Can Donald Trump become President Again?

[Dark_Ansem]

Father of the mechanism running the world’s most murderous regimes, you mean. Now that’s someone who’s roasting 24/7, rightfully so.

LOL most murderous regimes, yep, nothing to see here, rightwing dictatorships, nothing at all! Blaming Marx for nonsense is hilarious even for your standards.

Ronald forgives you.

Ronald is burning in hell.

 

[smf]

This statement doesn’t hold water - the voters do not set the policy, they only vote. A candidate can win the vote of the electorate with their charm and enact good policy. The two are not connected, in any way.

The voters choose the politicians based on how they say they will set the policy.

If you find yourself choosing the same president as people who make poor choices, you should re-evaluate your own choices they are probably poor too.

This is the difference between liberals and the right, liberals re-evaluate their mistakes and make better choices the next time while the right just doubles down on poor choices and tries to change reality to meet them (for an example see Trumps sharpie pen scribbling on the map...)

 

[Foxi4]

LOL most murderous regimes, yep, nothing to see here, rightwing dictatorships, nothing at all! Blaming Marx for nonsense is hilarious even for your standards.

Communist regimes are murderous. Arguably *the* most murderous in recorded history.

Ronald is burning in hell.

Because the income tax still exists.

The voters choose the politicians based on how they say they will set the policy.

We should be so lucky.

If you find yourself choosing the same president as people who make poor choices, you should re-evaluate your own choices they are probably poor too.

Does that apply to mayors? Detroit would like a word.

This is the difference between liberals and the right, liberals re-evaluate their mistakes and make better choices the next time (…)

Hilarious, especially considering the example above.

while the right just doubles down on poor choices and tries to change reality to meet them (for an example see Trumps sharpie pen scribbling on the map...)

I don’t care about personal notes on a map. Storm in a teacup - he made an error and corrected himself after the fact.

An election is part popularity contest and part policy, what value you want to assign to those two elements is up to you. I don’t delve into people’s reasoning behind choosing one politician other another, but to pretend that the gross majority of voters vote a specific way because they’ve read the platform and support one path of development over the other, or that they weighed the pros and cons, is truly naive. One candidate is red and one is blue, that’s about half of the decision-making process, ads account for the majority of the other half.

As did the vast majority of people before the advent of modern medicine.

It warms my heart regardless.

There's literally nobody with more L's. The puppetmasters behind his presidency set off a chain of events that will eventually lead to the end of democracy in the US. Assuming we can even still call it alive right now, with only one functional political party that has an actual platform. The man himself was just a trained circus monkey.

”Sky is falling” nonsense. Democracy isn’t going anywhere. By that logic, the founding fathers themselves started that particular “chain of events” since they were never fans of unrestrained democracy in the first place - they’re the ones who implemented stopgaps against it, rightfully so - they prevent mob rule.

 

[BitMasterPlus]

The fact you are playing "I know you are, but what am I" means you give a damn

Not sure how that makes sense but ok. This convo's not going anywhere productive anymore anyway.

 

[Purple_Shyguy]

Hydrogen Peroxide comes in various mouth washes and toothpastes that you can buy in stores so I don't know what you're going on about. I suggest you discuss it with your dentist if you have concerns.

https://www.dentaly.org/us/oral-hygiene/best-mouthwash/hydrogen-peroxide-mouthwash/

https://www.colgate.com/en-us/oral-...gen-peroxide-toothpaste-four-common-questions

Nooooooo delete this! Bleach bad bleach bad! Orange man say inject bleach!!!

 

[smf]

Not sure how that makes sense but ok. This convo's not going anywhere productive anymore anyway.

It makes sense & we are learning more about how bad you are at making points.

So please continue.

 

[BitMasterPlus]

It makes sense & we are learning more about how bad you are at making points.

So please continue.

How about you keep talking so I can get a nice bed time story to put me to sleep? I have yet to see a lot of people here make actually good and coherent points that make sense at this point.

Seriously, why are we even still talking if nothing productive comes of it? Just wanna stroke your own ego at this point?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Communist regimes are murderous. Arguably *the* most murderous in recorded history.

