Digital Distribution: Imagined Fears

[Haloman800]

Excellent write up. I prefer having a digital collection to a physical collection of anything. It's easier to take my laptop with me then my entire collection of 50+ games.

I'm in the process of scanning (nearly) every important document I own, uploading it to a secure online storage "cloud" like Dropbox, then destroying the physical copy. Saves space, and I have access to it anywhere I have internet, which nowadays is virtually everywhere (Unless you have service with AT&T).

 

[Rydian]

i'm attempting to make the point that i can buy a used atari right now and my games will work. i can also buy more games cartridges. but if a system goes completely digital i may not have that same opportunity 30 yrs later.

Again that's an issue with DRM, not digital content. For example the Humble Bundle games are offered as standalone downloads with no DRM, in 30 years you can run the installer again to get the game set up.

Yet many retail on-disc games rely on connections to the servers (I linked to a few), and those game have an uncertain future, even though they're "physical".

 

[Deleted member 194275]

The main reason that I prefer digital copies is that not all Physical Copies arrive to Brazil. Thats one of the reasons that made piracy reach 99,99% of Brazilian gamers.

The other reason is that here there is almost no market for used games. I cant find what I want, and I cant sell easily what I have.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Excellent write up. I prefer having a digital collection to a physical collection of anything. It's easier to take my laptop with me then my entire collection of 50+ games.

I'm in the process of scanning (nearly) every important document I own, uploading it to a secure online storage "cloud" like Dropbox, then destroying the physical copy. Saves space, and I have access to it anywhere I have internet, which nowadays is virtually everywhere (Unless you have service with AT&T).

Err...I wouldn't go that far. You should always have a physical backup of any important document. That's just common sense.

@[member='Rydian']
The point Another World is trying to make is that if a console goes all digital, like perhaps the PS4, chances are 30 years after the console is released there would be no way to buy more games for said console, used or otherwise. Someone else (it might have been AW as well, I dunno) said that there are chances that newer consoles like the PS4 might have such advanced encryption methods that we aren't able to hack it and make backups of these digital games. How are we supposed to buy new content if Sony doesn't offer them on their servers anymore? We can't just pirate them, the console is too secure. Sure, you can throw out the "No security is perfect" stuff, but what if it's just too hard and people loose interest? Then you're screwed.

 

[Rydian]

Again that's an issue with DRM, the inability to back up and transfer your own damn copies. Whereas things that lack DRM don't have that issue. I can back up freeware apps on my tablet and transfer them to other tablets just fine, but ones that include license check DRM throw a wrench into the ability.

Digital != DRM.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

Eh, I just like having the game boxes on my shelf.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Again that's an issue with DRM, the inability to back up and transfer your own damn copies. Whereas things that lack DRM don't have that issue. I can back up freeware apps on my tablet and transfer them to other tablets just fine, but ones that include license check DRM throw a wrench into the ability.

Digital != DRM.

Right, and that's for a tablet. But right now we're talking about consoles. Yes, we know Digital != DRM, but I don't see DRM disappearing on a digital only console...ever without some kind of hack.

And yeah, this is a rather big "what-if" scenario and all but the point I think AW is trying to make is that it could happen.

EDIT: Also, this isn't necessarily all Digital Distribution's fault. DRM is a part of it and the companies decision to make a digital-only console is as well. But all 3 together = potential bad.

 

[Minox]

Considering how many CDs & DVDs I've had gone bad on me I'd pick digital distribution over a physical disc any day. The worst case would be Heroes of Might & Magic 3. To this date I've had to buy four copies due to discs no longer functioning with no obvious physical damage being present. The last copy I bought was a digital one from GoG though so I shouldn't have to encounter that issue anymore.

 

[Another World]

Eh, I just like having the game boxes on my shelf.

you actually bring up a good point. most collectors want tangible goods. its hard to feel like you have collected anything when there is only a digital copy sitting on your console's hdd.

-another world

 

[ouch123]

Eh, I just like having the game boxes on my shelf.

you actually bring up a good point. most collectors want tangible goods. its hard to feel like you have collected anything when there is only a digital copy sitting on your console's hdd.

-another world

This is my reason for preferring physical copies. It's very satisfying to hold an old game disc or cartridge that you have fond memories of, and you don't get that satisfaction with a digital download.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

This is my reason for preferring physical copies. It's very satisfying to hold an old game disc or cartridge that you have fond memories of, and you don't get that satisfaction with a digital download.

I just hold my router close to my heart and whisper sweet nothings to it.

