[Discussion] Your views on religion.

[Deleted User]

And this is the argument that begins the flame war of this thread.
Not that I disagree with it.

pls no i don't want that.

i mean, I know it will happen sooner or later but the thread is still young. let it LIIIIIIVE

 

[dAVID_]

pls no i don't want that.

It's obligatory.

 

[slaphappygamer]

There is a force that is stronger than all of us. We are all bonded through it. You can call the force what you like, but it can not be denied that it exists. The name of this force, for me, is music. Life certainly has a rythum. I see it all the time, not just when your window wipers are in sync with your radio either. I believe the name is not important. Others will fight you to the death to say “no there is only one true name”. We shouldn’t kill over the fact that whatever the name, it’s still a force. May the force be with you.

 

[FAST6191]

History has shown that when the society becomes lax in its religion, thats when society becomes a mess.

That is quite the claim.

Equally might we be living in a time where that does not matter any longer should it have been true?
History has shown that when the society lacks antibiotics, thats when society becomes a host of people suffering bacterial infections.

History has shown that when the society becomes lax in morals, that's when society becomes a mess.
A phrase then is religion is the source of morals in the same way a squirrel is the source of acorns.

“Your question is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things.”-Albert Einstein

I find this to be the most accurate statement in regards to my views on God. While I believe in Christ’s existence, and believe that he certainly was of Godly nature, that’s because of the way he lived and loved. It has nothing to with rewards in heaven or afterlife. If there is an afterlife, I highly doubt we’d remember anything from this one.

He simply asked that mankind love without judgment. Instead, Christians have become some of the most self-righteous, judgmental groups to ever exist.

So for me, I am a pantheistic Christian because I believe the universe(s) are God, and Christ knew humility and how people should treat each other.

A fine quote but the question for me is thousands of years, dozens of translations of works, similes which make no sense any longer, demonstrable corruption in the ranks of those administering the religion and those are all things I can show, understand and replicate. How is it then that the long established religions are not so impossibly warped and with baggage almost unimaginable that I am not better off trying to reach some of my own conclusions? I need not go from scratch either for, if I we are quoting seminal physicists, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." is a thing and I can piece something together from those that wrestled with ideas before me.

 

[Tigran]

Eh I don't really believe in gods, but as VinsCool mentioned, I am intrigued when things like miracles happen.
Just do your own thing.

Miracles happening are simply down the numbers. During infinite time/possibilities/factors, it's bound to happen sooner or later. They say a coin has to land on heads or tales, but in very rare cases, when the situation is right.. it can land on it's side.

 

[WeedZ]

Late to the game, not reading all that. Personal beliefs should be just that, personal. Unfortunately most religions ask their disciples to recruit, save, or govern others. Looking at past social impacts of religions, I think organized religions should be abolished

 

[Deleted User]

Late to the game, not reading all that. Personal beliefs should be just that, personal. Unfortunately most religions ask their disciples to recruit, save, or govern others. Looking at past social impacts of religions, I think organized religions should be abolished

The issue is that people will be so desperate to find somebody that also has their same beliefs that they will actively search for others, in the end resulting in organized religions again.

However, I will say that religions do feel threatened when other religions are arising, to the point where there are execution orders against religions. Luckily, there has only been one legal execution order for a religion in the United States.

 

[FAST6191]

How do you also reconcile one man's miracle is another's unmitigated disaster, and if you play for long enough then everybody gets relative miracles and disasters?

“Scientists have calculated that the chances of something so patently absurd actually existing are millions to one. But magicians have calculated that million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.” ― Terry Pratchett, Mort.

 

[brickmii82]

That is quite the claim.

Equally might we be living in a time where that does not matter any longer should it have been true?
History has shown that when the society lacks antibiotics, thats when society becomes a host of people suffering bacterial infections.

History has shown that when the society becomes lax in morals, that's when society becomes a mess.
A phrase then is religion is the source of morals in the same way a squirrel is the source of acorns.



A fine quote but the question for me is thousands of years, dozens of translations of works, similes which make no sense any longer, demonstrable corruption in the ranks of those administering the religion and those are all things I can show, understand and replicate. How is it then that the long established religions are not so impossibly warped and with baggage almost unimaginable that I am not better off trying to reach some of my own conclusions? I need not go from scratch either for, if I we are quoting seminal physicists, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." is a thing and I can piece something together from those that wrestled with ideas before me.

Bingo. I can’t really stand with the modern Christian Church, and nothing else seems to make sense to me as far as “God” is concerned, other than love and consciousness.

My evidence for love being god, is that it typically defies any natural law because you tend to go against your survival instincts in its interests. Whether for a spouse/lover or for your children, or those you’ve come to love, you’ll often put them above you’re own interests which is the only steadily displayed case of forcibly violating natural laws.

My evidence for the universe(s) being god, is us. We are conscious, we were born of the universe, therefore on some level the universe is conscious.

While the universe is God, it still has its set of rules it follows. One of which being that life can choose, even if only out of necessity. The fish chooses the sea, as it has to live in water. It could theoretically hop out, but it will die. In that fashion people can choose evil, and do evil. But God is not to blame as choice is always there for that which is conscious. The universe(God)will not violate its own laws. We do though. People.

