eats a banana peel and is really sick the next day, and the other doesn't and is healthy, you'd immediately assume it is caused by the banana peel. Of course it could be something unrelated (like he was already sick and is having an acute episode of whatever it is), and the banana peel won't harm him, but that seems unlikely.

That's correlation, not causation. It's a logical fallacy to assume that, especially given the statistics that show dramatically decreased gun violence during a period of dramatically increased gun production. Because that statistic is true, we cannot assume there is direct causation between an increase in guns and gun violence (even if it may play a role). Rather, there is at least one other very important factor in play somewhere that has to be examined. At the very least, an increase in gun ownership is not the sole cause and so banning gun sales will not alleviate the issue. And so no, the facts show the exact opposite of what you say --- that it is actually very likely there's another explanation, or another factor in gun violence and therefore police violence other than increased gun sales/gun ownership.

 

[Sonic Angel Knight]

America does a lot of dumb things, and smart things, but mostly unfair things. Being in a country that doesn't seem to be more caring to the people they get hired to protect, seem like everyone is concerned for their own lives. I understand that but as people who gets paid to protect others, their job is protecting the innocent, the line of betrayal is there and makes it uncomfortable for me and unappealing for others who are observing this state. Sometimes i feel others are laughing at us and how destructive we are, maybe planning things against us, I'm just a common person, I do simple things, i socialize, i try to be nice and try to live a happy life without inconveniencing others.

I do not feel comfortable being outside in the open most of the time, I don't feel safe at all even in my own house. I don't like waking up to news of disaster of people killing every day. That doesn't give hope for me or show others that usa is a good place, I honestly encourage people not to come here because in honestly I don't wanna be here. New york? Don't come, if i could I would move but unfortunate circumstances seem to impact a lot of people and prevent such actions as if intentional. People here are not friendly most of the time, not sure of the reasons, maybe sadness, depression, stress, other personal matters they put on to others as inconvenience, I want to be able to have a nice life where people I can feel comfortable around, but this place just isn't it. Can't walk the street without someone glaring or having something shady going on and giving you chills.

At times like this, i wish i was Phillip J Fry from futurama just frozen in cryogenically until the future is a better place.

 

[GalladeGuy]

Are some police like that? Yes, of course. There will always be a few bad apples. But the majority of cops are good people who are just doing their job. Of course it is terrible what happened to that nurse, but we have to remember that it was a single incident. Police arrest hundreds of people a day, most of them being justified. Even if some of them aren't, cops are people too. People make mistakes.

 

[orangy57]

some cops are cool and others are power tripping douches that think they're all cool because they have a gun and the law on their side

 

[Deleted User]

the statistics that show dramatically decreased gun violence during a period of dramatically increased gun production

You raise a very good point, but I still prefer to live in Australia with our brutal knife and gun laws.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

You raise a very good point, but I still prefer to live in Australia with our brutal knife and gun laws.

I don't blame you, haha.

 

[HamBone41801]

well, I'd say everyone is wholeheartedly against what happened to that nurse. however, most people either think that america is one incident away from becoming a police state, or they refuses to accept that a problem exists. far too many people take their opinion on the matter to such extremes.

there is definitely a problem in some places, in fact it was ruled that a specific police station was absolutely training its officers to profile based on race (as for which one, I think it was the one where the mentally handicapped man with the toy train was shot, but I might be wrong). but for the most part, its bad people in the field, not the field itself that is to blame.

 

[Taleweaver]

Hadn't seen the video (this one, right?), but I can see why this thread is being made. And to be honest, I've got those doubts as well.

As someone who has never even been on US soil, my view obviously depends on the media and home video's. And of course neither go viral or make the news if nothing's amiss ("next up on the news: local US cop goes to investigate a neighbor dispute and totally calms everyone by being diplomatic and nice to all involved, thus allowing for them to settle their differences in a civilized manner! Shocking images at seven o'clock!!!"), so my view is obviously one-sided.

