Hacking Question Why are there nearly no homebrews for the Switch?

[Deleted-442439]

Those are proprietary services, some of which with open APIs that arent necessarily open source developers darlings.

Where are those apps for my Switch has a little bit of the "where is the homebrew solution, so I can give those companies my money - but none to the open source devs of course, and in addition don't have to think about the ecosystems I am buying into.

So Its not necessarily a great fit. For youtube people usually are inclined to go with youtube-dl implementations (like in Kodi), which indeed are a thing in the scene. Thats why it is in brackets.

Also - if you have seen the "why would you need android" questions in the past, this is basically the answer. Android is a layer commercial entities develop for, because they are allowed to and you put a credit card in there..

Well, we don't even need the API's to make webapps, most of the services have "web players"

For a Youtube app all you would need is a webapplet that goes to https://www.youtube.com/tv#/browse-sets?c=default&resume with some custom css. That is literally what the Wii U and 3DS apps do lol, so once the Homebrew scene matures it will become incredibly easy to make apps for those services.

 

[anhminh]

Isn't it better to just polish Linux on Switch. Linux based program is better and doesn't need porting over.

 

[Shadowfied]

but if I could develop, than the first thing I would do is to create a new thread here to showcase my project

Literally the most stupid and most destructive mindset one can have.
How the fuck do you think anyone in this world made anything ever?

 

[OblivionReign]

First of all I don't want to offend someone, but just by looking around Ive noticed that there are barely any native homebrews for the Nintendo Switch. Im just curious if all coders out there are waiting for CFW to develop something.

Do homebrews for firmware 1.0-3.0 even work on the upcoming atmosphere CFW?
If yes, why is there no progress in that regard?

I mean there are hundreds of great things, which Im sure the Switch could handle very well like:
- YouTube App
- PDF-Reader
- Streaming Steam, PS4 or Xbox One to the Switch
- Netflix App
- Spotify App
- Philips Hue App
- Lot of Homebrew-Games
- Lot of Emulators

If atmosphere CFW would be released today, the average user actually wouldn't benefit that much right now, since there are "no" homebrews to use.
What do you think?

Im in the process of writing a freeshop port for switch but it still takes a while to code everything out lol. Dont expect devs to have a ton of things immediately. Patience is a virtue my friend.

 

[notimp]

Well, we don't even need the API's to make webapps, most of the services have "web players"

For a Youtube app all you would need is a webapplet that goes to https://www.youtube.com/tv#/browse-sets?c=default&resume with some custom css. That is literally what the Wii U and 3DS apps do lol, so once the Homebrew scene matures it will become incredibly easy to make apps for those services.

Hmm indeed. That should make things much easier. html5 ftw.. But then the usage experience would suffer a little - which wouldn't be too bad, all things considered.. I guess we can haz all those things..

Edit: Ah, here is why not.

Doesnt netflix f.e. depend on DRM subsystems or "applets" that might not be compatible?
Spotify might do as well.

As soon as theres a "install quicksilver" dependecy (hrhr), we lose.. If anyone knows, please share.

edit: This is game over for Spotify (using the webapplet - using the API might still be possible):

For: Google Chrome, Firefox, and Edge.

If you see the message “Playback of protected content is not enabled” (or a similar error message) when you try to use the web player, you simply need to enable the Widevine plugin or download a media pack. Select your browser below to find out how.

https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/system_settings/enable-the-spotify-web-player/

And this edit: might be game over for Netflix - using the webapplet approach:
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 Maybe they allow SD playback for "non supported browsers" though, so it might not be intirely impossible as of now..

 

[Tilde88]

On 1.0.0 and 2.1.0 most emulators currently are unstable (not a reason to update though if you are on 1.0.0.. ), and SciresM launched HBL from atmosphere as a proof of concept, not because thats the thing to do.. Although it could be.. (Once CFW is released and can be booted into, whatever launches .nros in there will become the new de facto standard - because almost everyone in the scene will be able to use it.)

So currently (de facto) its a 3.0.0 thing only. But that will change.

No. Hb runs perfect on my 2.3

 

[samthebreadman]

An actual answer is that the sdk just isn't there yet. There's no documentation to libnx, it's being actively developed each day, and it's really barebones. There isn't a proper SDK that would allow developers to easily create Switch apps (a la iOS' UIKit or Android's Views) so everything has to be done by hand. There is a preliminary port of SDL2 but most SDL games are written in SDL1.2 which was developed and then went MIA. I think there's a branch on devkitpro's github that should sorta function but it's missing joystick support and lacks the other libs like SDL_Image, SDL_Mixer, etc. Oh, and the fact that the Switch runs a proprietary OS means porting a lot of libraries won't be simple. We also don't have any hardware acceleration in either libnx or these SDL ports. That would lead to a huge increase in functionality but we're just not there yet. Once we get that going then maybe we will see OpenGL support which would vastly increase the amount of homebrew accessible to the device.

