Hacking This pirate disease

[Deleted User]

Well, don't blame me for not buying originals. They cost a hell here in Malaysia, that's why most pirate, because of the high-price goodies.

I would've bought Disaster and No More Heroes, but hey, since they put RM249 on each, it's not reasonable for that amount of money. I would want pizza with that money instead.

 

[FAST6191]

I was not going to join at first but I figured I might as well.
The OP appears to state that something along the lines of
"Straight up piracy as in that behind closed doors is expected and arguably does little to impair profit margins/damage the industry.
However with things such as they are now with a very public website like this one and all the others carrying in depth explicit instructions and simplified tools enabling piracy by anyone with a token amount of computing knowledge and some readily available equipment or even just knowledge of a language can pull off near flawless piracy it means damage may well be caused".

This seems remarkably similar to some of the "scene proper" ethos. To what level the OP is affiliated I am unsure, without digging and looking at the choice of words/terms (what the hell is hardcore) I am inclined to say less rather than more. Nothing wrong with that though.

My response. I have and a dare say a lot of the people replying too long been removed from the average person as far as electronics and computing is concerned to know what the average person knows but I would be inclined to say it is still a fairly limited group of people that can pull off wii hacks.
Also if you are going by initial postings of people I will say I have followed a fair few and what started off at the level you appear to dislike have very rapidly become people contributing high level stuff (we can not all be master hackers but much of the "grunt work" is still complex and tedious and appreciated by many).

Also I will compare to the film and music, here the knowledge required is minuscule (in the case of music both ripping and playing and video is easy to play) beyond the ability to get files (distribution is a different matter).
Here I believe you can see the isolationist principle you seem to advocate in action, granted my example focuses more on the scene proper than what you speak of but I stand by it: p2p as it is so called was traditionally the realm of the bad quality stuff and there was a wall/divide between that and the scene proper. Today if I look out over the p2p realms I can see some very interesting things (especially in the video arena) while the scene proper works but struggles with a somewhat antiquated rule set (the nuke reasons border on the absurd most of the time and simple changes would result in better quality).

In the end though I say let anyone in although we need to stay very firm on the meritocracy idea that it started out as.

re: companies going bust. I do not know about any of you but as long as I have been playing games I have seen companies going bust and merging with others for financial reasons. I have yet to see any conclusive or even credible evidence of piracy playing an important role in any of that (replies to such a statement need good links or a well researched essay please and not just a soundbite at that).

At the risk of derailing things how much of the troubles faced are caused by bad/antiquated business practice/methods and pricing: two ways to get more money for a product 1) is sell more and 2) is sell for a higher price. 2) tends to preclude 1) in most cases and I do recall earlier points in time.

@TrolleyDave do you mean speak to paradox and anthrox for info on how to run the wii scene based on amiga/similar experience or their PS3 experience (I guess we are talking unreleased stuff again)?

 

[bowser]

Well, don't blame me for not buying originals. They cost a hell here in Malaysia, that's why most pirate, because of the high-price goodies.

Nintendo doesn't even SELL their stuff here in India, forget about it being expensive. So I have no choice but to pirate. If Nintendo started selling their systems and games here, I would gladly buy the originals.

 

[triassic911]

Lol, Whoever said the ps3 scene is gone is incorrect. It's alive and kicking, it's just underground now. Lot's of new stuff is happening to it but it isn't public info like the wii scene is.

 

[wingzrow]

Like it or not nintendo switched their target demographic to casual gamers after the gamecube failed to pull in numbers. The people hacking are not their target audience and do little to impact nintendo's wii game and system sales.

 

[TrolleyDave]

@TrolleyDave do you mean speak to paradox and anthrox for info on how to run the wii scene based on amiga/similar experience or their PS3 experience (I guess we are talking unreleased stuff again)?

At the mo there's lots of talk about the Paradox PS3 loader but I've not personally seen it. I've never really looked into the PS3 scene properly though so if it actually exists or not I'm unsure, if it does exist then it's definitely a great example. No I'm just talking about the generalness of how quiet they kept it, but it was still open to any that could actually find their way there and prove the minimal knowledge necessary to be a part of it. The problem I find with the Wii scene, or the fringe part of it anyway, is that people are looking for bragging rights among the general public. All the people creating insta-pirate packages for the uninitiated are a good example. If people find their way into the scene with a little bit of knowledge and are looking for answers/information then by all means expand their knowledge, but still make it so the people have to do a bit of learning. At the mo everything is on public view put up by people who aren't really interested in furthering the scene, they're looking into furthering their name among people who don't realize that all they've done is bundled a bunch of other peoples work together.

 

[Midnightzak]

this thread makes me lol inside...

 

[kimikal27]

this thread makes me lol inside...

it makes lol all over...

useless useless useless

 

[z0mbiew0lf]

the Wii itself is doing amazing, but even so, a few hackers making the effort to go buy hardcore games from those up-and-coming developers wouldn't be a terrible thing.

