Amazon Prime Video will no longer be supported on the Wii U after this September

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While the Nintendo Switch has more than outdone its predecessor, in terms of sales and popularity, the Wii U still lives on, as either an emulation box, or a console which to stream media from. Except, the latter of which is soon to take a hit, as Amazon is preparing to discontinue their Prime Video app on the console, according to emails that are being sent out to users. On September 26th, 2019, you'll no longer be able to watch Amazon video content on your Nintendo Wii U. Of course, Amazon, ever the entrepreneur, is offering a $25 credit towards buying a Fire TV Stick if you've used Prime Video on the Wii U recently, so you can keep watching your shows. Amazon Prime Video released on the Wii U's eShop the same year the system itself launched, back in 2012.

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Jayro

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GOOD

worst nintendo console I've ever owned. i was lucky to have played 10 games on it it's whole lifetime!
I loved it. I'm quite upset that I bought a Wii U, invested so much money into it, just to have all the promised third parties jump ship besides Ubisoft, and then have them slap me in the face further with the Switch by porting all the Wii U games to it, instead of giving us new games and sequels. Nintendo did me pretty fucking dirty. They didn't even price drop the Wii U not ONCE in it's lifetime, which is sad. I feel for all the other Wii U owners that got the shaft like I did.
 

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When my Wii U was stolen from my garage I was kind of relieved.

Did you not feel sorry for the thief? Granted it is not as bad as when my original xbox was stolen... I was half wondering if was going to get sued for causing a hernia.

I loved it. I'm quite upset that I bought a Wii U, invested so much money into it, just to have all the promised third parties jump ship besides Ubisoft
Are you seriously telling us you expected the games to come on the Wii U?

does anyone actually use prime video?
i have prime and i think i tried to use it once, literally nothing is free anyways
and the interface is just as shitty as every other Amazon interface
doesn't everyone just use ad free patched streaming .APK's these days like cinema tea TV and cyberflix etc. or whatever the latest terrarium clones is this week
i barely use those either because 99% of what hollywood has shat out for the last 15 years has been new ghost busters tier garbage anyways

i am looking forward to the ew season of Mr. Robot and the new creepshow series though
My sister stuck her account on my mum's TV. I would not get it if you were a fan of TV shows in general, or as some kind of alternative to TV*, but they seem to like it and it allowed them to watch some things and have the odd film at night if the rest of TV is not up to much. Granted this was in the UK though and the few times I have looked at netflix's UK offerings... never mind the pitiful offerings from the likes of nowtv.

*between the free offerings of the major terrestrial and former digital only programmers, amazon and maybe one other service you could convincingly have something to kill a few hours here and there in an evening. Compared to a raspberry pi and a decent torrent site/usenet hookup though then not a chance.
 
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Jayro

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Are you seriously telling us you expected the games to come on the Wii U?
No, I didn't want the Wii U games ported to the Switch, I wanted NEW games instead. I wouldn't have bought the Switch if I knew it was just going to be a port machine. Getting nothing from third parties but Wii U, 360, and PS3 game ports... Where's Mario Kart 9? Where's Pikmin 3? Where are the third-party exclusives? (We got Xmen 3, which is cool I guess....) The Switch is doing well, and I'm glad... but the software library still seems much dryer than it should be if you omit all the ports it has gotten.
 

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Really? Then you have...
1200px-Sega-Nomad-Handheld.jpg
2015-12-04-image.png
1024px-Philips-CDi-220-wController-FL.jpg
7258xSVeJbKkzXhyse9WLM9aGb5buzYRywwqLUmY2LKeQcPFiE4Ahpwp4FnvSspyRQLJg4F5fUL4VPg2e4m8TK9RH9Cq8rE9FMjqe7NbRJu96zrBNCpMpAxmYycJzYnSbwsoyopZbK4Tr

Really, I thought the Wii U looked quite sleek. It was a long, narrow console but once you put it under your TV you can't notice that. It's very reasonably sized otherwise (comparable to my Wii) and I can't really see where you're coming from if you're saying it looks worse than all of the above.
H2x1_generic_WiiU_image1280w.jpg
LOL!

Thats your opinion. I don't like Wii U design anyway. Thank you very much.
 

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LOL!

Thats your opinion. I don't like Wii U design anyway. Thank you very much.
Well the Wii U is objectively not as badly designed as other systems, but if you would prefer to circumvent fact in the name of opinion then you can do that. It's not really my business. Just don't make claims like that. "I don't like the Wii U's design" is perfectly fine, but your initial "Worst console design ever" quote is just wrong. I don't think it's my favourite design, but placing it below some of the systems I showed among some other terribly designed systems isn't a matter of opinion.
Edit: I re-read your message and "Ugliest console" is much more opinionated than what I initially thought you were saying. You're free to think that way if you believe the Wii U is uglier than the consoles I showed, I suppose.

Throwing the subject out to the floor, I never really understood the hate bandwagon towards the Wii U. Do some Nintendo fans refuse to associate with it because it wasn't successful? Without the Wii U's titles, the Switch would have been a hell of a lot dryer at launch and you could definitely argue the Switch owes much of its success to the Wii U library.
You will never see the same people say "My Switch was stolen and thank god, what a burden", interestingly enough!
 
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FAST6191

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I never really understood the hate bandwagon towards the Wii U. Do some Nintendo fans refuse to associate with it because it wasn't successful? Without the Wii U's titles, the Switch would have been a hell of a lot dryer at launch and you could definitely argue the Switch owes much of its success to the Wii U library.
You will never see the same people say "My Switch was stolen and thank god, what a burden", interestingly enough!

So the Switch lacks backwards compatibility and somehow that makes the portendo a better notion?... To think I doubted people would take to paid online.

