Hacking Devolution Speculation thread

[Anon10W1z]

ANYWHO here's the off topic part in a nutshell.

Guy complains about reformatting to FAT32, I say he doesn't have to, we get into a huge argument about NTFS and FAT32...
*sigh* conversation done.

 

[toastyc12]

+1 on that. Besides the fat 32 4Gig file limit, I see absolutely no benefit in using ntfs. It's just M$ trying to push trough their own format. Don't they have their own music format as well? Everyone uses MP3, but not M$, oh no.
I am no M$ hater, Sony isn't much better. They have their own Memory stick types (which are more expensive)
En, when everyone started to produce a VHS VCR, Sony made a Betamax version. All Movie stores needed 2 copies of every movie.

But, it's off topic. The time wasted here to discuss NTFS can be used better to convert your drive to fat32.
If you choose for ntfs when you started with your harddisk, try to admit you made a mistake, repartition it and get over it.
It will give you the opportunity to remove the stuff you never use as well, and all files will be nicely defragmented.

(I'm only quoting you so people know where I'm drawing my conversation. Don't take this as me responding directly to you.)

Microsoft isn't the only one with proprietary formats. Just look at Apple. Sure, HFS+ might have some advantages to it, but those advantages are available to those only running Mac OS X. Forget about trying to open an HFS+ drive in other systems, especially embedded platforms like the wii.

Speaking of proprietary music formats, they have their own "Apple Lossless", or M4a.

Apple was just an example. There's a lot of competing formats out to rule as king, but in the end, advantages and features don't really matter much to the average end user. All that matters is that it works, works well, and is compatible with your stuff.

As formatting an external drive doesn't involve a complicated backup process, it shouldn't be much of a hassle for anyone needing to do it.

Back on topic: I'm pretty excited to see what comes out of this development. Props to tueidj for all his hard work!

 

[dmonkey21]

This discussion is pointless neither tueidj nor crediar will add NTFS support to their tools.

Which is their choice.

However, bear in mind that by not supporting NTFS, they are also alienating a sizable number of potential users who are presently using NTFS.

Well tbh if those people don't like the fact that NTFS wont be incorporated then they need to make change to accommodate that fact not the other way round, droning on about how many potential users he would lose is mute, he's the developer and he decides what is incorporated in his software. the fact is FAT32 has a user base of close to 75%, WBFS 20% and NTFS 5%.

Which would you incorporate bearing in mind this is for Wii and not any OS?

Lol I'd love to know how you came up with such bogus statistics...

Knowing the history of USBloaders and the restrictions on the file systems on the Wii for one would make it pretty obvious how these close to reality "statistics" were made.

*facepalm* If you claim to know the history of USB loaders you would also know that know that the first USB loaders supported only WBFS (a files system CREATED specifically for USB loading on the Wii) and over time certain loaders began to adopt NTFS and FAT32 drives. I know this is probably difficult for you to comprehend, but if you are simply making up numbers based on false information those numbers are not actually statistics, and should therefore not be shared as they are bogus. TBH I'm surprised they even added up to 100%

 

[Zero Aurion]

Remember how his thread used to be about Devolution... **sigh** Good times, good times =]

 

[wiismodrome]

One of the most interesting aspects of Devolution, IMO, is audio streaming support. Although a lot of Wii modchips have promised GC audio streaming, only a few actually do it properly. And the modchips that patch into the drive cable (Wiikey Fusion, Flatmiii, Wasabi DX, etc...), and even WODE, cannot play streamed audio... nor can Neogamma. Only the chips which patch the drive controller seem to work correctly.

 

[Sicklyboy]

This discussion is pointless neither tueidj nor crediar will add NTFS support to their tools.

Which is their choice.

However, bear in mind that by not supporting NTFS, they are also alienating a sizable number of potential users who are presently using NTFS.

Well tbh if those people don't like the fact that NTFS wont be incorporated then they need to make change to accommodate that fact not the other way round, droning on about how many potential users he would lose is mute, he's the developer and he decides what is incorporated in his software. the fact is FAT32 has a user base of close to 75%, WBFS 20% and NTFS 5%.

Which would you incorporate bearing in mind this is for Wii and not any OS?

Lol I'd love to know how you came up with such bogus statistics...

Knowing the history of USBloaders and the restrictions on the file systems on the Wii for one would make it pretty obvious how these close to reality "statistics" were made.

*facepalm* If you claim to know the history of USB loaders you would also know that know that the first USB loaders supported only WBFS (a files system CREATED specifically for USB loading on the Wii) and over time certain loaders began to adopt NTFS and FAT32 drives. I know this is probably difficult for you to comprehend, but if you are simply making up numbers based on false information those numbers are not actually statistics, and should therefore not be shared as they are bogus. TBH I'm surprised they even added up to 100%

How often is WBFS used anymore?
How often is FAT32 recommended?
How often is NTFS recommended?

