Gaming Bloodborne & Souls Series Discussions

aofelix

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These load times are VERY worrying for me. I die a shit loads in Dark Souls (PC) and I love the fact I'm instantly back at the bonfire with nearly zero loading.

Was their loading for dark souls deaths on consoles?
 

Tom Bombadildo

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These load times are VERY worrying for me. I die a shit loads in Dark Souls (PC) and I love the fact I'm instantly back at the bonfire with nearly zero loading.

Was their loading for dark souls deaths on consoles?

Yes, the load times for Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2 were just as bad as Bloodborne, though were fixed(ish) after a patch or two. The same will need to happen to Bloodborne as well.

On PC it's infinitely faster than consoles.
 

aofelix

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Thanks, damn I guess I'm a spoilt PC gamer then. Dark souls would infuriate me if I had to load back after a death.

When I get a PS4, I think I will be sticking an SSD in to remedy this blood borne loading situation.
 

Tom Bombadildo

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Thanks, damn I guess I'm a spoilt PC gamer then. Dark souls would infuriate me if I had to load back after a death.

When I get a PS4, I think I will be sticking an SSD in to remedy this blood borne loading situation.

That's not going to help, it's more a problem with how the game loads, not what it loads from. Disc-based and digital downloads have the same load times.
 

Nathan Drake

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Although I can see where you're coming from, and I'm certain my roommate benefited from me acting as a second set of eyes, all he really did was explore each area thoroughly. Otherwise from Central Yarnham, there's only really one path for progression towards the Cathedral District. From there, the path only really goes towards Old Yarnham. After that, the only new path available is behind the gate in the Cathedral District that you have to buy a key for. So on and so forth. I'd argue that the Forbidden Woods is he only area where things aren't all that clear with a bit of exploration, and that's only because the path through the various wooded paths is more varied than any of the other areas in the game leading up to it.

Though, if you're wondering what comes after where you're at:
After beating the Shadows of Yarnham, the only path forward leads to Byrgenwerth or whatever it's called. There, you'll find a fairly small area all in all that only really leads into a church like building. After beating a NPC hunter on the second floor, you can continue upward, finding a key that will eventually lead you out onto a balcony type area with an old man in a rocking chair thing. Talking to him just has him point to the edge of the balcony where there is a light shining below. Jump into that and you'll come face to face with Rom the Vacuous Spider, the boss you have to beat in order to progress further. If you faced him and weren't doing much, be sure to attack the main body. The head is heavily armored.

There is nowhere else to go unless you haven't gotten the rune tool yet. In that case, there is one more boss you could fight, but it's such a pushover and echoes aren't particularly plentiful leading to it.

But yeah, honestly, this game is super easy to figure out if you explore areas thoroughly enough. Not super easy to beat by any means, but otherwise from what I've seen, there is generally only one correct path through an area with either the exit being in the same direction, or with the exit being in another part of the area. The part you're at is really the only place I could see as being a bit confusing.
 

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On IGN they said an SSD shaves 5-10 seconds off the load times. Supposedly there is already a patch in the works to speed up the load times too.

So I haven't beaten the cleric beast yet, I wanted to see how far I could go the other way lol. I got to Father G with about 8K souls on me, had an epic battle needed one hit and lost my shit and he beat me! Not as hard as I was expecting though after what I'd read, you can abuse the scenery loads. I've had to take a break lol I was literally shaking when fighting him!
 

Elrinth

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I start out as the level 4 class and now i can purchase some "hunter" clothes... but I can't equip them!? Do I need to buy the complete set of hunter clothes before I can change gear or what!?
Does anyone know why!?
 

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I start out as the level 4 class and now i can purchase some "hunter" clothes... but I can't equip them!? Do I need to buy the complete set of hunter clothes before I can change gear or what!?
Does anyone know why!?

Your probably not high enough stat requirement. Also I found that set very early in, in the first area! It's
high up in the sewers
If you go to the equip screen it'll be in red if you are not high enough to equip it.
 

