Poll: did Trump really win the 2020 election?

[Smoker1]

Yeah, there was a Report where someone tried Voting more than once, and he got busted. Plus, it all get tallied in a System, and if there are multiples for 1 Person, it gets Flagged for Review.

 

[x65943]

That's incorrect though, there were like 10-20 confirmed cases of fraud. Mostly Trump supporters too, but not enough to reverse the results no matter who had hit 270 electoral votes.

Go back to my original post where I said IF there had been more mail in ballots not delivered through incompetence or forms thrown out for silly reasons it would help Trump

I mean - if the USPS never delivered thousands of Biden ballots or something

This is the whole point of me saying fraud would have probably helped Trump

 

[WiiHomebrew+Snes]

Threads like these make me wish folks like @NancyDS were still around.

So we could find out the answers to the big questions in life, like can we emulate the 2020 presidential election on wii u?

 

[IncredulousP]

Found the voter fraud.

 

[urherenow]

1) There WAS fraud and glitches. There always are. Numerous ways the numbers are jacked up for both sides, but I won't get into that, because of #2.

2) Biden is going to win. Notice the date I'm posting this, and the fact that I say "going to". Nobody gets any electoral college votes, until their votes are certified. This still hasn't happened. But... No amount of mistakes found will push Trump over the top.

3) This election shows how the electoral college clearly FAILS at the State level. The whole reason for the Electoral College? So that the elections aren't determined entirely by New York and California. WTF about Nevada then? Trump lost it. But he only lost 2 districts. The rest of that entire State, voted TRUMP. Herd mentality is clearly the rule of law here, and the Electoral college was supposed to mitigate that. It wasn't always like this. Many States used to "allocate" electoral votes according to district. Now, there are only 2 States left that do this. If it was the case with all States, Trump would have won the election by a f#$%Ing landslide. Just look at the voting results broken down by district.

Whatever. Trump lost. We will ALL have to deal with it. Glad I actually live in Japan.

 

[Xzi]

Go back to my original post where I said IF there had been more mail in ballots not delivered through incompetence or forms thrown out for silly reasons it would help Trump

I mean - if the USPS never delivered thousands of Biden ballots or something

This is the whole point of me saying fraud would have probably helped Trump

Oh I gotcha. Yeah he's still doing his best to overturn a legitimate and thoroughly-scrutinized election, but I too am surprised that Republicans didn't attempt more acts of blatant sabotage while the polls were still open. Perhaps there truly wasn't a shred of doubt in their minds that Trump was going to win, and that's also the reason they still can't accept the results now. They put themselves in an information bubble and an echo chamber to avoid confronting some harsh realities about themselves and the cult leader they've chosen.

The whole reason for the Electoral College? So that the elections aren't determined entirely by New York and California. WTF about Nevada then? Trump lost it. But he only lost 2 districts. The rest of that entire State, voted TRUMP.

I know this may come as a shock to you, but: sand can't vote. Biden won the places in Nevada where all the people live. Also: Nevada isn't pivotal to Biden's win anyway. He got 2-3 states more than he needed, so it's largely a moot point.

 

[notimp]

1) There WAS fraud and glitches. There always are. Numerous ways the numbers are jacked up for both sides, but I won't get into that, because of #2.

2) Biden is going to win. Notice the date I'm posting this, and the fact that I say "going to". Nobody gets any electoral college votes, until their votes are certified. This still hasn't happened. But... No amount of mistakes found will push Trump over the top.

3) This election shows how the electoral college clearly FAILS at the State level. The whole reason for the Electoral College? So that the elections aren't determined entirely by New York and California. WTF about Nevada then? Trump lost it. But he only lost 2 districts. The rest of that entire State, voted TRUMP. Herd mentality is clearly the rule of law here, and the Electoral college was supposed to mitigate that. It wasn't always like this. Many States used to "allocate" electoral votes according to district. Now, there are only 2 States left that do this. If it was the case with all States, Trump would have won the election by a f#$%Ing landslide. Just look at the voting results broken down by district.

