US troops withdrawal from Afghanistan

[ChronoTrig]

In which case, we should've left the second we realized Bin Laden wasn't in Afghanistan. We captured the entire country relatively quickly, a matter of months. For some Americans, that unfortunately meant their bloodthirst wasn't yet sated.


Yep, because one never-ending war with no clear objective just wasn't enough apparently. Iraq is going to be the same kind of shitshow whenever we decide to withdraw.


And? You think terrorists are the only ones with smartphone technology in 2021? You're not only being paranoid, but also irrational.


Well let's just bomb everywhere that Bin Laden ever visited in his lifetime then, including America since he was trained by the CIA. It's the only way we can ever truly feel safe. /s

The scope changed and became break up al-qaeda since they launched missiles back in 1998 at the embassy and were becoming a force to be reckoned with. You don't just install a bunch of people and then just up and out. What kind of message does that say? Makes it look like a mistake/weak. Instead they hung around and killed a bunch of people, helped a lot of afghanny's, and so forth. It really is sad we just up and left like that, cause I have a ton of friends who died in that war which now looks extremely pointless. Now I know how Vietnam vets feel. All for nothing but casualties.

Like I said, Bush wanted to go to Iraq to finish his father's mistake which was to kill Saddam. Everyone has ulterior motives.

 

[jimbo13]

You made the statement, you are required to back it up. As per the normal for you, you think shifting responsibility is enough to get me to stop asking you for sources. So again, got any sources, or are just going to continue to pretend your inflated ego is source enough?

You have no requirements I feel obliged to meet, your are more than capable of googling the Trump administrations negotiations with the Taliban and timeline for withdrawal.

As per the normal for you, you will feign or have legitimate ignorance of matters of basic current events and have no other retort than think it's others jobs to research news for you. That's called laziness, were not engaging that today. There are more interesting world affairs than engaging you. Such as Biden's administration ending humanitarian crisis.

 

[ChronoTrig]

Right, it remains the first platform for political activism for a lot of people, sadly.

My point is that most of the Taliban's ideals of society represent everything the left despises (rightfully so), but 10 times more hardcore. We're not talking about offending words or mansplaining or misrepresentation of power in companies. Women have absolutely no rights.
The Sharia that you can still see some fucking idiots defend on social media means death for all of us LGBT.

And yet, there are still people here who'd rather bring up Trump as a scapegoat (in this case, IT IS) to attempt to justify the Democrats swift withdrawal in full knowledge of the consequences.
Because sure, we all hate Trump, Trump did so much wrong, so let's talk about Trump again and not about the hypocrites we are. Whataboutism is the weapon of blind partisanship.

And yes, It IS a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but in this case, one is a little more damned.
Sure, feel free to complain to every other country for not doing shit (or not enough about it), ask for financial help, pressure them into helping, but leaving a population on its own after protecting it for so long is not something anyone who cares about human rights should agree with.

Fully agreed with you. I feel for the families who had Americans as protection and now they're basically ready for an onslaught.

 

[Xzi]

You don't just install a bunch of people and then just up and out.

Why not? As I said before, the result was going to be the same whether we stayed a week or a hundred years. The region had been at war for centuries before the USA even came into being, thus the Taliban are experts at waiting out occupying forces. It was always a lost cause. I knew that even as a teenager, which is why I participated in protests against going into Afghanistan and Iraq.

Like I said, Bush wanted to go to Iraq to finish his father's mistake which was to kill Saddam. Everyone has ulterior motives.

That's called a war crime, and I maintain that Obama's biggest failure was not prosecuting GWB and Cheney for it. They knowingly lied to us about the WMDs, too.

 

[The Catboy]

You have no requirements I feel obliged to meet, your are more than capable of googling the Trump administrations negotiations with the Taliban and timeline for withdrawal.

As per the normal for you, you will feign or have legitimate ignorance of matters of basic current events and have no other retort than think it's others jobs to research news for you. That's called laziness, were not engaging that today. There are more interesting world affairs than engaging you. Such as Biden's administration ending humanitarian crisis.