I, personally love collecting games, but as a 16 year old in a college prep school with no sort of income whatsoever (prep school doesnt mean we're rich, we're just barely paying for it :/ ), its almost impossible for me to afford siad games. I figure when I'm older I can just buy the games and leave em wrapped while I carry 30 at a time on a flashcart.

Imports are a different story. Unless you're a collector, its a waste of money and time to try to buy imports, which are for some reason almost always overpriced.

 

[Deleted User]

the Wii itself is doing amazing, but even so, a few hackers making the effort to go buy hardcore games from those up-and-coming developers wouldn't be a terrible thing.

I, personally love collecting games, but as a 16 year old in a college prep school with no sort of income whatsoever (prep school doesnt mean we're rich, we're just barely paying for it :/ ), its almost impossible for me to afford siad games. I figure when I'm older I can just buy the games and leave em wrapped while I carry 30 at a time on a flashcart.

Imports are a different story. Unless you're a collector, its a waste of money and time to try to buy imports, which are for some reason almost always overpriced.

I agree with your statement. We're almost identical. Not rich, no income, gonna buy originals when hit the 18s.

 

[FAST6191]

@TrolleyDave do you mean speak to paradox and anthrox for info on how to run the wii scene based on amiga/similar experience or their PS3 experience (I guess we are talking unreleased stuff again)?

At the mo there's lots of talk about the Paradox PS3 loader but I've not personally seen it. I've never really looked into the PS3 scene properly though so if it actually exists or not I'm unsure, if it does exist then it's definitely a great example. No I'm just talking about the generalness of how quiet they kept it, but it was still open to any that could actually find their way there and prove the minimal knowledge necessary to be a part of it. The problem I find with the Wii scene, or the fringe part of it anyway, is that people are looking for bragging rights among the general public. All the people creating insta-pirate packages for the uninitiated are a good example. If people find their way into the scene with a little bit of knowledge and are looking for answers/information then by all means expand their knowledge, but still make it so the people have to do a bit of learning. At the mo everything is on public view put up by people who aren't really interested in furthering the scene, they're looking into furthering their name among people who don't realize that all they've done is bundled a bunch of other peoples work together.

I heard rumblings as well but they must have kept an incredibly tight lid on it (not impossible by any means but looking at what has gone on the last few years an impressive one none the less). I am equally behind in all matters PS3 and it holds no real allure for me right now.
Although you did not address it I suppose I should clarify one of my earlier statements as well, when I spoke of grunt work I was thinking more along the lines of the wad packers and those participating in rom injection, further reverse engineering, system menu tweaking and what have you. The knowledge required there is not all that great when it comes down to it but it is certainly a skill not all that many can claim.

The question then is how to create this "entry level", the easiest way I can see if offer some very far reaching customisations (I am thinking new "dashboards" with sharply varying abilities and intentions). Done correctly it would not even require people to sideline existing methods all that much. Although it was an artificial barrier of sorts the first few weeks after trucha when the common key was "rare" probably provide a good example of how it could be, a better example might be those wishing to enter the original xbox homebrew world presently (ignoring things like AID).
For the wii I guess it would be a serious implementation of patchmii, preloader and tweaks on apps like starfall (so think starfall x 100) and perhaps introduce a scripting language of sorts to create modules for it and tie in some of the existing patching/repair and homebrew downloading apps. Clearly a far more attractive proposition than what presently exists and with the potential to do far more. Only problem is something like bootmii will have to appear and some more reverse engineering will have to be done.

 

[grubbymitts]

At the mo there's lots of talk about the Paradox PS3 loader but I've not personally seen it.

If you believe them, it was around, but only for firmware below 1.7 I think. However, Paradox aren't the same group as they were back in the Amiga days. Many of the original members left years ago and what is left is not much more than a bunch of kids who weren't even born when the miggy was out that have latched onto the name and have some TopSite access. Nothing more than glorified traders with a small amount of talent if you believe the things that get banded around certain channels.

 

[Phratt]

Big words

Okay, you my good sir use too many big words. Which is surprising since you don't even know what hardcore games are =P.

Anyways, heres the Gist of what I'm saying. I assume you all have some sort of care for the Wii and want good games on it. Good games rely on sales. A few thousand people pirating games does no harm but the more that number increases the slimmer the chances are for us to get more good games. Im not telling you or anyone you know to stop pirating, Im just saying, try not to get everyone who doesn't necessarily ask to be pirate into the scene. Its just unnecessarily hurting Everyone, you, me and the People that don't pirate.

For those of you who don't know. Hardcore games are games made for traditional gamers. They are generally First person shooters, RPGs, and the likes of those. There are many on the wii already (contrary to popular belief), and There will be a plethora in the upcoming year. But if no one buys the games or not enough people do, then These Hardcore games won't see sequels. They'll be canned and us wii owners will get nothing but Minigame fests and cooking games.