As for the dislike of the Wii U. Following the release desert of the last few years of the Wii Nintendo had to showcase something good. So Nintendo took their overclocked gamecube that was the Wii, stuck three of them together with tape, put a tablet controller on there and called it a day, releasing it at a time when the equivalent performance devices were considered way over the hill and holding back game devs. Performance is not everything but at the same time they did not get third parties onboard, did not have a good online service, had sub par emulator sections, did little to court indie devs, after talking a big talk about asymmetric play they gave us next to nothing (and what we did get was not a patch on what homebrew devs, PC games and general game theory had been doing for possibly decades in some instances), and continued with the next to nothing when it came to first party titles so we barely even had the first party CPR that had been a staple of their home consoles since the N64.
Is it really such a wonder that people hold no great fondness for the Wii U before, during and after its life?

As for stolen Switch being a burden. Most people can usually find something else to act as a dust magnet.
 

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Really wish Netflix and Prime Video would release on switch. Not everyone has millions of consoles and a smart tv, y’know?
 

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As for the dislike of the Wii U. Following the release desert of the last few years of the Wii Nintendo had to showcase something good. So Nintendo took their overclocked gamecube that was the Wii, stuck three of them together with tape, put a tablet controller on there and called it a day, releasing it at a time when the equivalent performance devices were considered way over the hill and holding back game devs.
Odd. This never appeared to be an issue for the fans who hate the Wii U but see the Wii through rose-tinted glasses.

Performance is not everything but at the same time they did not get third parties onboard
EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Disney, THQ, 2K Sports, SEGA and Namco Bandai all released Wii U titles at launch, including exclusives like ZombiU (further proving their initial optimism for the platform). It didn't attract third parties afterwards, but that was only due to poor launch sales; it certainly did attract them at launch. It just couldn't hold onto them because people didn't buy the system.

did not have a good online service
Nintendo Network was perfectly functional, Miiverse was an interesting if flawed attempt at community integration and the online is really no worse than the Switch - if arguably better due to the fact it uses usernames, not friend codes. Same p2p protocols. And it's free!

had sub par emulator sections
The Wii U VC was actually quite good. DS games became a reality on the virtual console which couldn't have happened on Wii, and it had a total of 300 games spanning NES, SNES, N64, GBA, DS and TG-16. That does not include the Wii Shop Channel's selection either. Again, by comparison to Switch, they're teasing out NES games as part of a paid subscription, and that's the extent of the VC.

did little to court indie devs
They drastically improved their indie system as compared to WiiWare. As many developers have testified, the Wii U improved the financial side, made size restrictions a non-issue (WiiWare games had to be a paltry 40MB at max), improved their promotion by having an indie piece in Nintendo Directs, was "considerably easier" to develop for and developers say that "literally everything was easier". On top of that, indie games had a rabid audience on Wii U -- Shovel Knight, a pretty popular indie game, sold 27% of the total copies sold during the month of release on Wii U; for comparison, the PC version accounted for 37%. Even more incredible when you consider that 64% of the patrons of Shovel Knight's initial kickstarter said they wanted the game for PC, as opposed to just 15% saying Wii U.
The Wii U, despite its comparatively small install base, was so supportive of indie games that indie games sold nearly as well on Wii U as they did on Steam.

after talking a big talk about asymmetric play they gave us next to nothing (and what we did get was not a patch on what homebrew devs, PC games and general game theory had been doing for possibly decades in some instances)

I partially agree. The dual gamepad gameplay never became a reality, and some games copped out on the gamepad functionality for sure. But there were some genuinely inventive experiences from Runbow - an indie game, mind you - to Nintendo Land. The Runbow devs say that they exclusively targeted Wii U because the install base was such a big fan of indie games and because the controller setup was a "big strength".

and continued with the next to nothing when it came to first party titles so we barely even had the first party CPR that had been a staple of their home consoles since the N64.
Nintendo published 50 games for Wii U themselves, of which all but ~10 were in-house titles. On Metacritic, Breath of the Wild got 96/100, Mario 3D World got 93/100, Smash 4 got 92/100, Bayonetta 2 got 91/100, Wind Waker HD got 90/100, MK8 and Mario Maker got 88/100, Pikmin 3 got 87/100, Twilight Princess HD got 86/100, Xenoblade + NSMBU got 84/100, DKC Tropical Freeze got 83/100 and an experimental new IP, Splatoon, got 81/100. There was no shortage of good games and as Splatoon proved, they were willing to experiment with great success.

So to me, it really is such a wonder that people hold no great fondness for the Wii U before, during and after its life. The only reason I can think of is misinformation spread about the console or a lack of research.
 
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Odd. This never appeared to be an issue for the fans who hate the Wii U but see the Wii through rose-tinted glasses.


EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Disney, THQ, 2K Sports, SEGA and Namco Bandai all released Wii U titles at launch, including exclusives like ZombiU (further proving their initial optimism for the platform). It didn't attract third parties afterwards, but that was only due to poor launch sales; it certainly did attract them at launch. It just couldn't hold onto them because people didn't buy the system.


Nintendo Network was perfectly functional, Miiverse was an interesting if flawed attempt at community integration and the online is really no worse than the Switch - if arguably better due to the fact it uses usernames, not friend codes. Same p2p protocols. And it's free!


The Wii U VC was actually quite good. DS games became a reality on the virtual console which couldn't have happened on Wii, and it had a total of 300 games spanning NES, SNES, N64, GBA, DS and TG-16. That does not include the Wii Shop Channel's selection either. Again, by comparison to Switch, they're teasing out NES games as part of a paid subscription, and that's the extent of the VC.


