Covid-19 vaccine

[elk1007]

Of course, that means they're INFECTED. The vaccine isn't bullet proof. But it sure makes your chances to survive much much higher. Plus if we're lucky. The virus dies before it can get a hold in the host to spread it, because of the vaccines. This is what a vaccine is for.


Sure, but long term effects? Also try telling that to the 1.14M dead people of a virus, that could been contained much better if the Chinese government kept it hidden.


You can restart a business. You can't restart a person that have passed.

China didn't even want to admit there was a COVID virus.
They threated the US with war over the blame for COVID.
How could you believe any Chinese statistics?

I can tell you have never owned a business. No, you cannot just start a business again after it fails. You have to take out loans and invest in operating costs which dissolve upon closure. New York city is a prime example of this; its a ghost town.

 

[linuxares]

A link is not evidence. Please post actual statistics from the abstract. I can't do the research for opposition arguments. You're asking me to dig for proof. Take the time to form an argument.

Since you wanna be spoon fed

 

[linuxares]

China didn't even want to admit there was a COVID virus.
They threated the US with war over the blame for COVID.
How could you believe any Chinese statistics?

I can tell you have never owned a business. No, you cannot just start a business again after it fails. You have to take out loans and invest in operating costs which dissolve upon closure. New York city is a prime example of this; its a ghost town.

I never trust China's numbers. I'm just stating facts from all kind of governments and scientists that say it could been contained if they actually had warned instead of putting the lid on.

Lol, I grew up in two business. My father had one, my mother had a different one.

 

[elk1007]

Since you wanna be spoon fed

Source? This looks like it came from a White House page.

Lol, I grew up in two business. My father had one, my mother had a different one.

Thank you for proving my point. You have never owned a business.

 

[Lacius]

A link is not evidence. Please post actual statistics from the abstract. I can't do the research for opposition arguments. You're asking me to dig for proof. Take the time to form an argument.

The CDC pages include plenty of links to peer reviewed studies showing the vaccines' effectiveness. It's pretty easy to find the research, but I 100% believe you that you're uninterested in "doing the research." It says a lot more about you than you think that you won't even look at the evidence.

 

[linuxares]

Source? This looks like it came from a White House page.

Because it is?
Read their sources. I'm to lazy to read them for you.

 

[Lacius]

Because it is?
Read their sources. I'm to lazy to read them for you.

It looks like @elk1007 argues against medical science by pretending like the evidence doesn't exist.

 

[BitMasterPlus]

You can restart a business. You can't restart a person that have passed.

Please stop using the "think of the children!" type of shield and argument of saving lives as if you and people like you actually care about the health and well being of all people, because from what I've seen, especially those you don't agree with, you don't care about human lives really. You can pretend to and think you do, but beneath it all, deep in your core, you don't.

 

[Lacius]

Please stop using the "think of the children!" type of shield and argument of saving lives as if you and people like you actually care about the health and well being of all people, because from what I've seen, especially those you don't agree with, you don't care about human lives really. You can pretend to and think you do, but beneath it all, deep in your core, you don't.

The only people here who have given any indication that they don't care about human lives are anti-maskers and anti-vaxers.

 

[linuxares]

Please stop using the "think of the children!" type of shield and argument of saving lives as if you and people like you actually care about the health and well being of all people, because from what I've seen, especially those you don't agree with, you don't care about human lives really. You can pretend to and think you do, but beneath it all, deep in your core, you don't.

So you speak for me now? You are a silly person since I ask people to take the vaccine to SAVE people.

 

[NyaakoXD]

The CDC pages include plenty of links to peer reviewed studies showing the vaccines' effectiveness. It's pretty easy to find the research, but I 100% believe you that you're uninterested in "doing the research." It says a lot more about you than you think that you won't even look at the evidence.

It's the same old, same old, eh? "Not look at the evidence" is basically these folks' only thing to do.

• Linux posts a statistic from the White House. Elk dismisses it immediately because it's from the White House.
• Lacius posts a link top a site where it has a whole bunch of research, studies, and data that is a lot more accurate and cites plenty from top-class researchers. Elk dismisses it because it's "just a link".