Yes, pepxl may very well have pulled numbers out of his ass. Whether they're accurate or not is one thing, but what they represent is certainly true. WBFS is a completely dead format, replaced by FAT32, only recommended by old, shitty guides, old/shitty youtube guides, or people who have no idea what the hell they're talking about. NTFS is seldom recommended in lieu of FAT32 because, yes, despite the 4GB file size limitation (which, when scrubbed, most games seldom reach that amount, and those that do are quite easily split by your backup manager of choice), is highly more compatible with all current homebrew, whereas NTFS is not. His numbers may not be right, but his point certainly is.

Only time FAT32 becomes an issue is when storing entire ISOs (why though, when *.wbfs, a scrubbed and truncated format exists?) or movies (and there are certainly better movie players than the Wii out there (like... computers)

Great. I just contributed even more to this off-topic shitstorm... what have I done :\

 

[GameGeek]

How often is WBFS used anymore?
How often is FAT32 recommended?
How often is NTFS recommended?

Yes, pepxl may very well have pulled numbers out of his ass. Whether they're accurate or not is one thing, but what they represent is certainly true. WBFS is a completely dead format, replaced by FAT32, only recommended by old, shitty guides, old/shitty youtube guides, or people who have no idea what the hell they're talking about. NTFS is seldom recommended in lieu of FAT32 because, yes, despite the 4GB file size limitation (which, when scrubbed, most games seldom reach that amount, and those that do are quite easily split by your backup manager of choice), is highly more compatible with all current homebrew, whereas NTFS is not. His numbers may not be right, but his point certainly is.

Poster 1: I think most Wii homebrew apps should have NTFS support.
Poster 2: No they shouldn't, FAT32 is better.
Poster 1: How is it better?
Poster 2: Because it's the file system supported by most Wii apps.

Gotta love the cyclic logic there.

 

[Sicklyboy]

How often is WBFS used anymore?
How often is FAT32 recommended?
How often is NTFS recommended?

Yes, pepxl may very well have pulled numbers out of his ass. Whether they're accurate or not is one thing, but what they represent is certainly true. WBFS is a completely dead format, replaced by FAT32, only recommended by old, shitty guides, old/shitty youtube guides, or people who have no idea what the hell they're talking about. NTFS is seldom recommended in lieu of FAT32 because, yes, despite the 4GB file size limitation (which, when scrubbed, most games seldom reach that amount, and those that do are quite easily split by your backup manager of choice), is highly more compatible with all current homebrew, whereas NTFS is not. His numbers may not be right, but his point certainly is.

Poster 1: I think most Wii homebrew apps should have NTFS support.
Poster 2: No they shouldn't, FAT32 is better.
Poster 1: How is it better?
Poster 2: Because it's the file system supported by most Wii apps.

Gotta love the cyclic logic there.

-I don't know whether I should use FAT32 for my Wii.
--FAT32 has a 4GB file limitation though, whereas NTFS does not!
-Yeah, but scrubbed and truncated wbfs files kinda work around that, don't they? And isn't the compatibility with current Wii homebrew low?
--Yeah, but some day it could be much more widely used!
-You're right, let's forego having high compatibility by using something that might be more widely used in the future.

Gotta love the logic that isn't fucking there.

Edit - I should start only buying USB 3.0 products, right? Because some day USB 3.0 will be the standard, right? I mean, god, USB 2.0 is just so terrible, even though everything uses it right now, right?

Edit 2 - *3 years ago* "I should start buying only HD DVD movies, right? Because some day HD DVD will be the standard, right? I mean, god, DVD is just so terrible, even though every movie is released on it right now, right?"

Oh, hi, Bluray.

 

[Zero Aurion]

Only time FAT32 becomes an issue is when storing entire ISOs (why though, when *.wbfs, a scrubbed and truncated format exists?)

.. I hate to start another off-topic convo... but you ask why would one want a full iso rather than a scrubbed game? I for one don't really care for scrubbed games. I'd rather have the full iso so i can have the full game. Yea, i know scrubbed games are only supposed to take out the unneeded stuff that doesn't affect games... but I've been screwed over too many times to trust scrubbed games... Seems I keep getting scrubbed isos that have stuff taken out that does in fact affect the game :/

 

[Sicklyboy]

Only time FAT32 becomes an issue is when storing entire ISOs (why though, when *.wbfs, a scrubbed and truncated format exists?)

