Geohot has set a Legal Defense Fund

[retKHAAAN]

you do have the right to install CFW on your console and should feel entitled to it. you paid at least 300 damn dollars for the thing. you paid sales tax to the state you live in (if you're in the US, don't know how that works for you). I don't even own a modded system of any kind and I won't ever again. however, if i've worked my ass off to earn the money to buy myself something, i expect to be able to use it as i please.

pre-emptive retort...
"you pay for a gun, does that give you the right to shoot people"
No. It doesn't.
No one is shooting Sony by playing super mario world on their PS3. I do understand that people are taking money out of their pockets though via piracy. if this case were an act against piracy I'd have no problem standing behind Sony on it. However, their case reaches much further than just piracy...

If you can't grasp that then enjoy having your next PC limit you to software "approved" by MS/Apple.

 

[Wintrale]

That's not really possible... the hardware of the iplayer isn't open to anybody, people can't just go make new stuff on a whim. In comparison the custom firmwares and tools and such are open source, and there's tons of documentation out there on them. It's easy for a hacker to find out just what and where to poke to disable any protections.

And this should stop him from at least trying? Surely if he's so adamantly against piracy, he'd at least try to prevent people using his tools to promote it?

QUOTEHow could geohot do anything in that case? It's between Sony and other people. It's like you asking me what I can do to stop your sister from dating some guy. I'm not involved in that situation at all. Yes geohot could release mods that didn't allow game backups, but then people would just make and use ones that did, and geohot has no way to force other people to use his (and while he can disable the backup playing on the other tools, people could just use the versions he didn't modify). He's not having any sort of control in that situation.

Firstly, your analogy is terrible. A better example would be... You had introduced my sister to some abuser and turned your back on them, full well knowing that he'd do horrible things to my sister. In that case, yes, I'd expect you to stop my sister dating that guy. In fact, I'd do as Sony did, and go after you and the guy you introduced my sister to. By the time I'd be finished, both of you would be in hospital with your balls ripped off and shoved down your throat.

But in the end, is it okay to plead ignorance as you are? He makes tools for people to hack the PS3, proclaims he's very much against piracy, then spreads it around on the internet? Even if he himself isn't responsible for piracy on the PS3, he aided and abetted those that are. He's an accessory to the crime, all because he did absolutely nothing to stop people using his tools for piracy. At least if he had tried to stop them, however futile you think it is, we could say he gave it a go.

That guy is to blame for all of Sony's problems right now, even if he hasn't directly done most of it himself. Whether you like it or not, Sony owns every PS3 out there and we only pay for a license to use them. It's been like that for decades, so all Geohot did was give everyone on the internet keys to Sony's "house".

 

[Rydian]

A better example would be... You had introduced my sister to some abuserNo, YOUR example was between Sony and other people. You said if Sony allowed people to.

Sony allowing people to.

Geohot is not involved, as geohot is not part of sony.

But in the end, is it okay to plead ignorance as you are? He makes tools for people to hack the PS3, proclaims he's very much against piracy, then spreads it around on the internet?Do you feel the same way towards the hackers of the Wii? Because some of them getting sued, too. Please read the case.

QUOTE(Wintrale @ Feb 20 2011, 09:43 AM)

Even if he himself isn't responsible for piracy on the PS3, he aided and abetted those that are. He's an accessory to the crime, all because he did absolutely nothing to stop people using his tools for piracy. At least if he had tried to stop them, however futile you think it is, we could say he gave it a go.

Again you're not reading! I just explained that he can't. He is not a controlling entity here. The tools released are NOT just his. Team fail0verflow in fact released a majority of the tools, and they are also under the suit (which you haven't read).

 

[retKHAAAN]

That guy is to blame for all of Sony's problems right now, even if he hasn't directly done most of it himself. Whether you like it or not, Sony owns every PS3 out there and we only pay for a license to use them. It's been like that for decades, so all Geohot did was give everyone on the internet keys to Sony's "house".

we do not pay for a license to use them...we pay for and own the hardware.

they have every right to ban people from their networks for breaking the user agreement required to access said networks. they do not have a right to control how you use the hardware they sold you. if that were the case then where does it stop? does the grocery store own every apple you purchase from them and only sell you a license to eat it?