I'd bet that even if you post link, statistics, and research from even the World Health Organization (WHO), they'd still make an excuse.

It's been proven time and time again, that the vaccines do help A LOT in combating against the virus. Many professional and frontline doctors and nurses from hospitals all over say that most deaths of COVID-19 were from unvaccinated individuals compared to those that were vaccinated. As stated so many times in this thread, the vaccine is there to not only protect, but also greatly lowers the chances of getting the worst of COVID-19. We all know that vaccinated people can still spread and get infected, the same can be said of any vaccine, really. The spread and infection won't be as bad as someone who is unvaccinated. The vaccine is still an extremely great layer of protection to protect oneself and the more people take it, the slower the spread the virus can go. We already have plenty of cases where places that have high vaccination rates also have less infection and death rates compared to places that have lower vaccination rates.

 

[elk1007]

So you speak for me now? You are a silly person since I ask people to take the vaccine to SAVE people.

Because it is?
Read their sources. I'm to lazy to read them for you.

Mandate is not asking. That's imposition by force.
The white house is not a reputable source for anything. The White House is a political wing of government and is directly influenced by the narrative of the administration. Trump era arguments would not be cogent or even authoritative during his administration for the same reason.

The CDC pages include plenty of links to peer reviewed studies showing the vaccines' effectiveness. It's pretty easy to find the research, but I 100% believe you that you're uninterested in "doing the research." It says a lot more about you than you think that you won't even look at the evidence.

Telling me that the research is easy to find is asinine; if it's easy to find, then directly link studies that support your argument.
No one should have to go fishing to provide validity for opposing arguments.

Please stop using the "think of the children!" type of shield and argument of saving lives as if you and people like you actually care about the health and well being of all people, because from what I've seen, especially those you don't agree with, you don't care about human lives really. You can pretend to and think you do, but beneath it all, deep in your core, you don't.

It's really a case of confession through projection.
Telling people they care about them, and then wishing they would die for ideological reasons.
In truth, people like this only want to impose their will on other people. Since they are unable to do so physically, they support government violence against their political adversaries.

It's a true sickness that has overtaken the nation. We are no longer able to discuss politics in the US without someone 'othering' their opposition. Reminds me of 1984 in a lot ways.


War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength

It's the same old, same old, eh? "Not look at the evidence" is basically these folks' only thing to do.

• Linux posts a statistic from the White House. Elk dismisses it immediately because it's from the White House.
• Lacius posts a link top a site where it has a whole bunch of research, studies, and data that is a lot more accurate and cites plenty from top-class researchers. Elk dismisses it because it's "just a link".

I'd bet that even if you post link, statistics, and research from even the World Health Organization (WHO), they'd still make an excuse.

It's been proven time and time again, that the vaccines do help A LOT in combating against the virus. Many professional and frontline doctors and nurses from hospitals all over say that most deaths of COVID-19 were from unvaccinated individuals compared to those that were vaccinated. As stated so many times in this thread, the vaccine is there to not only protect, but also greatly lowers the chances of getting the worst of COVID-19. We all know that vaccinated people can still spread and get infected, the same can be said of any vaccine, really. The spread and infection won't be as bad as someone who is unvaccinated. The vaccine is still an extremely great layer of protection to protect oneself and the more people take it, the slower the spread the virus can go. We already have plenty of cases where places that have high vaccination rates also have less infection and death rates compared to places that have lower vaccination rates.

Do you support vaccine mandates for individuals who developed natural immunity to COVID?

 

[linuxares]

The white house is not a reputable source for anything. The White House is a political wing of government and is directly influenced by the narrative of the administration. Trump era arguments would not be cogent or even authoritative during his administration for the same reason.

Not a reputable source? Are you kidding? It's probably one of the best sources for the US.

You sadly sound like a QAnon. All proper sources that back my claims up you will say "IT'S FAKE NEWS!" so it's a time waste talking or arguing with you.