As it stands, making a YouTube client would mean:

1. Writing your own UI code nearly from scratch (buttons, thumbnails, animations, menus, etc).
2. Writing the networking code to interact with their API.
3. Writing the code or porting a library to parse the JSON response
4. Porting something like ffmpeg to process a video file
5. Writing a Video view that interacts with ffmpeg and handles drawing each frame and syncing the audio.
6. Thennnnn you have the other YouTube things like playlists, search, user accounts, home page, reviews, etc, etc.

People need to understand just how fucking early it is in this device's lifecycle. A lot of you are acting as if developers can just open Xcode and make a fun app but are just choosing not to.

You couldn't be more spot on. :-)

 

[DogParty]

Well, we don't even need the API's to make webapps, most of the services have "web players"

For a Youtube app all you would need is a webapplet that goes to https://www.youtube.com/tv#/browse-sets?c=default&resume with some custom css. That is literally what the Wii U and 3DS apps do lol, so once the Homebrew scene matures it will become incredibly easy to make apps for those services.

Alright, then you port a web browser.

It’s wild how little some of you guys actually know about software development and yet contribute to these discussions. We don’t have access to Nintendo’s SDK so we can’t use the built-in browser views. That’s why there’s no Horizon-esque homebrew yet. Maybe there’s a basic svc call to open a browser to a URL but I would be surprised.

 

[reminon]

Um, there are like 5 fw that can do hbm. 1.0.0 through 3.0.0 can all launch hbm. And if you are SciresM, you can launch hbm anywhere

Ah, I missed that...too many work hours the last few weeks. Haha. Even then, you're still talking really low firmware. My underlying point still holds, once it is open to all firmware, we are sure to see more homebrew.

 

[notimp]

No. Hb runs perfect on my 2.3

The HBL on 1.0.0 - 2.1.0 thread seemed to indicate otherwise, but maybe that was only for users on 1.0.0 - good to know.

 

[MattKimura]

First of all I don't want to offend someone, but just by looking around Ive noticed that there are barely any native homebrews for the Nintendo Switch. Im just curious if all coders out there are waiting for CFW to develop something.

Do homebrews for firmware 1.0-3.0 even work on the upcoming atmosphere CFW?
If yes, why is there no progress in that regard?

I mean there are hundreds of great things, which Im sure the Switch could handle very well like:
- YouTube App
- PDF-Reader
- Streaming Steam, PS4 or Xbox One to the Switch
- Netflix App
- Spotify App
- Philips Hue App
- Lot of Homebrew-Games
- Lot of Emulators

If atmosphere CFW would be released today, the average user actually wouldn't benefit that much right now, since there are "no" homebrews to use.
What do you think?

This is the beginning of a hacking scene, of course there aren't much homebrew or usable hacks right now. Everything just started development and takes a lot of time to be done. It's way too early to be complaining about the lack of homebrew, there should be no expectations right now (Or ever for that matter, we're not entitled to anything)
Welcome to a hacking scene. Here's how things work, you just wait. Suggestions are cool, but not complaints. Nobody can do magic or fast forward time. It's not like someone's gonna start developing something because they saw your complaint and thought it was a good idea. They do it under their own free will and time. Rushing devs or asking for release dates is completely irrelevant in a hacking scene.
I know how you're feeling. Having to buy a switch now, then waiting many months later to finally be able to do something with it. It's well worth the wait knowing that the switch will have a hacking future in due time as long as we wait for it.

 

[James310]

Homebrew for the Switch is fairly new and a CFW release for native homebrew loading will cause it to skyrocket

 

[carstene1ns]

To be honest, CFW will not magically bring you homebrew ports/programs.
As is, the Switch is a fragile homebrew platform, you need to be careful not to do certain things or it will greet you with a crash screen.
The emulators are not helpful here, as they may skip things for HLE.

Video and Audio hardware access can be painful to do right now, too. As said before, we have no video hardware acceleration currently.

Also, why do we need the same things for every platform over and over again? You can simply take out your other consoles (like PSP or 3DS) and play the same stuff there.
Speaking of the 3DS, I have not seen many homebrew games that make use of the 3D hardware and the Switch does not even have no such exiting feature.
It is cool that you can utilize 4 cores and have a lot of RAM to play with, but this really needs new projects, not ports of the old.
Do not get me wrong, I also want to have the possibility to play some older games on my Switch, but I really want to see some awesome stuff.