Utter nonsense. No communist regime instigated two world wars. Neither it was a communist regime who instigated that "war on terror" debacle.

 

[Purple_Shyguy]

Utter nonsense. No communist regime instigated two world wars. Neither it was a communist regime who instigated that "war on terror" debacle.

So the only way to be murderous is to start a world war?

 

[Xzi]

Utter nonsense. No communist regime instigated two world wars. Neither it was a communist regime who instigated that "war on terror" debacle.

Shieeet, between the US and the UK alone they've colonized and/or invaded 80% to 90% of the world. Foxi can't be objective about this because of his past experiences, but if we're counting things in terms of death and destruction caused by "capitalism vs communism," capitalism wins by a country mile. Bearing in mind that that's a silly way to measure things to begin with, as there are individuals directly responsible for those deaths instead; economic systems are only involved to the extent that they fund the military industrial complex. I blame Stalin for murdering so many of his own people, and I blame GWB/Cheney for murdering so many civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[Foxi4]

Utter nonsense. No communist regime instigated two world wars. Neither it was a communist regime who instigated that "war on terror" debacle.

Communist regimes are the most murderous, bar none, and there are plenty of shallow graves in forests or trees with their bark torn off to prove as much. Between Stalin and Mao, communism can be attributed to anywhere between 60 million to 150 million deaths in total, depending on how you calculate excess death. Some of those deaths are a result of direct mass killings (Katyn, The Great Purge, Cambodian genocide, so on and so forth) while others are a result of state policy designed with the express intent of ethnic cleansing (the Holodomor), or just boneheaded policy in general (The Great Leap Forward). This isn’t really a debate - it’s accepted historical fact. Both world wars put together pale in comparison to the total death toll of communism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

Shieeet, between the US and the UK alone they've colonized and/or invaded 80% to 90% of the world. Foxi can't be objective about this because of his past experiences, but if we're counting things in terms of death and destruction caused by "capitalism vs communism," capitalism wins by a country mile. Bearing in mind that that's a silly way to measure things to begin with, as there are individuals directly responsible for those deaths instead; economic systems are only involved to the extent that they fund the military industrial complex. I blame Stalin for murdering so many of his own people, and I blame GWB/Cheney for murdering so many civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq.

It is said that in the 500 years of European colonisation of the Americas, 90% of indigenous peoples have died, for a variety of reasons, from direct killings to disease brought over on the ships of colonisers (which is a bit of a Stretch Armstrong-level situation - I don’t see how someone can be held liable for being sick, it’s not exactly a decision one makes deliberately, but hey). That number translates to an estimated 100 million total, give or take. The communists accomplished the same or higher number in just a few decades. The reason why “capitalism versus communism” comparison is a non sequitur is because deaths under communism are by design whereas deaths under capitalism are not. Communism operates within specific confines of a centrally planned economy that the state is in charge of, capitalism is a blanket term describing any market-based economy. The market doesn’t kill people - the market is interested in creating and selling products. Communist states *do* kill people, either directly through genocide or indirectly through market manipulation, which they’ve accepted the responsibility for because it’s a prerequisite to their operation. If a farmer plants crop that isn’t in demand and ends up in poverty, that’s not capitalism’s fault - there was no market for it, the farmer is poor because he’s in a low demand market and should consider changes to their business. If a farmer grows crop that *is* in demand, the state rolls in and confiscates it, the state *is* at fault for the farmer’s poverty - the state took away their livelihood. This is simple stuff.

 

[Xzi]

The reason why “capitalism versus communism” comparison is a non sequitur is because deaths under communism are by design whereas deaths under capitalism are not. Communism operates within specific confines of a centrally planned economy that the state is in charge of, capitalism is a blanket term describing any market-based economy. The market doesn’t kill people - the market is interested in creating and selling products. Communist states *do* kill people, either directly through genocide or indirectly through market manipulation, which they’ve accepted the responsibility for because it’s a prerequisite to their operation.

