Hacking Storing 3DS games in the future with later Flash Carts.

[antwill]

We're gonna want flashcarts.

CFW will keep us stuck with SDHC limit.

That means 32GB max.

3DS games are gonna be as big as 8GB Nintendo said.

That's like only 7 or 8 games per card when now we can have 100+

Flashcarts will allow for SDXC

And just when I thought pirates couldn't feel any more entitled... You go and complain about not being able to have more than "only 7 or 8" games for free...

 

[MelodieOctavia]

We're gonna want flashcarts.

CFW will keep us stuck with SDHC limit.

That means 32GB max.

3DS games are gonna be as big as 8GB Nintendo said.

That's like only 7 or 8 games per card when now we can have 100+

Flashcarts will allow for SDXC

And just when I thought pirates couldn't feel any more entitled... You go and complain about not being able to have more than "only 7 or 8" games for free...

I don't think it's about entitlement, it's more the fact that people who use DS flash carts on average have close to 30 games on their cart. (not saying that pirates in general aren't whiny brats that want anything and everything for free.)

 

[Nollog]

You don't emulate hardware on the hardware you are emulating.

and...I am also tired of these "what if" threads.
There's two terms cowboy.
1. English
2. Technology

1. I emulated the way that girl looked by wearing my hair in a ponytail
2. I emulated my n64 using my pc since i'm so pro i can download files from the internet and be pro like that because i'm pro you see.

I don't get this thread.
Multiple reasons, and I can't wrap my head around them to start somewhere with those reasons.

Sooo, 2 isn't English?

Check it, DS flash carts do not emulate the DS. There is no need to EMULATE the hardware since you are already using said hardware. Therefore, a 3DS flashcart is not going to need to EMULATE a 3DS because it IS a 3DS. If the card he talks about runs 3DS games outside of the 3DS it is then EMULATING the 3DS.

It's English, but it's the same word having multiple meanings.
When someone says they emulate someone else' appearance, are you thinking they store a mii what looks like that person on their 3ds?
No. You think that they also tie their hair up in a ponytail or however the person looks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysemy

You can get 32GB micro-SD cards for about $13 each with SD and mini-SD adapters, or $15 with just an SD adapter.
I'm not sure if the 3DS is compatible with cards of that capacity.
3DS supports up to 32GB SDHC Cards and can be updated via firmware for SDXC cards running at slow speeds(I think the max would be about 15MB/s) up to 2TB in size.

Basically, they added support through a firmware update for larger SDHC cards, up to 32GB cards, which is awesome.
I can't see why now the 3DS wouldn't be able to take advantage of 32GB MicroSD (with SD adapters) cards in the future.
They do already.

From what I read, Nintendo's current games are around 2GB total, as that's what they said their "first generation" of game cartridges would be able to hold.
2GB is the largest available cartridge Nintendo are offering to 3rd parties to put their 3DS games on at the moment.
The company which provides those cartridges have developed 8GB cartridges, but those are probably never going to be needed.

QUOTE(games2007 @ Apr 17 2011, 06:57 PM)

Later games, they announced, could go up to 32gb.

They could, but the cartridges would cost an absolute fortune to make, and I doubt the 3DS would make use of 32GB of data, even some of the best-looking games on the PS3 don't use that much space.

QUOTE(games2007 @ Apr 17 2011, 06:57 PM)

$12-15 for the ability to hold at minimum 4 later generation games at a time is awesome.

Your math is way off.
Unless you're saying "later generation games" will only be 8GB, not the 32GB you claimed they could go up to.

QUOTE(games2007 @ Apr 17 2011, 06:57 PM)

When 3DS flash cards eventually come out, data could very well be cheaper than is currently is, and if you include that fact that you'd still be able to enjoy original NDS games, older consoles (pre-n64) and possibly GBA games, you'd be able to get some MAJOR use out of even a single 32GB Micro-SD card for the 3DS.

I suppose another issue is whether or not said Micro-SD cards will be going into the flash cart, or if the flash carts would be primarily working as an intermediary to emulate the 3DS (and other systems), and would be able to access the SD slot's files, or if it's going to be like traditional NDS flash carts which are equipped with a micro-SD slot for data access.