Sources would be nice, but I did Google that and it seems most articles are reporting his negotiations as not really helping and even linking them to being a problem for Biden. There's a mix bag of results but it doesn't seem like Trump's negotiations really helped much
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03xJZ3Ge8tiyiF4vBMrKiRgijAFiQ:1629092391961&q=Trump+administration's+negotiations+with+the+Taliban&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDu9CK6rTyAhXNZs0KHaDMB9AQBSgAegQIARAx&biw=1920&bih=865
Additionally, my point still doesn't change. Trump continued the same war throughout his administration, Trump is still part of the problem for continuing the war.

 

[DoubleDate]

You've apparently not heard of a little organization that goes by the name of NSA. Literally all online and phone traffic runs through their massive server center buried under Utah. If you ask me, we trade too much freedom for this sense of security, but it is what it is.


Pakistan also didn't care that they were playing host to Bin Laden, yet we didn't invade that country and stick around for twenty years. You haven't even clarified what benefit you think sticking around in Afghanistan would actually bring us. Our continued military presence there did nothing but serve as a persistent recruitment ad for the Taliban.

The NSA? What a joke. They are monitoring what COULD be monitored, that is why the extremist use extreme measures so that their messages doesnt come under the US or any other country authorities. If the NSA could intercept all the messages, a lot of them wouldn't be using high end to end user encrypted messengers like Telegram. Goodluck trying to unlock those kind of messages. The only way they could get acces is if its an Android Phone or an easy to hack Iphone, other than that there is no way to gain acces.

As i said earlier, i didn't agree with the whole invasion, but you forget something: after 911 whole America were cheering and clapping to go there and when nothing was found it was called an utter failure.

Pakistan Isn't friendly with the US, so you are right there that they didn't care. Its not like the US and Pakistan are best friends, so it wasn't in their interest to cooperate with the US.

The thing is, that with the military there, we might have prevented any attack on any Western grounds, since extremist are looking for ways to harm the west.

Look now how Afghanistan is, at least women were doing better, girl were having a chance for a better future, everything gone in the drain now. Tney dont care about any good value due to their practice. If they did things good without any bloodshed, i would say Goodluck Afghanistan, but that is not the case sadly.

You may say whatever you want, nothing is gonna change that by the action of Biden, a lot of people will sadly face a very bad situation. People dont care until it happens close to home.

The safety of humanity is what counts, and barbaric acts has no place in this day and age.

 

[ChronoTrig]

Why not? As I said before, the result was going to be the same whether we stayed a week or a hundred years. The region had been at war for centuries before the USA even came into being, thus the Taliban are experts at waiting out occupying forces. It was always a lost cause. I knew that even as a teenager, which is why I participated in protests against going into Afghanistan and Iraq.


That's called a war crime, and I maintain that Obama's biggest failure was not prosecuting GWB and Cheney for it. They knowingly lied to us about the WMDs, too.

Region may have been at war but we weren't the target years and years ago. We were becoming the target and again, we need to hold the power and respect, you start destroying our property we will not tolerate that. Osama gave more reason to invade and break up the al-qaeda / Taliban.
You do realize what would've happened if we didn't retaliate after the towers came down, right? I'll answer that for you since I'm getting a little sleepy now. They would've kept destroying us piece by piece in many ways. It's why congress said GO. Went there and dropped a lot of their forces, mitigated a lot of what would've been issues that didn't happen. Yes, we had a ton of casualties and it seems very pointless... but we accomplished something for a time being. Now we have drones and I'm sure they'll use the drones to continue bombing them without the need of forces..... but, they now have our resources cause they sloppily left them behind.

Forgot about the Obama comment.. I'm sure there's reasons behind the scene you nor I know about for why those things didn't occur. You'll probably see why in another 40 years when it no longer matters at all and everyone who was apart of it then will be dead. Obama had his part in a lot of drone fun too.

