Just so everyone knows, the Debate Club will be going on hiatus for one week due to Halloween (everyone have a happy and safe one!). I will leave this thread open for continued discussion for an extra week to compensate
Women do have issues, absolutely. There are many arabian countries where the woman is seen as an inferior creature, in places like rural India there is a rape culture, and so on.
But I can't take feminism seriously when they go the extra mile to talk about a non-existant wage gap, when they bitch about women not taking science courses or when someone smiled at them, therefore it's rape. All this thanks to "male oppression".
Do you want to talk about statistics of LGBT people? Sure. Did you know that lesbian couples are more likely to have violent partners? Crazy, right? Where is the male oppression there?
Or maybe how, when someone calls the police on a couple fighting, regardless of who called, for the woman is enough to say "he assaulted me" to put him in jail? Unless he has video evidence?
Honestly, sexualizing female characters is WAY easier to do than to sexualize a male character. I DARE YOU to try and sexualize a male character without making it look hilarious.
Isn't that essentially what all game do? To both male and female characters? Or do you think the majority walk around with an intense amount of steroids, that requires cardboard cover to protect from a bullet allergy and difficulty using spoons?Just to throw in my two cents (and concur with Dragonconqer's comment), the depiction of women in video games is almost always very heavily unrealistic and not merely in the fashion that games over-represent stereotypes in specific video games that are meant to be caricatures in general (GTA) but also in just how many games present those caricatures in the first place.
And I'd extend an olive branch in saying male treatment isn't any less sexist. In a nearly identical vein. Larger murder, overly unrealistic body expectations, elements of male expendability.And to me, that's one major reason this thread has mostly gone off-track to the original question. When it asks "Do you believe video game marketing disproportionately favors males?", it misses the point that a lot of the sexist views of women are often targeted towards women and often enough made BY women. That doesn't in some fashion make it somehow "okay" in a moral/egalitarian sense but then again that's not even the question.
82% this year don't. And that number has been getting smaller and smaller.It's how much this has a net effect of failing to realistic favor females in providing them enough games to play in comparison to males. And to that end, no matter how "paranoid" you want to call feminists, if a large percentage of the population IS feminist and games aren't being made for them, then "Yes; and game companies are missing a great opportunity to gain consumers".
Well if a company ends up selling a slanted base towards ketchup and don't sell their horseradish product as much (or at all), and can stay afloat with profit from selling ketchup, there's no reason to further expand horseradish unless they can project a reason to make a further profit, after market, product, and production research; then, after assessing the start up costs, risks and can actually better attempt to fill that market niche, there's no reason they should, nor do they have any obligation to do so.I mean, seriously, if we turned this whole thread into a question of "Do condiment makers favor ketchup users?" and said "Horseradish users are paranoid", that'd just be silly. But then it'd be silly if we acknowledged that there was a large customer base for horseradish users and the games weren't being made for them. The argument that horseradish users just want to make a lot of noise and even if there were a lot of makers horseradish wouldn't be bought? I don't buy it. The free market isn't some infallible system where entrepreneurs see a wide open niche and always fill it.
I tend to agree with this.All sorts of things can interfere with it from an audience which lacks the money to actually by the product to the risk involved in actually trying to make a product and sell it (see traffic jams in cities and how public transport has to be government funded/ran because of said issues of money and logistics of trying to build out more roads/subways/whatever; see also things like jet packs and flying cars which invoke way too much cost and risk to be practical no matter how much demand there is for them as demand in the free market doesn't just mean want but also a means to actual front the resources to pay for something).
PS - Having said all the above, whether you're a "gamer" or not and whether you play "AAA" titles or not, there still are a lot of mobile games, puzzle, hidden object, etc games that are actually rather popular with women. There's no reason to waste AAA level money and in the popular press/popular sentiment those people might not count, there might be some regard it's a niche market, etc. But then DOOM is actually a niche market too. The only reason people at large put any regard behind it isn't the technology, the fun, etc but that id developers were able to buy Ferraris with DOOM's success. By that standard, Candy Crush is a success and why people at large can and do consider it worth consideration. This is, after all, a discuss driven more than anything by money.