 

[Lacius]

Mandate is not asking. That's imposition by force.
The white house is not a reputable source for anything. The White House is a political wing of government and is directly influenced by the narrative of the administration. Trump era arguments would not be cogent or even authoritative during his administration for the same reason.



Telling me that the research is easy to find is asinine; if it's easy to find, then directly link studies that support your argument.
No one should have to go fishing to provide validity for opposing arguments.



It's really a case of confession through projection.
Telling people they care about them, and then wishing they would die for ideological reasons.
In truth, people like this only want to impose their will on other people. Since they are unable to do so physically, they support government violence against their political adversaries.

It's a true sickness that has overtaken the nation. We are no longer able to discuss politics in the US without someone 'othering' their opposition. Reminds me of 1984 in a lot ways.


War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength





Do you support vaccine mandates for individuals who developed natural immunity to COVID?

I've posted direct links to sources throughout this thread. Forgive me if I don't feel like holding every anti-vaxer's hand everytime they pretend there isn't overwhelming medical evidence and consensus that the vaccines work.

When the conversation goes from "here's why we should/shouldn't have mandates" to utterly disprovable statements like "vaccines aren't effective," I lose interest. It's like arguing with someone who foolishly believes the Earth is flat despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Also, make sure you quote or tag me properly on the future. I almost didn't see your message.

 

[SyphenFreht]

First of all, can you please give a reliable source for this 3/10 immigrant refusal static?
The only article I found was from the nypost, and they did not list a source.
I also could not find this statistic on the ICE website, so if you have access to it, please share.

https://www.ice.gov/coronavirus#detStat


https://www.axios.com/ice-immigrants-covid-vaccine-ee9406fe-7d83-4dce-b5be-c158e0d39f81.html


https://nypost.com/2021/07/15/30-percent-of-migrants-in-border-facilities-refused-covid-shot-report/


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ps...-immigrants-remain-unvaccinated-thats-correct

We may have the same NYpost article. The ICE website also does not specifically state the 30%, however it has solid numbers should you decide to check the math. I'm really hoping you spy the Fox News article.

Secondly, you argue that we shouldn't administer shots to people with no US medical history, for their own safety.
I agree that people are affected differently and should take their own risk assessment.
If this is the case, why should we mandate a vaccine with no medical history at all?
Did you know that companies are not liable for problems you incur from these unvetted vaccines?

Last I heard the U.S. government still has yet to push Covid vaccine mandates. They've pushed mask mandates, but unless I've missed something only companies, the private sector, are pushing mask mandates and weekly viral testing. So, maybe complain about that instead?

If you have received any of these shots, you are the experiment.
You are the test.
You won't know the true effect for 10+ years, long after this thread has died.

You're absolutely right. So far, though, I'm vaccinated and... I'm doing pretty good. I also got all my other vaccines too. Haven't mutated or been violently tracked either.

Vaccinated people still get and spread COVID. What is your argument, exactly?What benefit is there in testing unvaccinated but not the vaccinated?

God you're smart. You must be thinking the Covid vaccine is like the polio vaccine. You come across as someone who would refuse the polio vaccine and then get polio, and then blame science again. I hope I'm just reading what you've written wrong.

The goal is clear: social division through government sanction.

Uh huh. The Covid testing and mask mandates are the way to go for social division. Not civil rights, education, economy political affiliation, stuff like that. The government is using masks to divide us.

COVID has a very low morality rate. It isn't eating up the lives of citizens.

You got that from Wikipedia, didn't you? No, but really. Any, every virus that has run rampant over the history of mankind has had government intervention at some point. If they didn't, we'd probably still have Polio. Or the Bubonic plague.

Ironically, he government mandated shut downs destroyed more lives than COVID ever could have.
Many small businesses had to close up during this period, and they cannot reopen because they weren't big enough to absorb the hit.
Out of work, live savings were swallowed by a country not allowed to work.
Big corporations, on the other hand, were allowed to stay open and absorb all of the business of these small stores.