 

[MikaDubbz]

While the President went on another Vacation AGAIN

I find points like this ironic when George W took by far the most vacations of any president ever, and Trump both had more vacation days than Obama, but also had the most costly to the American taxpayers in vacation costs at $144 million (and that's just what's known). Funny how people want to apply the faults of their guy to the other side's guy when they aren't in control. Like maybe if they point out that this guy has taken some vacations, we'll all forget that their last guy was by far the worst US president offender in this department thus far.

 

[jimbo13]

Sources would be nice, but I did Google that and it seems most articles are reporting his negotiations as not really helping and even linking them to being a problem for Biden. There's a mix bag of results but it doesn't seem like Trump's negotiations really helped much
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03xJZ3Ge8tiyiF4vBMrKiRgijAFiQ:1629092391961&q=Trump+administration's+negotiations+with+the+Taliban&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDu9CK6rTyAhXNZs0KHaDMB9AQBSgAegQIARAx&biw=1920&bih=865
Additionally, my point still doesn't change. Trump continued the same war for the majority for his administration, Trump is still part of the problem for continuing the war.

Oh gee you mean your google algorithm score is giving you results skewed to the opinions you already hold, which is exactly mine is going to do which would simply open the door the door to circular arguments and adhominem complaints about my sources.

Congratulations, now you see why I decided you unworthy of giving a fish to.

If it weren't for Trump no withdrawal would be taking place, you had no point you had an opinion.

 

[Xzi]

If the NSA could intercept all the messages, a lot of them wouldn't be using high end to end user encrypted messengers like Telegram.

Telegram is owned by Facebook now, it's far from the best example to use when talking about secure communication methods.

As i said earlier, i didn't agree with the whole invasion, but you forget something: after 911 whole America were cheering and clapping to go there and when nothing was found it was called an utter failure.

America was divided as ever over going to war with Afghanistan, and even fewer Americans supported jumping from that war to the next in Iraq. A lot of people on TV (mostly Democrats) correctly predicted a catastrophic end to our involvement in these countries.

The thing is, that with the military there, we might have prevented any attack on any Western grounds, since extremist are looking for ways to harm the west.

If anything, we only created even more anti-American sentiment during our time there. Several generations worth.

Look now how Afghanistan is, at least women were doing better, girl were having a chance for a better future, everything gone in the drain now. Tney dont care about any good value due to their practice. If they did things good without any bloodshed, i would say Goodluck Afghanistan, but that is not the case sadly.

Yeah, I definitely feel for women stuck under Sharia law. Canada has offered to take 20,000 women leaders and professionals from Afghanistan, but at this point I'm not sure how easy it would be to get them out in time.

 

[The Catboy]

Oh gee you mean your google algorithm score is giving you results skewed to the opinions you already hold, which is exactly mine is going to do which would simply open the door the door to circular arguments and adhominem complaints about my sources.

Congratulations, now you see why I decided you unworthy of giving a fish to.

If it weren't for Trump no withdrawal would be taking place, you had no point you had an opinion.

So you just don't have any sources, just a massive ego. The same searches came up when using TOR, so it seems that reality doesn't quite match up with your claims. Since you don't seem to have any sources, I am just going to say that they simply don't exist. Why can't you provide any sources for any of your posts? Every single time you are asked for sources, you dodge the request or just say some fluff about how you don't have to provide them or something like that. You don't seem to have any sources, ever. It's easier to assume you are either making stuff up or don't actually trust your sources enough to share them.
Again, what are your sources for your previous claim? This shouldn't be so hard to ask you to provide a single link to back up your claim.

 

[Xzi]

You do realize what would've happened if we didn't retaliate after the towers came down, right?

I didn't say there shouldn't have been any retaliation, but we should've at least retaliated against the people/countries that were actually involved. Ultimately we sent in one team of Navy Seals to assassinate Bin Laden. If we had just done that in the first place, we could've saved trillions of dollars and millions of lives. Retaliation against Saudi Arabia was always unlikely, but it's absolutely ludicrous that the GWB administration let Saudi royals fly out of the US when all other air travel was locked down. That should've been a huge red flag that we were being lied to about the perpetrators.