 

[Eckin]

Probably repeating some other people (not in the mood to read the whole thread):

GeoHot is a stupid attention whore. He loves the spotlight, and that was his biggest mistake. Everyone knows Sony is trigger-happy about lawsuits, but he didn't gave a crap about it and that's what he got.

But

what Sony is doing is retarded and they should never win this case. It's just to cause fear, and would mean that your console isn't actually yours, it's forever theirs. It's absurd.

I really hope he wins, even if it goes like Bleem!'s case. It'll be a great victory for the homebrew community, he knows it, and everyone here should know it too.

 

[KingVamp]

That guy is to blame for all of Sony's problems right now, even if he hasn't directly done most of it himself. Whether you like it or not, Sony owns every PS3 out there and we only pay for a license to use them. It's been like that for decades, so all Geohot did was give everyone on the internet keys to Sony's "house".

we do not pay for a license to use them...we pay for and own the hardware.

they have every right to ban people from their networks for breaking the user agreement required to access said networks. they do not have a right to control how you use the hardware they sold you. if that were the case then where does it stop? does the grocery store own every apple you purchase from them and only sell you a license to eat it?

Walk out store eating apple. "um sir, you are eating that wrong, if you continue to eat it that way I would have to sue you"

 

[Rydian]

everyone here should know it too.

Yeah, but the thread's full of people that don't want to look at the big picture.

 

[KingVamp]

everyone here should know it too.

Yeah, but the thread's full of people that don't want to look at the big picture.

Maybe when it get to the point Sony suing because you painted you console red, they get the point. :/

 

[Maedhros]

I said good luck to him.

If Sony wins, how it'll affects a guy who just uses original games on the PS3? Even if this mean the end of CFW and Jailbreaks, if you go only with originals and no homebrew... how this will affect you?

 

[retKHAAAN]

everyone here should know it too.

Yeah, but the thread's full of people that don't want to look at the big picture.

geo is a fairly polarizing figure. seems some people can't see past that to the bigger picture. it's not even about him. it's about the consumer in general and where the line is drawn as far as what is your property and what isn't.

 

[basf11214]

I said good luck to him.

If Sony wins, how it'll affects a guy who just uses original games on the PS3? Even if this mean the end of CFW and Jailbreaks, if you go only with originals and no homebrew... how this will affect you?

If Sony wins, it will set a dangerous precedent. From there, it's only a matter of time before the rights established under the first-sale doctrine is eroded further. As a law school student, I'm troubled by the lack of foresight and a general pettiness on display here.

Edit: For the record, I don't own a PS3.

 

[Rydian]

As a law school student, I'm troubled by the lack of foresight and a general pettiness on display here.

And the major companies are just fine with people making judgments based on attitude and not what actually matters.

I mean it's the entire facade in politics. XD

 

[Maedhros]

I said good luck to him.

If Sony wins, how it'll affects a guy who just uses original games on the PS3? Even if this mean the end of CFW and Jailbreaks, if you go only with originals and no homebrew... how this will affect you?

If Sony wins, it will set a dangerous precedent. From there, it's only a matter of time before the rights established under the first-sale doctrine is eroded further. As a law school student, I'm troubled by the lack of foresight and a general pettiness on display here.

Edit: For the record, I don't own a PS3.

The only precedent I see in this case is about the release of the private keys. On the past, it happened with NES, if I'm not mistaken. Had him made a CFW without releasing the keys and I would not be bothered.
Like it was with PSP/DS/etc.

 

[ProtoKun7]

Personally, I'm in favour of Geohot, mostly because of both the precedent that could be set, and to a degree, some of Sony's questionable tactics (I'm not saying by that that all of them have been, however) and the stifling of homebrew on the system. Geohot's CFW didn't allow backups but allowed homebrew, and Sony still want none of it.

I really do not care if it is hacked or not.
As long as their are no people hacking trophies and online games.
So the thing that will make everyone happy is if you cannot hack online but you can hack online.
You mean offline?

hmmm i want to win the lottery and donate 5 million euro's
(yeah i am desperate)

I hope you do, because a transaction that large would look suspicious and set off some red flags.