K. So you're the person selling those SD cards?

 

[gloweyjoey]

You don't emulate hardware on the hardware you are emulating.

and...I am also tired of these "what if" threads.
There's two terms cowboy.
1. English
2. Technology

1. I emulated the way that girl looked by wearing my hair in a ponytail
2. I emulated my n64 using my pc since i'm so pro i can download files from the internet and be pro like that because i'm pro you see.

I don't get this thread.
Multiple reasons, and I can't wrap my head around them to start somewhere with those reasons.

Sooo, 2 isn't English?

Check it, DS flash carts do not emulate the DS. There is no need to EMULATE the hardware since you are already using said hardware. Therefore, a 3DS flashcart is not going to need to EMULATE a 3DS because it IS a 3DS. If the card he talks about runs 3DS games outside of the 3DS it is then EMULATING the 3DS.

It's English, but it's the same word having multiple meanings.
When someone says they emulate someone else' appearance, are you thinking they store a mii what looks like that person on their 3ds?
No. You think that they also tie their hair up in a ponytail or however the person looks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysemy

This doesn't make any sense dude. Obviously the word has two meanings, that was never an issue. He was using it wrong and you repeating the definitions doesn't make him anymore correct. The card wouldn't EMULATE the 3DS in any meaning of the word.
em·u·late (my-lt)
tr.v. em·u·lat·ed, em·u·lat·ing, em·u·lates
1. To strive to equal or excel, especially through imitation: an older pupil whose accomplishments and style I emulated.
2. To compete with successfully; approach or attain equality with.
3. Computer Science To imitate the function of (another system), as by modifications to hardware or software that allow the imitating system to accept the same data, execute the same programs, and achieve the same results as the imitated system.[/p]
In case you have forgotten, you can read what he says below. Note when he says other systems he is correct but it wouldnt emulate the 3DS as its running ON a 3DS.
QUOTE(Heran Bago @ Apr 17 2011, 10:19 AM)

QUOTE(games2007 @ Apr 17 2011, 09:57 AM)

I suppose another issue is whether or not said Micro-SD cards will be going into the flash cart, or if the flash carts would be primarily working as an intermediary to emulate the 3DS (and other systems), and would be able to access the SD slot's files, or if it's going to be like traditional NDS flash carts which are equipped with a micro-SD slot for data access.

Historically speaking, Flash carts don't emulate the hardware that runs them.

 

[Foxi4]

What's the whole commotion about? I wouldn't mind if the flash cart would store 1 game.

Darn, I wouldn't mind a hardware solution either - it's not like its unavailable now. If you REALLY wanted to pirate 3DS games, you can start tomorrow morning. It's not rocket science, it's simple electronics.

 

[Nollog]

I just assumed she meant "emulating the 3ds game" rather than "emulate the 3ds hardware".
That is, makes the 3ds think it's the 3ds game by emulating it in the English sense.
Her English wasn't too super.

 

[DigitalDeviant]

What's the whole commotion about? I wouldn't mind if the flash cart would store 1 game.

Darn, I wouldn't mind a hardware solution either - it's not like its unavailable now. If you REALLY wanted to pirate 3DS games, you can start tomorrow morning. It's not rocket science, it's simple electronics.

It certainly is not simple electronics, otherwise the seasoned hackers would have done it by now.

 

[Foxi4]

You're all focusing too much about "how it works" rather than "does/will it work".

@Deviant In fact it is.

The structure of a 3DS game cart is simple - in plain terms for people not seasoned with electronic babble, they're two flash chips - one is large with its write capabilities crippled - it's called ROM. The other is a read-write module of smaller capacity, holding the save data.

Think back to GBC flash carts. All you really need to do to make a flashcart work for the 3DS is to remove the ROM chip physically, replace it with a compatible chip of equal or greater capacity, dump its contents via a microchip dumper, save the binary, program the binary onto the replacement chip and presto. That way you create a perfect mirror image of an original cart that you can write onto.

You can dump and program any 3DS binary that way. Disassemble cart - dump binary - put it onto the chip. 1 "modified" cart will do, but you'll have to sacrifice every cart you dump from. (Hello, release groups.)

It's obviously a limited solution, since it's plain hardware - you can store only 1 game that way. But you can. And that, my friend, is a fact.

Hackers don't generally do this, since software solutions are *much* more flexible. But first you need to launch unsigned code.

