14 yr old gets busted for lemonade stand..(w.t.f)

[BlueStar]

I'm perfectly happy with it being described as a "consequence". If I can't afford a car, rent on a large house, a fishing permit or a sales permit, me not having those things and the benefits I bring isn't a punishment meted out on me by the state.

 

[BlueStar]

What I will say is that I think kids *should* be allowed to do these things without paying that much. But I'm sure you'll agree common sense isn't common. Making an exception here is fine for these kids, but what about the next ones? To ensure consistency its regulations that need changed, not outcry over one incident.

 

[nryn99]

yeah, those are really consequences but in this case, it can be called either punishment or consequence.

you're understanding of punishment is just limited, though there's nothing entirely wrong with that. it's just better if you have the ability to better understand what the other person meant.

your example with the car and stuff isn't really relevant to what i'm saying.

let's break it down like this.

a[if you don't have a driver's licence] means [you can't drive]
b[you don't have sales permit] means [you can't do business]

a[you try to drive] when caught [you'll need to pay a fine or something]
b[you try to sell] when caught [you just get shut down, no fine since it's not that extreme]

there. understand?

EDIT:

What I will say is that I think kids *should* be allowed to do these things without paying that much. But I'm sure you'll agree common sense isn't common. Making an exception here is fine for these kids, but what about the next ones? To ensure consistency its regulations that need changed, not outcry over one incident.

i see you're making a different argument. please wait for a moment while i reread some things.

 

[Densetsu]

I don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but in the US (at least in my area) we have garage sales or yard sales where people (read: adults) sell old things that they want to get rid of right in front of their house. It's common in my neighborhood and they even put up cardboard signs on the main streets to let others know about the yard sale. I have never heard of a yard sale being shut down by police, so why should a lemonade stand run by kids be shut down?

The fact that this thread even exists blows my mind.

 

[Shinigami357]

I'm sure that a small change in the city law could be done with little fanfare. Certainly there are many of pre-existing ones that go through such modifications as seen fit by whoever has the authority to change them. It's really all just a matter of wills, and it seems in this case, the city isn't budging any time soon. Too bad for the children, then. LOL, back to mowing lawns or whatever it is kids do.

 

[BlueStar]

yeah, those are really consequences but in this case, it can be called either punishment or consequence.

you're understanding of punishment is just limited, though there's nothing entirely wrong with that. it's just better if you have the ability to better understand what the other person meant.

your example with the car and stuff isn't really relevant to what i'm saying.

let's break it down like this.

a[if you don't have a driver's licence] means [you can't drive]
b[you don't have sales permit] means [you can't do business]

a[you try to drive] when caught [you'll need to pay a fine or something]
b[you try to sell] when caught [you just get shut down, no fine since it's not that extreme]

there. understand?

EDIT:

What I will say is that I think kids *should* be allowed to do these things without paying that much. But I'm sure you'll agree common sense isn't common. Making an exception here is fine for these kids, but what about the next ones? To ensure consistency its regulations that need changed, not outcry over one incident.

i see you're making a different argument. please wait for a moment while i reread some things.

Not being able to drive is the consequence, not a punishment. The punishment is for breaking the law by driving without a license.

While the law is you need a permit, sorry, you need a permit. If we make a law and think 'oh, apart from if you think it would be mean to enforce it' cops can go around making the expected exceptions for people they like and enforce the law for people they don't.

 

[Shinigami357]

I'm perfectly happy with it being described as a "consequence". If I can't afford a car, rent on a large house, a fishing permit or a sales permit, me not having those things and the benefits I bring isn't a punishment meted out on me by the state.

I think you have mistaken this. I assure you that indeed, you not owning things because you are not allowed to/can't afford them is not a punishment. That is because, in that case, you have not yet tried to acquire such things [the fact that you can't is irrelevant, it is the act of trying to acquire them that matters]. In this case, you have not broken any conceivable laws or rules whatsoever [not owning anything is not a crime, after all] and therefore you cannot be punished.