Yes, because big businesses have politicians in their pockets and vice versa. That's why some companies still have monopolies, which are technically outlawed. That's an unfortunate side effect, but not necessarily derived because of. Small businesses couldn't survive because of larger corporations providing convenience of things like delivery during the shutdown, something mom n pops style businesses couldn't compete with. Maybe instead of blaming the government, you should look at companies like Amazon that carve themselves such an edge that they freely dominate thousands of other start ups. Why didn't Amazon donate to keep these businesses open would be a better question to ask in the face of closing businesses during the pandemic.

Thanks for the hat tip, but the phrase is "tip your hand".
The expression refers to poker, where you want to keep the cards in your hand a secret.
Tipping your hand means to reveal your true intentions, which you have done again.

Thanks for that. Despite knowing what the actual quote referred to (it's actually part of my job to know stuff like), I was going in a different, more condescending direction. As far as showing my true intentions? I've never tried to hide my intentions. I think I'm pretty clear: hypocrisy is annoying, and some people just aren't fit to live in a progressive society. Anything else you think I'm hiding?

Do you believe in political genocide?
I say live and let live, and you want people to die because they don't agree with you.

Actually you're putting way too much into the effort I may or may not have in wanting people to actively die. I really don't care who lives or dies outside of my loved ones; at the end of the day, it's ultimately your choice whether you want to contribute to a better society or to just die off at the back of the pack. But I'll make sure my kids and loved ones get vaccinated and stay safe; if you and yours die off before you've really experienced the majority of your life, so be it.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. I literally can't wait for your response.

 

[elk1007]

Not a reputable source? Are you kidding? It's probably one of the best sources for the US.

You sadly sound like a QAnon. All proper sources that back my claims up you will say "IT'S FAKE NEWS!" so it's a time waste talking or arguing with you.

Do you even live in the US?
Do you know what propaganda is?

Again, the White House is a political arm of the government.
They have a narrative to push, and will do so regardless of the hard reality.
This happens for both parties in the US. It isn't bipartisan behavior.

Calling me QAnon is simply a red herring.
I never mentioned this and you're bringing it up to discredit unrelated arguments that you cannot rebut.

 

[BitMasterPlus]

The only people here who have given any indication that they don't care about human lives are anti-maskers and anti-vaxers.

Not a reputable source? Are you kidding? It's probably one of the best sources for the US.

You sadly sound like a QAnon. All proper sources that back my claims up you will say "IT'S FAKE NEWS!" so it's a time waste talking or arguing with you.

Your actions and words have stated otherwise that you care about people, You don't and only care if you're right and to force other people in your twisted ideologies. When people say they care when it's shown the exact opposite, it completely disgusts me.

 

[ryansspace]

i wont even read the messages in here out of the angst i have for any ant-vaxxers, but i got both pfizer doses this summer and tbh it's pretty annoying that ppl are making general public safety politicalized

 

[KingVamp]

Telling me that the research is easy to find is asinine; if it's easy to find, then directly link studies that support your argument.
No one should have to go fishing to provide validity for opposing arguments.

Ignorance is Strength

Irony.

Telling people they care about them, and then wishing they would die for ideological reasons.

Kind of like claiming to be pro-life, but then pushing against anything that's meant to help people live.

In truth, people like this only want to impose their will on other people. Since they are unable to do so physically, they support government violence against their political adversaries.

In that case, covid is already doing enough violence for them. Why would those people try to get other people vaccinated?

It's a true sickness that has overtaken the nation. We are no longer able to discuss politics in the US without someone 'othering' their opposition. Reminds me of 1984 in a lot ways.

If you ignore all the deaths and sickness due to covid, sure, I guess.

Do you support vaccine mandates for individuals who developed natural immunity to COVID?

It seems like if a person manages to get natural immunity, they are still more protected with the vaccine, so yes. If they don't or can't get it, they can instead continue to get tested.

 

[SyphenFreht]

Your actions and words have stated otherwise that you care about people, You don't and only care if you're right and to force other people in your twisted ideologies. When people say they care when it's shown the exact opposite, it completely disgusts me.

We've now left the topic at hand and resorted to personal attacks and mud slinging. Starting to smell like a 2016 election race around here.