Im not telling you what to do, Im ASKING, just please try to keep your new found glory to yourself and not tell everyone around your block about it.

 

[gundalf]

People dont like to hear the trueth.

 

[kimikal27]

People dont like to hear the trueth.

i never hacked a wii but mine and told no one so i dont really know what your talking about...

 

[FAST6191]

Big words

Okay, you my good sir use too many big words. Which is surprising since you don't even know what hardcore games are =P.

Anyways, heres the Gist of what I'm saying. I assume you all have some sort of care for the Wii and want good games on it. Good games rely on sales. A few thousand people pirating games does no harm but the more that number increases the slimmer the chances are for us to get more good games. Im not telling you or anyone you know to stop pirating, Im just saying, try not to get everyone who doesn't necessarily ask to be pirate into the scene. Its just unnecessarily hurting Everyone, you, me and the People that don't pirate.

For those of you who don't know. Hardcore games are games made for traditional gamers. They are generally First person shooters, RPGs, and the likes of those. There are many on the wii already (contrary to popular belief), and There will be a plethora in the upcoming year. But if no one buys the games or not enough people do, then These Hardcore games won't see sequels. They'll be canned and us wii owners will get nothing but Minigame fests and cooking games.

Im not telling you what to do, Im ASKING, just please try to keep your new found glory to yourself and not tell everyone around your block about it.

Interesting.

Hardcore games: I had heard the term but it smacked of the usual pointless marketing drivel/inferiority complex some seem to have and to my mind what you written does nothing to alleviate such a perception. Add in the conflicting definitions and I gave up.

Case in point.
The genres you mention as being the main domain of hardcore games. The implication there is that a given genre is largely the domain of a minority or sorts which "we" appear to find ourselves in (your opinion is then that by pirating such a genre will go undeveloped as companies look after the bottom line).
Being a minority would imply a low sales volume and you further it by saying such a volume is about enough to cause things to break even. Step in some stats (about as raw as we are going to get so hopefully no need for accusations of usual stats associated fiddling):
http://www.vgchartz.com/ some at kotaku as well. No lack of FPS and RPGs being represented there.

Sequels. When terms such as sequelitis have been coined (although the existence of the phenomena of cash in sequels has long been known in other entertainment/high profit mediums) that surely means something. The vast majority of sequels and pseudo sequels do not break that much ground.
I may have to come back and amend such a statement if we are to consider game engines too.
I know we speak of the wii but the 360 does not seem to be lacking in this regard and it too I would argue has a similar level of piracy (although I have no hard evidence on this as such evidence is impossible to come by). Simply looking at the releases last year shows no lack of numbers following names and few new titles

Sales: "good games rely on". I would say a good dev team used well is what makes games. I suppose then it is whether you ascribe to the idea that teams need to pay the piper before making good games or not.

As for "care for the wii" I am not quite sure how to respond, I believe survival of the fittest is the order of the day for most around here rather than any "care" per se.

 

[Phratt]

The 360 is uncomparable though as they are Satuarted by Hardcore gamers. Developers as we speak, hesitate on creating hardcore Wii games, In fear of them not selling. If the piracy demographics increases at this rate, the fears of the developers will be assured and result in less hardcore games being developed for the Wii in the future.

Both you and I Know that no one Pirates to get Wii play for free, the games being pirated are Mostly hardcore games, games which we actually need to sell.

 

[FlatFrogger]

I'm surprised this topic isn't locked yet as all piracy arguments are circular. People have different motives for what makes them pirate and even if they do pirate it doesn't mean they constantly download every game on the net never to purchase again.

You often find the majority "try before they buy" simply looking for something that will cater for their tastes.

Not to mention piracy talks are always full of hypocrisy and people trying to pull the moral high ground, which is BS as it stands.

 

[Cius]

The thing is most of wii's game library isnt worth buying. I've pirated a lot of games already but i do have my share of games which i bought because as a pirate i feel it is an obligation to pirate shitty games to let companies know their games aren't worth buying. I still bought elebits, ssbb, re4, zelda, mario galaxy, batallion wars 2, mario kart, metroid prime, no more heroes, Megaman 9. I plan on buying monster hunter in the future and quite a few games this year but frankly the amount of games to pirate far outnumber the games to buy.

 

[Fakie!]

I agree with the OP. Not with everything he said. But I also think that there's no need for people to be telling everyone they know how to pirate or to make those noob-proof guides. Why turn potential game buyers into pirates? Piracy on Wii is becoming TOO easy, and too mainstream.

The OP's not telling people not to pirate, he's telling people to stop spreading piracy. If things keep going like this, even our dogs will be able to pirate Wii games, and that can't be a good thing.