They drastically improved their indie system as compared to WiiWare. As many developers have testified, the Wii U improved the financial side, made size restrictions a non-issue (WiiWare games had to be a paltry 40MB at max), improved their promotion by having an indie piece in Nintendo Directs, was "considerably easier" to develop for and developers say that "literally everything was easier". On top of that, indie games had a rabid audience on Wii U -- Shovel Knight, a pretty popular indie game, sold 27% of the total copies sold during the month of release on Wii U; for comparison, the PC version accounted for 37%. Even more incredible when you consider that 64% of the patrons of Shovel Knight's initial kickstarter said they wanted the game for PC, as opposed to just 15% saying Wii U.
The Wii U, despite its comparatively small install base, was so supportive of indie games that indie games sold nearly as well on Wii U as they did on Steam.



I partially agree. The dual gamepad gameplay never became a reality, and some games copped out on the gamepad functionality for sure. But there were some genuinely inventive experiences from Runbow - an indie game, mind you - to Nintendo Land. The Runbow devs say that they exclusively targeted Wii U because the install base was such a big fan of indie games and because the controller setup was a "big strength".


Nintendo published 50 games for Wii U themselves, of which all but ~10 were in-house titles. On Metacritic, Breath of the Wild got 96/100, Mario 3D World got 93/100, Smash 4 got 92/100, Bayonetta 2 got 91/100, Wind Waker HD got 90/100, MK8 and Mario Maker got 88/100, Pikmin 3 got 87/100, Twilight Princess HD got 86/100, Xenoblade + NSMBU got 84/100, DKC Tropical Freeze got 83/100 and an experimental new IP, Splatoon, got 81/100. There was no shortage of good games and as Splatoon proved, they were willing to experiment with great success.

So to me, it really is such a wonder that people hold no great fondness for the Wii U before, during and after its life. The only reason I can think of is misinformation spread about the console or a lack of research.
Underpowered and poorly designed was echoed throughout here from about the time we figured out what it contained.

Released at launch, were not incentivised to stick around afterwards though -- it was well within Nintendo's power to say "do you wanna?" whilst holding out literal or proverbial cash to make the Wii U a better deal.

It got a bit better eventually. For a very long time though it was beaten by the Wii, and in either case was far below what could have been done even if we account for lawyers meaning we can't do full ROM sets.

Some niceties for the indy devs. Were they enough though? The end results largely speak for themselves from where I sit. While "snapshot of the times like on PC" would have been nice such things ought to have worried the likes of android and ios. It is not like the XBLA and PSN stuff, or PS4 and xbone a bit later, provided too much competition either so they just got outclassed.

Ew Metacritic. So Breath of the wild was an end of system title, nice enough note to go out on (everything I have played on it says it is a middle of the road open world RPG, which is more than I expected from the early footage) but for this aspect of the discussion "too little, too late" (to say nothing of the delay to make it a Switch launch title). Mario 3d world... I would prefer to consider how many people are still talking about it now. Even Sunshine for as contentious as it was will probably have a better historical note. Wind waker was a gamecube game and plundered early during the Wii when it was lacking titles, can only reheat that sort of thing so many times and have it noted in a list like this. Smash if it counts much here is one of prime CPR examples to add to the list so we are maybe at 1 at this point. Kitchen sink Mario Kart you say, while they appeared to have a few more ideas and refinements most I spoke to saw it lacking somewhat but we will call it 2 on the list for a console lasting years. Mario Maker was an interesting idea for a commercial game (level editors are nothing terribly new) but the limitations of the editor meant basically nobody was happy there. Funding Bayonetta 2 was an interesting twist and while I did not mind the first title... there was a reason it needed some third party funding from Nintendo to get a sequel and for the money they dropped are you going to call it a good investment compared to what else could have been done? Call it three if you want. A rehash of a Wii title from when the Wii was riding high? Xenoblade yawnicles? New Super Mario Brothers on the DS was not bad but the lustre had long since faded and the year of gold... yeah (do we mention Rayman here?). The few fans of donkey kong country were probably pleased enough to see it (stripped down though it was for many), I would probably have stuck Yoshi’s Woolly World on the list instead but play it as you will. Lemmings paintball rides again... I did not get it myself but people starving for games seemed to like it well enough.
Curious that Hyrule Warriors is so far down that list. I thought many quite liked that one.
All this for a console lasting how many years? Even the N64 got games every couple of months outside the summer drought.
 

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Underpowered and poorly designed was echoed throughout here from about the time we figured out what it contained.

Released at launch, were not incentivised to stick around afterwards though -- it was well within Nintendo's power to say "do you wanna?" whilst holding out literal or proverbial cash to make the Wii U a better deal.

It got a bit better eventually. For a very long time though it was beaten by the Wii, and in either case was far below what could have been done even if we account for lawyers meaning we can't do full ROM sets.

Some niceties for the indy devs. Were they enough though? The end results largely speak for themselves from where I sit. While "snapshot of the times like on PC" would have been nice such things ought to have worried the likes of android and ios. It is not like the XBLA and PSN stuff, or PS4 and xbone a bit later, provided too much competition either so they just got outclassed.

Ew Metacritic. So Breath of the wild was an end of system title, nice enough note to go out on (everything I have played on it says it is a middle of the road open world RPG, which is more than I expected from the early footage) but for this aspect of the discussion "too little, too late" (to say nothing of the delay to make it a Switch launch title). Mario 3d world... I would prefer to consider how many people are still talking about it now. Even Sunshine for as contentious as it was will probably have a better historical note. Wind waker was a gamecube game and plundered early during the Wii when it was lacking titles, can only reheat that sort of thing so many times and have it noted in a list like this. Smash if it counts much here is one of prime CPR examples to add to the list so we are maybe at 1 at this point. Kitchen sink Mario Kart you say, while they appeared to have a few more ideas and refinements most I spoke to saw it lacking somewhat but we will call it 2 on the list for a console lasting years. Mario Maker was an interesting idea for a commercial game (level editors are nothing terribly new) but the limitations of the editor meant basically nobody was happy there. Funding Bayonetta 2 was an interesting twist and while I did not mind the first title... there was a reason it needed some third party funding from Nintendo to get a sequel and for the money they dropped are you going to call it a good investment compared to what else could have been done? Call it three if you want. A rehash of a Wii title from when the Wii was riding high? Xenoblade yawnicles? New Super Mario Brothers on the DS was not bad but the lustre had long since faded and the year of gold... yeah (do we mention Rayman here?). The few fans of donkey kong country were probably pleased enough to see it (stripped down though it was for many), I would probably have stuck Yoshi’s Woolly World on the list instead but play it as you will. Lemmings paintball rides again... I did not get it myself but people starving for games seemed to like it well enough.
Curious that Hyrule Warriors is so far down that list. I thought many quite liked that one.
All this for a console lasting how many years? Even the N64 got games every couple of months outside the summer drought.
Power should not have been an issue. Developers still worked with the Wii even though it was equally underpowered in its own context, and right now the Switch is closer to the Wii U than XB1/PS4, and gets a lot of attention. It's purely because the money is there.