EDIT: Actually, I remember one group dumping DSi propers that way when iEvo was a distant dream and Wood Dumper was in its baby form. I think it was Xenophobia. They even posted a picture of their PIC-powered dumper (I think it was a PIC chip, the photo was blurry). Look it up, see for yourself.

 

[antwill]

We're gonna want flashcarts.

CFW will keep us stuck with SDHC limit.

That means 32GB max.

3DS games are gonna be as big as 8GB Nintendo said.

That's like only 7 or 8 games per card when now we can have 100+

Flashcarts will allow for SDXC

And just when I thought pirates couldn't feel any more entitled... You go and complain about not being able to have more than "only 7 or 8" games for free...

I don't think it's about entitlement, it's more the fact that people who use DS flash carts on average have close to 30 games on their cart. (not saying that pirates in general aren't whiny brats that want anything and everything for free.)

I'd say it's absolutely without a doubt about entitlement. Why do they need 30 games on the cart at once? Why do they feel they need more than 8? Don't they realise how silly they sound complaining about something so trivial?

 

[Foxi4]

It's not like it'd be a HUGE problem to carry a FEW SD cards, don't you think?

Just like normal gamers carry a few game carts?

You guys really like to nit-pick - a MicroSD is smaller than a fingernail, you can carry a freaking dozen, all in separate boxes with game names on them. Problem fixed.

 

[totalnoob617]

this thread is utterly ridiculous on its face,first off THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 32GB MICRO SD CARD!!. trust me i have looked high and low ,there are no 32 gb micro sd xc cards for sale anywhere
all i can find is 32 gb sd cards, any of the 32 gb micro sd cards i see are not credible and obviously fake
and the cheapest i have found 16gb micro sd for is $22 ,and trust me that is CHEAP
second there is no way that a 3ds game willl ever excede 8gb ,NEVER,and certainly not the ludicris 32gb limit mentioned ,there are barely any ps3 games of that size ,come on think about it the resolution of the 3ds would never require anything that big,i heard the limit is 2 gb and most games will be way under that
maybe 8gb in the distant future,MAYBE
and i think there are advantges and disadvantage to both sd hack and flashcards
first of all if its a flashcard you will need to take up room for the os of the card,albeit not much, but still
but i think its a much better way to go than a cfw i think,because id rather just emulate a real cart and be done with it,even if i do have to buy a new card,than have to play the fw update game
like with ps3,new fw's come out and then older cfw's cant get online access,and now there are fw requirements for portal 2 ,so now we have to wait till the new fw keys are found to decrypt it before we can play even a legit copy that we own ,without having to update and loose homebrew/cfw
cfw is always a headache ,just like xbins and 360 drive fw,you have to keep reflashing and waiting for new fw so you dont get banned,and that isnt even os fw its just drive fw
no thanks ill take a flashcard solution any day,sure its nice to have everything you need to mod your console and not have to buy anything ,but flashcards will be cheap enough,and i wont have to keep dealing with the update my fw and loose homebrew but get online and be able to play latest games ,dilema everytime ninty releases a new fw

 

[Deleted_171835]

this thread is utterly ridiculous on its face,first off THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 32GB MICRO SD CARD!!. trust me i have looked high and low ,there are no 32 gb micro sd xc cards for sale anywhere
all i can find is 32 gb sd cards, any of the 32 gb micro sd cards i see are not credible and obviously fake

Wrong.
http://shop.sandisk.com/store/sdiskca/en_C...uctID.183721400
http://www.buy.com/prod/sandisk-sdsdq-032g.../215191110.html
http://www.provantage.com/sandisk-sdsdq-03...1m~7SNDK2V2.htm

 

[machomuu]

this thread is utterly ridiculous on its face,first off THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 32GB MICRO SD CARD!!. trust me i have looked high and low ,there are no 32 gb micro sd xc cards for sale anywhere
all i can find is 32 gb sd cards, any of the 32 gb micro sd cards i see are not credible and obviously fake

Wrong.
http://shop.sandisk.com/store/sdiskca/en_C...uctID.183721400
http://www.buy.com/prod/sandisk-sdsdq-032g.../215191110.html
http://www.provantage.com/sandisk-sdsdq-03...1m~7SNDK2V2.htm

Seems like someone didn't use Google.

