It's no secret that of late some developers opt to order a batch of small capacity Switch cartridges and force mandatory downloads on users for games that are large in file size (such as Doom or L.A. Noire), arguably killing the point of physical media. The reason for this is cost as small capacity cartridges cost less than large ones. The good thing about this is that the prices are not too overpriced compared to the prices of those games when they were released on other platforms. The other route would be when developers chose to fit the entire game in a large capacity cartridge without requiring a mandatory download from the eShop. The downside of this is that it results in what is known as "Switch tax", games sold for more to offset the cost of large cartridges. Currently the maximum capacity for Switch cartridges is 32GB.

In any event, games won't become smaller over time and seeing the trend of large PC/PS4/XBone games ported to the Switch, it has to be expected that mandatory downloads for physical media won't go away anytime soon. Especially not since a recent report from The Wall Street Journal suggests that Nintendo has delayed the Roll-Out of 64GB Switch cartridges to 2019 that were originally scheduled for release during the second half of 2018. Apparently Nintendo had some technical issues that impacted the quality of the final media and needs more time to resolve those issues.

The question now for the average joe is whether or not this will impact third-party releases. Developers whose games are larger than 32GB could either wait til 64GB cartridges are available, delaying their releases in the process (although that's very unlikely in my opinion), or ship their games in small capacity cartridges and require a large mandatory download from the eShop. Another question is whether or not developers care at all about 64GB cartridges since they would presumably and significantly cost more than existing ones, making it not worth it for them from a financial standpoint.

What do you think about it? Do you prefer games being shipped in a single cartridge without requiring a large download, no matter the cost, or do you not care if half of the game from a cartridge has to be downloaded as long as the price is reasonable?

Source

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Im with ya. how about having the game install to the sd card? or decompress the required files on the fly. Star ocean did that on the Snes with a special chip. The switch is more then capable to do on the fly decompression.

No it isn't. In order to compress modern game data, to a point to make even a little dent in actual size, would require extremely complicated compression algos that even a high end CPU would take some time to decompress. See my earlier comment about Fitgirl PC repacks, it still applies to a similar degree even for just a couple gigs worth of compression.

This isn't the 90s anymore, most data is too complex to compress without serious computational power required, and the Switch is quite lacking in that department with it's underclocked ARM CPU.

 

[Captain_N]

No it isn't. In order to compress modern game data, to a point to make even a little dent in actual size, would require extremely complicated compression algos that even a high end CPU would take some time to decompress. See my earlier comment about Fitgirl PC repacks, it still applies to a similar degree even for just a couple gigs worth of compression.

This isn't the 90s anymore, most data is too complex to compress without serious computational power required, and the Switch is quite lacking in that department with it's underclocked ARM CPU.

What about using compression then having it install to system memory or sd card?

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

What about using compression then having it install to system memory or sd card?

That would just result in huge install times, depending on how much compression is used and the SD card speeds, which is something everyone and their grandma complains about with the PS4/XBoner physical games.

If it were only like a gig or two, maybe 20 minutes or so. But if it were substantial, like 5+gb, probably 1.5-2 hours at best, if not more because of the shit ARM CPU.

For most people, it's honestly better to just have the separate download time, cuz it'd more than likely be quicker than decompressing a bunch of data to a potentially slow SD card.

 

[Captain_N]

That would just result in huge install times, depending on how much compression is used and the SD card speeds, which is something everyone and their grandma complains about with the PS4/XBoner physical games.

If it were only like a gig or two, maybe 20 minutes or so. But if it were substantial, like 5+gb, probably 1.5-2 hours at best, if not more because of the shit ARM CPU.

For most people, it's honestly better to just have the separate download time, cuz it'd more than likely be quicker than decompressing a bunch of data to a potentially slow SD card.

Remember these are the same noobs complaining that they have to walk over and place a disc in the console....

 

[geodeath]

That sounds like a huge compromise that wouldn't be worth it for what is essentially a portable.

Not really. Seeing how many people are 'fine' with games that require downloads anyway - even though the cart size is there! - it seems like a fine strategy. Install at home if you are a physical media fan, or even - look! a new thing! a code with your physical disc! - so you can download although you own the media. In essence, buying the game physically gives you a digital copy too, in much the same way they did with films or you can simply download it and forget physical.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Modern day game data is already compressed from the get-go, not like in the SNES times.
Texture data uses texture compression by default that is decompressed by hardware on the GPU, music is not sampled and stored as RAW data, but is usually already stored compressed using AAC or similar codecs, video and images are not stored RAW but compressed as H264, JPEG, etc.