Forgot about the Obama comment.. I'm sure there's reasons behind the scene you nor I know about for why those things didn't occur.

As the first black president, he didn't want to rock the boat too much. That ended up causing him to be too timid/moderate on a number of issues, and thus the reason his presidency was a pretty big disappointment to a lot of progressives.

 

[jimbo13]

So you just don't have any sources, just a massive ego. The same searches came up when using TOR, so it seems that reality doesn't quite match up with your claims. Since you don't seem to have any sources, I am just going to say that they simply don't exist. Why can't you provide any sources for any of your posts? Every single time you are asked for sources, you dodge the request or just say some fluff about how you don't have to provide them or something like that. You don't seem to have any sources, ever. It's easier to assume you are either making stuff up or don't actually trust your sources enough to share them.
Again, what are your sources for your previous claim? This shouldn't be so hard to ask you to provide a single link to back up your claim.

Because I am not going to waste my time digging through miles of news stories to find an impartial source with a hard link of a basic current event no one with common sense is disputing. If Fox news claimed the earth was round you would bitch it was from Fox news and change the subject to a page long tirade about Tucker Carlson.

If I post a AP story that happens to be uploaded to a modern platform such as Youtube or a Twitter feed of senate bills for example I have to engage an endless circular argument with your derpity ass because people don't understand the difference between a platform and a source.

You wont engage the information of a story, you wont cross check it with sources you trust. You will forgo any responsibility of examining the information to adhominem attacks about not liking the source or the platform and declare the earth is flat if you didn't see the exact same characterization on whatever left wing rags populate your feed.

 

[DoubleDate]

Telegram is owned by Facebook now, it's far from the best example to use when talking about secure communication methods.


America was divided as ever over going to war with Afghanistan, and even fewer Americans supported jumping from that war to the next in Iraq. A lot of people on TV (mostly Democrats) correctly predicted a catastrophic end to our involvement in these countries.


If anything, we only created even more anti-American sentiment during our time there. Several generations worth.


Yeah, I definitely feel for women stuck under Sharia law. Canada has offered to take 20,000 women leaders and professionals from Afghanistan, but at this point I'm not sure how easy it would be to get them out in time.

Facebook may own Telegram, yet the encryption is still in place, if i remember, Telegram said that they had no plan to give any information or share any of its encryption with any authorities, the chance of message cracking by Facebook is unlikely. Same with Whatsapp, lots of weird folks in there and if something comes up it because the user or anyone in a chat group decided to talk, not because the authorities did find something. I remember some cases where the police acted like they were an interested customer to buy Guns or anything that is against the law, they made an appointment and went full arrest mode. If they were checking all the traffic, wouldn't they know were the messages comes from and arrest the inviduals? Exactly, there is no NSA spying on those apps.

No they werent more anti American, they always hated the west. Have you forgotten about the WTC attack in 1993? Or the military boat suicide attack in 2000? I remember reading somewhere that Mohammed Atta ( Hijacker pilot flight 11) Was jumping and laughing when he heard about that attack, and that was way before the US went to war for retailation on the WTC.

The attack with Airplanes originated somewhere around in 1995 or earlier, so they had already murderious plans. Doesn't matter if the US did or Didn't go, the end result is those extremist would tried another way to harm the US.

I hope that those woman will have a chance to leave, that country is just a mess and the worst place for a woman to be. They dont have respect for them. I pray for a miracle and that something happen and those extremist just dissapear from the face of the Earth. Live and let live.

 

[Xzi]

If they were checking all the traffic, wouldn't they know were the messages comes from and arrest the inviduals?

Yes...that's how it works. We get news of terrorist cells being busted like this quite often. OTOH, it's a lot harder to track individuals that carry out attacks without any prior planning or communication with others. For example, white supremacists that post a manifesto right before opening fire on a church, grocery store, etc.

No they werent more anti American, they always hated the west.

Killing peoples' friends and family right in front of their eyes does tend to have a way of enraging people to their limit. Obviously not everybody in Afghanistan was sympathetic to the Taliban before we invaded, so a US military presence always had the potential to drive up recruitment for them.