Yeah that's a pant load. "The market" doesn't get to dodge responsibility for all the deaths it causes, either directly or indirectly, especially when it's in the business of fucking with government to ensure that they don't provide for basic necessities either. Besides, many millionaires/billionaires gladly accept responsibility for the deaths caused by the private sector, while simultaneously laughing them off. Sociopathic behavior is pretty common among that crowd. Oligarchy and authoritarianism remain the same whether they're employed by a fake communist like Stalin who didn't redistribute fuck all, or by an alt-reich "businessman" with a bad spray tan. Or, if you need someone with an even higher body count, Mohammad Bin Salman would be an even better example of a modern ruthless capitalist.

 

[Foxi4]

Yeah that's a pant load. "The market" doesn't get to dodge responsibility for all the deaths it causes, either directly or indirectly, especially when it's in the business of fucking with government to ensure that they don't provide for basic necessities either. Besides, many millionaires/billionaires gladly accept responsibility for the deaths caused by the private sector, while simultaneously laughing them off. Sociopathic behavior is pretty common among that crowd. Oligarchy and authoritarianism remain the same whether they're employed by a fake communist like Stalin who didn't redistribute fuck all, or by an alt-reich "businessman" with a bad spray tan.

Nobody’s “in charge of the market”, people are *definitely* in charge of the state. I can point at a person responsible for deaths under Maoist policies - Mao. Under a market economy you operate on individual responsibility instead - people are responsible for what they do, and face consequences of their actions on an individual level. Regarding government corruption, I’m all for prosecuting government officials for colluding with private businessmen to the detriment of the public, but I don’t know if corruption is a good argument for you given the fact that communist states are rife with it, primarily due to scarcity. The difference between some corruption at the top (which is illegal and actively prosecuted) versus corruption on every level of governance (which is mostly ignored, with the occasional scapegoat prosecuted to get free cheers from the crowd) is quite staggering.

 

[Xzi]

Nobody’s “in charge of the market”, people are *definitely* in charge of the state.

There are undeniably people on top of the chain of command when it comes to the private sector. That might be hundreds, or even as many as thousands. Same can apply to government and the state, regardless of what economic system is in place.

Under a market economy you operate on individual responsibility instead - people are responsible for what they do, and face consequences of their actions on an individual level.

Do they though, or in a capitalist economy do the rich just get richer regardless of what they do? Let's ask Elon Musk, who got the seed money to buy Tesla from his apartheid emerald mines that utilized child slave labor.

The difference between some corruption at the top (which is illegal and actively prosecuted) versus corruption on every level of governance (which is mostly ignored, with the occasional scapegoat prosecuted to get free cheers from the crowd) is quite staggering.

I'm sorry, which is which in this example? You could be talking about any number of Republican administrations when it comes to the latter. Or even China's current band of capitalist oligarchs in charge of government.

 

[smf]

I have yet to see a lot of people here make actually good and coherent points that make sense at this point.

It's no surprise you can't make sense of a lot of the points.

I don't believe you grasp the concept of how to behave in a constructive discussion either.

 

[smf]

Under a market economy you operate on individual responsibility instead - people are responsible for what they do, and face consequences of their actions on an individual level.

Not really, you're left responsible for sorting out whatever mess you were put in by someone richer than you.

That isn't the same as being responsible for your own actions.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Communist regimes are the most murderous, bar none, and there are plenty of shallow graves in forests or trees with their bark torn off to prove as much. Between Stalin and Mao, communism can be attributed to anywhere between 60 million to 150 million deaths in total, depending on how you calculate excess death. Some of those deaths are a result of direct mass killings (Katyn, The Great Purge, Cambodian genocide, so on and so forth) while others are a result of state policy designed with the express intent of ethnic cleansing (the Holodomor), or just boneheaded policy in general (The Great Leap Forward). This isn’t really a debate - it’s accepted historical fact. Both world wars put together pale in comparison to the total death toll of communism.