Whatever. Trump lost. We will ALL have to deal with it. Glad I actually live in Japan.

If only districts were the new people... Next step. If only streets could vote... So many streets voted for Trump.

 

[mrgone]

Everything shouldn't have been a surprise.
Trump comes out of the industry
he is accustomed to be the boss and everyone following his orders.
democrycy is not his thing.
just look at his "friends", autocrats and despots.

as someone who has learned latin in school, i know what a dictator originally was:
someone who didn't want the job, but is only released, if he did the job well.

 

[Foxi4]

OK, for Trump Supporters - Please, do enlighten us, as to how someone can cast multiple Votes, or as Giuliani Claims, upward up to 50 potential Votes.

Make it 8000. It's called ballot harvesting - you collect ballots from people who "don't need them" and you "help them" fulfill their patriotic duty.

https://www.latimes.com/california/...l-ballots-for-nonexistent-or-deceased-persons

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...cations-on-behalf-of-homeless-people/2464168/

It's extremely simple if you have good ground game and absentee ballots just happen to be sent out unsolicited, meaning there's a huge surplus of ballots nobody even asked for. You can register homeless people, you can dumpster dive, you can prey on the elderly - there's a bunch of things you can do to collect large quantities of ballots.

These two gentlemen didn't do it quite right - using their own address wasn't a very smart move. Perhaps using a phone book would've been wiser.

 

[mammastuffing]

The US is looking more and more like North Korea to me. Trump is a clown and how he can have ANY supporters just baffles me. It's amazing how fast a nation can descend into decadence.

 

[seany1990]

It's extremely simple.

I wonder who will play you in the inevitable biopic about the homebrew forum moderator who single-handedly exposed the entire democratic party - stolen election scandal

 

[D34DL1N3R]

The whole reason for the Electoral College? So that the elections aren't determined entirely by New York and California.

Sure. Okay. If New York and California were the only two states allowed to vote. But they aren't.

 

[ZeusX]

I wonder who will play you in the inevitable biopic about the homebrew forum moderator who single-handedly exposed the entire democratic party - stolen election scandal

"Extremely simple..."

 

[Foxi4]

I wonder who will play you in the inevitable biopic about the homebrew forum moderator who single-handedly exposed the entire democratic party - stolen election scandal

"Extremely simple..."

I don't know what you two find difficult in walking door to door, or curbside to curbside, collecting personal details of living individuals and registering on their behalf. These two knuckleheads managed to do it 8000 times - they got caught, but for every fraudster who gets caught there are 10 who are smarter than that. If you believe the process is foolproof and all the votes were legitimate, you're the one living in fairy land - there are no elections like that. Election fraud is a question of scale, not whether or not it happens - we know it happens.

 

[Xzi]

Election fraud is a question of scale, not whether or not it happens - we know it happens.

Yes voter fraud does happen, on the scale of about 10-20 cases in every election. OTOH, election fraud can and has done far more damage in the last four years than voter fraud, not to mention that the people in power who commit election fraud are unlikely to receive anything more than a slap on the wrist even if they get caught. Case in point: Lindsey Graham recently made private calls to Georgia officials, demanding that they throw out thousands of legally-cast ballots. Behavior like that from a Senator should get him thrown in prison for life, but instead I'd be surprised if he's even forced into a week's paid vacation.

If there's one thing Republicans are good at, it's holding everybody else to a much higher standard of accountability than they hold themselves to.

 

[Foxi4]

Yes voter fraud does happen, on the scale of about 10-20 cases in every election. OTOH, election fraud can and has done far more damage in the last four years than voter fraud, not to mention that the people in power who commit election fraud are unlikely to receive anything more than a slap on the wrist even if they get caught. Case in point: Lindsey Graham recently made private calls to Georgia officials, demanding that they throw out thousands of legally-cast ballots. Behavior like that from a Senator should get him thrown in prison for life, but instead I'd be surprised if he's even forced into a week's paid vacation.