Considering what women DO actually have to go through, having plane policy, kindergarten employment policy, primary school policy, basically ANYTHING to do with kids in employment or in the home, domestic abuse policy and more; This whole image problem of men being predatory and toxic to the point where instead of targeting the population (ie; psychopaths and sociopaths) being the perpetrator (and repeat perpetrators at that; And yes, same applies to women predators), you end up with stuff like the University of Warwick having compulsory consent classes.You can't be serious. Are you complaining about being called a rapist or whatever?
Do you genuinely think that being called out on the actions of men as a collective (not every man) is worse than the shit women go through?
All black people commit majority of crime, now I'm not saying all are poison, but maybe (insert massively exaggerated statistic here) percent. Would you stick your hand in and have some? Probs not- FLAWLESS LOGICListen buddy if I punched someone in the face I wouldn't complain that my fist hurts. Just no.
I read this comparison once. It was something along the lines of "Imagine a jar with 100 candies. Around 20 of them are poisoned. Not all of them, just 20 or so. Would you stick your hand in and have some?" Probably not, yeah? Concept applies with gender inequality. It's not that all men perpetuate sexism. Not even most men. But enough men. Enough for it to be a serious problem.
I respectfully disagree. I have yet to see a third wave feminist issue that isn't a giant misconception, or outright lazy in it's statistics or execution.Women aren't the only victims of sexism but the issue is largely not in their favour. It's absolutely true that women can (and do) rape too, and it's absolutely true that it's absolute bull*** that a lot of places don't prosecute women for doing it. I'm with you on that.
Is kinda cute though.That statistic is useless though because it's not contextual: It's dependent on the size of the population of America (1 every 37.8 seconds out of a population of say, 4,000,000 for example, isn't aaaall that much.) Secondly it doesn't say that the perpetrator of domestic abuse is a woman (LGBTQ+ people exist)
If anything, it's more like "men > women, liek, oh em gee, women have like, so much wurst, you big strong men are so powerful *swoon*" but let's not split hairs. I'm happy to sit down and listen, but just the same, I'm going to question everything I've heard.EDIT: Seriously though I'm not trying to say that women > men end of. I'm a guy myself but I just think that when women have issues to talk about, it's cool to sit the heck down and listen. Feminism is just courtesy, not political radicalism.
What's wrong with being offended? >_> like really, you're offended. So what? Should I go out and say "Freedom of speech is not a get out of jail for free card for making me laugh/cry/feel ANYTHING I didn't want to"?Corporations have a lot of power and influence over society and "freedom of speech" or whatever is not a get-out-of-jail-for-free card for being offensive imho
It's actually really easy not to be sexist; shocking how many people fail at it
Aww, but that's so sexist of you to assume~if you want to cite statistics, cite the fucking statistic please.
people oppress. i seriously doubt that there's more violent humans among females than among males, meaning there's a ridiculously high chance whatever statistic you pulled that tidbit from reeks of bad study design from miles away.
Since I gave you the courtesy of sources, would you be willing to name me a few?just because xth generation feminism in america has degraded to nonsense doesn't automatically mean that xth generation gender discrimination isnt a thing anymore though. the sad part being that there'd still be more than enough issues a serious feminism could tackle. few of it is specific male oppression. but a lot of it is simply institutionalized leftovers of the times when it was still a thing. you put a new coat of color on a rusty bike, the think will still be rotten below the surface.
I suppose firstly, you'd be happy to know that young women (between 18 and 30) are now out earning their male counter parts.yes, the wage gap is the result of men being more likely to be in full time employment. but why is man more likely to be fulltime employee? because women are still more likely to be pressured to be the housekeeper in a family, to take care of children in a family, to put a career on hold for that and never be able to catch up afterwards. because there's still very much a bias in the way a career man and a career woman are perceived by society. one is seen as positive, the other as negative. and as social creatures, that does have a tremendous effect on the way we live our life.
While we're at it I can't wait for them to stop arresting males first and abandon the feminist instituted duluth model for handling domestic .and yes, with gender bias came the occassional positive for females, no doubt.
the way that we as a society still have a problem to understand females as anything but victims, to have such a hard time to imagine women raping children and stuff like that. but we're also working on that. in recent decades, more and more women have been fined or put to jail for violence and abuse. and once men become more comfortable with actually calling in being physically or sexually abused by their female partners, these statistics will continue to even out.
Uhh. I'm female.thats the way you as a male perceive it.