Still, I can't but help notice that things are polarizing. Before 9/11 I never heard anything on xenophobia, but since then it slowly dripped in, it seems. And the financial crisis clearly left a large group frustrated and/or in a victim role (rightfully so, but that's a different matter). Mostly, people are people and tend to keep their problems to themselves. But that doesn't mean the frustration is gone. Again: it may be me, but stories like told in not always right seem like external outings of that frustration.
And cops? They get to deal with these people on a daily basis. The sort of people who want to sue a coffee bar for them not parking correctly or want a problem on their porch solved without giving away their address. I imagine they're under a lot of stress. And the polarization isn't helping. It's as if everyone is put against everyone. Christ, it's like you as a country just WANT to get everyone against you. Immigrants, children of former immigrants, black people, believers in climate change, North Korea, the European Union...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know: the far majority of inhabitants just want a decent job, not being at war, a freshly mowed lawn in front of the house and Turkey for thanksgiving. Shouldn't you focus on having that instead of on what's going on?

(note: the polarization didn't start with Trump. Him even making it to candidate was already a sign of things being wrong)

*sigh*

Believe me, I hate cops as well. I know I can't count on them if I need them, and I've had my share of problems for retarded offenses (got a ticket for driving through a red light when there's no car ANYWHERE...with a freaking bike). I know they're just being human, and that means being realistic: they probably didn't join the police to harass people about stupid things, but it just so happens that if they have a job ahead of them, they tend to do it (they get a quota on ticket fines that have to be met? So be it). I tend to think that this incident is in the same vein: the agent assumed he was right because being right is what being a police is about (that's sarcasm), so the nurse must've been wrong. The nurse was wrong, so she was in the way of the investigation. She was in the way of the investigation, therefore she should've been arrested. From that sort of logic, it all fits.

...and I think I rambled more than made any cohesive post. Sorry about that.

That's correlation, not causation. It's a logical fallacy to assume that, especially given the statistics that show dramatically decreased gun violence during a period of dramatically increased gun production.

I'd like to see those statistics. Because for one thing, I don't believe this world is becoming a safer place now that North Korea is doing that increased gun production thing.

 

[Blebleman]

America is a third-world country.
They use Imperial measurements, Fahrenheit...
People can't pay for education, can't pay for healthcare, don't earn enough to retire...

"Make America Great Again" ... America never was "Great" to begin with...

Go to Canada if you want to see what America should be like.

EDIT: OH LOL AND GUNS. How could I forget guns? Oh right -- it's because they're not an issue here.

 

[GalladeGuy]

America is a third-world country.
They use Imperial measurements, Fahrenheit...
People can't pay for education, can't pay for healthcare, don't earn enough to retire...

"Make America Great Again" ... America never was "Great" to begin with...

Go to Canada if you want to see what America should be like.

EDIT: OH LOL AND GUNS. How could I forget guns? Oh right -- it's because they're not an issue here.

I'd rather not live in a country where I can get arrested for "misgendering" someone.

 

[Stephano]

HAHAHAHA murricah.

I'm sorry but the US is portrayed as a laugh over here.
It's the land of burgers, fastfood, fat pigs on scooters and other nonsense.

Also, no, I have not seen that video, nor do I care.

Well, you are not wrong. Obesity is a problem. I honestly don't know how and why some people let themselves go like that. It's disgusting. Not to mention, the whole body positivity movement.
While that is something to laugh at, its not exclusive to the US. Although its bigger here.
Aside from obesity, i don't think there is that much to laugh at that can't be found anywhere else.
I feel like a lot of the news that leaves the US is just over the top stuff. I like in small city where life is just normal. Nothing out of the ordinary and plenty of business to keep the place nice and it's citizens happy. Life in most places is just like everywhere else.
But to be fare, i live in the south. It's different here than most places. People are kind and respectful. That's where the phrase "Southern Hospitality" comes from. There are places like West Memphis and Little Rock which have a lot of crime, but that's inevitable when you have large cities.

 

[WeedZ]

Why have I been finding these so late recently. Cops in the US are crooked. End of story. I was having a discussion about this in the shout box last weekend.