.. I hate to start another off-topic convo... but you ask why would one want a full iso rather than a scrubbed game? I for one don't really care for scrubbed games. I'd rather have the full iso so i can have the full game. Yea, i know scrubbed games are only supposed to take out the unneeded stuff that doesn't affect games... but I've been screwed over too many times to trust scrubbed games... Seems I keep getting scrubbed isos that have stuff taken out that does in fact affect the game :/

No. Then you're getting rips, such as the DVD5 of Brawl instead of the DVD9, which has data removed to fit it on a single layer DVD. Scrubbed ISOs have the garbage data removed. Emphasis on garbage. Stuff that isn't wanted, used, needed. I've had bad downloads, but never once a bad scrub. Download WiiScrubber and scrub your ISOs yourself then, save yourself the space o.o

Only downside I can even see from using a scrubbed/truncated wbfs file is reconverting it to an ISO to use in the diskex converter or Dolphin. But I think there are apps that will reconvert wbfs, wbf1 files to ISO.

/back-on off-topic.

Edit - I'm done contributing to the off-topicness of this thread. Anyone who wants to discuss this stuff further, start a new topic and tag me in it. I'll talk there. This isn't the place for this stuff.

 

[pepxl]

*facepalm* If you claim to know the history of USB loaders you would also know that know that the first USB loaders supported only WBFS (a files system CREATED specifically for USB loading on the Wii) and over time certain loaders began to adopt NTFS and FAT32 drives. I know this is probably difficult for you to comprehend, but if you are simply making up numbers based on false information those numbers are not actually statistics, and should therefore not be shared as they are bogus. TBH I'm surprised they even added up to 100%

Yep, definitely give yourself a facepalm there.

The first USBLoader was coded and created by kwiirk & Waninkoko which ONLY supported WBFS which was also created by the same coders, more devs jumped on board with their modified versions thus more loaders were born sporting more features but were still confined to WBFS. Now several years pass and Oggzee & Co. cracked the WBFS file header and implemented it into a container format thus .wbfs was born and FAT32 storage became the more standard over WBFS due to the higher lib compatibility and stability it had over the previous FS. More loaders included FAT32 support as an option due to this fact and it became the better option to use as it was support not only by Wii but other OS's, which then made your HDD open for use all round and not just for the Wii.

Now not long after FAT32, a NTFS port was experimented with and released as an alternative option which is maintained dimok and others but lacked write support until further down the line it was introduced, yet loaders gave the write option at the users discretion as full support and compatibility was not 100% at the time and still isnt today but has came along way since release.

Now that is just a simple break down and many other things are not included but you should get the idea. Im no history buff but i DO know my stuff instead of the many noobs who don't really have a clue. If any info is wrong let me know and i'll correct it but im sure its pretty close.

Enough of the shiz and lets get this thread back on topic..................

 

[pwsincd]

Another Devolution thread totally derailled :s keepin seein new posts thinkin there may be development .. nope yet more DFS descussion... ZzZzZzZz

 

[Maxternal]

At least MOST of the off topic posts got moved over to the

NTFS vs FAT32 vs WBFS thread

It's a good thing [member='DeadlyFoez'] was smart enough to start it.
It's up to 4 pages now and there's only been about 1 page off topic left behind here.
Most of the posters on that thread were the same ones posting here so go take the comments where they belong (I mean that in a nice friendly way) the same people will read your comments still but they will be in the right place.

 

[Maxternal]

It's interesting, though, how the thread quiets down so much when all the off topic conversation is moved to where it goes.

Anyway, I was kinda wondering if the final version of Devolution will have a GUI complete with bottons and icons and stuff that you go through with the wiimote pointer or if it will still just be text you go through with the d-pad, or maybe some middle ground like NeoGamma is.

Also I wonder since it's closed source, how long it will keep being added to once it's released.

 

[tueidj]

There will be no GUI.

 

[EnigmaXtreme]

I still use WBFS as I have no need for my hard drive to be FAT32, I tried Sneek and didnt really feel I needed it, not only that it gave me problems with the HBC

 

[LWares87]

Do you actually realise how completely irrelevant that is? :/ can you kindly ask that somewhere else, like possibly a new thread?

In extension to that... WBFS (Wii Backup File System) is for Wii Games only, not for NGC (Gamecube) Games.

Also... Devolution will only support FAT32 partitions.

Edit: With regards to HBC and Sneek... Only HBC 1.0.7 is only supported with Sneek and you'll need to extract the ticket from your wii console (install HBC 1.0.7 on your wii console, create a nand backup with bootmii, extract the ticket using nandextract and then copy it to your EmuNAND).

 

[XFlak]

Edit: With regards to HBC and Sneek... Only HBC 1.0.7 or lower is only supported with Sneek and you'll need to extract the ticket from your wii console (install HBC 1.0.7 on your wii console, create a nand backup with bootmii, extract the ticket using nandextract and then copy it to your EmuNAND).

fixed it for you

and btw, IIRC HBC on an emunand will only work on the wii the HBC ticket was originally extracted from

 

[Zero Aurion]

Self Deleted... Why? The post was f*ckin stupid as hell

 

[wiismodrome]

I speculate that Devolution will make Zelda a playable character in Twilight Princess....