Believe Accusers!

[Greymane]

imo, believe holds no place in a court of law, facts and evidence do.
If believe is all that is needed to convict or free people, you might as well do away with courts and laws and let anarchy reign.
Cause what is the purpose of it all at that point? Hoping you get it right once a while?

 

[Deleted User]

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. On the one hand I agree that at the principal of it, she shouldn't even had been allowed through the front gates. And besides that two other guys claimed that she was mistaken and one of those two did it. don't say that they were paid off, cause then I could say SHE was paid off.

But on the other hand, i feel like we're making a mountain out of a molehill. This is a congressional hearing. The guy isn't gonna go to jail. Not to mention, but as @Xzi mentioned, this is a lifetime position. If there was a hint that the guy had done any kind of felony, criminal activity etc. then yeah, of course it should be looked into.

I guess I think it went too far. She should've gotten her say and then be dismissed for having no evidence.

Instead this could mess up the guys career.

 

[Taleweaver]

I unfortunately knew it would come to this eventually.

The whole #metoo movement is rapidly spinning out of control. I've just read an article on jezebel.com that...well...implicitly outlaws anything regarding relationships if you look closely into it (it's about the accusation of Jack Smith). The stakes are obviously much higher here. and it's pretty much impossible to do anything but believing either side. The facts are from THE FREAKING EIGHTIES!!! Honestly: what kind of evidence would an FBI investigation turn up, really? You know the answer to this: nothing but wasted time. Time that's very valuable, for that mid-midterm election thing.

You know I hate Trump as much as the rest of the non-US world, but I can't fault him for pinning this on democrats (even though Blasey Ford is technically politically independent). Republicans blame democrats for abusing #metoo to sabotage their government governing tasks (and they'll be right, in their way). Democrats blame republicans for trying to put an accused sex abuser in place (and they'll be right, in their way).


...but for me personally, I choose to believe Ford. She should've gone to the police LAST FREAKING CENTURY but that doesn't mean I think she lied.

EDIT: I'm an image thinker. Combine that with stupid series like cold case, CSI cyber, CSI and the like, and I can just about picture how this'll go...


Older veteran character: okay, crew: listen up. You've seen the news: Ford has accused Kavanaugh of rape in the '80s. She's about to testify next friday. Kavanaugh claims to be innocent. More importantly: Kavanaugh is to be made judge for life in three days. That means we've got to find out who's lying before then!
*instant swap to the street*
cop 1: this should be the place where the alleged accusations happened. They must've entered here...
*insert sepia shot where two 80s-dressed characters walk in without sound whatsoever*
cop 2: and this is where he allegedly thrown her on the bed.
*zoom in on the wood...that has A SCRATCH, implying that this came from the rape 34 years ago*
*meanwhile*
nerdy investigator: chief? You want to come here for a second. We've got something.
Veteran character: okay...what have you got?
nerdy investigator 2: as you can see from the insertion traces you'll see a detriment in the aging process of the inner membrane. Moreso, we've been able to extract some residu of live organic tissue that isn't created by the host and in age matches the date of...
Veteran character: in English please?
nerdy investigator 2: this piece on her clitoris means that she had forcefull sex about 34 years ago. We also extracted some sperm from that time...but we cannot prove that it belongs to Kavanaugh.
nerdy investigator 1: damn it. She could've been raped by ANYONE! Kavanaugh will never consent to submitting a DNA sample, seeing how it could be used to prove his guilt.
*zoom in on chief's head*
Veteran character: this calls for swift and diplomatic action. I'll ask for the full co-operation from the highest level authorities!
*flash to another situation*
Donald Trump (on television): it's NOT TRUE! Not! True! It's so not true that it's lying. LY-ING! They're the Federal Bureau of Investigation. They're democrats. It's true! They've planted it there themselves!
Chief of Veteran character: damn it! This whole thing has gone political. You've got to solve this NOW! Can you handle it?
Veteran character *with dramatic music*: I always solve my cases!

*insert commercial break*

...and so on, and so on.

 

[Xzi]

Just a quick note here for anyone unaware: Neil Gorsuch attended the exact same high school as Brett Kavanaugh, yet Gorsuch was confirmed with basically no fuss and no sexual assault accusers. Big shocker, turns out if you keep things consensual then shit like this can't come back to haunt you later. The only people afraid or angry at the MeToo movement are the ones with skeletons in their closets. If you're just some Joe Schmoe then it's likely nobody would care anyway, but attempting to become a supreme court justice is obviously going to run a spotlight through your life.

