[Discussion] Your views on religion.

[Deleted User]

Catholics and Scientologists

How are catholics on the same level of scientologists?

but even though to alot of ppl i sound like a atheist because im constantly talking down about religion when its brought up im actually religious
but my religion is extremely small (only 6 followers of it) and its very depressing if you actually think about our beliefs

Mind I ask, what is this religion?

 

[brickmii82]

Love, or indeed familial obligation overriding some aspect of survival instinct, seems like it can be explained evolutionarily (grandmother effect being a good jumping off point). Similarly love/sex drive would appear to have basic evolutionary explanations (food is rare and hard to come by.

Also to be a pedant. Sentience, sapience or consciousness? Consciousness is arguably the lowest tier on the rung. Birds are conscious in the eyes of most and that would mean if consciousness is your baseline we have to consider what brood parasites might be.


A valid question, or at least part of the thing I contemplated with definitions earlier.

That said are some of those denominations?
Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witness colour way outside the lines, have whole new books and do more besides.
Most of the rest of those have some serious differences but are bound by many of the same concepts. If the above two are just denominations does that also mean Islam is one as the bible is considered a holy book within it and Jesus a prophet.

As far as love, why do we often witness creatures including ourselves, giving up mentioned food while the belly is empty? There is no guarantee more will be found. Yet we/they will give it to unrelated creatures in spite of the lack of reason to.

For consciousness, in my eyes there really isn’t a question about the universe(s) being God. The question becomes, is it conscious and on what level? I believe it is and it’s on a higher plane than humanly fathomable.

 

[Tigran]

satanism is actually a pretty cool religion
unless your talking about anti god satanism

I just find it interesting how much "Anti-god Satan looks a lot like Pan.. and other gods of nature and good."

 

[Deleted User]

How are catholics on the same level of scientologists?


Mind I ask, what is this religion?

Catholicism just makes me cringe
and Scientology is just weird

and my religion is K-ism
i doubt you will find anything on it since it was a tiny local thing

 

[Deleted User]

Well.. thats one of the amusing things is, for christians, according to the bible, there should be no churches, no preaching to others. And this comes from the bible directly.

Matthew 6:5 ""And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."

Matthew 6:6 "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Maybe this is saying you need to have a personal relationship with God? Just a thought. If I go into my room every night to pray, does that mean I should keep that to myself and none else in the world should be able to pray alone? I can tell you there is a different feeling when praying in a public setting versus one on one with God.

 

[Tigran]

Maybe this is saying you need to have a personal relationship with God? Just a thought. If I go into my room every night to pray, does that mean I should keep that to myself and none else in the world should be able to pray alone? I can tell you there is a different feeling when praying in a public setting versus one on one with God.

While I don't think it honestly means "Pray by yourself all the time." it -is- in direct opposition to the groups who pray loudly in restraints or go to.. well... church especially megachurches.

I seriously doubt it's talking about a family prayer or lowering your head before a meal. But it basically means don't preach to people.. in every sense of the world there.

 

[qqq1]

So, how did you come to that conclusion? (a genuine question)

I had been a Christian and gone to church when I was younger just because I thought that's what you were supposed to do. Even then I didn't believe any of the stuff they were telling me. I got the Satanic bible thinking it would be some cool evil stuff to read about and found out it reflected me and my views perfectly. It might not have been the fun read I was looking for but it certainly helped me discover myself.

satanism is actually a pretty cool religion
unless your talking about anti god satanism

The worshiping of Satan from the Christian mythology is actually just Christianity. Only a Christian believes in a real Satan to be able to worship him.

 

[Deleted User]

Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witness colour way outside the lines, have whole new books and do more besides.
Most of the rest of those have some serious differences but are bound by many of the same concepts. If the above two are just denominations does that also mean Islam is one as the bible is considered a holy book within it and Jesus a prophet.

Being a Latter Day Saint myself, I can assure you we are Christians. I cannot speak for Jehovah's Witnesses, however.
Christians believe that Christ was the literal son of God. That he was conceived in the body of a virgin by the holy spirit. That is different than being a prophet. That means that Islam and Judaisim are not subsets of Christianity. In fact, Judaism is separate from Islam because Islam believes that Ishmael is supposed to be the birthright child and trace their lineage through him, while Judaism traces it through Issac (who according to the Torah/Old Testament is the birthright child). Christianity is a branch of Judaism because Christ was a Jew, as well as his original followers.

EDIT: A better explanation is that Christ's disciples believe that he is the Messiah. The one that was prophesied to come. So, by that logic, Christianity is just Judaism with one modified doctrine.

 

[Deleted User]

Only a Christian believes in a real Satan to be able to worship him.

*visibly shaking with confusion*
theres more forms of satanism that dont even involve satan though

 

[Kioku]

I'm indifferent. I can't say I follow a specific religion but I also can't say I'm atheist. There are ideologies from most, if not all religions that I find fascinating and loosely follow. I will say that I can't stand the division caused by the various religious followings. Catholicism.. Christianity.. Hinduism... Buddhism (can this really be called a religion?)... They share some similar concepts, but all focus on the differences.