He didn't say it would be donated over the internet.

QUOTE(Urza @ Feb 20 2011, 12:29 AM) I hope they take everything he has.

So if I get egotistical you're going to wish me into poverty?
Do me a favor and go live on the streets for a few weeks and then see if you're willing to post that again.

I'm fairly certain Urza has already "been there, done that".

Rydian: I agree.
Law: Then he should have no trouble going through that again before wishing it upon someone else.

QUOTE(Rydian @ Feb 20 2011, 01:45 PM)

You can only post 5 quotes per post, or the system doesn't let you. If posts are automerged then more can be in a single post, and it seems I can ignore the quote limit when editing my post in the news forums (thanks to somebody in the shoutbox for pointing it out).

You're welcome.

 

[Wintrale]

If Sony wins, it will set a dangerous precedent. From there, it's only a matter of time before the rights established under the first-sale doctrine is eroded further. As a law school student, I'm troubled by the lack of foresight and a general pettiness on display here.

It's perfectly fine. Get someone like Rydian to defend Geohot, a devout believer that'll defend the guy on forums with more zest than Phoenix Wright could ever muster, that'll do the job. The guy's apparently done nothing wrong, after all, so what's he got to fear?

 

[Magmorph]

The only precedent I see in this case is about the release of the private keys. On the past, it happened with NES, if I'm not mistaken. Had him made a CFW without releasing the keys and I would not be bothered.
Like it was with PSP/DS/etc.

No one ever found the keys to the PSP or the DS so there was nothing to be released.

 

[retKHAAAN]

If Sony wins, it will set a dangerous precedent. From there, it's only a matter of time before the rights established under the first-sale doctrine is eroded further. As a law school student, I'm troubled by the lack of foresight and a general pettiness on display here.

It's perfectly fine. Get someone like Rydian to defend Geohot, a devout believer that'll defend the guy on forums with more zest than Phoenix Wright could ever muster, that'll do the job. The guy's apparently done nothing wrong, after all, so what's he got to fear?

again...
it's not about defending Geohot...
it's about defending your rights as a consumer to make use of your property in a way you see fit...
Rydian is not defending Geohot. He has not once come to Geohot's defense claiming his innocence. He is pointing out that Geohot is the focus of Sony's wrath more as an example than as an indictment of his actions. Anyone who is a "devout believer" in Geohot is a douchebag.

IT IS NOT ABOUT GEOHOT

 

[Phoenix Goddess]

It's perfectly fine. Get someone like Rydian to defend Geohot, a devout believer that'll defend the guy on forums with more zest than Phoenix Wright could ever muster, that'll do the job. The guy's apparently done nothing wrong, after all, so what's he got to fear?

Give it a rest already.

 

[Rydian]

I think geohot is uppity and a glory-seeker. However, this case is not about geohot's attitude.

 

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

I'm not sure what to think about Mr. Hotz. Perhaps he is in need of a personality transplant. Whatever kind of ego he has, however, should not serve as a strawman for Sony apologists or in their favor. Currently his case serves as the only expression that the homebrew community currently has in the legal system against corporate and digital hegemony over a product. It would be illogical and reactionary not to support his struggle; it is directly bound up with the defense of the homebrew/hacking community as a whole.

The most rudimentary and cursory overview of Sony's actions so far demonstrates that they do not deserve to be defended. They're not simply trying to "protect" the PS3 from digital piracy, they're trying to establish a rigid monopoly over its use, and they were fully willing to steamroll over customer privacy by pursuing PATRIOT act-like measures to do it. This case may serve as a legal linchpin to the very progress of the homebrew/hacking community, and Mr. Hotz deserves whatever support he can get. Those of you who are calling for Mr. Hotz's expropriation and destruction should be ashamed. It would be constructive for you to be aware of the puppet strings that are hanging from your wrists when you try to justify your obtuse wailing in speaking of Mr. Hotz's "ego".

Again, Sony does not deserve to be defended.

/rant