Because of this, you are trying to compress further already compressed data, not like in the SNES days. The additional compression you could gain with more complex algorithms vastly pales compared to the additional computing power required. You are already on far into the decreasing returns side of compression. And the data is already near the border of how much it could theoretically compress, unless you are willing to lose additional data in the lossy compression algorithms involved.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Not really. Seeing how many people are 'fine' with games that require downloads anyway - even though the cart size is there! - it seems like a fine strategy. Install at home if you are a physical media fan, or even - look! a new thing! a code with your physical disc! - so you can download although you own the media. In essence, buying the game physically gives you a digital copy too, in much the same way they did with films or you can simply download it and forget physical.

That's pretty anecdotal, seeing as how you can't really quantify "many" people. I still think it would cripple the functionality as not only would the switch have to switch between two completely different medias, the developer would then have to hope the owner has bought enough storage to play their game on portable. Seeing as how the only games that really require downloads are 2k18 and DOOM, both games can still be played without the download, just DOOM's multiplayer is locked out, that's a far better compromise for storage than completely locking out the game to either home or portable, just for the sake of storage costs. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

That's pretty anecdotal, seeing as how you can't really quantify "many" people. I still think it would cripple the functionality as not only would the switch have to switch between two completely different medias, the developer would then have to hope the owner has bought enough storage to play their game on portable. Seeing as how the only games that really require downloads are 2k18 and DOOM, both games can still be played without the download, just DOOM's multiplayer is locked out, that's a far better compromise for storage than completely locking out the game to either home or portable, just for the sake of storage costs. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

You forgot LA Noire, Resident Evil Revelations 1&2, and WWE 2K18, all three require downloads to play. RE:R2 isn't even on the cartridge when you buy the physical version of 1&2, you have to download the entire 25GB of it if you want to play it.

If you think only a few games are going to require downloads, you're definitely mistaken. Games have been getting bigger and bigger file sizes for the past few years, and publishers aren't going to just lose out on potential profit because they have to pay for more expensive per GB higher capacity Switch cartridges.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

You forgot LA Noire, Resident Evil Revelations 1&2, and WWE 2K18, all three require downloads to play. RE:R2 isn't even on the cartridge when you buy the physical version of 1&2, you have to download the entire 25GB of it if you want to play it.

If you think only a few games are going to require downloads, you're definitely mistaken. Games have been getting bigger and bigger file sizes for the past few years, and publishers aren't going to just lose out on potential profit because they have to pay for more expensive per GB higher capacity Switch cartridges.

Ah, didn't know about L.A noire and RE. Still however, they don't really represent the majority. And to quote myself:
"both games can still be played without the download, just DOOM's multiplayer is locked out, that's a far better compromise for storage than completely locking out the game to either home or portable"

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Ah, didn't know about L.A noire and RE. Still however, they don't really represent the majority. And to quote myself:
"both games can still be played without the download, just DOOM's multiplayer is locked out, that's a far better compromise for storage than completely locking out the game to either home or portable"

And two games out of 5 somehow represents the majority? K.

I wouldn't even call NBA2K18's physical version a "full game", all you can do is bog standard exhibition matches which have 0 impact on the actual progress of the game. Doom did it right, NBA2K18 not so much.

Face it, third party publishers will never pay for expensive cartridges when digital downloads are a viable option. It's been that way for the PS4 and XBoner, and now that Nintendo has a console potentially worth developing for it's gonna be that way for them, too.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

And two games out of 5 somehow represents the majority? K.

I wouldn't even call NBA2K18's physical version a "full game", all you can do is bog standard exhibition matches which have 0 impact on the actual progress of the game. Doom did it right, NBA2K18 not so much.

Face it, third party publishers will never pay for expensive cartridges when digital downloads are a viable option. It's been that way for the PS4 and XBoner, and now that Nintendo has a console potentially worth developing for it's gonna be that way for them, too.

I never said they did, please don't put words in my mouth (I meant all switch games, which you haven't addressed). And please read my whole statement.
" far better compromise for storage than completely locking out the game to either home or portable, just for the sake of storage costs."

Having part of the game on a memory card and the other part on external storage is better than having it on one of the two at the cost of portability, that was my argument.

"Face it, third party publishers will never pay for expensive cartridges when digital downloads are a viable option. It's been that way for the PS4 and XBoner, and now that Nintendo has a console potentially worth developing for it's gonna be that way for them, too."

I'd rather actually see the future pan itself out than make assumptions. I have no issues if it goes that way either, as long as the seamless nature of the switch isn't hindered or compromised.