There's a fundamental difference because in this case, the children were clearly caught in violation of an active city law/regulation/statute [what have you, call it what you want]. In your example, you had not broken any, and thus any consequence toward you is not in any shape or form a 'punishment'. And yes, making them take their lemonade stand down is a punishment - depriving someone of their chosen form of income, in this case.

 

[nryn99]

Not being able to drive is the consequence, not a punishment. The punishment is for breaking the law by driving without a license.

While the law is you need a permit, sorry, you need a permit. If we make a law and think 'oh, apart from if you think it would be mean to enforce it' cops can go around making the expected exceptions for people they like and enforce the law for people they don't.

lol, sorry but you're really funny.

a[if you don't have a driver's licence] means [you can't drive]
b[you don't have sales permit] means [you can't do business]

a[you try to drive] when caught [you'll need to pay a fine or something]
b[you try to sell] when caught [you just get shut down, no fine since it's not that extreme](only in this case)

consequence penalty

is this better?

also, can i ask you.

what would you do if there was an accident where the drunk driver hit another car. the drunk driver died but the person in the other car didn't? what would happen?

i've seen some of this cases fall under 'reckless imprudence resulting to homicide' where's justice? cops can't do anything but charge the other driver because the drunk driver died.

 

[FAST6191]

what would you do if there was an accident where the drunk driver hit another car. the drunk driver died but the person in the other car didn't? what would happen?

i've seen some of this cases fall under 'reckless imprudence resulting to homicide' where's justice? cops can't do anything but charge the other driver because the drunk driver died.

In all cases there would have to be other factors at work- if the other driver despite being sober was driving the wrong way down a one way street or something- to say nothing of what is considered drunk as far as driving is concerned ( http://www.drinkdriving.org/worldwide_drin...ving_limits.php not to mention tolerances ) simply being drunk does not necessarily mean you are physically incapable of handling a vehicle.

As for "law applies" I thought one of the main aspects of case law (or indeed the court system) was to discuss cases (be they fringe cases or otherwise) where the law might not be quite so well worded. To spin it again there are cases (and now defences) in patent/IP law where you can be in what amounts to a direct violation but there are mitigating circumstances.

@ Densetsu9000 such things are common enough everywhere I have been (although around here car boot sales are a more common method) there might well be exceptions for such activities.

 

[BlueStar]

I'm perfectly happy with it being described as a "consequence". If I can't afford a car, rent on a large house, a fishing permit or a sales permit, me not having those things and the benefits I bring isn't a punishment meted out on me by the state.

I think you have mistaken this. I assure you that indeed, you not owning things because you are not allowed to/can't afford them is not a punishment. That is because, in that case, you have not yet tried to acquire such things [the fact that you can't is irrelevant, it is the act of trying to acquire them that matters]. In this case, you have not broken any conceivable laws or rules whatsoever [not owning anything is not a crime, after all] and therefore you cannot be punished.

There's a fundamental difference because in this case, the children were clearly caught in violation of an active city law/regulation/statute [what have you, call it what you want]. In your example, you had not broken any, and thus any consequence toward you is not in any shape or form a 'punishment'. And yes, making them take their lemonade stand down is a punishment - depriving someone of their chosen form of income, in this case.

No, punishing them would be starting criminal proceedings against them for the time they had already operated without a permit.

As for the drunk driver thing above, I think you must have different laws over there. If you're in a crash with s drunk driver and he was at fault and dies you're not going to be charged with anything. Not sure how it relates to this case.

 

[_Chaz_]

I love how everyone who's against the lemonade stand keeps bringing up "What if...?".
If the girls were on the sidewalk playing with chalk or something, any number of those things could have happened anyway.

 

[FAST6191]

I love how everyone who's against the lemonade stand keeps bringing up "What if...?".
If the girls were on the sidewalk playing with chalk or something, any number of those things could have happened anyway.

Certainly that applies to some but I am going to accuse you of missing the point and it also seems the discussion has branched into a more general discussion on law.