Things like Youtube, Netflix and such might come from official sources sooner or later, no need to focus on that as homebrew.

 

[Deleted User]

in my view this video is why



thanks to cpas and the large screen of the switch i can play 2 player fighting games outside of the home comfortably. No other previous console i am aware of can claim that...not saying on 2 separate consoles key issue here is on just one...

 

[KingBlank]

First of all I don't want to offend someone, but just by looking around Ive noticed that there are barely any native homebrews for the Nintendo Switch. Im just curious if all coders out there are waiting for CFW to develop something.

Do homebrews for firmware 1.0-3.0 even work on the upcoming atmosphere CFW?
If yes, why is there no progress in that regard?

I mean there are hundreds of great things, which Im sure the Switch could handle very well like:
- YouTube App
- PDF-Reader
- Streaming Steam, PS4 or Xbox One to the Switch
- Netflix App
- Spotify App
- Philips Hue App
- Lot of Homebrew-Games
- Lot of Emulators

If atmosphere CFW would be released today, the average user actually wouldn't benefit that much right now, since there are "no" homebrews to use.
What do you think?

Because the main exploit used to load the homebrew launcher for the last few months was unreliable, and as a result it was a pain to develop for the switch.

 

[the_randomizer]

The real question is, why can't be more patient and calm their tits instead of making threads on why there isn't anything yet?

 

[fenomeno0chris]

Like I said before I'm not impatient, I just wanted to learn and understand why there are not so much new projects for the Switch.

-People wanting to write native homebrew need a switch with 1.0.0-3.0.0
-Public ways to test homebrew are only out since a small while, so no real examples etc. are avaible
-GPU rendering doesn't work yet

An actual answer is that the sdk just isn't there yet. There's no documentation to libnx, it's being actively developed each day, and it's really barebones. There isn't a proper SDK that would allow developers to easily create Switch apps (a la iOS' UIKit or Android's Views) so everything has to be done by hand. There is a preliminary port of SDL2 but most SDL games are written in SDL1.2 which was developed and then went MIA. I think there's a branch on devkitpro's github that should sorta function but it's missing joystick support and lacks the other libs like SDL_Image, SDL_Mixer, etc. Oh, and the fact that the Switch runs a proprietary OS means porting a lot of libraries won't be simple. We also don't have any hardware acceleration in either libnx or these SDL ports. That would lead to a huge increase in functionality but we're just not there yet. Once we get that going then maybe we will see OpenGL support which would vastly increase the amount of homebrew accessible to the device.

As it stands, making a YouTube client would mean:

1. Writing your own UI code nearly from scratch (buttons, thumbnails, animations, menus, etc).
2. Writing the networking code to interact with their API.
3. Writing the code or porting a library to parse the JSON response
4. Porting something like ffmpeg to process a video file
5. Writing a Video view that interacts with ffmpeg and handles drawing each frame and syncing the audio.
6. Thennnnn you have the other YouTube things like playlists, search, user accounts, home page, reviews, etc, etc.

People need to understand just how fucking early it is in this device's lifecycle. A lot of you are acting as if developers can just open Xcode and make a fun app but are just choosing not to.

As @DogParty points out, the biggest problem is 'SDK' -- homebrew authors to be legit, still a gray area, want to at least use a open-source SDK, and one has not existed that is good since the days of PS3 scene. -- otherwise you have to use highly illegal leaked nintendo official sdk, and then if homebrew made with it, you could not be able to link to complied binary or source code of it.

Now I understand!
Thank you very much. I always thought once you got access to a whole system, you can easily write apps for it.
But I learned, that there are still a lot of things to do, before it can be done.

 

[nmkd]

To be honest, CFW will not magically bring you homebrew ports/programs.

I mean, it kinda does because it increases the demand A LOT.

Developers will dedicate more time to the scene if their target group is bigger, and right now it's tiny.

 

[pdapanda]

Just because most of the members in this scene are filthy pirates.they do not care about homebrew at all.
Don't try to seek excuse，the scene is less active than ps Vita early scene.

 

[comput3rus3r]

Don't get me wrong, Im absolutely able to wait and have patience.
Its just I don't see useful threads here on the "Switch Hacking & Homebrew" corner. There are barely new threads where some developers start a homebrew project for example.

I know its totally stupid to say, but if I could develop, than the first thing I would do is to create a new thread here to showcase my project and generate some help and listen to feedback.

if you could develop you wouldn't be saying such stu... err silly things.