 

[geodeath]

That's pretty anecdotal, seeing as how you can't really quantify "many" people. I still think it would cripple the functionality as not only would the switch have to switch between two completely different medias, the developer would then have to hope the owner has bought enough storage to play their game on portable. Seeing as how the only games that really require downloads are 2k18 and DOOM, both games can still be played without the download, just DOOM's multiplayer is locked out, that's a far better compromise for storage than completely locking out the game to either home or portable, just for the sake of storage costs. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

I would agree with you if these were the only games but i am seeing the white band with the 'download required' message more and more when i visit the local shop. If i am not mistaken, Resident Evil needs it too. Won't be long until more and more do it, just to cut cost on the cartridge, as it is already happening. Let's see where it goes.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

That's pretty anecdotal, seeing as how you can't really quantify "many" people. I still think it would cripple the functionality as not only would the switch have to switch between two completely different medias, the developer would then have to hope the owner has bought enough storage to play their game on portable. Seeing as how the only games that really require downloads are 2k18 and DOOM, both games can still be played without the download, just DOOM's multiplayer is locked out, that's a far better compromise for storage than completely locking out the game to either home or portable, just for the sake of storage costs. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Also, when i say 'many' obviously i cannot quantify, but i am shocked by the amount of people that do not find the concept of 'buy physical yet download necessary' shocking, or digital only distribution only as a fine option. People seem to be ok in 'general' with this in a lot of the discussions i get into here or in console gaming related fb groups, so yeah, they are 'many'. Do not expect me to find numbers for you, just saying what i come across. Wish it was different!

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

I would agree with you if these were the only games but i am seeing the white band with the 'download required' message more and more when i visit the local shop. If i am not mistaken, Resident Evil needs it too. Won't be long until more and more do it, just to cut cost on the cartridge, as it is already happening. Let's see where it goes.

I don't really have much issue with games needing a part download rather than separating the game into two media, like the PS4 and Xbox do. But yeah, it's better to see how things go moving forward.

Also, when i say 'many' obviously i cannot quantify, but i am shocked by the amount of people that do not find the concept of 'buy physical yet download necessary' shocking, or digital only distribution only as a fine option. People seem to be ok in 'general' with this in a lot of the discussions i get into here or in console gaming related fb groups, so yeah, they are 'many'. Do not expect me to find numbers for you, just saying what i come across. Wish it was different!

Ah sorry if it seemed like I wanted you to quantify. But yeah, I don't really have any issues either, of course, it would be far better if the entire game was on the cartridge but isn't really financially feasible, I understand that.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I don't really have much issue with games needing a part download rather than separating the game into two media, like the PS4 and Xbox do.

Wut?

The XB1 and PS4 also do part downloads. E.g.: Halo Masterchef collection.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Wut?

The XB1 and PS4 also do part downloads. E.g.: Halo Masterchef collection.

I mean in general, the entire game is written to the HDD, unless I'm wrong?

 

[Kioku]

I mean in general, the entire game is written to the HDD, unless I'm wrong?

Nope. You're right.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I mean in general, the entire game is written to the HDD, unless I'm wrong?

Oh, I thought you meant part of the game was on a BluRay, and part of the game was in yet another BluRay.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Oh, I thought you meant part of the game was on a BluRay, and part of the game was in yet another BluRay.

Nope, sorry for confusing you, I'm a little vague sometimes with the way I write.

 

[Nimrod-002]

there is absolutely no reason for any game to be over 32gb, i dig into the game files of almost every game i install and without exception i never find a big game deserving of its install size. for example Final fantasy 13 was lauded for being huge jusst because its uses a 50gb bluray. well YOU CAN FIT THAT GAME on a DVD. its a 4gb file containg every asset , and a copy of the same 4gb file and an over 30gb folder containg FMVs with way too high a bitrate. second example Tomb Raider on PS3 over two thirds of that game install is just Trailers and interviews to pad the game size so Noobs wuldnt thiink its a small game.

 

[foob]

The logic of the internet never fails to bemuse me.

We have the Switch; a handheld console, with a screen, that runs off battery, that is portable. Ofc it runs off cartridges, every handheld ever has run off cartridges but one, and that used propriety UMD's and we all know how well they went down.

I love UMD. It was released when flash storage was far more expensive and allowed for the best sound and visuals in a gaming portable, allowing for low game replication costs for Sony, all in a portable that did incredibly well for Sony considering it:

1) cost more than the competing DS
2) packed so much more tech inside, including licensed MPEG4, ushering in a new era of widescreen portable hardware long before anyone else
3) had no backwards compatibility with anything, unlike early DS and DS Lite units, which makes the respectable sales even more impressive

By contrast, DS had horrid sound and visuals that seemed like stone-age technology, due to the use of expensive cartidges necessitating low quality content compromises. Nintendo's 'difference' or unique selling point was their touchscreen. Nintendo don't have any expertise in optical, let alone know how to make an optical drive small & power-efficient and foist it on the masses in a reliable portable like Sony can.

Anyway, I still think the UMD was an excellent choice today. Sony's mistake was calling UMD Universal, and pushing the envelope more than people were willing to pay for the Vita. Subsidizing far more expensive hardware with overpriced proprietary flash storage is so last decade. But I love UMD.