 

[qqq1]

*visibly shaking with confusion*
theres more forms of satanism that dont even involve satan though

There is Satanism as founded by Lavey, and there are Christians who worship the Christian devil. Yes, there are other groups *cough cough Satanic Temple cough* that throw out a bunch of stupid claims and don't really represent anything but they are not Satanism.

 

[Deleted User]

Hinduism... Buddhism (can this really be called a religion?)..

Well, Buddha was a Hindu, and Buddhism and Hinduism share very similar beliefs about afterlife. Buddhism is an atheistic religion.

 

[RustInPeace]

Quoting Ricky Gervais, making my response simple...

"Thanks to God for making me an atheist."

 

[FAST6191]

Being a Latter Day Saint myself, I can assure you we are Christians. I cannot speak for Jehovah's Witnesses, however.
Christians believe that Christ was the literal son of God. That he was conceived in the body of a virgin by the holy spirit. That is different than being a prophet. That means that Islam and Judaisim are not subsets of Christianity. In fact, Judaism is separate from Islam because Islam believes that Ishmael is supposed to be the birthright child and trace their lineage through him, while Judaism traces it through Issac (who according to the Torah/Old Testament is the birthright child). Christianity is a branch of Judaism because Christ was a Jew, as well as his original followers.

I have read the LDS books, some of the other spinoffs as well, and find myself generally aware of proceedings there* (going back a fair while various family were members, some still are). Does not function like any of the other setups I have seen -- Roman Catholicism and the various flavours of Protestantism may have some fundamental disagreements (transubstantiation is always a good time there) but to the casual outside observer** would appear broadly similar (the biggest differences you will get reported back would be in terms of musical style favoured) in terms of local structure. I doubt anybody would say the same about LDS and the related movements. Spin it another way a Catholic could wander into a Anglican service and probably follow along well enough, do it for a LDS one and at best it is one of those "preacher is relating something to the modern world moments" (though given the phrasing maybe going through old papal edicts or something). I can do something similar for the first part for Islam between the major sects save for modern Sufism to relate them together.
I know LDS like to say they Christian and this would probably fall under claim what you want to claim but we may be operating under different definitions, especially if we are discussing the word denomination as was originally started with. Some in the past have claimed I am denying them their religion which is a) hard to do and b) not true from where I sit; have Jesus as a/the fundamental character, the bible (though which translation could get fun) as a holy book, and believe Jesus was a magic righteous dude if you want.

"Christians believe that Christ was the literal son of God. That he was conceived in the body of a virgin by the holy spirit. That is different than being a prophet."
If the former are true then the latter would presumably follow, however I don't know I can get to the former.
Right from the start (or at least living memory of the start of it all) you have the gnostic sects (a bit different to modern takes but went along the lines of "this bible lark, not bad advice, let's run with it"). More modernly you have the literalist vs liberalist either debate or spectrum (or higher than 3 dimensional graph for the really fun stuff) wherein one could conceivably follow a morality from the bible, consider Jesus a very important historical figure (perhaps no different to me studying the writings of Sun Tzu) and creator/leader of the faith, and believe none of the supernatural stuff.

*others reading the formation is taken care of 17.40 or so of the video below (or watch the whole thing as it is good stuff), current setup and practice we can go elsewhere for. If you want to read the extra works then it is online https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng


**someone that might not necessarily know the titles, the difference between a lectern and a pulpit and all the other jazz I got to do as part of high school religious studies but knows enough to compare a book/play/film.

I would not have placed Judaism as a subset, indeed I avoided mentioned it in that for just that reason. It predates it and does not seem to recognise Jesus in any real capacity. From their perspective it could just be someone running around doing a remix, one that got surprisingly popular and even spawned a few remixes of its own.

 

[Deleted User]

*others reading the formation is taken care of 17.40 or so of the video below (or watch the whole thing as it is good stuff), current setup and practice we can go elsewhere for. If you want to read the extra works then it is online https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng

Like all stories, this one is biased. In fact, I laugh at it.
In the Doctrine and Covenants (another book that Mormons study), Joseph describes what was in the lost 116 pages. It was just the Book of Lehi, which contained mostly information regarding Lehi's heritage. God knew that Joseph would lose these pages, and for that reason he had Lehi write them. We do not know all that was on those plates, and Joseph describes (I can't remember the exact verse right now) the most important things to get out of that. Those 116 pages being the basis of an argument is silly, as that was more of a learning experience for Joseph than anything else. There are other times when things were not right in Joseph's home, where there was tension between him and his family. Martin Harris recounts that after this event, Joseph could not translate, and it was only after he repented that he was able to continue the translation.