The attack with Airplanes originated somewhere around in 1995 or earlier, so they had already murderious plans. Doesn't matter if the US did or Didn't go, the end result is those extremist would tried another way to harm the US.

At this point you're just lumping all terrorists together and assuming they all originated in Afghanistan. We've got homegrown religious fundamentalists/extremists right here in the US, and they pose a much larger threat than a group across the ocean with no navy/air force to speak of.

 

[The Catboy]

Because I am not going to waste my time digging through miles of news stories to find an impartial source with a hard link of a basic current event no one with common sense is disputing. If Fox news claimed the earth was round you would bitch it was from Fox news and change the subject to a page long tirade about Tucker Carlson.

If I post a AP story that happens to be uploaded to a modern platform such as Youtube or a Twitter feed of senate bills for example I have to engage an endless circular argument with your derpity ass because people don't understand the difference between a platform and a source.

You wont engage the information of a story, you wont cross check it with sources you trust. You will forgo any responsibility of examining the information to adhominem attacks about not liking the source or the platform and declare the earth is flat if you didn't see the exact same characterization on whatever left wing rags populate your feed.

Waffling with no source, tragic. Can't even manage to find one link to back up your claim. So you going to provide any sources or just continue waffling about? I am not asking for anymore more than a single link.

 

[jimbo13]

Waffling with no source, tragic. Can't even manage to find one link to back up your claim. So you going to provide any sources or just continue waffling about? I am not asking for anymore more than a single link.

A source for what? I am the source of why I don't waste my time googling common knowledge for your uninformed tantrums.

 

[DoubleDate]

Yes...that's how it works. We get news of terrorist cells being busted like this quite often. OTOH, it's a lot harder to track individuals that carry out attacks without any prior planning or communication with others. For example, white supremacists that post a manifesto right before opening fire on a church, grocery store, etc.


Killing peoples' friends and family right in front of their eyes does tend to have a way of enraging people to their limit. Obviously not everybody in Afghanistan was sympathetic to the Taliban before we invaded, so a US military presence always had the potential to drive up recruitment for them.


At this point you're just lumping all terrorists together and assuming they all originated in Afghanistan. We've got homegrown religious fundamentalists/extremists right here in the US, and they pose a much larger threat than a group across the ocean with no navy/air force to speak of.

Yeah it might work for certain apps, but not the ones with end to end user encryptions. If that was the case the authorities wouldn't even bother to ask Apple to unlock phones, the FBI couldnt even unlock a phone from one of the Chatanooga shooters a few years back. If they post things on Facebook, Instagram, any other platform without end to end chances are indeed that it gets cracked, on that one i agree.

Again, before the US invasion, Afghanistan was a brewing place for extremist, many were training there. Many people were tired then of them and were relieved that they were saved by the US invasion. Since the invasion in 2001, Afghanistan made progress to do something different because they were not forced to do things that they didnt want to do. As i said, i dont agree with the invasion but it helped the nation and now the are back to square one. I do think that if Biden didnt leave abruptly and left in a certain way that the Afghan authorities could take it from there, we wouldve seen a different approach than what we have now.

No, on the contrary. Im not lumping them together, but sinces most attacks came from Iraq, Libanon, Afghanistan, and a few others who some got direct orders from Osama in Afghanistan during tje 90's and trained in camps there, its to say that they didnt came from the West, or did they? Most got training at camps in Afghanistan, you can search it up.

Since early 90's attacks have been on the rise, there are documentaires where you can read up how many came from training grounds in Afghanistan.

And as i said, things will repeat itself. More extremist will go there, the one there will not care and the West will caught up in this mess.

 

[The Catboy]

A source for what? I am the source of why I don't waste my time googling common knowledge for your uninformed tantrums.

A simple link to back up this claim.

Trump negotiated a peaceful withdrawal, your welcome and obviously you do care what else would you have to pout about.

I do want to add that I am not a Liberal nor a Democrat.

 

[jimbo13]

A simple link to back up this claim.

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=Trum+negotiates+withdrawal+from+afghanistan