 

[Foxi4]

 

[totalnoob617]

ok well i stand corrected then

but i did use google ,that was my problem ,the 1st 15 pages just returned crap results like the op had for 13$ 32gb mico sd cards,(though it was about a moth or 2 ago,so maybe they werent available then ,or i just forgot)
i guess i should have just checked sandisks site directly,but after checking amazon,bestbuy and some other sites like newegg and not seeing any,i thought they were all fake

and i dont know why people would assume that if we got a cfw it would mean that we would be limited to sdhc cards,i mean look at wii ,we can now use ntfs partitions and that was never intended on a ofw
its cfw people thats why its custom ,so we can add custom features,like oh i dont know sdxc support.maybe
im not sating it will be easy as ntfs for wii took a long time ,and we just now got it for ps3 ,but we still cant launch backups from an external usb ntfs hdd,but we can now copy files from one to the internal drive,instead of having to split then on a fat32

and there are legitimate reasons that one would want to be able to load more than 6 games from a flashcard,i mean it is supposed to be a portable system,its the convenience of not having to carry a bunch of game carts with you ,but then again you could just carry 2 micro sd cards ,that would be nothing to carry,you could even use the sd slot on the 3ds to store the extra card in if you want

haha yeah you could buy 4 8gb cards but just remember your loosing more space that way cause you will have to use more space that way,because you will need a copy of the flashcards OS on each card,that 4 times the OS and 4 x the space used ,unless your talking about a cfw

 

[Foxi4]

We'll be restricted to SDHC not because it's in the OFW but because that's what the reader is compatible with. Unless you want to write an entire driver for an SDXC one and hack-and-slash your way to the SD controller chip. You're welcome to do so.

About copying OS to 4 cards - yes, because it'll take me a very consciderable ammount of space from the massive 8 (eight) gigs. Like... less than one mega? C'mon...

 

[totalnoob617]

yes your right its a small amount
and oh yea i didnt think of one thing though,...how many pins do the xc cards have?
do they have more that sdhc?and is the pin configuration the same if it has the same number?

is that why they cant be compatable,its not as simple as software upgrade,but the hardware is different,like a higher number of pins,or a different pin configuration ,and thats why it cant be done?
well if the xc cards do have more pins lets hope the transfer speeds will be greatly increaced,thats is really the only reason i can see them making a new format like that,to increace the speed, i mean im sure they could make the cards as big as they want with the same # of pins as a sdhc card ,but when you get into sizes over 32gb with that slow of a data transfer rate then it becomes impractical since it would take forever to write or read the larger data

 

[Bearpowers]

Lexar just released 128GB SDXC cards.

We should be seeing the first 64GB MicroSD in the near future.

And before the years end we will surely have a 128GB MicroSD.

SDXC support will be very convenient

Massive game storage makes the system all the more convenient all your library on a tiny chip.

I have a flashcart and I buy my DS games, it's ultimately more convenient to have them all in one card though.

It also allows for easier action replay codes, pokesaving etc.

We have no idea the average file size for 3D movies but I expect them to be pretty big for a 400 x 240 video(I guess twice as big as a 2D film?)

All that storage has plenty of use.

 

[totalnoob617]

yeah it is much more convienient ,but i doubt we see 64gb micro by years end ,definitly not 128,for some reason they always delay making the jump to micro sd from sd i dont know why


and no the 3d movies are pre-rendered so they will be the same size ,just like a 3d blu ray disc is the same size as a 2d bluray movie disc, the 3d is already renederd

 

[Nollog]

yes your right its a small amount
and oh yea i didnt think of one thing though,...how many pins do the xc cards have?
do they have more that sdhc?and is the pin configuration the same if it has the same number?

is that why they cant be compatable,its not as simple as software upgrade,but the hardware is different,like a higher number of pins,or a different pin configuration ,and thats why it cant be done?
well if the xc cards do have more pins lets hope the transfer speeds will be greatly increaced,thats is really the only reason i can see them making a new format like that,to increace the speed, i mean im sure they could make the cards as big as they want with the same # of pins as a sdhc card ,but when you get into sizes over 32gb with that slow of a data transfer rate then it becomes impractical since it would take forever to write or read the larger data

They can update the sdhc module to be compatible with the lowest speed sdxc cards(up to 104mB/s).