Believe Accusers!

[Deleted User]

but that doesn't mean they can't get one through easily if they just pick a guy who can act normal for a few hours during confirmation hearings.

Dude, I can appreciate your other arguments. But this "he's so whiny and snowflakish" thing is absurd. His professional and personal life is crumbling around him. Imagine waking up one morning. You've worked hard for this moment and are about to become a Supreme Court judge. And then you receive a phone call.

Apparently his personal relationships are suffering, etc. Listen man, you really don't get to judge him in that manner until you've actually gone through what the guy is going through.

 

[Hanafuda]

Seems there might be a few issues for Dr. Ford to resolve about her testimony. The double-door renovation project on her house took place in 2008, not 2012 as she testified, and was done to allow a marriage counselor who had previously resided in the home to continue keeping her practice there. Later, it provided a separate apartment space for those Google interns. But the construction was done years before she allegedly told her husband they needed two front doors because Kavanaugh's a home-invading rape ninja.

Also, there's this tonight -- a longtime boyfriend of Ford's has provided Senate Judiciary a sworn statement that he witnessed Ford once coaching someone on how to take a polygraph (she explicitly denied ever doing so during her testimony), that she has no fear of flying whatsoever, never mentioned a traumatic event in high school, never mentioned the name Brett Kavanaugh, and ran up charges on his credit card after he had already broken up with her because she fucked around on him lol.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/10/02...e-judiciary-witnessed-coach-friend-polygraphs

The name is redacted here, but Senate Judiciary knows his identity.

 

[Deleted User]

Seems there might be a few issues for Dr. Ford to resolve about her testimony. The double-door renovation project on her house took place in 2008, not 2012 as she testified, and was done to allow a marriage counselor who had previously resided in the home to continue keeping her practice there. Later, it provided a separate apartment space for those Google interns. But the construction was done years before she allegedly told her husband they needed two front doors because Kavanaugh's a home-invading rape ninja.

Also, there's this tonight -- a longtime boyfriend of Ford's has provided Senate Judiciary a sworn statement that he witnessed Ford once coaching someone on how to take a polygraph (she explicitly denied ever doing so during her testimony), that she has no fear of flying whatsoever, never mentioned a traumatic event in high school, never mentioned the name Brett Kavanaugh, and ran up charges on his credit card after he had already broken up with him because she fucked around on him lol.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/10/02...e-judiciary-witnessed-coach-friend-polygraphs

The name is redacted here, but Senate Judiciary knows his identity.

Honestly, if you really want to use the 'oh but da buddy language!!' Excuse, then all indications lead to ford being the liar. My brothers a psychologist, and he says that all of the classical signs of a liar is on fords side. Ntm, but all of the people involved, even the best friend, claim that ford is really confused. Not throwing accusations or anything. Just sayin.

 

[osaka35]

Seems there might be a few issues for Dr. Ford to resolve about her testimony. The double-door renovation project on her house took place in 2008, not 2012 as she testified, and was done to allow a marriage counselor who had previously resided in the home to continue keeping her practice there. Later, it provided a separate apartment space for those Google interns. But the construction was done years before she allegedly told her husband they needed two front doors because Kavanaugh's a home-invading rape ninja.

Also, there's this tonight -- a longtime boyfriend of Ford's has provided Senate Judiciary a sworn statement that he witnessed Ford once coaching someone on how to take a polygraph (she explicitly denied ever doing so during her testimony), that she has no fear of flying whatsoever, never mentioned a traumatic event in high school, never mentioned the name Brett Kavanaugh, and ran up charges on his credit card after he had already broken up with her because she fucked around on him lol.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/10/02...e-judiciary-witnessed-coach-friend-polygraphs

The name is redacted here, but Senate Judiciary knows his identity.

20 years is a long time, and I'm not sure why we should trust his memory more than hers. There could be many numerous reasons she didn't tell him about what happened or gave more details. And phobias can develop overtime when things are left unresolved. Someone more skilled can explain how his testimony doesn't impact hers much, but it doesn't overly change my opinion of the situation.

 

[Hanafuda]

20 years is a long time, and I'm not sure why we should trust his memory more than hers. There could be many numerous reasons she didn't tell him about what happened or gave more details. And phobias can develop overtime when things are left unresolved. Someone more skilled can explain how his testimony doesn't impact hers much, but it doesn't overly change my opinion of the situation.

He witnessed her coaching someone on how to take a polygraph, and even remembers the name of the person she coached. From Ford's testimony in front of the Committee:

“Have you ever had discussions with anyone, beside your attorneys, on how to take a polygraph?” Mitchell asked.