Checked, still femalebecause you, as well as most other males,
Apologies though, that movie doesn't really interest me. Still female though Probs shouldn't assume :/ but then, what does gender matter at all to discussion?are uncomfortable with the thought of controlling magic mike fighting the forces of evil, you call it hilarious.
Try; justified as "not the same" or "not actually harmful sexualization" or any myriad of excuses.its way easier to please a male audience with a sexualized female character (the opposite is true as well, though admittedly, sexualized males for female audience tend to be a bit more subtle than sexualized females for male audiences=
Sounds like an entertaining read, link me some pls.being objective though, sexualized heroines are nothing but hilarious and i can guarantee you, hilarious is probably the word of choice when you have women describe the sexy female hero characters of our generations. going to battle wearing basically a swimsuit. the mightiest heroine carries around giant jugs and makes no attempt to at least wear something to give them enough stability to not be in the way at every single second of the adventure. of course, she also has long, beautifully flowing hair, that no one ever grabs and uses against her too.
instead of using her swords to fight tactically and clever, she makes a point to stretch her body into unnecessary poses, opening herself widely to attacks, just to make sure you as the player notice that she could just jump into a hustle photo shot and do a good job.
oh and of course, despite barely being 110 pounds without any discernible muscles or anything, her short sword sends 300 pound thiefs flying with every hit. (course, at times, thats true for male heroes as well)
Um is nobody else attracted to the man from doom? He could like...rip me in half- in a good waytry and sexualize a male character without making it look hilarious.
All black people commit majority of crime, now I'm not saying all are poison, but maybe (insert massively exaggerated statistic here) percent. Would you stick your hand in and have some? Probs not- FLAWLESS LOGIC
Now insert that with any other demographic. Sounds wrong right? Bigoted? Presumptuous?
For the record, I wasn't serious; was basically going off a stereotype as a means of hyperbole. Basically a stereotype hyperbole countered with another stereotype hyperbole. Intent was to show how absurd the line of thinking is.Not the majority actually, studies showed that only a 15% of the total people in your country is actually legitimate black, most of the crimes are done by people from White race, hell, some studies proved that a "White" person is more able to betray and shoot everyone on their way that a black person, not saying that the latter can't, but is more probable to do so.
https://gadflyonthewallblog.wordpress.com/2015/06/19/why-are-black-people-so-nonviolent/
The charts say that in the crime reports, while Black People has it big shares of crimes, it didn't mention (that clear at least) that people from the other race, were also sharing a big part, and not only that, they were more probable to attack people from the same race and black people, so in conclusion, there isn't a "massively exaggerated statistic here" since if that were the case, both races have that, in a way or another, but remember that White people were killing a lot even before Black People were introduced.
I know this is kinda off-topic, but i just wanted to make it clear, while i'm not living nor i don't know a lot about your country, since you know, i was never there, i'm from fuckin Sri Lanka, with brown skin instead of black or white, so, i'm practically in the most neutral position possible, but if you're gonna say something, at least say it with some books or pages as references when it comes to anything you say.
Not the majority actually, studies showed that only a 15% of the total people in your country is actually legitimate black, most of the crimes are done by people from White race
Fantastic.legitimate black
Fantastic.
Here's some other interesting articles on race and crime with a somewhat different viewpoint :
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime/19439
http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/
I myself wouldn't pin the statistics on race, but poverty - and unfortunately poverty and violence tend to be cyclic.
Exactly, for example- Barack Obama is a great African American man (obviously) but he never exactly spent time inside a public school as a child.It also depends on how a person is raised.
Bingo, and impoverished Americans have this really bad habit of rampant anti-intellectualism despite our 'no child left behind' educational systembut poverty
Meh, I'm on hiatus, the thread can go anywhere it wants this week as long as its actually discussion and not shitposting (and I can easily see how it transitioned from one subject to the next). I would rather it stay on videogames for the sake of the topic but for this week I'm not too concerned about itedit: wait what was this thread about??
I would agree with you, but female gamers are definitely on the rise and game devs continue to model their female characters in more and more unrealistic ways to attract male gamers, which can be both off-putting to the female demographic they're ignoring and mildly dangerous to people (both male and female) who think that those body types are "ideal."The multiplayer behavior isn't the games problem though, its the people playing. Pretty much everyone I know doesn't give a shit if the other player is a male or female, they just play the game. Dipshits are everywhere, you just have to deal with them.