Tom Bombadildo

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Although I can see where you're coming from, and I'm certain my roommate benefited from me acting as a second set of eyes, all he really did was explore each area thoroughly. Otherwise from Central Yarnham, there's only really one path for progression towards the Cathedral District. From there, the path only really goes towards Old Yarnham. After that, the only new path available is behind the gate in the Cathedral District that you have to buy a key for. So on and so forth. I'd argue that the Forbidden Woods is he only area where things aren't all that clear with a bit of exploration, and that's only because the path through the various wooded paths is more varied than any of the other areas in the game leading up to it.

Except that's completely wrong, and without spoiling I'll just say you can go to about 3 places from the Cathedral area, you can go another 2 from Central Yarhnam, and the Forbidden Woods has just the 1 place you can proceed, the rest are just items and junk.

Though, if you're wondering what comes after where you're at:
After beating the Shadows of Yarnham, the only path forward leads to Byrgenwerth or whatever it's called. There, you'll find a fairly small area all in all that only really leads into a church like building. After beating a NPC hunter on the second floor, you can continue upward, finding a key that will eventually lead you out onto a balcony type area with an old man in a rocking chair thing. Talking to him just has him point to the edge of the balcony where there is a light shining below. Jump into that and you'll come face to face with Rom the Vacuous Spider, the boss you have to beat in order to progress further. If you faced him and weren't doing much, be sure to attack the main body. The head is heavily armored.

This is indeed true, and as I said I already cleared that area, however before I did I back tracked to a different area and I beat Amygdala instead of the spider first, cuz fuck that spider. There are multiple paths to go in Nightmare Frontier as well where Amygdala is, which I plan to explore today, bringing about more paths and probably more optional bosses. The game isn't linear in any sense, you can go do whatever the hell you want really, and there's nothing that tells you you're progressing in the right way (just that you're beating bosses, which isn't necessarily "progression" in the right direction since a lot of them are "optional" :lol:). The problem for me is I guess I just don't know if what I'm doing is actually progressing the story, sans maybe 1 or 2 parts, since Bloodborne has a lot more optional bosses than any of the Souls games, so I'm at a loss on where to go that's...progress. Lol.

I think the biggest problem is that, unlike Dark Souls 2 (and Dark Souls 1, I guess, though DS1 was a bit more "open"), you have 0 direction given to you on where to go other than "hey head to this place probably kbai", whereas I'm used to DS2 singleplayer that basically just throws you 4 different paths, 1 of which you sort of have to do first, and the rest just take you on your merry way with no variation in path on the way there. DS2 you were told "hey go beat these 4 old bosses in these 4 areas, than go to this area and beat these bosses!" whereas Bloodborne is mostly "well, here's Yarnham. Um...have fun." Which isn't bad, just different from what I'm used to in a Souls game :lol:


There is nowhere else to go unless you haven't gotten the rune tool yet. In that case, there is one more boss you could fight, but it's such a pushover and echoes aren't particularly plentiful leading to it.

See above, there absolutely is. Lol

But yeah, honestly, this game is super easy to figure out if you explore areas thoroughly enough. Not super easy to beat by any means, but otherwise from what I've seen, there is generally only one correct path through an area with either the exit being in the same direction, or with the exit being in another part of the area. The part you're at is really the only place I could see as being a bit confusing.

See bolded replies, I'm too lazy to separate each thing by quotes lol.
 

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See bolded replies, I'm too lazy to separate each thing by quotes lol.
I'm far too lacking in coherency at this point to adequately respond beyond saying that there is actually a marker for story progression, but it's literally only one thing that happens after about four or five bosses at a time lol.