A cop here can walk up to an unarmed guy, not announce himself as an officer, and shoot the dude in the chest while on camera. And all that will happen is he'll be put on a paid suspension while his friends "internal affairs" investigate, and ultimately, put him back to work. This example was literally on the local news here yesterday morning.

They always end in paid leave and return to duty.

I can understand why it happens. Consider life from the perspective of a police officer. Anybody could be carrying a gun, and have no hesitation about using it on you.

If you value your life, you have to start every encounter in an aggressive way because of the risk. Even if someone clearly can't logically have a gun (they're in a swimming suit or naked for instance) it would be force of habit - you don't start by determining whether there might be a gun involved or not (by then it could be too late and you are shot), you just have to automatically approach every situation aggressively.

The only solution is to have less guns, but the NRA seems to own the government and it won't happen. This is a large reason why I would never want to live in the U.S. I could get shot as an innocent bystander by police or criminals alike. And then go bankrupt from the medical bills as salt in the wound.

Edit : I used to wonder how so many American police could just be so evil, until I understood this perspective. It really doesn't make any sense that somehow, all of the thousands of police officers recruited each year from all different backgrounds could all be a bit evil in the same way. But once you realise it's the environment they are working in that causes it, it makes so much more sense. All of these different sorts of people end up the same because they have to all go through the same horrors which shapes the way they do their job.

Cops take an oath to uphold the constitution and preserve law and order as a public servant. Not to go home safe every night. That's why law enforcement is suppose to be a position of honor.

But you have cops like the one that pulled a gun on my 15 year old sister while questioning why she was out so late. Fucking cowards like that have no business being in uniform. They want to be heroes and figures of authority, but they'd rather threaten a little girls life than honor their position. Fuck em.

It's not all cops, sure. But it's too god damn many. That stuff happens here all the time. They ALWAYS get away with it.

 

[Subtle Demise]

The only solution is to have less guns, but the NRA seems to own the gogvernment and it won't happen.

The fact the NRA, which is basically a group that supports children being murdered, exists, is a shame for the USA.

I don't know where these borderline libelous statements came from, but without guns there is nothing stopping this nation from being a total police state. It's the threat of the militia and an armed revolution that keeps the federal government somewhat in check. That's why it was important enough to be the 2nd amendment to the constitution, right under freedom of speech.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

While yes that brutality was uncalled for, not all police officers are like that and some people need to learn that they are essential for preserving law and order.

Honestly I hate the "not all cops" argument, because while, yes, the majority of officers are not brutalizing or assaulting people, the majority ARE letting it slide... and the ones that are speaking out against it get fired, which shows just how corrupt people who wield power tend to get

 

[SG854]

HAHAHAHA murricah.

I'm sorry but the US is portrayed as a laugh over here.
It's the land of burgers, fastfood, fat pigs on scooters and other nonsense.

Also, no, I have not seen that video, nor do I care.

You mean like this.

Disturbing, but the sentiment of those comments are not true. America is a very large country, and one thing that happens in one part of the country might be very different in another. I live in Seattle, and the police I know here are very well trained and organized. Personally, I know two cops in training, and when I was on the streets during the inauguration day protests/riots, they were very diligent and did their jobs well. See, all the various town/city police departments operate independently for the most part. It is impossible to generalize what happened among one police department to another anywhere else in the US. That's just how this country works.

Honestly, there's been so much mass-hysteria over police brutality due to an over-reporting of incidents like the one in question with the nurse. Nevertheless, violent confrontations with police have been on a general downward trend across the US over the past many decades. While things are getting better, cases of police brutality are being reported more and more, and so it seems like the situation is getting worse when it is in fact improving. I'm hoping that something good can come of this and whatever issues certain police departments face can be rooted out much quicker knowing they'll have the public ire if they fail. But no, the whole "America is a fucked up place where cops think themselves kings" is pure hysteria.

Pretty much. Most of the stuff about cops brutality is exaggerated. Cops get such a bad rep. Its mostly due to BLM spreading lies about cops.

When you look at criminal records most shootings are justified. With eye witness testimonies, criminal history, whether they were a threat, radio trafficking, recording devices like phones (since everybody records everything), forensics, ballistics (science of firearms and projectiles), ect. There plenty of evidence to show most shootings are justified.