Nintendo should have put more effort into second/third party funding, absolutely. They did fund Bayonetta, but needed more than that to entice people. There would have been less need if the console had sold better and I largely blame Nintendo's marketing for this one along with the name itself.

It couldn't have been beaten by the Wii if it could play all the Wii's VC titles, if we're taking it as a sum of parts. It took about two years to get the VC really rolling but need I remind you the Wii needed the same amount of time?

Nintendo really did improve their act from the WiiWare days and it was vastly more attractive than the Wii - this speaks for itself if you talk to any dev who worked on both. The pickings were perhaps because they still needed a dev kit and didn't take an approach like the XB1 where any console could become a dev kit, or the PS2/PS3's Linux (they did not allow for GPU access, but it would have been better than nothing to prototype their games before taking the leap and buying the dev kit).

Metacritic is an aggregate of many certified reviewers, I don't get the "ew" part. I can't think of any other unbiased way to settle it. It's clear that many of these games are not your type (and you seem determined to write the console off :P) but it's clear a lot of people like what they saw, which is a bit of a contradiction when you consider how many people love hating it here. I still agree with some of what you say here - BOTW is no 96/100! - but I think generally these scores are more reliable than any single site.
If I went through the N64 or Wii libraries with the same attitude as you have towards the Wii U, I'd have a field day calling almost everything kitchen sink CPR which aren't bad and do change a lot but they're still CPR so who cares. :P
At the very least, while the system had some expected ("CPR" titles, to use your very neutral phrase) games, they definitely did experiment especially because they figured they'd need to try something different to try and resuscitate sales. Captain Toad, Splatoon, Star Fox Guard, Wonderful 101, Nintendo Land.. nobody would have predicted these in advance and some were hit, some were miss, but it certainly wasn't for lack of trying. Splatoon, for example, went down incredibly well and garnered 1 million sales in under a month, and was a totally new, left field IP.
Edit: forgot to mention, regarding "who talks about XYZ now"... plenty of good games have escaped the public eye and as a GBAtemp writer yourself you should know that all too well
It's especially irrelevant for a console that shipped so few units.
 
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There is a difference between a lack of power and a horrible kludge that the Wii U represents (the powerpc was long in the tooth by the time the Wii arrived, and positively ancient by the time the Wii U arrived, said Wii U was not executed well from a systems architecture standpoint either (to say nothing of its online efforts when online was king of the gaming industry). If you want another example of this in gaming then most would look at the Sega Saturn, or how people did not lean much into the vaunted power of the PS3 cell processor in the end). Limit the polygons or amount of memory your devs can use (not a great video but makes some nice points along the way), don't make them learn an awfully designed system architecture to even start.

Ah the marketing thing. At least you are not blaming its entirely failure on it (so many times I have seen "if they just marketed it better" as if that would have solved it). If the Wii U had caught a fad (possibly like the Wii before it) and sold more then yeah a greater install base would have appeared more appealing for devs. While we are in magic fairy land though I can think of far better wishes.

So the Wii took time to get going? Your point.

On Wii U indie stuff. Those examples from other systems are things that could have been done here if throwing money at people was not an option, or not as big of one.


What is a certified reviewer and why should I care about them? The main reason for ew metacritic is they are rather selective about what they include (if nothing else see user scores vs critic scores -- surely they should match fairly well) and their conversions and totals are not so transparent, and such criticisms have been there for some time ( https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...hed_light_on_Metacritics_weighting_system.php being an older one compared to today but still far from the oldest). As a first pass it is not a bad thing to contemplate but as any kind of authoritative source... magic 8 ball is probably better.

Many of those games are my type (wander up to my game shelf and you will find many of those, and examples of the gameplay style going back to the N64 and PS1, possibly NES as well. My emulator selections will also represent many of those). I just don't think many of those are particularly good examples of the concept at hand (Wii U mario kart having long since run out of ideas from where I sat and proceeding to believe its own hype* before chucking in pointless extra mechanics that at best to nothing, as in everything but the kitchen sink).

As far as who talks about now then if you think Mario 3D World has been unfairly forgotten, or perhaps overlooked, by the gaming world I eagerly await your writeup on why that is, I will even stick it on the portal if you want. While something like Sunshine was a bit of a departure you will still easily find ardent fans, popular speedrunner scenes, people going back to contemplate what it did right and what it did wrong, why it is actually a great game (and I actually really like Sunshine, more than 64 even but that is more because I think Rare stomped all over Mario 64 with their later efforts). If you want a suggestion for the sequel article then is there a reason Skyward Sword has not featured in any of this discussion thus far?

So they tried a few things, and usually failed. If the world worked on effort alone... actually having some analysis of the coding for many of those games at points then not much effort was put into those. In fact I might note that list for the next time we have the innovation is not a synonym for good discussion. If they had greater numbers they could have afforded a few more misses but as they often lacked numbers and quality...