Periodically, killing a boss will result in a cut scene, and the environment will actually change after this happens. These are basically the only marks of story progression. The first is after you kill the boss of the Cathedral Ward (the white haired woman beast thing). After viewing the cut scene at the altar, you probably noticed the moon changed some and if you went back to some previous areas, you may have noticed some differences in enemy layouts. The second is after you kill Rom the Vacuous Spider in Bygernwerth where
you are immediately transported to the Unseen Village, a different part of it than if you died to a Death Dealer earlier on, and at that point there really is only one way forward except if you choose to pursue the path that opens a gate back into Old Yarnham (but that boss isn't necessary to proceed).
By killing Rom, another change happens, triggering changes in the prior portion of the Unseen Village you may have explored most notably and otherwise various smaller changes in prior areas. These events may also make certain NPCs move, such as the friendly hunter I believe at Oeden Cathedral. As far as I can tell though, this is literally the only thing the game does to bother to tell you "oh hey, you're making some major process". I seem to recall something about the Blood Starved Beast too, but I think my roommate was just stuck for a moment after that until he bought the key to access the main portion of the Cathedral Ward.

You did mention the Nightmare, but I talked about that one earlier on. Maybe it's more expansive than I saw, but it didn't seem like there was anything other than Amygdala and two lanterns. The poison swamp kind of threw things off though, so there may very well have been more.

I suppose there are other ways you can probably go, but it seemed like from what I saw, you were kind of encouraged to follow certain paths based on enemy difficulty. For example, you may not have to progress to Old Yarnham following your first trounce through the first part of the Cathedral Ward, but by ending up there, it ends up feeling like the next place to go naturally. Of course, for the sake of story progression, I don't think there is actually any reason why you would have to visit Old Yarnham. Much like the boss that leads to the Rune Workshop Tool, you could completely bypass it 100% and still hit the main story bosses as you have to. At the same time, I haven't seen the actual end game yet, so who knows if some of these bosses (sans Nightmare) are really so optional?
 

Tom Bombadildo

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I suppose there are other ways you can probably go, but it seemed like from what I saw, you were kind of encouraged to follow certain paths based on enemy difficulty. For example, you may not have to progress to Old Yarnham following your first trounce through the first part of the Cathedral Ward, but by ending up there, it ends up feeling like the next place to go naturally. Of course, for the sake of story progression, I don't think there is actually any reason why you would have to visit Old Yarnham. Much like the boss that leads to the Rune Workshop Tool, you could completely bypass it 100% and still hit the main story bosses as you have to. At the same time, I haven't seen the actual end game yet, so who knows if some of these bosses (sans Nightmare) are really so optional?

If you ever played any of the Souls games seriously, you'd know that's sort of flawed logic :P Which is I think why your opinion differs greatly from mine, I have probably a combined 2000+ hours in all the Souls games and IIRC you said you never really played them :lol:
 

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If you ever played any of the Souls games seriously, you'd know that's sort of flawed logic :P Which is I think why your opinion differs greatly from mine, I have probably a combined 2000+ hours in all the Souls games and IIRC you said you never really played them :lol:
I don't like dying :( Though Bloodborne really does seem to encourage that idea of progression based on steadily rising enemy difficulty. I mean, you can never actually access an area that you are blatantly too weak for by leaps and bounds. Even with the Unseen Village, it is pretty hard if you get dragged there early, but it's leaps and bounds below in difficulty than when you actually have to go that way later on. Compare that to Dark Souls where after the prison, you're just sort of dropped in the middle of an area with multiple different paths that can be taken, with those branching even more if you took the Master Key as your gift, with the vast majority of them having enemies that you simply do not have the stats or gear to stand up against immediately following the prologue. Bloodborne doesn't do that, instead making it so it is pretty damn difficult to accidentally wander far beyond your current comfort zone. I mean, for example, from Central Yarnham, the two most prominent paths end up at either the Cathedral Ward or Old Yarnham. These places don't substantially differ in difficulty, though the enemies in Old Yarnham are arguably easier to fight against since their patterns come down to about two different attacks per enemy. You can't get into the Forbidden Woods immediately after Central Yarnham though, which is a place you would most certainly die many horrible unfightable deaths after the I guess what you could call Bloodborne's prologue sequence. Due to not being able to get to the Forbidden Woods, you can't reach Bygernwerth, which means you can't reach the Unseen Village in the fashion you need to in order to progress the story.

At the very least, compared to Demon's Souls and Dark Souls (I have zero experience with Dark Souls 2), Bloodborne is little bit nicer about not letting you accidentally wander right into oblivion compared to its predecessors.