You're ridiculous. The consequences of the world wars and colonialism make these seem tame. And as your own WP page says, those numbers are contested. Were they horrible? Yes. But your disingenuous argument that somehow this makes them worse than the right triggering two world wars and a catastrophic war on terror whose consequences still exist today (not to mention slavery etc) makes your headcount look silly. Not to mention, no genocides either. Nor nuclear fallout.

Your whole idea that somehow this is Marx's fault is absolutely ludicrous as well. Are you blaming Nietzsche and the Catholic Church for nazism and fascism as well?

It is said that in the 500 years of European colonisation of the Americas, 90% of indigenous peoples have died, for a variety of reasons, from direct killings to disease brought over on the ships of colonisers (which is a bit of a Stretch Armstrong-level situation - I don’t see how someone can be held liable for being sick, it’s not exactly a decision one makes deliberately, but hey). That number translates to an estimated 100 million total, give or take. The communists accomplished the same or higher number in just a few decades. The reason why “capitalism versus communism” comparison is a non sequitur is because deaths under communism are by design whereas deaths under capitalism are not. Communism operates within specific confines of a centrally planned economy that the state is in charge of, capitalism is a blanket term describing any market-based economy. The market doesn’t kill people - the market is interested in creating and selling products. Communist states *do* kill people, either directly through genocide or indirectly through market manipulation, which they’ve accepted the responsibility for because it’s a prerequisite to their operation. If a farmer plants crop that isn’t in demand and ends up in poverty, that’s not capitalism’s fault - there was no market for it, the farmer is poor because he’s in a low demand market and should consider changes to their business. If a farmer grows crop that *is* in demand, the state rolls in and confiscates it, the state *is* at fault for the farmer’s poverty - the state took away their livelihood. This is simple stuff.

Talk about mental gymnastics here. Wasn't aware you were one of those denialists trying to whitewash history.

 

[Deleted member 559230]

As even a 3rd grader could tell, that's not what you were talking about. You were talking about pure Hydrogen Peroxide, and I stand by my point. Don't move the goalposts.

No, you're putting words in my mouth, which is typical behavior of a liberal. You assumed I was talking about 100% pure Hydrogen Peroxide and it wasn't. Hydrogen Peroxide comes in many products. Yes, there is the pure 100% chemical, but that's not what I was referring to. I was talking about toothpaste and mouth wash. The only goalposts that were moved are in your head. By the way, I'm not even sure how to obtain 100% Hydrogen Peroxide as even the big brown bottles at the pharmacy come diluted. You're the one trying to sound educated by stating misinformation that these products ruin your teeth and gums, which they don't. Hydrogen Peroxide is safe to use even straight from the brown bottles. It can also be used to clean and disinfect wounds (as it is after all a disinfectant).

Edit: Alcohol is also a disinfectant, was on the list and is safe to use to disinfect cuts and wounds on the body.

 

[Deleted member 559230]

LOL most murderous regimes, yep, nothing to see here, rightwing dictatorships, nothing at all! Blaming Marx for nonsense is hilarious even for your standards.

I'm not sure why the party that hates old white rich men would take up a form of government that was created by an old rich white man. It's also been proven to fail time and time again. You do realize that American's enemies want to force us to adopt communism through socialism because they want to see us destroyed, right? You're being played.

 

[Dr_Faustus]

I'm not sure why the party that hates old white rich men would take up a form of government that was created by an old rich white man. It's also been proven to fail time and time again. You do realize that American's enemies want to force us to adopt communism through socialism because they want to see us destroyed, right? You're being played.

Yeah, because good ol' capitalism work for us when we had been hit with the pandemic right? It almost destabilized our entire country because of how ass backwards our system is compared to other countries when it comes to income and healthcare.

You are just one of those people who shits themselves in fear whenever the word of "socialized" gets put into anything. Because when we start actually giving free things to US citizens it means the end of democracy as we all know it! Perhaps if we redirect some of that money from giving multi-billion dollar companies kickbacks and the military's unending fund in case we need to tactically nuke every other country on this planet and put it into actually helping the US citizens we would not have such a shitshow of a situation currently still unfolding in our country.