 

[JiveTheTurkey]

Relevant

Jesus! Why does that feel like something that was made just yesterday? How old is that episode?

 

[Joe88]

Jesus! Why does that feel like something that was made just yesterday? How old is that episode?

November of 1994, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_Badman

 

[Hanafuda]

The accusers want an FBI investigation because they know their testimony will hold up under threat of perjury. Kavanaugh and the Republicans don't want an FBI investigation because they know the exact opposite is true for him.
.

The FBI doesn't investigate criminal accusations where it has no jurisdiction. No federal crime was alleged here. Only juvenile misconduct. In the context of Supreme Court nominations, the FBI performs background checks. The Ford allegation was appended to Kavanaugh's background check last week, then sent to the White House and Senate Judiciary committee, along with a statement from the FBI that there was no federal crime alleged, so they were done with it. The Senate Judiciary Committee is the fact finder in this proceeding.

An FBI investigation was conducted during the Thomas confirmation hearings, because Anita Hill alleged a federal offense.

 

[ken28]

--

 

[sarkwalvein]

I'm not sure if people are being sarcastic or they don't notice the OP is against all this social executions without proof or facts.

Oh, the shortcomings of written communication.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

Studies have shown approx. 4% of accusations of sexual misconduct tend to be false (margin of error makes it more like 2-8%).

A lot of people try and dismiss 100% of accusations, leading to dividing families in cases of familial harassment, or putting the victim in a situation where they stand accused of lying even though they're statistically much less likely to be lying than telling the truth, as evidenced by recent studies. We should not lean either way, but we should hear out the accuser and at least give them a chance to come forward. Many victims are too traumatized to even do that much, or still scared of their assailant. The reason I think MeToo has been a somewhat decent movement is that it's given people a voice and motivation to come forward with something they may not have otherwise found the courage to. If it led to a spike in false allegations, it's still likely nominal in comparison to the spike in true stories to come of it. 92-98% vs. 2-8%. I'm going to hear an accuser out.

It's hard to produce proof for assaults that took place years ago as well, but this doesn't mean the accuser is lying. How many consensual encounters can you prove happened a decade ago, for instance? While I understand burden of proof and why it's important, things like witnesses play a key role in this kind of accusation, because it's extraordinarily unlikely that there's any physical evidence left of it.

 

[Xzi]

The FBI doesn't investigate criminal accusations where it has no jurisdiction.

I'm quite aware the FBI doesn't reach conclusions, the Republicans repeated that like a mantra throughout the entire hearing. That isn't the point of requesting an investigation, the point is fact-finding so Senators can make informed decisions and ask informed questions.

In the context of Supreme Court nominations, the FBI performs background checks. The Ford allegation was appended to Kavanaugh's background check last week, then sent to the White House and Senate Judiciary committee, along with a statement from the FBI that there was no federal crime alleged, so they were done with it. The Senate Judiciary Committee is the fact finder in this proceeding.

Precisely, a background check is what we need. And no, the FBI is not "done with it," their involvement has to be requested from someone higher up before they get involved at all. A senate hearing is not an investigation, nor is it a trial. Even the Bar Association has stepped in and requested an FBI investigation in an unusual move for them. Republicans only want you to believe that a senate hearing is a substitute because they don't want to open up Kavanaugh to possible prosecution for all his obvious lies. Not to mention there are another four accusers lined up after Ford that Republicans don't even want to acknowledge.

Again, even if I didn't believe any of the accusers, Kavanaugh acted like a damn child throughout the entire hearing. He should be disqualified for the position based on his temperament alone.

 

[Kioku]

I'm not sure if people are being sarcastic or they don't notice the OP is against all this social executions without proof or facts.

Oh, the shortcomings of written communication.

That click bait title is working...

F'real, was wary when I read the title. Then I decided to read the post. I feel a bit better. Ha.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Studies have shown approx. 4% of accusations of sexual misconduct tend to be false (margin of error makes it more like 2-8%).

A lot of people try and dismiss 100% of accusations, leading to dividing families in cases of familial harassment, or putting the victim in a situation where they stand accused of lying even though they're statistically much less likely to be lying than telling the truth, as evidenced by recent studies. We should not lean either way, but we should hear out the accuser and at least give them a chance to come forward. Many victims are too traumatized to even do that much, or still scared of their assailant. The reason I think MeToo has been a somewhat decent movement is that it's given people a voice and motivation to come forward with something they may not have otherwise found the courage to. If it led to a spike in false allegations, it's still likely nominal in comparison to the spike in true stories to come of it. 92-98% vs. 2-8%. I'm going to hear an accuser out.