Related, but thinking about it, it seems like these are the only necessary bosses in Bloodborne:
The Cleric Beast - Prologue
Father G. - Yarnham
White haired woman beast - Cathedral Ward
Shadows of Yarnham - Forbidden Woods
Rom the Vacuous Spider - Bygernwerth
Unseen Village Boss (not the lightning beast)

I'm fairly positive there should still be another boss after the last one listed that would probably be the end game beast simply based on the teleport tombstones in the Hunter's Dream. If you're beating all of those, then you should be on the right track to the end game. I suppose everything outside of them could just be considered extra blood echoes.
 

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Maybe this would be better:

CBIk-cEUkAAOca8.jpg:large
 

Tom Bombadildo

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I don't like dying :( Though Bloodborne really does seem to encourage that idea of progression based on steadily rising enemy difficulty.

And again, if you've ever actually played a Souls game seriously, you'd know that there aren't any real difficult enemies :P I don't think I've ever died to any mob in the game unless it was because I ran out of stamina or got swarmed by 10 of them at once. The enemies aren't difficult at all to me, because I have 2000 hours of practice on enemies that work in a similar fashion. Even some of the bosses, like the Shadows, are extremely easy bosses because they greatly resemble previous enemies or bosses (and the katana-wielding Shadows actually seem to be more like players than bosses, but meh) which is why it's difficult for me to discern whether or not where I'm going is "correct".

T-hug, I'm not complaining about the lack of information :P I like it a lot, I'm just saying that my experience is far from what ND's second hand experience is.
 

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And again, if you've ever actually played a Souls game seriously, you'd know that there aren't any real difficult enemies :P
The whole game is one big difficult enemy when you're inexperienced :P And to be fair, at least in Dark Souls, there really are enemies that will destroy your very core if you try to fight them too early. Like in the Undead Burg, at various places there will just be a single enemy standing in the middle of a path, clearly better equipped than the skeleton warriors all around, where a single hit is enough to blast away your entire stamina bar, leaving you defenseless for the one hit death followup. Granted, I know these enemies are what may be considered to be mini-bosses that won't respawn once they're killed, and hell, maybe it isn't too far beyond them that they actually become rather possible enemies even if you aren't master of the dodge. My point there is that Bloodborne doesn't do that. The very beginning of the game is the one place I can think of where they put an enemy you just couldn't kill with any level of ease, and even then, he's guarding absolutely nothing. Not a shortcut, no items, just a dead end that he decided was his home. After that, even if the enemies are a little difficult like an enemy hunter (which tend to have fairly simple attack patterns, largely being restricted to what you as the player can access as a hunter), I can't think of one place where they just shoved a random tank of an enemy and said "ha hope you don't approach this guy".

There is one more exception I guess and that's
when returning to the Unseen Village later, the portion you may have seen earlier in the game has been occupied by three hostile hunters that have a habit of all being triggered the moment one of them is. Granted, they are different speeds so you can at least lure one of them out to fight lonesome, but that's mostly difficulty by numbers than just enemy type.

Bloodborne and the Souls games ultimately are very different experiences on a fundamental level, and I'm having a hard time figuring out if all of your experience with the Souls games is a blessing or a curse in this particular scenario.
 

Tom Bombadildo

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The whole game is one big difficult enemy when you're inexperienced :P And to be fair, at least in Dark Souls, there really are enemies that will destroy your very core if you try to fight them too early. Like in the Undead Burg, at various places there will just be a single enemy standing in the middle of a path, clearly better equipped than the skeleton warriors all around, where a single hit is enough to blast away your entire stamina bar, leaving you defenseless for the one hit death followup. Granted, I know these enemies are what may be considered to be mini-bosses that won't respawn once they're killed, and hell, maybe it isn't too far beyond them that they actually become rather possible enemies even if you aren't master of the dodge. My point there is that Bloodborne doesn't do that. The very beginning of the game is the one place I can think of where they put an enemy you just couldn't kill with any level of ease, and even then, he's guarding absolutely nothing. Not a shortcut, no items, just a dead end that he decided was his home. After that, even if the enemies are a little difficult like an enemy hunter (which tend to have fairly simple attack patterns, largely being restricted to what you as the player can access as a hunter), I can't think of one place where they just shoved a random tank of an enemy and said "ha hope you don't approach this guy".