“Never,” Ford responded.

“And I don’t just mean countermeasures,” Mitchell said, “but I mean just any sort of tips, or anything like that.”

“No,” Ford said.

“Have you ever given tips or advice to somebody who was looking to take a polygraph test?” Mitchell continued.

“Never,” Ford replied again.

Honestly, if you really want to use the 'oh but da buddy language!!' Excuse, then all indications lead to ford being the liar. My brothers a psychologist, and he says that all of the classical signs of a liar is on fords side. Ntm, but all of the people involved, even the best friend, claim that ford is really confused. Not throwing accusations or anything. Just sayin.

Yeah I know the purported body-language experts have been putting their opinions out there, but tbh I've been ignoring those. I don't care which side they claim is more truthful, I just don't feel like I'm gonna trust that 'science' to a degree that I'm going to let it inform me on whether someone is truthful or not.

 

[osaka35]

He witnessed her coaching someone on how to take a polygraph, and even remembers the name of the person she coached. From Ford's testimony in front of the Committee:

"coaching" would indicate she helped her how to beat the system. His words would indicate she let someone know what a polygraph was, what it does, and to not be nervous. My guess is she was thinking "no, I didn't tell someone how to cheat the polygraph test" and he was thinking "she totally talked to someone about what a polygraph was and what to expect". "how to take one" feels like they're asking if she told someone how to cheat, ya know? which he verified she didn't X'D.

kind of like...if you have to pee in a cup for a drug test. if someone explained to me the process and how it worked, that's not the same as someone telling me how to get around my pee being tested.

Possibly not, but that's how it reads to me.

 

[Hanafuda]

"coaching" would indicate she helped her how to beat the system. His words would indicate she let someone know what a polygraph was, what it does, and to not be nervous. My guess is she was thinking "no, I didn't tell someone how to cheat the polygraph test" and he was thinking "she totally talked to someone about what a polygraph was and what to expect". "how to take one" feels like they're asking if she told someone how to cheat, ya know? which he verified she didn't X'D.

kind of like...if you have to pee in a cup for a drug test. if someone explained to me the process and how it worked, that's not the same as someone telling me how to get around my pee being tested.

Possibly not, but that's how it reads to me.

She wasn't just asked about coaching. Read the quoted text above from her testimony. She was asked about giving basic advice, tips too.

 

[osaka35]

She wasn't just asked about coaching. Read the quoted text above from her testimony. She was asked about giving basic advice, tips too.

I read. I figured she could have taken that to mean tips on how to cheat the thing. tips in a "wink, wink" kind of way rather than "did you explain what one was and what it did". First thing about hearings like this is they tend to look for an out when it comes to accusers, even if they have to create the out from nothing. I don't like how they asked the question if they just wanted to know the innocent question.

 

[Hanafuda]

I read. I figured she could have taken that to mean tips on how to cheat the thing. tips in a "wink, wink" kind of way rather than "did you explain what one was and what it did". First thing about hearings like this is they tend to look for an out when it comes to accusers, even if they have to create the out from nothing. I don't like how they asked the question if they just wanted to know the innocent question.

Nope, that would be 'countermeasures' against the instrument, which Mitchell specifically excluded from that question re: "any sort of tips."

 

[osaka35]

Nope, that would be 'countermeasures' against the instrument, which Mitchell specifically excluded from that question re: "any sort of tips."

I'm still suspicious of the wording. I'm also not sure why it matters X'D that's not the kind of detail most people would be expected to remember anyway.

 

[urherenow]

Can't be bothered to read all the replies but I'll put in my 2 cents and walk away.

"Accusers" should be heard and the allegations investigated. Period. INVESTIGATED.

But what the hell do you mean by "Believe the accusers"? If you are saying that they are automatically telling the truth, then you are a complete IDIOT. From the founding of the country, it has ALWAYS been INNOCENT until proven guilty. There is ZERO proof in this dumb Kavanaugh case (dumb because it revolves around an accusation of an underage teenager, who isn't even being accused of rape. Doubly stupid because her "witnesses" don't even collaborate her story.).

You think accusers should be believed without question? Tell that to these people: https://www.innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-states/

 

[WeedZ]

Can't be bothered to read all the replies but I'll put in my 2 cents and walk away.

"Accusers" should be heard and the allegations investigated. Period. INVESTIGATED.