 

[tbgtbg]

Considering how many CDs & DVDs I've had gone bad on me I'd pick digital distribution over a physical disc any day.

Maybe you should just learn to properly take care of discs. Number of discs I've had go bad on me (assuming the disc wasn't defective brand new out of the box)? Zero, and I've been playing disc based games since the TurboCD.

Meanwhile, I did get some digital download songs at one point (wouldn't have done it but I got some free download codes of some sort so I figured I'd try it). Later on the company just out of the blue decides "oh hey, yeah, we're not supporting those anymore, burn 'em to a CDR or something because we ain't letting you download them anymore, sucka." So while not likely, it's certainly possible the same could happen with DD gaming services.

 

[Issac]

Then I fail to see the relevance of that comment all in all. If steam goes down, we can't play our games. But that's where the offline-mode comes into play! We can still use it! BUT NOT if you need to redownload a game. And to that, you reply that if you lose your cartridge you don't get a new one? Or did I miss something?

Yes, that's my point. People often cry out that if your harddrive/stick dies you lose the game, but if your cartridge breaks you also lose the game, so it's not like digital has some huge weakness that physical doesn't there.
FYI. Harddrives and usb sticks are more prone to breaking than cartridges.

Yes, those people might be stupid. But my guess is that someone who wipe-and-restores their computer when the IE start page is changed, doesn't own 200 games on steam.

Why does it have to be 200? It can just be a single game for them to have the advantage of redownloading it.
Yes, but the point was, if you have 200 games on a harddrive which breaks, you lose 200 games. If you have 200 cartridges and ALL of them break? You've got some bad luck. One hardware failure and ALL games are gone VS One hardware failure and ONE game is gone. And again, the scenario was "When the digital distribution service is no more", meaning you can not re-download those games.

and once again, if you think it's the same loosing a physical cartridge (with box?) as a system crash losing 200 digital games on steam (And in this scenario still, steam being offline), that it's the same?

A "system crash" is recoverable unless it's hardware failure.
Yes, excuse my poor English skills. I did mean a harddrive that physically breaks due to the moving parts in old HDD's, or some other failure of the SSD's becoming more popular. I meant system crash as the physical system crashes (as in breaking).

I still think someone losing a physical item is more to "blame" than someone suffering from faulty hardware (hard drive crash, has happened to me several times)

RROD and YLOD say hi.
Same shit. Your hardware dies you need to take extra steps to re-get your games, if it's possible at all.
Yes? RROD and YLOD is a way of hardware dying? and I said that you're more to blame if you lose a cartridge, than if your system breaks down (since you don't control your hardware the same way)? If possible at all, you can redownload your games, and the physical games would work on any new system... like I was trying to say?

Bolded some replies in the quote above.

 

[ouch123]

This is my reason for preferring physical copies. It's very satisfying to hold an old game disc or cartridge that you have fond memories of, and you don't get that satisfaction with a digital download.

I just hold my router close to my heart and whisper sweet nothings to it.

*Throws router into volcano*
It was evil.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

Considering how many CDs & DVDs I've had gone bad on me I'd pick digital distribution over a physical disc any day.

Maybe you should just learn to properly take care of discs. Number of discs I've had go bad on me (assuming the disc wasn't defective brand new out of the box)? Zero, and I've been playing disc based games since the TurboCD.

Meanwhile, I did get some digital download songs at one point (wouldn't have done it but I got some free download codes of some sort so I figured I'd try it). Later on the company just out of the blue decides "oh hey, yeah, we're not supporting those anymore, burn 'em to a CDR or something because we ain't letting you download them anymore, sucka." So while not likely, it's certainly possible the same could happen with DD gaming services.

Bitrot (also known as disc rot) is a very real and very common thing for disc based games. Especially if you live in fairly humid climates. Many people don't realize they have a damaged disc until they check, and check thoroughly.

http://www.rfgeneration.com/news/disc-rot/An-important-note-to-Video-Game-Sellers-and-Buyers-1337.php

 

[Minox]

Considering how many CDs & DVDs I've had gone bad on me I'd pick digital distribution over a physical disc any day.

Maybe you should just learn to properly take care of discs. Number of discs I've had go bad on me (assuming the disc wasn't defective brand new out of the box)? Zero, and I've been playing disc based games since the TurboCD.

I know my post may make it sound like I don't handle my games with the care they require, but with it being one of my favorite games ever I've always tried to treat it with uttermost care to prevent it from being damaged. That did not stop it from all of a sudden not being read in any of my CD/DVD units though. All my other disc-based games work, and I've never had a problem with them giving up, but HoMM3 for some reason kept being plagued by this issue for me and has given me a pretty dim view on optical media.

