What is Socialism, Communism, etc?

[Hanafuda]

@Hanafuda

Ummmm ok?

Yeah I would agree those people are garbage but what does that have to do with this topic?

They’re Communists.

 

[The Catboy]

They’re Communists.

No, that's cherry picking explains and an ad hominem

 

[TotalInsanity4]

@Hanafudaech more like

Socialism = hate the winners in life.

If we're going to phrase it that way, then "socialism = hating people who amass vast amounts of wealth by refusing to fairly pay workers and taxes"

 

[CallmeBerto]

@TotalInsanity4

If you get paid the min wage no matter were you go which is more likely? They are all greedy or you have low skill? You are paid a fair wage based on the value you provide. Oh and the the rich pay all the taxes. The top 1% pay almost half of all the damn taxes.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

@TotalInsanity4

If you get paid the min wage no matter were you go which is more likely? They are all greedy or you have low skill? You are paid a fair wage based on the value you provide. Oh and the the rich pay all the taxes. The top 1% pay almost half of all the damn taxes.

Jeff Bezos hasn't paid taxes in years and pays warehouse workers minimum wage, while severely punishing them for taking so much as a bathroom break

 

[CallmeBerto]

https://splinternews.com/amazon-made-5-6-billion-in-profits-last-year-and-repor-1823329221

"As Matthew Gardner at the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy writes, Amazon was able to effectively zero out its federal income tax burden by leveraging various tax benefits. Here’s what Amazon had to say in its U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filing (emphasis mine):

Our provision for income taxes in 2017 was lower than in 2016 primarily due to excess tax benefits from stock-based compensation and the provisional favorable effect of the 2017 Tax Act, partially offset by an increase in the proportion of foreign losses for which we may not realize a tax benefit and audit-related developments."

Sounds like an issue with our tax laws. If you are suggesting we fix them then I would have to agree.

Reading up more on him he sounds like a bad person and nobody should work for him.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Sounds like an issue with our tax laws. If you are suggesting we fix them then I would have to agree.

I do believe you'd be hard-pressed to find a leftist that would disagree with that. The problem is that we have a system that not only enables greed like his, but rewards it

 

[CallmeBerto]

Well we do have a government that has sold its soul for cold hard cash decades ago soooooo.

I can't think of a way to fix it without killing it and starting over. Voting the "right" people in is unlikely going to fix anything due to how bad it has gotten, who knows how far this even goes.

 

[Hanafuda]

No, that's cherry picking explains and an ad hominem

I suppose Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-Il are all cherry picking too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I suppose Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-Il are all cherry picking too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

What in the goddamn hell does that have to relavantly do with literally anything in the sequence you quoted

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Well we do have a government that has sold its soul for cold hard cash decades ago soooooo.

I can't think of a way to fix it without killing it and starting over. Voting the "right" people in is unlikely going to fix anything due to how bad it has gotten, who knows how far this even goes.

Again. Agreed. The government needs to work in the interest of the people, whereas our current political system rewards elected officials with a fat pension and no obligation to do anything to help people in a lower tax bracket than themselves

 

[The Catboy]

I suppose Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-Il are all cherry picking too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

Yes, what you are doing is still cherry picking. You are just selecting random pieces of information that don't reflect the movement as a whole, but presenting them as if they do. That's cherry picking.

 

[kumikochan]

socialism - pure 100% utopian BS that can never work and will never work. The reason it fails is because it fails at both basic economics and human nature.

communism - basically the same as socialism, and yes I know technically communism hasn't been tried. Doesn't matter since it still fails at both basic economics and human nature which is why it would end the same way.

Capitalism - The greatest form of economics ever. The ONLY system that has ever brought so much wealth and prosperity to everyone. oh and the USA hasn't been free market capitalist since the 50's. You know it is funny how many people shit on Capitalism when if they looked at it is Government screwing everything up.

I disagree tho. I find a social democracy to be the best system in place that brings much more wealth and prosperity to everyone then almost a pure capitalistic system that is in place in the US.

 

[WeedZ]

Communism = hate rich people

Capitalism = hate poor people

Better yet..
Communism = laziness
Capitalism = greed

 

[Hanafuda]

Yes, what you are doing is still cherry picking. You are just selecting random pieces of information that don't reflect the movement as a whole, but presenting them as if they do. That's cherry picking.

Communism's had over 100 years to turn in a success story. Name it. Those regimes ARE the movement as a whole. Throw in Venezuela, Cuba, et al. and their glorious contributions to boot.

 

[WeedZ]

Vietnam is doing pretty OK nowadays

 

[sarkwalvein]

Communism's had over 100 years to turn in a success story. Name it. Those regimes ARE the movement as a whole. Throw in Venezuela, Cuba, et al. and their glorious contributions to boot.

I miss pre-1999 Venezuela, it was a nice place. Kind of.
I kid, it was already a free falling tragedy. Even before its Corruptism.
Well, being positive about at least it is about to stop the free fall... abruptly. It has to crash-land on the bottom after all.
Poor Venezuelans.

 

[The Catboy]

Communism's had over 100 years to turn in a success story. Name it. Those regimes ARE the movement as a whole. Throw in Venezuela, Cuba, et al. and their glorious contributions to boot.

We could also talk about the fact that millions of people die almost every single day under Capitalism because they can't afford basic food, clean water, and proper medical care. You are using the same cherry picked arguments everyone uses. What you are saying however is not what Communism nor Socialism is, it's cherry picked examples of when it failed.

 

[FAST6191]

I p(success)=0 for one thing and p(success)=greater than 0 for something else then the latter is objectively better, even if only marginally.

It might still result in some shit but point me at something better and we will contemplate it.

 

[Hanafuda]

We could also talk about the fact that millions of people day every single under Capitalism because they can't afford basic food, clean water, and proper medical care. You are using the same cherry picked arguments everyone uses. What you are saying however is not what Communism nor Socialism is, it's cherry picked examples of when it failed.

Sure man.

 

[The Catboy]

Sure man.

Why not bring up the examples of when the CIA went in and overthrew/attempted to overthrow leaders just to make the system fail? If it's ok to talk about the failures of Communism, then it's ok to talk about the failures of Capitalism.
Neither system is without flaw, but that doesn't mean the flaws are the only part of the system. Your examples are not what Communism is, is what I am getting at. If you are going to only define one system by it's flaws, then your system is also defined by it's flaws.