On splatoon. I really don't like the game. Had it appeared on any other console then I doubt it would have done a fraction as well. Choice link at this point would be https://towardsdatascience.com/predicting-hit-video-games-with-ml-1341bd9b86b0 . Along the same lines we also have the people doing things for failed devices -- I will have to find it but there was a nice example once where a dev team specialised in making cheapo, and admittedly far from all the effort put into making them, education games for failed platforms (like in this case I think it was the NOOK from Barnes & Noble that lost out to Amazon's Kindle) so the parents that guessed wrong one Christmas could extract some value.
I don't particularly consider it a left field IP either -- area denial/capture shooting games are nothing new or obscure at all (there is this little series called Battlefield). Things start getting a bit more contentious if we head into game histories -- part of the reason I reckon so many reacted so positively to BOTW was that they probably missed the about as good efforts on the PC/360/PS3** (stuff like Risen, Dragon's Dogma, Two Worlds 2, possibly Venetica, or indeed Just Cause 2 if I am allowed to widen the scope a bit) and we stuck with mediocre stuff like Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii as their main example of RPG "goodness".

*different issue there but I still feel Mario Kart is something dragging down the whole fun/wacky kart game genre -- most devs seem to want to copy mario kart rather than "what makes kart games fun? let's do that" where that line of logic is tried all the time in FPS, puzzle, RTS, RPG and everything else we might call a genre.

**I have wondered if we eventually see someone other than Nintendo and their ilk again do a reasonable fun 3d platformer (so not Yooka-Laylee) if something like that will happen there. We might have seen a milder version with something like Oceanhorn and Zelda clones.

I should also say CPR is not my phrase. I don't know who coined it but given that since the N64 then it is has mainly been Nintendo's first party efforts only just about keeping the systems alive and even vaguely relevant... would you really have bought a Nintendo home console and expected to if not play all the greatest games of the day then have a snapshot of gaming at that point in time?
 
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There is a difference between a lack of power and a horrible kludge that the Wii U represents (the powerpc was long in the tooth by the time the Wii arrived, and positively ancient by the time the Wii U arrived, said Wii U was not executed well from a systems architecture standpoint either (to say nothing of its online efforts when online was king of the gaming industry). If you want another example of this in gaming then most would look at the Sega Saturn, or how people did not lean much into the vaunted power of the PS3 cell processor in the end). Limit the polygons or amount of memory your devs can use (not a great video but makes some nice points along the way), don't make them learn an awfully designed system architecture to even start.

Ah the marketing thing. At least you are not blaming its entirely failure on it (so many times I have seen "if they just marketed it better" as if that would have solved it). If the Wii U had caught a fad (possibly like the Wii before it) and sold more then yeah a greater install base would have appeared more appealing for devs. While we are in magic fairy land though I can think of far better wishes.

So the Wii took time to get going? Your point.

On Wii U indie stuff. Those examples from other systems are things that could have been done here if throwing money at people was not an option, or not as big of one.


What is a certified reviewer and why should I care about them? The main reason for ew metacritic is they are rather selective about what they include (if nothing else see user scores vs critic scores -- surely they should match fairly well) and their conversions and totals are not so transparent, and such criticisms have been there for some time ( https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...hed_light_on_Metacritics_weighting_system.php being an older one compared to today but still far from the oldest). As a first pass it is not a bad thing to contemplate but as any kind of authoritative source... magic 8 ball is probably better.

Many of those games are my type (wander up to my game shelf and you will find many of those, and examples of the gameplay style going back to the N64 and PS1, possibly NES as well. My emulator selections will also represent many of those). I just don't think many of those are particularly good examples of the concept at hand (Wii U mario kart having long since run out of ideas from where I sat and proceeding to believe its own hype* before chucking in pointless extra mechanics that at best to nothing, as in everything but the kitchen sink).

As far as who talks about now then if you think Mario 3D World has been unfairly forgotten, or perhaps overlooked, by the gaming world I eagerly await your writeup on why that is, I will even stick it on the portal if you want. While something like Sunshine was a bit of a departure you will still easily find ardent fans, popular speedrunner scenes, people going back to contemplate what it did right and what it did wrong, why it is actually a great game (and I actually really like Sunshine, more than 64 even but that is more because I think Rare stomped all over Mario 64 with their later efforts). If you want a suggestion for the sequel article then is there a reason Skyward Sword has not featured in any of this discussion thus far?

So they tried a few things, and usually failed. If the world worked on effort alone... actually having some analysis of the coding for many of those games at points then not much effort was put into those. In fact I might note that list for the next time we have the innovation is not a synonym for good discussion. If they had greater numbers they could have afforded a few more misses but as they often lacked numbers and quality...

On splatoon. I really don't like the game. Had it appeared on any other console then I doubt it would have done a fraction as well. Choice link at this point would be https://towardsdatascience.com/predicting-hit-video-games-with-ml-1341bd9b86b0 . Along the same lines we also have the people doing things for failed devices -- I will have to find it but there was a nice example once where a dev team specialised in making cheapo, and admittedly far from all the effort put into making them, education games for failed platforms (like in this case I think it was the NOOK from Barnes & Noble that lost out to Amazon's Kindle) so the parents that guessed wrong one Christmas could extract some value.
I don't particularly consider it a left field IP either -- area denial/capture shooting games are nothing new or obscure at all (there is this little series called Battlefield). Things start getting a bit more contentious if we head into game histories -- part of the reason I reckon so many reacted so positively to BOTW was that they probably missed the about as good efforts on the PC/360/PS3** (stuff like Risen, Dragon's Dogma, Two Worlds 2, possibly Venetica, or indeed Just Cause 2 if I am allowed to widen the scope a bit) and we stuck with mediocre stuff like Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii as their main example of RPG "goodness".