"against the lemonade stand"
An interesting choice of words although I am not going to read anything into it just yet but I will say people do not seem to be "against the lemonade stand" so much as arguing that legally speaking the actions of the police could well be justifiable.

As for what if that seems to be the foundation of many of the "good" laws we have- reactionary laws do exactly have a sparkling history. I will agree though some of the examples and analogies are speeding very quickly into ridiculous country.

 

[Shinigami357]

Psssh. Your definition of punishment is too narrow. For chrissakes, have it your way then.

 

[KingVamp]

idk I may have to agree with Hells Malice on this one.

 

[hundredhead]

From what i can see The kids were doing something against the law, mainly selling lemonade and setting up a business without a permit. It wasnt the cop's fault at all he was just doing his job. Most people or cops would pay no attention to it or turn a blind eye, but no he did his job and shut it down because they were breaking the law.

Let me put it this way. If you live in New york city and take the bus you see kids getting on all the time without a metrocard because they lost it ( me included). Now are the bus drivers supposed to let them on without a metrocard? No, but almost all do let them on. Is the bus driver who doesnt let them on evil because of that? No he's just doing his job and following the rules. Of course it would be nicer if he did let them on but then that would be breaking the law and the rules.

 

[koimayeul]

right doing his job.. over zealous or he just hate on little girls, or lemonade, or all at once

 

[shortz1994]

From what i can see The kids were doing something against the law, mainly selling lemonade and setting up a business without a permit. It wasnt the cop's fault at all he was just doing his job. Most people or cops would pay no attention to it or turn a blind eye, but no he did his job and shut it down because they were breaking the law.

Let me put it this way. If you live in New york city and take the bus you see kids getting on all the time without a metrocard because they lost it ( me included). Now are the bus drivers supposed to let them on without a metrocard? No, but almost all do let them on. Is the bus driver who doesnt let them on evil because of that? No he's just doing his job and following the rules. Of course it would be nicer if he did let them on but then that would be breaking the law and the rules.

dude, bus tickets, an this ten year old girl an 14year old girl, selling lemonade are two different things. Wifes from up state, an My family is kingston.N.Y.so i know n.y. if your cool the diver will be to, besides if a ten yr old forgot her ticket, my nice would let them on. This is just one of the rules (laws)in georgia that are screwed i could post more.

But here's one. girls scouts can not sell girl scout cookies, in front of the Juliet Moore house (the founder of girl scouts). Cause why? The hotels an the little restaurant/bars, are scared that people will spend their money on the cookies(samoas

) an not in the buisness. now that's messed up.

I didn't know this little article was going to turn into a bitch(political) fight,( tea party if that person (women) running for president . wins, the country is done!(screwed).Or What laws are right or wrong.(race card down here gets pulled 85% of the time..)I've seen it. I put up here for people to just say "oh sh-- thats messed up. an move on.

 

[Waflix]

From what i can see The kids were doing something against the law, mainly selling lemonade and setting up a business without a permit. It wasnt the cop's fault at all he was just doing his job. Most people or cops would pay no attention to it or turn a blind eye, but no he did his job and shut it down because they were breaking the law.

Let me put it this way. If you live in New york city and take the bus you see kids getting on all the time without a metrocard because they lost it ( me included). Now are the bus drivers supposed to let them on without a metrocard? No, but almost all do let them on. Is the bus driver who doesnt let them on evil because of that? No he's just doing his job and following the rules. Of course it would be nicer if he did let them on but then that would be breaking the law and the rules.

dude, bus tickets, an this ten year old girl an 14year old girl, selling lemonade are two different things.

Dude, ever heard of a metaphor?

 

[KingVamp]

Dude, ever heard of a metaphor?

Isn't that more like a (bad) analogy?

Anyway, does washing cars need a permit? Just wondering.

 

[Waflix]

Anyway, does washing cars need a permit? Just wondering.

Yes.

Contact the city or county department that handles business licenses and request an application.

Source
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QUOTE(Waflix @ Jul 18 2011, 06:52 AM)

Dude, ever heard of a metaphor?

Isn't that more like a (bad) analogy?

No.