But what the hell do you mean by "Believe the accusers"? If you are saying that they are automatically telling the truth, then you are a complete IDIOT. From the founding of the country, it has ALWAYS been INNOCENT until proven guilty. There is ZERO proof in this dumb Kavanaugh case (dumb because it revolves an accusation of an underage teenager, who isn't even being accused of rape).

You think accusers should be believed without question? Tell that to these people: https://www.innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-states/

You should read to at least the second paragraph of the op

 

[urherenow]

You should read to at least the second paragraph of the op

Oh... good. All the stuff I've been hearing and reading on social media... the title nearly gave me an aneurysm and that's as far as I got

 

[Dissaor]

I don't belive anything or anyone without proof, sorry, also all this, lets call it "accusation movement", is putting in great danger one of the pillars of criminal law, the presumption of innocence, they wanna turn it the other way around.

 

[Xzi]

Dude, I can appreciate your other arguments. But this "he's so whiny and snowflakish" thing is absurd. His professional and personal life is crumbling around him. Imagine waking up one morning. You've worked hard for this moment and are about to become a Supreme Court judge. And then you receive a phone call.

Apparently his personal relationships are suffering, etc. Listen man, you really don't get to judge him in that manner until you've actually gone through what the guy is going through.

Ford has received numerous death threats and has already been forced to move twice. Yet she didn't lose her shit and avoid answering questions like Kavanaugh did. If you want to be a supreme court justice, you have to act like one. The only reason this seems "unfair" to Kavanaugh is because he's had every advantage in life up to this point.

Hundreds of law professors agree that Kavanaugh's temperament is not fit for the supreme court:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...supreme-court-nomination-law-professor-letter

And, as I posted earlier, even Kavanaugh from 2015 agrees that judges must keep their emotions in check and remain non-partisan:

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ons-in-check-and-not-be-a-political-partisan/

Not that I expect blatant hypocrisy to slow down the GOP in the least.

As a last note: it's one thing to get emotional over potentially damaging accusations, but that's not what Kavanaugh was getting emotional about. He was crying and yelling over memories about calendars, weight lifting, and beer. There's nothing that uniquely qualifies this guy to be on the supreme court, but plenty of what we've seen should be disqualifying.

 

[Deleted User]

Ford has received numerous death threats and has already been forced to move twice. Yet she didn't lose her shit and avoid answering questions like Kavanaugh did. If you want to be a supreme court justice, you have to act like one. The only reason this seems "unfair" to Kavanaugh is because he's had every advantage in life up to this point.

Hundreds of law professors agree that Kavanaugh's temperament is not fit for the supreme court:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...supreme-court-nomination-law-professor-letter

And, as I posted earlier, even Kavanaugh from 2015 agrees that judges must keep their emotions in check and remain non-partisan:

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ons-in-check-and-not-be-a-political-partisan/

Not that I expect blatant hypocrisy to slow down the GOP in the least.

As a last note: it's one thing to get emotional over potentially damaging accusations, but that's not what Kavanaugh was getting emotional about. He was crying and yelling over memories about calendars, weight lifting, and beer. There's nothing that uniquely qualifies this guy to be on the supreme court, but plenty of what we've seen should be disqualifying.

Mate, he's been accused of rape. Ford was calm? Good for her. But again, I really feel this isn't a good way to see whether or not he's fit for the job.

 

[Xzi]

Mate, he's been accused of rape. Ford was calm? Good for her. But again, I really feel this isn't a good way to see whether or not he's fit for the job.

Senate hearings are the same way they've measured every other justice's fitness for the job. Why would we make up new rules specifically to benefit Kavanaugh? And why do you care so much about him personally? He's one of a million judges with the same type of conservative opinions.

 

[kingfrost]

Honestly, if you really want to use the 'oh but da buddy language!!' Excuse, then all indications lead to ford being the liar. My brothers a psychologist, and he says that all of the classical signs of a liar is on fords side. Ntm, but all of the people involved, even the best friend, claim that ford is really confused. Not throwing accusations or anything. Just sayin.

You are though as are most of the people in this thread. You can't just say your brother, who we have no way of knowing isn't just a mouthpiece for you, says these things and then deny any involvement in repeating them. This does bring up a great point though.

The narrative that is being made up by both sides is one of victim hood. Both sides have defenders who seem not to understand that they are doing the same thing they are calling the other side out for doing. At least, I hope they are unaware and they the political hypocrisy that is so common nowadays is unintentional.