*different issue there but I still feel Mario Kart is something dragging down the whole fun/wacky kart game genre -- most devs seem to want to copy mario kart rather than "what makes kart games fun? let's do that" where that line of logic is tried all the time in FPS, puzzle, RTS, RPG and everything else we might call a genre.

**I have wondered if we eventually see someone other than Nintendo and their ilk again do a reasonable fun 3d platformer (so not Yooka-Laylee) if something like that will happen there. We might have seen a milder version with something like Oceanhorn and Zelda clones.

I should also say CPR is not my phrase. I don't know who coined it but given that since the N64 then it is has mainly been Nintendo's first party efforts only just about keeping the systems alive and even vaguely relevant... would you really have bought a Nintendo home console and expected to if not play all the greatest games of the day then have a snapshot of gaming at that point in time?
The architecture is practically irrelevant when writing code that isn't assembly. It's all down to the same C/++ code as anywhere else, combined with Nintendo's libraries (which abstract the process) and APIs like OpenGL allow GPU control without thinking about the target platform at all.
Assembly is practically not found anymore in games unless you're on your knees for performance. Most games use a cross platform engine like Unreal or Unity anyway that does all the platform specific work for them. It's simply a matter of power, and the Wii U was behind without a doubt, but it's not far off the Switch which is still getting support. No reason the Wii U couldn't have been supported by the same token a few years before.
Regarding the examples, the Saturn was a time when assembly code was still definitely there in games and it was a nightmare to manipulate 8 processors at a machine level, and the PS3 didn't have much "untapped power" - it was very fast in specific, raw compute scenarios, but the feasibility of those numbers dropped dramatically when you consider that the coprocessors could not effectively "branch" code (no proper branch instructions), had to be babysat by the single PPC core and was further tied up with a long, in-order pipeline and small caches on the SPEs which made them only useful for specific, uncomplicated code.
Returning to the point, the Wii U's architecture was not an issue like you might expect and if anything it had many features that allowed it to punch above its weight (its pocket of eDRAM was obscenely fast, like a supercharged 360's - it may be as high as 563GB/s) if you wanted to tap its "architecture". Let's not forget that the GPU was very good at assisting the CPU to further negate the PowerPC problems. (The reason many third party devs didn't cop this at launch was due to poor documentation and time constraints, and then it was too late for most)
The point being that a lot of pre-PS3 comparisons are negated by the fact that advances and expanses in games as a whole have invalidated many of the arguments made (storage space and transfer speed are practically non issues now, and because of modern engines you can design a game and the engine does the platform specific work). Even in the PS2 era you had games (particularly in Japan) where engines were built from scratch for a game but that just never happens now.

The marketing was definitely an issue, with some advertising not making it clear that it was a separate console and not just an accessory to the Wii - accentuated by the fact that using Wii remotes and software was a big selling point. I don't know if it was the entire problem but it was a factor.

My point about the Wii, by the way, is that it's unfair to compare the two virtual consoles by saying the Wii U took two or three years to get going when it took the Wii two years to launch the service as well.

I was not aware of those issues surrounding metacritic. I simply believed that it was better than linking single review sites. In any case the general consensus between user and critics is the same in most of the aforementioned games.

The thing about Mario 3D World is that I don't feel it was the second coming of 64, but when people talk about it, it's never negative. Of my small sample of people who've talked about the game they've all quite enjoyed it. It didn't reinvent the wheel but did a lot of things right. I will happily take you up on the offer to put other stuff I write on the portal, though!

I mean, look -- if I'm being transparent, I'm not a fan of Captain Toad, Star Fox Guard or Splatoon. I enjoyed Splatoon for a while but it's just not really my thing if I was asked to play now. Sure, the world doesn't operate on effort, but to say Nintendo only produced CPR games for the Wii U is unfair because they certainly gambled with games like those - and Splatoon, at the very least, was a comparatively huge commercial success. (I also didn't mean to imply that Splatoon pioneered zone conquest gameplay! I've played Battlefield since BF2: MC on PS2/Xbox and I've enjoyed many a Battlefield since.)
I also believe BOTW is overrated as it has some fundamental issues (open world with either filler quests like locating based on pictures or emptiness, zero difficulty progression etc.) but that sounds like a separate discussion! In any case I agree. I didn't enjoy Xenoblade on Wii that much, because while I loved the environments and the characters were fine I just really couldn't gel with the combat compared to, say, The Last Story.

I think the Wii U offers a reasonable snapshot of its time, for better or worse. Games like Mario Party are dragged kicking and screaming into the current day with little interesting derivation on the original formula (with 10's Bowser mode being flat out bad) but Splatoon shows that Nintendo were still doing their best to try new things in at least some ways.

Side notes: I enjoy Mario Kart as a casual game with a few rounds of split screen but I haven't been knee deep in the series for years. I miss Jak X and other kart games :(
I also passionately believe that we need new racers of the same vein, because now you will find hundreds of children all playing Mario Kart Wii competitively (ie. the one way it was not meant to be played) to toxic degrees, with everyone choosing Funky Kong or Daisy because of slight internal stats that give you an edge. That's no fun. They're doing this because there are just no other kart racers around anymore.

Ultimately there's no way I'm going to change your opinions on any of these games but all I wanted to do by drawing your attention was to at least present an argument that there are a reasonable amount of games that some people may enjoy on Wii U.
I enjoy a few games better on my Wii U thanks to the gamepad functionality; I bought Splinter Cell Blacklist on PC, then on Wii U a few days later and ended up completing the Wii U version sooner, despite the benefits of PC (Maxed at 1080p, running @ 60FPS, mouse...) because the gamepad offered a different gameplay experience that I could simply get behind. It's not for everyone, but I'm not the only one to hold this opinion.