It's hard to produce proof for assaults that took place years ago as well, but this doesn't mean the accuser is lying. How many consensual encounters can you prove happened a decade ago, for instance? While I understand burden of proof and why it's important, things like witnesses play a key role in this kind of accusation, because it's extraordinarily unlikely that there's any physical evidence left of it.

Which is why there needs to be more support for outing the guilty sooner than later.

 

[gman666]

To make matters worse some of these accusations only come out after someone becomes a significant figure in the public eye. . . Or because of Partisan BS. I can't believe we've left behind "Inoccent until proven guilty" at the cost of our own selfish agendas. Makes me want to stay far away from all forms of Mass Media (Who benefit from sensationalized news stories) and Social Media (Which encourages Mob Mentality and Rewards that Mob with instant gratification "Upvotes"). It is tiring and infuriating to see that everbody done lost their damn minds.

 

[Carnelian]

Nobody is trustable in Shitmerica.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

Which is why there needs to be more support for outing the guilty sooner than later.

Absolutely agreed. This would be the ideal.

 

[Hanafuda]

Precisely, a background check is what we need. And no, the FBI is not "done with it," their involvement has to be requested from someone higher up before they get involved at all. A senate hearing is not an investigation, nor is it a trial. Even the Bar Association has stepped in and requested an FBI investigation in an unusual move for them. Republicans only want you to believe that a senate hearing is a substitute because they don't want to open up Kavanaugh to possible prosecution for all his obvious lies. Not to mention there are another four accusers lined up after Ford that Republicans don't even want to acknowledge.

A re-compile of his background check will be just that. Statements that have already been provided under penalty of felony will be taken again. There's no criminal investigation to be conducted because it's not a federal offense. This just makes for more delay, a window to throw more wrenches into the works, to then argue for even more delay. There's no way the Democrats will say 'ok then' after one week. The primary goal here is to prevent Kavanaugh being on the court for the October term of court, which is probably accomplished now, with the secondary goals being to ultimately force the nomination to be pulled, so they can start preparing their rapist/racist/nazi/pedo ambush on the next person nominated.

EDIT/UPDATE:

twitter.com/PressSec/status/1045779267827699712
Given the Flake-out today, and Murkowski et al climbing on, looks like Trump did the smart thing and ordered the FBI to conduct an investigation, to be closed within a week. Since the President's role is just to nominate and the process is currently in the hands of the Senate, I think he was right to cooperate with the request. Will Democrats cooperate and stick to their terms of a floor vote after the FBI's concludes its one-week investigation? We'll see, but I expect Gloria Allred to break on the scene on Monday with a woman who claims Brett Kavanaugh made her suck off a dog while he assfucked her with a frozen turkey leg and some Crisco, then made her snowball him.

Edit 2:
I'm already seeing people (presumably democrats) complaining in the comments to the Press Secretary's announcement that a one-week limit is not enough time to do a proper investigation and launching abuse at the President for doing that, even though one week is what the Senate Democrats asked for.

 

[Xzi]

Given the Flake-out today, and Murkowski et al climbing on, looks like Trump did the smart thing and ordered the FBI to conduct an investigation

Sure, waiting to request an investigation until after his name was dragged through the mud by his own actions and the court of public opinion is the smart thing.

 

[Viri]

We'll see, but I expect Gloria Allred to break on the scene on Monday with a woman who claims Brett Kavanaugh made her suck off a dog while he assfucked her with a frozen turkey leg and some Crisco, then made her snowball him.

Hey now, let's be realistic here, there won't be one women who claims that, there will at least be 5 of them! You sexist bigot! Also, I can't seem to recall, but I do think he raped me too, in the early 2000's.

http://kavanaughaccusationgenerator.com/

 

[Hanafuda]

Sure, waiting to request an investigation ...

As Lindsey Graham rather unexpectedly blurted out yesterday, if you really wanted an investigation it could've started in July.

 

[bitjacker]

<commencing rant> How much money does it cost TAXPAYERS to take every little dumb thing to court? I paid taxes. I do not agree with money i made being allocated for dumb shit. How is it fair that Brett gets gutted across all media platforms with subliminal suggestion that he is basically a rapist (making defense highly improbable)? Why does the fbi get jurisdiction (violation of due process of law) simply because of a wild hazy accusation had sex with the dnc and birthed a high profile case? I am kind of pissed that dumb shit plugs up the airwaves so I dont get real news.<rant concluded>