Pokemon Black and White 2 announced for DS

[heartgold]

They usually take their sweet time on the new engine, preparing 6th gen for the 3DS is no easy task for them, you dig?

It took them 4 years to create diamond/pearl.

I'll be honest, if it took them 4 years for the Diamond/Pearl engine, then their either terrible at developing or incredibly slow. I know new engines take time but the engine itself is basically a graphical upgrade of the GBA games with some minor gameplay changes and better looking sprites.

For the record, Unreal Engine 3, from when it began development to the first game released for it, took about 3-3 1/2 years.

Exactly my point. Gamefreak hasn't really given the Pokemon engines any major changes, just minor re-touching. All Pokemon games are essentially the same game with more Pokemon - I'd really like to see a game developed a'la Pokemon XD - hopefuly in third person perspective and in 3D, is it too much to ask for in the 21st century?

I can understand that some people are attached to the isometric view, but they could at least introduce models for characters and allow rotation of the camera - it'd open up possibilities for hidden paths that are visible only from certain angles etc. etc. I honestly have a feeling that their games became... incredibly stale over the years.

Lol you have to take note of the hardware they have been working with, gba nor ds had the best of power. Pokemon b/w had a nice 3D feel to it, one of the cities was just wow and brigde walk looked sleek.

 

[Foxi4]

Lol you have to take note of the hardware they have been working it, gba nor ds had the best of power. Pokemon b/w had a nice 3D feel to it, one of the cities was just wow and brigde walk looked sleek.

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It *can be done*, I hope it's established now. Perhaps not on the GBA, but I haven't seen a worthy successor so-far on the DS, and I'd like to remind you that they had quite some time to release a proper DS game.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Lol you have to take note of the hardware they have been working it, gba nor ds had the best of power. Pokemon b/w had a nice 3D feel to it, one of the cities was just wow and brigde walk looked sleek.

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It *can be done*, I hope it's established now. Perhaps not on the GBA, but I haven't seen a worthy successor so-far on the DS, and I'd like to remind you that they had quite some time to release a proper DS game.

Yeah sure, it can be done but it would look like shit. The sprite-based style of Pokemon trumps the visuals of all the games you just shown. 3D polygonal graphics for Pokemon can stay on the consoles. The handheld games should stick with sprites for the overworld (and battles although not as much of a concern).

 

[Foxi4]

Yeah sure, it can be done but it would look like shit.

That's a matter of taste, I think Fossil Fighters look quite alright, and even provided they kept the sprites in Battle Mode, nothing was stopping them from creating a pleasant and detailed overworld. I have hopes for a 3DS sequel. THEN hardware constraints will no longer be a good enough excuse.

 

[heartgold]

You'll be running into memory issues with 649 pokemon 3D models, aminations during battles, let alone a whole region in 3D. Pokemon b/w already uses the 256MB card.

 

[Skelletonike]

Yeah sure, it can be done but it would look like shit.

That's a matter of taste, I think Fossil Fighters look quite alright, and even provided they kept the sprites in Battle Mode, nothing was stopping them from creating a pleasant and detailed overworld. I have hopes for a 3DS sequel. THEN hardware constraints will no longer be a good enough excuse.

I actually prefered both Fossil Fighters to the Pokemon games for the DS... Seeing as they're both games published by Nintendo for the DS... Pokemon could've used some of the things that Fossil Fighter had.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Yeah sure, it can be done but it would look like shit.

That's a matter of taste, I think Fossil Fighters look quite alright, and even provided they kept the sprites in Battle Mode, nothing was stopping them from creating a pleasant and detailed overworld. I have hopes for a 3DS sequel. THEN hardware constraints will no longer be a good enough excuse.

The overworld is one of the things in Pokemon that I don't want to change. The current overworld is practically perfect. The 3DS version would just help perfect the aesthetic with increased screen-real estate and better 3D graphics in the few places that it's actually used in.

post

Just look at XD: Gale of Darkness vs. Black and White.

The top looks bland and uninspiring while the bottom has this great look to it. The sprites just add to the great aesthetic that the Pokemon series has. And as an added bonus, games that use sprites tend not to age as horribly as games that don't.

 

[Foxi4]

You'll be running into memory issues with 649 pokemon 3D models, aminations during battles, let alone a whole region in 3D. Pokemon b/w already uses the 256MB card.

Ever heard of streaming data or loading screens? Those are there for a reason - there are no issues whatsoever in holding a few models in RAM at a time, flushing it before battle screens and loading *whole 14* models with their respective animations (2 for trainers). You would not be running into memory issues at all as you would *never* throughout the entire game have to load more then that.