He also failed to mention the 3 witnesses who were granted the permission to flip through the pages, as well as the 8 witnesses given the permission to view the plates. He also fails to mention the story of Joseph telling one of the twelve apostles (who by the way was extremely fat) that there would be a time when bullets would be flying around him and he would not be hit. This was in Carthage Jail where Joseph was assassinated.

There are a plethora of anti-Mormon arguments on the internet, when boiled down can be thwarted given enough time. However, perhaps the most overwhelming evidence of all can only be found by the person arguing against the church. At the end of the book of Mormon, Moroni invites those who have read the book with honest intent to pray and ask God if the book is true. There is a story of a very, very religious Catholic preacher who found the Book of Mormon while walking down the street in New York. He preceded to read the book and at the end, prayed asking for knowledge of the books trueness. He was overcome by a feeling of warmth and love, and continued to preach using the Book of Mormon as well as the Bible.

Also, if Joseph made up the Book of Mormon, then how would you explain all of the subtle comparisons between its time as well as the time of the Bible? Unless Joseph was a biblical genius at the age of 14, there is no possible way he would have been able make this up.

Of course, the Mormon religion relies on faith, and I am going to be real here, the confirmation of the church is true, but you have to be the one to experience it. After that, it takes a lot of prying to separate you from the Church.

 

[gnmmarechal]

Personally, I find religion not to have a place in a modern society.

 

[MaverickWellington]

relgions should fuckest off and burns. has done none for the humans but cause troubles and prevens sciense. religions is exac as cult and both neds to be outlawes!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître
Catholic priest, proposed the big bang

https://www.csmonitor.com/Technolog...d-the-Church-What-the-history-books-don-t-say
Copernicus. Christian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton
Isaac Newton. Apparently a bit of an oddball kind of Christian but still a religious man nonetheless.

I wish atheists would fuck off with this "religious people contribute nothing to science" bullshit when the backbone of our science -- both laws and theories -- was founded by religious people. Especially when the people critical of said religious people can barely formulate a legible sentence.

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Maybe this is saying you need to have a personal relationship with God? Just a thought. If I go into my room every night to pray, does that mean I should keep that to myself and none else in the world should be able to pray alone? I can tell you there is a different feeling when praying in a public setting versus one on one with God.

I think what it's saying is that those who use the faith to get attention rather than to unite people in faith will be left with what they have, whereas those who maintain that relationship and take the lessons from church with them to home, and maintain that faith will be rewarded. Who knows, it could mean something entirely. Maybe the line was added by some angry translator who hated the pastor by his street. There's been a lot of mucking with the religious texts over the years and it's why it's difficult for me to trust a lot of bible translations, especially when people will throw in words like "homosexual" that didn't exist until a hundred or so years ago yet are quoted like they're infallible.

 

[linuxares]

Oh an intresting thread!
I'm very much against all forms of religion. For me, religion is just a powertool, a tool to brainwash people, a tool to force people out of money.
The lack of hiding behind the claws of "It's gods will" etc. is such a bad excuse for a despicable behaviour from a lot of people.

 

[SnakeOil992]

Useless and sometimes dangerous, but I won't shove atheism down anyone's throat.

 

[astrangeone]

Honestly? I'm more of an atheist than anything else. People who use religion as a means of excluding people just need a kick in the head. That said, some religious people mean no harm, but logically religion is scared of people who are different. And there are extremes in everything.

Christians - mostly harmless, but still require tithing money to the church. No thanks, and they seem to be terrified of any relationship that isn't a man + woman. Also, so many different flavours of Christian and they all claim to being the "right one". Which is it? Sheesh. Also contains the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, which seem to focus on "spreading the word". And contains a few sects that focus on creating new life - the Duggars are a (in)famous example.

Islam - I spent time reading their holy books, and it's less "Old Testament" than any flavour of Christian. It's still another POV on Christian mythology. I really don't get why Islam/Christians are at each other's throats over ideas. It's like new Star Wars fans versus the ones who loved the old Star Wars franchises. It doesn't make a lick of sense - both versions are so similar, and hell, even the Koran has Jesus as a prophet...

Buddist - I only knew of one Buddist growing up, but had a lot of activities in a local buddist temple. They were more welcoming from the start with no leading with religion first. They also didn't seem as fast to try to "spread" their religion/beliefs, but still was okay with other people.

Jewish - There's a huge Orthodox Jew community in my hometown. It's very serious and very solemn. They seem to be insulated from the world and even have their own dress/hat shops in the area. From what I've experienced, these guys don't bother anyone, preferring to solve their own problems in their own ways. They are still okay in my book, but it terrifies me that there could be abuse in the community as well....

Other "many Gods" religions - These include Hindi beliefs and some Chinese beliefs as well. These are more harmless as the main point isn't to convert people, just to try to get the believers to and from day to day activities...

Also, some atheists are horrible people who are constantly in their own bubble as well. What was the saying "If you keep on running into assholes, maybe you are the asshole..."