(Also, a little bit of your post sounded adversarial, and I wanted to make it clear that I'm only here to have a discussion, not defend anything to the bitter end or change anyone's mind)
 

FAST6191

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The architecture is practically irrelevant when writing code that isn't assembly. It's all down to the same C/++ code as anywhere else, combined with Nintendo's libraries (which abstract the process) and APIs like OpenGL allow GPU control without thinking about the target platform at all.
Assembly is practically not found anymore in games unless you're on your knees for performance. Most games use a cross platform engine like Unreal or Unity anyway that does all the platform specific work for them. It's simply a matter of power, and the Wii U was behind without a doubt, but it's not far off the Switch which is still getting support. No reason the Wii U couldn't have been supported by the same token a few years before.
Regarding the examples, the Saturn was a time when assembly code was still definitely there in games and it was a nightmare to manipulate 8 processors at a machine level, and the PS3 didn't have much "untapped power" - it was very fast in specific, raw compute scenarios, but the feasibility of those numbers dropped dramatically when you consider that the coprocessors could not effectively "branch" code (no proper branch instructions), had to be babysat by the single PPC core and was further tied up with a long, in-order pipeline and small caches on the SPEs which made them only useful for specific, uncomplicated code.
Returning to the point, the Wii U's architecture was not an issue like you might expect and if anything it had many features that allowed it to punch above its weight (its pocket of eDRAM was obscenely fast, like a supercharged 360's - it may be as high as 563GB/s) if you wanted to tap its "architecture". Let's not forget that the GPU was very good at assisting the CPU to further negate the PowerPC problems. (The reason many third party devs didn't cop this at launch was due to poor documentation and time constraints, and then it was too late for most)
The point being that a lot of pre-PS3 comparisons are negated by the fact that advances and expanses in games as a whole have invalidated many of the arguments made (storage space and transfer speed are practically non issues now, and because of modern engines you can design a game and the engine does the platform specific work). Even in the PS2 era you had games (particularly in Japan) where engines were built from scratch for a game but that just never happens now.

The marketing was definitely an issue, with some advertising not making it clear that it was a separate console and not just an accessory to the Wii - accentuated by the fact that using Wii remotes and software was a big selling point. I don't know if it was the entire problem but it was a factor.

My point about the Wii, by the way, is that it's unfair to compare the two virtual consoles by saying the Wii U took two or three years to get going when it took the Wii two years to launch the service as well.

I was not aware of those issues surrounding metacritic. I simply believed that it was better than linking single review sites. In any case the general consensus between user and critics is the same in most of the aforementioned games.

The thing about Mario 3D World is that I don't feel it was the second coming of 64, but when people talk about it, it's never negative. Of my small sample of people who've talked about the game they've all quite enjoyed it. It didn't reinvent the wheel but did a lot of things right. I will happily take you up on the offer to put other stuff I write on the portal, though!

I mean, look -- if I'm being transparent, I'm not a fan of Captain Toad, Star Fox Guard or Splatoon. I enjoyed Splatoon for a while but it's just not really my thing if I was asked to play now. Sure, the world doesn't operate on effort, but to say Nintendo only produced CPR games for the Wii U is unfair because they certainly gambled with games like those - and Splatoon, at the very least, was a comparatively huge commercial success. (I also didn't mean to imply that Splatoon pioneered zone conquest gameplay! I've played Battlefield since BF2: MC on PS2/Xbox and I've enjoyed many a Battlefield since.)
I also believe BOTW is overrated as it has some fundamental issues (open world with either filler quests like locating based on pictures or emptiness, zero difficulty progression etc.) but that sounds like a separate discussion! In any case I agree. I didn't enjoy Xenoblade on Wii that much, because while I loved the environments and the characters were fine I just really couldn't gel with the combat compared to, say, The Last Story.

I think the Wii U offers a reasonable snapshot of its time, for better or worse. Games like Mario Party are dragged kicking and screaming into the current day with little interesting derivation on the original formula (with 10's Bowser mode being flat out bad) but Splatoon shows that Nintendo were still doing their best to try new things in at least some ways.

Side notes: I enjoy Mario Kart as a casual game with a few rounds of split screen but I haven't been knee deep in the series for years. I miss Jak X and other kart games :(
I also passionately believe that we need new racers of the same vein, because now you will find hundreds of children all playing Mario Kart Wii competitively (ie. the one way it was not meant to be played) to toxic degrees, with everyone choosing Funky Kong or Daisy because of slight internal stats that give you an edge. That's no fun. They're doing this because there are just no other kart racers around anymore.

Ultimately there's no way I'm going to change your opinions on any of these games but all I wanted to do by drawing your attention was to at least present an argument that there are a reasonable amount of games that some people may enjoy on Wii U.
I enjoy a few games better on my Wii U thanks to the gamepad functionality; I bought Splinter Cell Blacklist on PC, then on Wii U a few days later and ended up completing the Wii U version sooner, despite the benefits of PC (Maxed at 1080p, running @ 60FPS, mouse...) because the gamepad offered a different gameplay experience that I could simply get behind. It's not for everyone, but I'm not the only one to hold this opinion.

(Also, a little bit of your post sounded adversarial, and I wanted to make it clear that I'm only here to have a discussion, not defend anything to the bitter end or change anyone's mind)


Assembly brings it right to the fore, and I would agree that makes comparisons with past devices more tricky, but a bad architecture (and the Wii U was bad) still presents loads of hoops to jump through, right up to the highest level languages, and even without it still means you have to consider some of what there is (do you have fast memory, fast float, slow transfer to memory, security meaning you lack certain tricks*....). Some of the issues might have been slightly dodged by leaning into the hardware but at that point we are back to a knowledge penalty for devs, in addition to the generally underpowered thing (if devs were complaining about the PS360 holding them back before the Wii U was even out and the WiiU was a slightly jazzed up version of that...).

*stuff like the 360 encrypted memory making dynamic recompilation hard on stock systems (hacked ones added an unencrypted window), or aspects of 3ds memory meaning javascript (and thus the browser) performance was always going to be abysmal.