Mr. Kavanaugh has worked in our political system for ages as an operative and as a judge. This means he has taken part in tearing down many many people, both politically and judicially. To behave in crisis as he did during his testimony would result in being held in contempt of court almost instantly and he, of all people, should know that. Emotion has no place in a member of the judicial, and Judges shouldn't be reacting in an emotional way. It seems that only counts on issues they define as emotional as opposed to being a steady guideline.

His life is no more ruined than hers. He gets no more threats then she does. It's ridiculous to pretend that this is somehow harder on him, when our nation is split and both sides are acting like immature children about it. They are both being attacked by the two different sides of the media, having everything about their personal lives splattered everywhere.

The truth lies somewhere in between the two extremes and I would love to find it. We may never get to that point as both sides tend to political hysteria nowadays. Take Mr Grahams performance on the Judiciary Committee. It was shamefully partisan and full of unproven accusations.

Indeed, it would seem to me that anyone who seriously wants to stop the accusation nature would look elsewhere than our two party system where this is prevalent on both sides. I have seen Republicans celebrate endlessly about the fall of Democrats and vice versa. Both sides have behaved shamefully.

And there are, I'm sure, good people on both sides as well.

 

[Xzi]

The truth lies somewhere in between the two extremes and I would love to find it. We may never get to that point as both sides tend to political hysteria nowadays. Take Mr Grahams performance on the Judiciary Committee. It was shamefully partisan and full of unproven accusations.

Oh the FBI will get to the truth. The report isn't going to be released to the public unless one of the senators leaks it, however. There are still reports of certain people close to Kavanaugh in his younger years being turned away for their testimony, so I think the white house is still micromanaging to some degree even though they supposedly loosened the previous restrictions. I also think a week is too short to get to all the facts one would want in a case like this, but maybe the FBI will surprise me. Either way I think we'll eventually get enough of the facts to make a judgment, even if that comes after Republicans have already shoved Kavanaugh through.

 

[kingfrost]

Can't be bothered to read all the replies but I'll put in my 2 cents and walk away.

"Accusers" should be heard and the allegations investigated. Period. INVESTIGATED.

But what the hell do you mean by "Believe the accusers"? If you are saying that they are automatically telling the truth, then you are a complete IDIOT. From the founding of the country, it has ALWAYS been INNOCENT until proven guilty. There is ZERO proof in this dumb Kavanaugh case (dumb because it revolves around an accusation of an underage teenager, who isn't even being accused of rape. Doubly stupid because her "witnesses" don't even collaborate her story.).

You think accusers should be believed without question? Tell that to these people: https://www.innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-states/

I find it funny that you used DNA to exonerate people when it is considered very unreliable in most cases. Here's just one article about it: https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/480747/

There are many more out there.

Oh the FBI will get to the truth. The report isn't going to be released to the public unless one of the senators leaks it, however. There are still reports of certain people close to Kavanaugh in his younger years being turned away for their testimony, so I think the white house is still micromanaging to some degree even though they supposedly loosened the previous restrictions. I also think a week is too short to get to all the facts one would want in a case like this, but maybe the FBI will surprise me. Either way I think we'll eventually get enough of the facts to make a judgment, even if that comes after Republicans have already shoved Kavanaugh through.

Yes and no. The FBI has been turned into a political casualty by the current administration in an attempt to insolate them from any actual investigation. This also benefits Mr. Kavanaugh as a large portion of his supporters are already predisposed to ignore the law enforcement they love so much. It's the height of double standard. With that and the "fake news" society that we now live in, anything that disagrees with you isn't real.

I do find it ironic that the conservatives in the US were the first to complain about safe spaces and now want to actually government mandate them. They want to control language, data, and the very way we think and I can't help but feel that is incredibly dangerous. I would feel that way no matter what political party was in charge, and in the past have felt that way about some of the actions taken by previous administrations.

In something as benign as California enacting its own neutrality laws, the current Administration has attacked them with unfair and unproven accusations about them wanting to harm business. Gay marriage faced unfair accusations that it would cause the end of the world.

Some victims of sexual assault are unfairly accused of asking for it. Some men are unfairly accused of sexual assault. It's a cycle and not nearly as simple as some people like to make it out.

A moment of honesty seems necessary however. Both parties will allow these people to run rampant if it improved their fortunes and they will gladly make a mockery of our government and country to do so. Republicans and Democrats are, and always have been, two sides of the same coin. This is a show for the midterms and make no mistake, if the Judges or his accuser lives are ruined by this, it comes by the hands of both parties for political ascendancy.