Gaming [Poll] Do you think hackers deserve to play Pokémon competitively? Why or why not?

[Sliter]

You have no argument other than saying what you feel this and that. Just shut the fuck up you Hippie. No one give a shit about your illogical feelings.

talk to the substitute, bro

 

[Hyoretsu]

You can have a master metagame team without any gym badge playing fair? no.

I think you're forgetting about the key factor here: Pokébank. As soon as you get the Pokédex, which ALWAYS is before the 1st gym, you can get all your 721 lv. 100 Pokés from previous generations back. Then you have a master metagame team without any gym badge playing fair and square.

the difference is getting the result without having the work!

So in the concept, using a calculator is the same as genning Pokémon? You're just talking nonsense BS here.

 

[Sliter]

I think you're forgetting about the key factor here: Pokébank. As soon as you get the Pokédex, which ALWAYS is before the 1st gym, you can get all your 721 lv. 100 Pokés from previous generations back. Then you have a master metagame team without any gym badge playing fair and square.

yeah right, not like the mechanics change from game to agme just because that... or you think a lv100 from gen1 will

So in the concept, using a calculator is the same as genning Pokémon? You're just talking nonsense BS here.

again this ?? I told on the same phrase that is an exemplification, not that these are the same thing... how you want that I accept your arguments if you can't even understand that?

 

[banzai200]

Jesus, this thread is having a hate wave now
People, at the end of the day, cheating IS wrong, there's no way around it,
at the same time, there's no harm on wanting things to be faster, we are lazy by nature and competitive pokémon are not easy to get
the way i see it, all people play the game how they want to, and even if they cheat to have perfect pokémon, there are counters to it and you can play the same way than a person who genned a perfect iv shiny primal groudon
Hell, i did won so many battles against cheated pokémon with my team that's not even close to be 6 iv's pokémon
The game is yours (or at least you pirated it), play it the way you want, ISN'T THAT THE IDEA OF THE POKÉMON GAMES?

 

[K40T1K]

Play it the way you want, ISN'T THAT THE IDEA OF THE POKÉMON GAMES?

This, this, ever so much. The pissing matches the Pokemon community have are crazy. Drama all over the poke-verse.


So what I've gathered from these type of threads is the following, your cheating in pokemon if you:


generate pokemon via a program (They need to be caught in game);
do soft resets for stats and or shiny (This is abusing RNG);
tape your analog stick down to hatch mons (You must be present during every single step, and each step MUST be done by the tap of the analog stick);
using rare candies (You must battle);
using the daycare to level (You must battle);
using exp share (each mon MUST level ALONE);
import mons from bank (CURRENT GEN ONLY);
no trades (You must catch all your pokemon otherwise they aren't LEGIT);
all these things result in illegitimate pokemon in the eyes of the "POKEMASTAS."

Of course I'm being outlandish, because that's all an outsider sees, random people making up arbitrary rules chastising people they will probably NEVER even play against.

I'll gladly play with anyone, regardless of mons, why? The games fun, regardless of me winning or not.

 

[xile6]

Again quit talking semantics. I don't care if you think someone cheater if they use a gen pokemon. And how can you prove it that he cheated? A gen pokemon will have the exact same coding as one that's bred and trained properly. You have no argument other than talking about your feelings. People can play however they want. If you don't like it, then that's too fucking bad.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


You can't compare a turn style rpg to an FPS . Your argument is ridiculous.

So its fine to have a fore pokemon that knews water moves and is resistant to water moves?
Thats just fine with you?
Or a pokemon with 50pp of a move that should only have 10pp.

And its easy to compare it to a first person shooter. There both online games in which you play other people. Doesnt maker if its turn base or not.
Your still cheating and doing something outside of the rules.
A ground pokemon isnt suppose to knew a flying move. So adding a flying move to it. Is no were near fair.

But i guess you think thats just fine

 

[Hyoretsu]

So its fine to have a fore pokemon that knews water moves and is resistant to water moves?
Thats just fine with you?
Or a pokemon with 50pp of a move that should only have 10pp.