@soulx

I was about to say "yeah, I like the top one" and then I've read the rest of your post. Let's agree to disagree, from what I'm seeing here, the things you like are exactly the ones I dislike about the issue and vice-versa. With no common ground it doesn't make much sense to discuss it.

Holy mother of... I would be back into Pokemon within a heartbeat if they ever release a game with that kind of visuals - no joke. I'll dress up, break out my wallet, buy a 3DS, buy this game and I will need no water nor bread for sustinence - this game alone will fuel my existence.

They already have some models ready anyways (Pokedex 3D), they can just as well add animations and roll with it.

 

[VMM]

You'll be running into memory issues with 649 pokemon 3D models, aminations during battles, let alone a whole region in 3D. Pokemon b/w already uses the 256MB card.

In 3DS there is no excuse like that. There are games with 8GB memory. That's plenty space to do a pokémon with everything that the console can do. A memory like that can be used on DS games. Making a game with different performances on DS and 3DS, and with a 8GB memory would be the best. When on 3DS it could have widescreen, 3D effects and new graphics. The only excuse Nintendo has is lazyness.

 

[VMM]

Yeah sure, it can be done but it would look like shit.

That's a matter of taste, I think Fossil Fighters look quite alright, and even provided they kept the sprites in Battle Mode, nothing was stopping them from creating a pleasant and detailed overworld. I have hopes for a 3DS sequel. THEN hardware constraints will no longer be a good enough excuse.

The overworld is one of the things in Pokemon that I don't want to change. The current overworld is practically perfect. The 3DS version would just help perfect the aesthetic with increased screen-real estate and better 3D graphics in the few places that it's actually used in.

post

Just look at XD: Gale of Darkness vs. Black and White.

The top looks bland and uninspiring while the bottom has this great look to it. The sprites just add to the great aesthetic that the Pokemon series has. And as an added bonus, games that use sprites tend not to age as horribly as games that don't.

For me, the Gale of Darkness image shows what pokémon will become, sooner or later, i guess later, but in a handheld that focus on 3D effects, it would be pretty strange,to have a pokémon with 2D sprites. Don't you agree?

 

[heartgold]

You'll be running into memory issues with 649 pokemon 3D models, aminations during battles, let alone a whole region in 3D. Pokemon b/w already uses the 256MB card.

Ever heard of streaming data or loading screens? Those are there for a reason - there are no issues whatsoever in holding a few models in RAM at a time, flushing it before battle screens and loading *whole 14* models with their respective animations (2 for trainers). You would not be running into memory issues at all as you would *never* throughout the entire game have to load more then that.

@[member='soulx']

I was about to say "yeah, I like the top one" and then I've read the rest of your post. Let's agree to disagree, from what I'm seeing here, the things you like are exactly the ones I dislike about the issue and vice-versa. With no common ground it doesn't make much sense to discuss it.

Haha you didn't follow me, the actual capacity of the games. 1GB memory cards was expensive during those times and gamefreak is a tight company.

 

[Foxi4]

You'll be running into memory issues with 649 pokemon 3D models, aminations during battles, let alone a whole region in 3D. Pokemon b/w already uses the 256MB card.

Ever heard of streaming data or loading screens? Those are there for a reason - there are no issues whatsoever in holding a few models in RAM at a time, flushing it before battle screens and loading *whole 14* models with their respective animations (2 for trainers). You would not be running into memory issues at all as you would *never* throughout the entire game have to load more then that.

@[member='soulx']

I was about to say "yeah, I like the top one" and then I've read the rest of your post. Let's agree to disagree, from what I'm seeing here, the things you like are exactly the ones I dislike about the issue and vice-versa. With no common ground it doesn't make much sense to discuss it.

Haha you didn't follow me, the actual capacity of the games. 1GB memory cards was expensive during those times and gamefreak is a tight company.

Gamefreak is a Nintendo subsidiary, Nintendo *made* the system, there are no technical or financial constraints for them when it comes to the size of cartridges. If you're trying to convey that point that a 256Mb (1GB) cartridge is not enough to store this many models then I'm sorry to disappoint but that is not true. I will go a mile further - most of the time huge spritesheets actually takes *more* space then models, textures and animation files. Textures are inheritently smaller then spritesheets, animation files weigh nothing and models are just light-weight collections of polygons of which there wouldn't be much anyways due to the fact that the DS wasn't really all that beefy. If it was that hard, we wouldn't see nearly as many 3D games on the DS. Sorry, but I'm just not buying this argument, at all.

 

[heartgold]

You are probably right, there are a lot of 3D games on the DS that don't consume a lot of space.

 

[Foxi4]

You are probably right, there are a lot of 3D games on the DS that don't consume a lot of space.