Again, if you ever played any of the Souls games seriously, you'd know there aren't any real difficult enemies ;)

Your first example, I assume you're referring to the Black Knight guarding the Blue Tearstone Ring. Even through my very first playthrough of Dark Souls, I never had any problems with him because...he's incredibly predictable, like all of the enemies in the Souls games unfortunately, and he's incredibly easy to parry and kill even when you have shit for weapons.

The same thing with Bloodborne, I know what enemy you're talking about, and he also faces the same exact problem as the Black Knight, he's incredibly predictable and easy to parry and kill (assuming you learn the timing in Bloodborne, it's a bit different from Dark Souls 2 and a bit more like Dark Souls 1, but you'd have to play the games a lot to know that so meh lol). Like I said, I have 2000 hours of practice in the Souls game, if I really wanted to I could probably go through Bloodborne without leveling up and without leveling weapons. I could probably do a naked run if I wanted to, if fists actually did damage :( And that's because none of the enemies are really "difficult".

The enemy hunters that are thrown around the areas are also incredibly simple for the most part for me, sans the one asshole with the mini-gun, but that's because out of those 2000 hours of Souls practice, a good 1500 hours are from PvP, and the NPC hunters in Bloodborne appear to have the same general pattern as most actual players in the Souls games, making them predictable and easy :P

Most of the difficulty in Bloodborne is classic From Software, which is why any newbie would obviously have problems with the game and find it difficult, but no-lifer Souls fans like me are used to the type of shit From throws in their games, we're used to stupid enemy strength, stupid enemy placements.

I'm not saying the game isn't difficult, it's just not difficult to me :P
 

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So I'm curious: has anyone here really experimented with insight? As we well know, insight measures your depth of inhuman knowledge, and more insight means you start noticing different things in the world. As well, insight can be used to buy PVP engaging items, but I'm not sure which purpose of insight is actually secondary. Basically, I'm curious as to what all insight does, what it changes, and how it changes it.

I don't know if it was just coincidence or not, but before, I saw my roommate hit 15 insight. At that point, the lamp wielding enemies around the entrance of the Cathedral District began to use those lanterns to perform a magical attack. After burning down his insight, they stopped using it. On a character he's using now, he's now up to 21, but they didn't use the magical attack, at least not on first interaction after increasing it. Now I'm not sure if that was a coincidence, or if insight combined with other aspects determines exactly what happens as insight continues to climb higher.
 

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I'm still very early in the game but would love to know about insight too after wasting one on a summon with no one showing up.
I preordered the guide today but it doesn't release until April 10th so whatever info is out there is all from the community.
 

Tom Bombadildo

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So I'm curious: has anyone here really experimented with insight? As we well know, insight measures your depth of inhuman knowledge, and more insight means you start noticing different things in the world. As well, insight can be used to buy PVP engaging items, but I'm not sure which purpose of insight is actually secondary. Basically, I'm curious as to what all insight does, what it changes, and how it changes it.

I don't know if it was just coincidence or not, but before, I saw my roommate hit 15 insight. At that point, the lamp wielding enemies around the entrance of the Cathedral District began to use those lanterns to perform a magical attack. After burning down his insight, they stopped using it. On a character he's using now, he's now up to 21, but they didn't use the magical attack, at least not on first interaction after increasing it. Now I'm not sure if that was a coincidence, or if insight combined with other aspects determines exactly what happens as insight continues to climb higher.

Insight does increase difficulty in the game, or at least changes some enemies' movesets and behavior. Insight also acts a bit like humanity/human effigies, in the sense that you have to use insight to summon, be summoned and invade. It doesn't seem to be a permanent change, as you can just go buy stuff or invade your insight away and it'll revert stuff back to normal. It sort of reminds me of a more understandable version of World Tendency from Demon's Souls, which is pretty neat.
 

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