Has the Nintendo 3DS been hacked?

MegaBassBX

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> Gamefaqs
> Reliable resource about hacking

Oh c'mon... You just know you're knocking on the wrong door... :P

What makes you think that a usermode exploit will allow you any kind of system-level access for disabling the region lock or playing 3DS dumps?


I didn't say, so...... yellow8 said that.
 

Foxi4

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I didn't say, so...... yellow8 said that.
Source or didn't happen in the history of ever. Show me where yellows8 says that this will allow for disabling the region lock, which is a system feature over which the binary stored on the cartridge has no control. Yellows8 himself stated that only the code used within the binary can be used (ROP programming), and as such, nobody can even touch the region lock.
 

MegaBassBX

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Source or didn't happen in the history of ever. Show me where yellows8 says that this will allow for disabling the region lock, which is a system feature over which the binary stored on the cartridge has no control. Yellows8 himself stated that only the code used within the binary can be used (ROP programming), and as such, nobody can even touch the region lock.


Will he didn't actually say that I deduced it.
 

Foxi4

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Will he didn't actually say that I deduced it.
Well then I'm correcting you - it's not possible without kernel access, which is not desirable for the hackers in question as it would also allow ROM loading which is something they're againts. :P

More about ROP Programming for those interested can be found here. The tl;dr version of it is "the original binary asks for a set of privileges, the system gives the binary said privileges, then the hacked save comes into play, uses a bootloader to load entirely custom code which inherits the previously-assigned privileges" - with that definition in mind, the broader the exploited game is the more you can do.

Unfortunately, games themselves do not control the region lock mechanism - the system does. As such, you would have to exploit a system tile, which has access to all privileges, to disable it. With this setup, you cannot - you can only do what the game originally would anyways.
 

McHaggis

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wait let me try to make up a story oh here it is : http://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/3DS_exploits

look at the last paragraph : Tips and info

read carefully!
Please tell me I'm right because everybody including me you (FOXi4) want to here it.:unsure:
Sorry to disappoint you. You should probably read the last paragraph as carefully as you asked me to :-)

Well then I'm correcting you - it's not possible without kernel access, which is not desirable for the hackers in question as it would also allow ROM loading which is something they're againts. :P

More about ROP Programming for those interested can be found here. The tl;dr version of it is "the original binary asks for a set of privileges, the system gives the binary said privileges, then the hacked save comes into play, uses a bootloader to load entirely custom code which inherits the previously-assigned privileges" - with that definition in mind, the broader the exploited game is the more you can do.
Wasn't the DSi also like this? IIRC, that's why homebrew couldn't access the SD card, because the exploited games never needed SD read/write permissions.
 

Foxi4

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Wasn't the DSi also like this? IIRC, that's why homebrew couldn't access the SD card, because the exploited games never needed SD read/write permissions.
It was exactly like it until very late revisions of the hack which were later abandoned since Nintendo removed the capacity for key extraction that didn't entail hardware modifications. It's still do-able, it's just incredibly inconvenient.
 

McHaggis

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It was exactly like it until very late revisions of the hack which were later abandoned since Nintendo removed the capacity for key extraction that didn't entail hardware modifications. It's still do-able, it's just incredibly inconvenient.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. I didn't have a DSi, but I remember watching the hacking progress with my hand on my wallet.
 

Foxi4

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Ah, thanks for clarifying. I didn't have a DSi, but I remember watching the hacking progress with my hand on my wallet.
Well, for all intents and purposes, you couldn't use the WiFi or the camera till the very end, but you could use some degree of SD access (hence the SD-based homebrew loaders that were released). I was out of the DSi Homebrew loop since I didn't have a DSi at the time, but it never amounted to anything spectacular. Before the teams could properly map the system, the exploits were patched, and since it didn't have a lot of promise to begin with, it was abandoned.
 
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SifJar

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Well, for all intents and purposes, you couldn't use the WiFi or the camera till the very end, but you could use some degree of SD access (hence the SD-based homebrew loaders that were released). I was out of the DSi Homebrew loop since I didn't have a DSi at the time, but it never amounted to anything spectacular. Before the teams could properly map the system, the exploits were patched, and since it didn't have a lot of promise to begin with, it was abandoned.
Was camera access ever achieved on the DSi? I don't remember hearing about that happening (although I never had a DSi, I tried to keep up with hacking efforts out of vague interest)
 

Foxi4

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Was camera access ever achieved on the DSi? I don't remember hearing about that happening (although I never had a DSi, I tried to keep up with hacking efforts out of vague interest)
To achieve camera access, they'd have to hack a game that already had it OR perform some more in-depth analysis of the system and create something along the lines of a homebrew channel with "kernel access". All the DSi exploits were based on games, and as such, only had the capabilities of the exploited game. As such, the camera was never mapped and the WiFi didn't work on the Cyclo exploit, but could very well work on the DSiWare exploits provided the game used WiFi at any point... but they never got that far with it.
 

Maxternal

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As for the region lock, at least on the Wii, I don't think Gecko OS actually needed kernel access to break the region lock. All it needed to do was run the game. In that case it's the system menu that checks the region and then refuses to run the game. Once a game's running (with only a couple minor exceptions) the game itself doesn't care what region of system it's running on. In this case, all a region unlocker 3DS app would need is a command to run the currently inserted game. Such an app would have no reason to be picky about the region.

As for camera access, I know that neimod found the key for the 3DS camera. Since I assume DSi software running on a 3DS ends up using the same camara, it just might be the same key. Any developer lucky enough to own a hacked DSi could always do the test. (actually, stupidly crazy idea but if the camara is only inaccessible because of an access key, maybe it's even accessible with said key from DS homebrew ... doubt it though.)
 

Foxi4

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As for the region lock, at least on the Wii, I don't think Gecko OS actually needed kernel access to break the region lock. All it needed to do was run the game. In that case it's the system menu that checks the region and then refuses to run the game. Once a game's running (with only a couple minor exceptions) the game itself doesn't care what region of system it's running on. In this case, all a region unlocker 3DS app would need is a command to run the currently inserted game. Such an app would have no reason to be picky about the region.
On the Wii, perhaps, we'll see how it looks here. Technically, you're already post the region checking stage, but to create a "Region Unlocker", you'd have to devise a way of removing the cart without the system menu resetting (to swap carts). I sincerely doubt that region unlocking would be possible with the current setup.
 

gifi4

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The temp never ceases to amaze me, people actually seem to be suprised piracy was almost immediatly mentioned.
GBAtemp is full of pirates, as well as people who pay for all their games.
Hell, I'm a pirate but as long as getting rid of the region lock remains a possibility then I don't care about piracy. I'll be able to get all the games I want, cheap, and with fast and cheap shipping.
Maybe it gets region locked to not screw up the economy...
 

Maxternal

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Technically, you're already post the region checking stage
Oh yeah, I forgot for a moment that this is supposedly an exploit in a retail game and not in the 3DS's system software.

I think I just thought that when he said both exploits could easily be patched in a system menu update that he was referring to some exploit in the system menu itself (although the user mode part of it.)

Anyway, yeah, I get your point.
Maybe it gets region locked to not screw up the economy...
Probably true, actually.
 

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