Don't get me wrong - it'd be incredibly, incredibly hard to make a *good* and *3D* Pokemon game - I realize that. It'd take massive ammounts of effort to pull this off correctly without alienating the fans, but who else to expect such effort from then Nintendo's "Second Party" developers?

Pokemon is a leading Nintendo brand - it sells better then cure for cancer. If those guys "need something", they get it, no questions asked, simply because a huge slice of the pie that is Nintendo Profits is labeled "Pokemon". I have a firm belief that even if it took a good few years, the end result would be mind-blowing. Look at Camelot and their Golden Sun. We were waiting for a new Golden Sun game since the DS was launched and we recieved one close to the end of DS's life-cycle. Was it worth the wait? Disputable. Was the game impressive though? Hell, it was.

They can afford to experiment and they can afford to take time, and all I'm expecting them to do is to push the hardware they are working on to the very limit, not because I'm picky but because the franchise is dear to me.

 

[Deleted_171835]

The overworld is one of the things in Pokemon that I don't want to change. The current overworld is practically perfect. The 3DS version would just help perfect the aesthetic with increased screen-real estate and better 3D graphics in the few places that it's actually used in.

post

Just look at XD: Gale of Darkness vs. Black and White.
http://i.imgur.com/jmBen.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LZxTo.jpg

The top looks bland and uninspiring while the bottom has this great look to it. The sprites just add to the great aesthetic that the Pokemon series has. And as an added bonus, games that use sprites tend not to age as horribly as games that don't.

For me, the Gale of Darkness image shows what pokémon will become, sooner or later, i guess later, but in a handheld that focus on 3D effects, it would be pretty strange,to have a pokémon with 2D sprites. Don't you agree?

It would be just as weird as having a game like Mario and Luigi: Bowsers Inside Story or Mighty Milky Way on a system capable of 3D graphics. Sprites are a design-choice, not the natural evolution of a game.

 

[Foxi4]

It would be just as weird as having a game like Mario and Luigi: Bowsers Inside Story or Mighty Milky Way on a system capable of 3D graphics. Sprites are a design-choice, not the natural evolution of a game.

I agree, however with the same breath I utter "64, Sunshine, Mario Land 3D".

There is place for both 2D and 3D games on the market, so let's not demonize 3D ones before we actually try out a full-fledged 3D Pokemon adventure. And no, Pokemon XD was a step towards that goal, but not "it" yet - it was still a side-story and had different mechanics then the main games.

 

[Deleted_171835]

It would be just as weird as having a game like Mario and Luigi: Bowsers Inside Story or Mighty Milky Way on a system capable of 3D graphics. Sprites are a design-choice, not the natural evolution of a game.

I agree, however with the same breath I utter "64, Sunshine, Mario Land 3D".

There is place for both 2D and 3D games on the market, so let's not demonize 3D ones before we actually try out a full-fledged 3D Pokemon adventure. And no, Pokemon XD was a step towards that goal, but not "it" yet - it was still a side-story and had different mechanics then the main games.

Honestly I would prefer that the full-3D games stay on the consoles. I would rather have awesome HD battles with Charizard on my Wii U and a full-featured adventure on the 3DS (with sprites).

 

[Foxi4]

It would be just as weird as having a game like Mario and Luigi: Bowsers Inside Story or Mighty Milky Way on a system capable of 3D graphics. Sprites are a design-choice, not the natural evolution of a game.

I agree, however with the same breath I utter "64, Sunshine, Mario Land 3D".

There is place for both 2D and 3D games on the market, so let's not demonize 3D ones before we actually try out a full-fledged 3D Pokemon adventure. And no, Pokemon XD was a step towards that goal, but not "it" yet - it was still a side-story and had different mechanics then the main games.

Honestly I would prefer that the full-3D games stay on the consoles. I would rather have awesome HD battles with Charizard on my Wii U and a full-featured adventure on the 3DS (with sprites).

My point wasn't even "putting them on the handheld" but "making them in the first place", why is the handheld user allowed to play full-fledged games (based on sprites, but that's besides the point) while the home console user is forced to play the spunk of Stadium and such (what I mean is that the games are devoid of the RPG aspect or an actual fun "plot")?

Why not create two very distinct adventures, one in full, impressive 3D and one in the aged but still working isometric style and allow some cool connectivity bonuses? Don't you think that would not only be great, but also would enhance sales of the home console, the handheld and both versions?

 

[DJPlace]

why are you guys bitching about this been on the nds it's good for us pirated and hackers so we can pokesav the hell out of it!! i bet the 6th gen is going be on 3ds!!

also

 

[dragon574444]

Why develop a pokemon game for a dieing system? The 3DS could really use a killer app like this.