Black communities are less policed. Cops are more hesitant with blacks then with whites. Which is why crime is so high among blacks.
This is also true historically when racism was big in America. Racist whites didn't want to police black neighborhoods because they wanted blacks to keep killing each other. Nowadays they want to avoid being called a racist. Black cops kill blacks more than white cops do. Blacks kill blacks more than whites kill blacks.

Police reduces crime. This study shows with more cops the less crime happens. This is also true for many places around the world.
Countries with less police have higher rates of crime. People that are tying to get rid of the police force and trying to reduce police budget, "because they think they're making the place safer from cops," are actually making the place more dangerous for themselves.

Because of mass delusional people who shout crazy things without empirical evidence, and just making assumptions about police, now we have a country that thinks police are a source of evil. Those same people that say the police force is racist, goes around and break into buildings and burn cities to the ground, crying about an imaginary oppression thats all in there head. They take a few cases of bad cops and apply it to every cops. Im really tired of their shit tbh.

Instead of blaming cops we should be thanking cops. They put their life on the line to protect us. And instead people treat them like shit.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

Pretty much. Most of the stuff about cops brutality is exaggerated. Cops get such a bad rep. Its mostly due to BLM spreading lies about cops.

When you look at criminal records most shootings are justified. With eye witness testimonies, criminal history, whether they were a threat, radio trafficking, recording devices like phones (since everybody records everything), forensics, ballistics (science of firearms and projectiles), ect. There plenty of evidence to show most shootings are justified.

Black communities are less policed. Cops are more hesitant with blacks then with whites. Which is why crime is so high among blacks.
This is also true historically when racism was big in America. Racist whites didn't want to police black neighborhoods because they wanted blacks to keep killing each other. Nowadays they want to avoid being called a racist. Black cops kill blacks more than white cops do. Blacks kill blacks more than whites kill blacks.

Police reduces crime. This study shows with more cops the less crime happens. This is also true for many places around the world.
Countries with less police have higher rates of crime. People that are tying to get rid of the police force and trying to reduce police budget, "because they think they're making the place safer", are making the place more dangerous for themselves.

Because of mass delusional people who shout crazy things without empirical evidence, and just making assumptions about police, now we have a country that thinks police are a source of evil. Those same people that say the police force is racist, goes around and break into buildings and burn cities to the ground, crying about an imaginary oppression thats all in there head. They take a few cases of bad cops and apply it to every cops. Im really tired of their shit tbh.

Yeah, it's pretty sad when people are retaliating against the folks that keep their communities safe while basically ignoring actual criminal activity. BLM is a big umbrella, but they have a lot of nutjobs who basically play criminal apologists, saying it's the cops fault that crime occurs. At the end of the day, we all want safer neighborhoods and less crime, right? Well it's a shame people don't keep an open mind to seek out solutions that actually work or improve things and instead cling to their unfounded beliefs and just seek to confirm their biases instead of thinking critically to find actual solutions.

 

[SG854]

Yeah, it's pretty sad when people are retaliating against the folks that keep their communities safe while basically ignoring actual criminal activity. BLM is a big umbrella, but they have a lot of nutjobs who basically play criminal apologists, saying it's the cops fault that crime occurs. At the end of the day, we all want safer neighborhoods and less crime, right? Well it's a shame people don't keep an open mind to seek out solutions that actually work or improve things and instead cling to their unfounded beliefs and just seek to confirm their biases instead of think critically to find actual solutions.

They are more destructive instead of being constructive. Instead of breaking into buildings and burning cars, why not help blacks get a better education or do something that can make there situation better.

 

[RevPokemon]

Honestly I hate the "not all cops" argument, because while, yes, the majority of officers are not brutalizing or assaulting people, the majority ARE letting it slide... and the ones that are speaking out against it get fired, which shows just how corrupt people who wield power tend to get

Lord Acton warned us about this and it turns out he is true especially in the case of policing where they hold a state issued monopoly on the use of force....