If there's one thing Republicans are good at, it's holding everybody else to a much higher standard of accountability than they hold themselves to.

Smoker1 asked how it's done en masse and I answered - it's done by canvassing. That's not to say that canvassing should be illegal in and out of itself - I think it's great that local politicians are trying to meet their constituents face to face, or send representatives to do so. Problems arise when those politicians and representatives deploy illegal tactics to deprive the voter of their right to choose, which is what happened in this case, or assume the voter's identity by straight-up filling out the ballot for them. In regards to throwing out ballots, any ballot received after November 3rd should be thrown into the shredder. I am, and I always have been, against extending the deadline. It's Election Day, not Election Week or Election Month. You do it once and then you have to do it every year, this is not a precedent we should be happy about, and I've touched upon it in my earlier post. If the founders could ride on horse and buggy across the wilderness to their nearest voting location, the pandemic shouldn't be considered a legitimate excuse, especially with a robust system of voting by mail that's already in place. If you're late, you're late.

 

[luigirockz]

I'm in the camp there was voter fraud but I don't know if it was enough to swing the election. Even if there was fraud, if you can't prove it then it doesn't matter. I expect Biden to officially win, but he hasn't just yet until the required states certify. Trump has the right to contest just like Gore did , but it probably won't change anything.

 

[Foxi4]

I'm in the camp there was voter fraud but I don't know if it was enough to swing the election. Even if there was fraud, if you can't prove it then it doesn't matter. I expect Biden to officially win, but he hasn't just yet until the required states certify. Trump has the right to contest just like Gore did , but it probably won't change anything.

This is a sensible take on the situation that is in-line with the law of the land.

 

[notimp]

Foxi4 is still half nested in fantasy land.

Part of the 'does it scale?' issue is the insanely big incentive not to resort to a certain kind of model like 'filling out ballots for other people'. The only scheme, I've ever heard of in my lifetime, that did that was requesting mail in ballots in old folks homes, and not relaying them to inmates, then 'voting for them in bulk', which probably was done for 'local elections' - cant quite remember.

If your 'statewide' elections regularely are decided by a 40k and more (like 10x more) vote difference - any scheme that involves 'personal pressure' 'on the individual level' - is devalued.

If the next year, voting difference is 10x more - you'd literally have a scheme going, where one year, you might be competitive, and the next year your entire operation is void.

Hence those models dont make sense. At all.

If you want to manipulate populations on the scale of 50k people, you dont go for individual tactics.

Lets say those net you 5x voting power per person, which means 50k manipulated people/ids, 10k fraudsters, 1000 handlers, 50 coorganizers, ... How would such a scheme stay secret?

Its impossible or at least highly improbable from about 10 angles.

Its NOT 'no, no - its going on, its just a matter of scale or not' - scale prohibits certain methods.

 

[Xzi]

Smoker1 asked how it's done en masse and I answered - it's done by canvassing. That's not to say that canvassing should be illegal in and out of itself - I think it's great that local politicians are trying to meet their constituents face to face, or send representatives to do so. Problems arise when those politicians and representatives deploy illegal tactics to deprive the voter of their right to choose, which is what happened in this case, or assume the voter's identity by straight-up filling out the ballot for them. In regards to throwing out ballots, any ballot received after November 3rd should be thrown into the shredder. I am, and I always have been, against extending the deadline. It's Election Day, not Election Week or Election Month. You do it once and then you have to do it every year, this is not a precedent we should be happy about, and I've touched upon it in my earlier post. If the founders could ride on horse and buggy across the wilderness to their nearest voting location, the pandemic shouldn't be considered a legitimate excuse, especially with a robust system of voting by mail that's already in place. If you're late, you're late.

This can essentially be shortened to, "I want fewer people to vote and/or have access to voting." I've touched on this subject before, and when your party needs to rely on voter suppression tactics to even have an outside shot at winning, that's a bad position to be in. The only chance we might have of saving the Republican party from itself is abolishing the electoral college, so that they can finally come to grips with just how outdated and irrelevant their current platform is and make the necessary adjustments.