 

[Issac]

good thing that the error tolerance (error detection) is quite high on discs, as a small hole can be overlooked. Go to 5:55 (i wanted it to show at that time but the embedded doesn't want to)
However it IS a problem! Not denying that!

 

[euanadixon]

Maybe my ass is just getting old but I much preffer owning a physical copy of a game, I mean sure I can see the benefits of DD, I'd be lost without steam. But ridding physical copies all together? :/ I can't say I'd be on board

 

[Rydian]

Right, and that's for a tablet. But right now we're talking about consoles.

Who says the conversation's limited? Digital distribution was happening on computers well before the PS3/360/Wii came along, and why is it being on a tablet not applicable? Digital distribution is THE main avenue for iOS and Android, and these are some of the most often-used systems today.

And yeah, this is a rather big "what-if" scenario and all but the point I think AW is trying to make is that it could happen.

Wiiware, PSN titles, and 360 arcade games are most often digital-only... and the issue with not being able to copy and back them up is due to DRM. Remove the DRM, and suddenly digital-only titles can be freely backed up and moved around.

If the problem was digital distribution, then the issue would still happen as long as digital distribution was in the picture. However in the current situations you can leave digital distribution in the picture and the problem goes away due to the removal of DRM.

Simple Fucking Logic™ dictates that the problem is DRM, not digital distribution.

Maybe you should just learn to properly take care of discs. Number of discs I've had go bad on me (assuming the disc wasn't defective brand new out of the box)? Zero, and I've been playing disc based games since the TurboCD.

@[member='Minox_IX']
Some types of DRM on discs can cause them to fail earlier, especially ones that count on "faded tracks" or however it's referred to, where they're printed in a way that multiple reads are needed before certain data can be read off the disc, so a one-pass done for a copy won't get all the data. These sections are much more likely to fail totally before others since they're faded (shallow pits) to begin with. I tried looking up what DRM HoM&M3 uses, but given the relatively-early release date it's likely it was something custom, not adoption of a third-party technology (like securom and shit).

FYI. Harddrives and usb sticks are more prone to breaking than cartridges.

Depends on how shitty the design/manufacturing is. People's NES systems could stop reading carts as early as a few months into the life of the system, whereas I have a 40GB harddrive from my 98SE computer that still works.

I see people buying piece of shit dell laptops from walmart for $400 that break within a few months (I can't tell you how many laptops I work on that have missing keys or cracked hinges), while I know a guy that's been using a unibody macbook pro since they came out (almost four years ago), for work, daily, and he hasn't had a single hardware issue with it. Four years doesn't sound like much, but you might be surprised how many cheap laptops develop physical issues in less than 6 months.

And to compare game systems, the RROD and YLOD in early 360/PS3 models caused many people to be without a functional system, while other people still use their GBA in functional condition to this day.

Failures are often seen in computers because people buy pieces of shit. People are incredibly prone to buy the cheapest, shittiest parts they can. You don't see this with game systems because it's not like you have your choice of 5 brand 3DS's where some are built well and others are shit for $50 less... with game systems there's a static baseline of quality to expect with each product. Not so with computers. Computers give people an opportunity to throw their money away on shit, and it shows.

Think about how we act when people ask about flash carts and memory cards. If we see somebody here wanting to buy an R4iHyper King Mega cart that hasn't been updates in 2008 simply because it's $4 less than a good cart, do we let them? No, we tell them it's a bad idea and try to stop them from making a shitty purchase decision based on price alone. Same thing with MicroSD cards. If we see somebody about to buy a "32GB" unbranded MicroSD from eBay for $5, do we let them? Hell no! We tell them they're about to buy a piece of shit, and we educate them on what's what and point them at a decent product that will actually serve them well and not fail with normal use.

Now take those same people that are prone to buy shit because it's cheaper, and point them at the computer world with little to no educated guidance, and you'll understand why so many computers and parts break so easily.

"OMG what do computers have to do with game systems" - Last I checked game systems used RAM and processors and flash storage and harddrives, too. If something's changed and they now run on pixie dust and cat farts, somebody please alert me.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Considering how many CDs & DVDs I've had gone bad on me I'd pick digital distribution over a physical disc any day.

I'm pretty sure that Blu-ray (used by PS3 and soon Wii U) has an added protective layer to prevent disc scratching. It shouldn't be as prevalent a problem anymore.