And its easy to compare it to a first person shooter. There both online games in which you play other people. Doesnt maker if its turn base or not.
Your still cheating and doing something outside of the rules.
A ground pokemon isnt suppose to knew a flying move. So adding a flying move to it. Is no were near fair.

But i guess you think thats just fine

That, my friend, THAT is cheating. Creating Pokémon that can't be acquired normally AKA hackmons. What we're defending is just genning LEGIT Pokémon (ex: Pikachu with 6IVs).

Also, some people may allow hackmons as long as it's a FULL hackmon battle between friends, just for the fun of seeing a Magikarp using Dragon Ascent.

 

[xile6]

That, my friend, THAT is cheating. Creating Pokémon that can't be acquired normally. What we're defending is just genning LEGIT Pokémon (ex: Pikachu with 6IVs).

That takes the work out of the game and the takes the venom out of a snake and your left with a belt lol.....

But no really. It is still cheating and to me it lessen the game.
You did no work to get there.
Kinda the same thing as micro transaction.
If you can just pay to upgrade everything. Whats the point in playing the game normally.

 

[Xiphiidae]

It is still cheating and to me it lessen the game.
You did no work to get there.

Lessens the game for you. Some people care primarily/solely about battling. No-one's forcing you to not breed/train your Pokémon.

Kinda the same thing as micro transaction.
If you can just pay to upgrade everything. Whats the point in playing the game normally.

This point has been made a thousand times in this thread. Some people want to cut straight the competitive battling, because that's what they find fun in. Other people, despite perhaps having the ability to gen, still train and breed legitimately all the time, because they get satisfaction out of that. Different things for different people. If it doesn't affect anyone else, what does it matter?

 

[RustInPeace]

So its fine to have a fore pokemon that knews water moves and is resistant to water moves?
Thats just fine with you?
Or a pokemon with 50pp of a move that should only have 10pp.

And its easy to compare it to a first person shooter. There both online games in which you play other people. Doesnt maker if its turn base or not.
Your still cheating and doing something outside of the rules.
A ground pokemon isnt suppose to knew a flying move. So adding a flying move to it. Is no were near fair.

But i guess you think thats just fine

The only way this flies is local battles, but also there are limits. The PP example can't even be done with PKHex, now with an unlimited PP, sure. Hardly anyone does local wireless battles, and surely some trust and agreements have to made there to ensure a fair game. Online, you can't get away with that at all, as I keep saying, you get a communication error, booted from the battle.

 

[Hyoretsu]

That takes the work out of the game and the takes the venom out of a snake and your left with a belt lol.....

But no really. It is still cheating and to me it lessen the game.
You did no work to get there.
Kinda the same thing as micro transaction.
If you can just pay to upgrade everything. Whats the point in playing the game normally.

So using a calculator is cheating for you? You think the professor shouldn't accept your homework (dunno if you're still in school or not, if not I'm sorry, just replace "You" with someone else's name) just because you used a calculator for the equations? You did no work to get the results.

"Cheating in video games involves a video game player using non-standard methods TO CREATE AN ADVANTAGE OR DISADVANTAGE BEYOND NORMAL GAMEPLAY, in order to make the game easier or harder." Straight from Wikipedia.

Also this.

 

[RustInPeace]

Lessens the game for you. Some people care primarily/solely about battling. No-one's forcing you to not breed/train your Pokémon.


This point has been made a thousand times in this thread. Some people want to cut straight the competitive battling, because that's what they find fun in. Other people, despite perhaps having the ability to gen, still train and breed legitimately all the time, because they get satisfaction out of that. Different things for different people. If it doesn't affect anyone else, what does it matter?

I'm the one that gens but still breeds and trains. Not legitimate with training, Blissey horde battle hacking and things like that. Today I caught a 6IV Kyurem, legit, heal ball. The only illegal thing is I used a hacked Deoxys, but think of it as a buffed up Smeargle, who'd know the same moves anyways. Other than that, big highlight of the day, and it's the right Kyurem for me. I counted the soft resets, it's not perfect, but consider this the minimum, being off by maybe 100: 13600 soft resets. Finally! My point with that is I actually don't play with legends that are genned, unless for a sudden battle. I prefer playing with them when legit caught and with legit great IDs, I have the time to soft reset (with a bot), so why not try and do it for real? After this Kyurem took so long to get, I'll put soft resetting on hold for now.