 

[Deleted User]

modern Christian Church,

What defines the modern Christian church? Christianity had many, many denominations. Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witness, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, just to name a few.

 

[WeedZ]

Bingo. I can’t really stand with the modern Christian Church, and nothing else seems to make sense to me as far as “God” is concerned, other than love and consciousness.

My evidence for love being god, is that it typically defies any natural law because you tend to go against your survival instincts in its interests. Whether for a spouse/lover or for your children, or those you’ve come to love, you’ll often put them above you’re own interests which is the only steadily displayed case of forcibly violating natural laws.

My evidence for the universe(s) being god, is us. We are conscious, we were born of the universe, therefore on some level the universe is conscious.

While the universe is God, it still has its set of rules it follows. One of which being that life can choose, even if only out of necessity. The fish chooses the sea, as it has to live in water. It could theoretically hop out, but it will die. In that fashion people can choose evil, and do evil. But God is not to blame as choice is always there for that which is conscious. The universe(God)will not violate its own laws. We do though. People.

You ever looked into the law of one? It's a philosophy that everything in the universe is one and we all share a consciousness on some level. Sounds very familiar to what you describe here, and probably the closest to my personal beliefs.

 

[FAST6191]

Love, or indeed familial obligation overriding some aspect of survival instinct, seems like it can be explained evolutionarily (grandmother effect being a good jumping off point). Similarly love/sex drive would appear to have basic evolutionary explanations (food is rare and hard to come by.

Also to be a pedant. Sentience, sapience or consciousness? Consciousness is arguably the lowest tier on the rung. Birds are conscious in the eyes of most and that would mean if consciousness is your baseline we have to consider what brood parasites might be.

What defines the modern Christian church? Christianity had many, many denominations. Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witness, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, just to name a few.

A valid question, or at least part of the thing I contemplated with definitions earlier.

That said are some of those denominations?
Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witness colour way outside the lines, have whole new books and do more besides.
Most of the rest of those have some serious differences but are bound by many of the same concepts. If the above two are just denominations does that also mean Islam is one as the bible is considered a holy book within it and Jesus a prophet.

 

[Xzi]

IMO society should've moved on from religion as we know it by now. All it causes is tribalism and ignorance when you've got 2000+ year-old documents dictating how people should live in 2018. I'm also of the opinion that religion makes people easier to manipulate and easier to con, it prevents a lot of critical thinking skills from developing. Especially when you're raised from a young age to be part of one religion.

 

[brickmii82]

What defines the modern Christian church? Christianity had many, many denominations. Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witness, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, just to name a few.

Any that organize beyond a grassroots level imo. Christ was a vagabond. He never wanted a home on earth. He claimed his home was Heaven. I personally believe, that he knew that institutions breeded corruption, therefore he preferred to teach at a local level and not beyond. Person to person. Personal relationship between student and teacher.

Then you have many churches that blatantly take his words and ignore them. “He who is without sin cast first stone.” “Who’s face is on the coin? Caesars? Give to Caesar what is Caesars and God what is Gods.”..... which is love. That’s it. “Above all, love the lord thy God, and thy neighbor as thyself.”

How are these reflected in most Christian churches these days?

You ever looked into the law of one? It's a philosophy that everything in the universe is one and we all share a consciousness on some level. Sounds very familiar to what you describe here, and probably the closest to my personal beliefs.

No I haven’t, I will though for sure. It’s just a result of pondering these questions again and again. Faith has to be challenged, otherwise it’s not really faith but bias.

 

[qqq1]

My religion is Satanism. I read the bible when I was about 14 (a while ago now) and found I already was one.

 

[Deleted User]

How are these reflected in most Christian churches these days?

The issue in the Churches is due to them attempting to be appealing to those who want to live in the modern world.

Let's take a look at LGBT really quick. The only two churches I have seen actively open up and be accepting of LGBT are Catholicism and LDS. Both are teaching that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that anything else is sinful. But they don't ridicule. They try to help that person back on the pathway. Both churches do this, but their disciples aren't as good as the church.

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My religion is Satanism. I read the bible when I was about 14 (a while ago now) and found I already was one.

So, how did you come to that conclusion? (a genuine question)

 

[Deleted User]

i think alot of religions are pretty stupid *cough* Catholics and Scientologists *cough cough*
but i also think some stuff like Buddhism is pretty decent
but even though to alot of ppl i sound like a atheist because im constantly talking down about religion when its brought up im actually religious
but my religion is extremely small (only 6 followers of it) and its very depressing if you actually think about our beliefs

 

[Tigran]

Late to the game, not reading all that. Personal beliefs should be just that, personal. Unfortunately most religions ask their disciples to recruit, save, or govern others. Looking at past social impacts of religions, I think organized religions should be abolished

Well.. thats one of the amusing things is, for christians, according to the bible, there should be no churches, no preaching to others. And this comes from the bible directly.

Matthew 6:5 ""And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."

Matthew 6:6 "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

 

[WeedZ]

My religion is Satanism. I read the bible when I was about 14 (a while ago now) and found I already was one.

I absolutely agree with the rules of the earth. As a philosophy, Satanism is very ethical.

 

[Deleted User]

My religion is Satanism. I read the bible when I was about 14 (a while ago now) and found I already was one.

satanism is actually a pretty cool religion
unless your talking about anti god satanism