 

[andriy921]

But no really. It is still cheating and to me it lessen the game.

There is a big difference between singleplayer cheating and multiplayer cheating. And I've never seen any people complaining about singleplayer cheating in any other game

If you can just pay to upgrade everything. Whats the point in playing the game normally.

That's a completely different thing. I complete the game normally, at least for the first time. But after finishing main story and all the post game stuff, I'm only interested in battles. And breeding takes way to much time and is very boring. I'll emphasis this thing again just in case. I'm interested in rating battles and I'm not interested at all in breeding and grind. I have time for rating battles, but I don't want to spend my time on something that can be easily omited and shouldn't be there in the first place.

And honestly, I'm not very comfortable in cheating for team building. I would actually prefer if Nintendo introduced legit teambuilder, at least for the battlespot. In any case, it seems that they are trying to address this using renting teams, though it has it's own limitations.

 

[Xiphiidae]

I would actually prefer if Nintendo introduced legit teambuilder, at least for the battlespot. In any case, it seems that they are trying to address this using renting teams, though it has it's own limitations.

I completely agree with this. If there were going to be a new Stadium-like game for the Switch, I would love for it to have a type of battle that functions similar to Showdown.

 

[ferofax]

I think it would be pretty hypocritical if someone from THIS website, where most systems that can be hacked are hacked, thought that genning for legal builds is somehow an issue.

Who the fuck invented "legal builds" anyway? People cheating stuff and trying to make it appear legitimate by sticking within game parameters? They call that "legal" builds - pokemon that were "cheated into the game". Before all the PKhexing, it's just a build. No qualifier to the name, just plain old "build". But because of PKhexing, suddenly they needed to justify pokemon with legit stats that were generated by third-party software. So they call it "legal". Nevermind the fact that it was generated by a third-party software.

As for hypocrisy, yeah, maybe. But I would like to think a lot of people still believe competitions should be kept fair, and being fair usually means keeping hacked stuff out of competitions - unless the competition allows hacked stuff. Or if you're battling online, letting your opponent know that your pokemon is genned, so that they at least know what they're going up against. People not declaring genned pokemon is like people not declaring counterfeit stuff.

 

[Xiphiidae]

~snip~

You've missed the point that 'legal' genned Pokémon are indistinguishable from legit ones. You may think that the time saved by genning makes its use 'unfair', but many people disagree. I would like to know how using the definition of 'legal' for genned Pokémon is hypocrisy. As for letting your opponent know if you're using genned Pokémon or not, people could just lie (or not say anything), and there's literally no metric for determining whether a legal Pokémon is genned anyhow. You say "so that they at least know what they're going up against", but, again, what are they going up against? Pokémon identical to those obtained legitimately. The only difference between legal genned Pokémon and legit ones is time (and effort) saved by the one doing the genning.

Your counterfeit comparison is ridiculous. Genning a Pokémon that is byte-to-byte identical to one that was legitimately obtained is nothing like producing real-world counterfeits.

 

[ferofax]

You've missed the point that 'legal' genned Pokémon are indistinguishable from legit ones. You may think that the time saved by genning makes its use 'unfair', but many people disagree. I would like to know how using the definition of 'legal' for genned Pokémon is hypocrisy. As for letting your opponent know if you're using genned Pokémon or not, people could just lie (or not say anything), and there's literally no metric for determining whether a legal Pokémon is genned anyhow. You say "so that they at least know what they're going up against", but, again, what are they going up against? Pokémon identical to those obtained legitimately. The only difference between legal genned Pokémon and legit ones is time (and effort) saved by the one doing the genning.

Your counterfeit comparison is ridiculous. Genning a Pokémon that is byte-to-byte identical to one that was legitimately obtained is nothing like producing real-world counterfeits.

You've also missed the point that any genned pokemon, regardless of legitimacy, is a product of a third-party software, regardless of any byte-by-byte comparisons. All that proves is that the counterfeiter can produce 100% accurate counterfeits. Like, if I somehow managed to print money using the official money printers, the stuff I made would be 100% accurate, but it's still counterfeit because it didn't come from an official source.

In any competitive context, people not owning up to stuff other people should know is... eh. It's not good, nor fair. But I guess Pokemon genners don't give a fuck about fair, from seeing everybody's justifications. Time saved is well worth any sort of semblance of being fair.

Also, the only difference between legal genned Pokemon and legit ones is that one is legitimate and one is illegitimate. Legal, yes, but doesn't change the fact that it's illegitimate. And if you're taking illegitimate stuff into a competition... yeah, I'm gonna have issues with that.

 

[Xiphiidae]

All that proves is that the counterfeiter can produce 100% accurate counterfeits. Like, if I somehow managed to print money using the official money printers, the stuff I made would be 100% accurate, but it's still counterfeit because it didn't come from an official source.

Except counterfeiting money has negative effects on the market. No comparisons like this will be applicable to genning because the only difference is time saved; the end result is identical to that obtained by legitimate means. A better (but still not perfect) comparison would be to use magic to bake bread instantly from its ingredients instead of having to go through the entire baking process.

In any competitive context, people not owning up to stuff other people should know is... eh. It's not good, nor fair. But I guess Pokemon genners don't give a fuck about fair, from seeing everybody's justifications. Time saved is well worth any sort of semblance of being fair.

Please actually give some from of argument why genning is neither good nor fair. Your current argument just seems to be 'I don't like it, so it's not fair', which isn't very convincing. With legal genning, there's no effect on the outcomes of battles at all, so I don't really see how they could be 'unfair' on any functional level. And of course those who gen care about being fair; that's why they gen completely legal Pokémon that are indistinguishable from those obtained legitimately, they just don't care for breeding and training that much and just want to battle.

Time saved is well worth any sort of semblance of being fair.

It has no bearing on the Pokémon or the battles they're used in. Why would it impact fairness?

You've also missed the point that any genned pokemon, regardless of legitimacy, is a product of a third-party software, regardless of any byte-by-byte comparisons.

Also, the only difference between legal genned Pokemon and legit ones is that one is legitimate and one is illegitimate. Legal, yes, but doesn't change the fact that it's illegitimate.

Except there's no difference. Their origins may be illegitimate, but that has no bearing or effect or relevance to what they are in the game or in battle on any level at any time, as they are byte-for-byte identical (also their origins are only known to the one who genned/obtained them). Earlier in this thread I used the example of two battle-ready Pokémon, where one is legit and one is genned: I could tell you that the legit one was genned and the genned one was legit, and it wouldn't make any difference to either of us at all.

And if you're taking illegitimate stuff into a competition... yeah, I'm gonna have issues with that.

Why? There is literally no difference between legal genned and legit Pokémon. You would never be able to know if any Pokémon taken into competitions are illegitimate (provided they're legal). It doesn't affect you; why do you care so much?

 

[ferofax]

Why do you care so much?

If you can't see what's wrong with that, then that's fine. It's just a base, gut reaction for me. Anything illegitimate should have nothing to do with any competitions, unless specifically allowed. That holds true for almost every other game, every other competition besides Pokemon. Maybe because it's been normalized for Pokemon players, especially now that PKhex has been a thing for multiple generations. That shit don't fly with other games though.

 

[HuskyXD]

If you can't see what's wrong with that, then that's fine. It's just a base, gut reaction for me. Anything illegitimate should have nothing to do with any competitions, unless specifically allowed. That holds true for almost every other game, every other competition besides Pokemon. Maybe because it's been normalized for Pokemon players, especially now that PKhex has been a thing for multiple generations. That shit don't fly with other games though.

Nobody cares about your damn feelings. If you don't like it, then too fucking bad. Go cry somewhere else.