If the marketing was as big an issue and accessory or not confusion was so prevalent then them not addressing it quite possibly was criminal (as in shareholders could go kick someone in the teeth). It is not like they did not have good marketing -- they managed to get the wii on a thousand news stories, talk shows and whatever else years before this so they knew what was up. Such confusion might have prevented the return of some of the wii sports crowd at best but if the world can survive clueless parents up until then then eh.

On virtual consoles. So there was no technical hurdle as it is not like their emulation was anything special and if they don't have generic in house emulators they could happily compile then they missed a trick -- they have been emulating things since the GBA and gamecube (or arguably N64 if you count pokemon stadium) and the world at large has been doing commercial emulation since the PS1. Assuming they were foolish enough/too cheap to not have a generic contract then they already had lines of communications for the devs/current IP owners of anything they didn't own (and their solely owned back catalogue is more than enough to seed a service), ones I am sure would have largely happily sent a confirm the contract back in record time if they reached out and said "same cut/terms as the Wii for your old game, how about it?". There should have been no regulatory/censorship issues (old games, not to mention if they are going out unchanged you might even be able to dodge or use an accelerated service). A downloads shop/framework should have been there from day -1 (and it is not like such a thing was being built from scratch and venturing into uncharted waters). What else is there?
Whatever stumbling blocks the Wii had (and the things above apply to the Wii too for the most part) on getting going should have no bearing on anything here, and there is no excuse other than indifference for the Wii U not to hit the ground running.

CPR does not mean bad games. It describes the process whereby Nintendo home consoles post SNES have only really maintained any great relevance by Nintendo's own efforts, which often times are quite good and make them hard to ignore and possibly do things that other consoles lack. I do maintain that most of Nintendo's efforts here were actually pretty poor or otherwise uninteresting or unfocused as these things go (you probably would be missing out by missing many N64, GC and Wii games... Wii U not so much, and especially not as time goes on), which has its own problems.
 

TheMrIron2

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Assembly brings it right to the fore, and I would agree that makes comparisons with past devices more tricky, but a bad architecture (and the Wii U was bad) still presents loads of hoops to jump through, right up to the highest level languages, and even without it still means you have to consider some of what there is (do you have fast memory, fast float, slow transfer to memory, security meaning you lack certain tricks*....). Some of the issues might have been slightly dodged by leaning into the hardware but at that point we are back to a knowledge penalty for devs, in addition to the generally underpowered thing (if devs were complaining about the PS360 holding them back before the Wii U was even out and the WiiU was a slightly jazzed up version of that...).

*stuff like the 360 encrypted memory making dynamic recompilation hard on stock systems (hacked ones added an unencrypted window), or aspects of 3ds memory meaning javascript (and thus the browser) performance was always going to be abysmal.

If the marketing was as big an issue and accessory or not confusion was so prevalent then them not addressing it quite possibly was criminal (as in shareholders could go kick someone in the teeth). It is not like they did not have good marketing -- they managed to get the wii on a thousand news stories, talk shows and whatever else years before this so they knew what was up. Such confusion might have prevented the return of some of the wii sports crowd at best but if the world can survive clueless parents up until then then eh.

On virtual consoles. So there was no technical hurdle as it is not like their emulation was anything special and if they don't have generic in house emulators they could happily compile then they missed a trick -- they have been emulating things since the GBA and gamecube (or arguably N64 if you count pokemon stadium) and the world at large has been doing commercial emulation since the PS1. Assuming they were foolish enough/too cheap to not have a generic contract then they already had lines of communications for the devs/current IP owners of anything they didn't own (and their solely owned back catalogue is more than enough to seed a service), ones I am sure would have largely happily sent a confirm the contract back in record time if they reached out and said "same cut/terms as the Wii for your old game, how about it?". There should have been no regulatory/censorship issues (old games, not to mention if they are going out unchanged you might even be able to dodge or use an accelerated service). A downloads shop/framework should have been there from day -1 (and it is not like such a thing was being built from scratch and venturing into uncharted waters). What else is there?
Whatever stumbling blocks the Wii had (and the things above apply to the Wii too for the most part) on getting going should have no bearing on anything here, and there is no excuse other than indifference for the Wii U not to hit the ground running.

CPR does not mean bad games. It describes the process whereby Nintendo home consoles post SNES have only really maintained any great relevance by Nintendo's own efforts, which often times are quite good and make them hard to ignore and possibly do things that other consoles lack. I do maintain that most of Nintendo's efforts here were actually pretty poor or otherwise uninteresting or unfocused as these things go (you probably would be missing out by missing many N64, GC and Wii games... Wii U not so much, and especially not as time goes on), which has its own problems.

I don't deny that devs need an understanding of their hardware even today, it's just that with modern cross-platform engines it's less of an issue for most people.

It is odd that Nintendo did so well with the Wii's marketing, yet many people still believe the Wii U is an accessory -- I remember talking to a group of people about it a few years ago and they were blown away when they heard it was a separate console. I suppose only the execs at Nintendo can really answer that.

A lot of the CPU-driven emulation code for the Wii's virtual console systems would have worked on the Wii U with minimal fuss. However, if hardware acceleration was required (which for consoles like N64/DS, it may have been, especially because they were experimenting with a high res mode for DS games that can still be activated by messing with configs) I'd wager it would require rewriting the GPU code. Then there's the obvious issues like catering to the gamepad and the new OS etc. Still, they had a head start in this regard, and in Nintendo's defence they had about 60 games across NES and SNES rolled out before the two year mark. I suppose it could have been better but at that rate given their all-hands-on-deck situation with the Wii U's misfired start, I'd also say it was fine for them to be focusing on other areas, if not a bit slow to roll out the other consoles.

I don't think we'll be able to tell with certainty how history will treat the Wii U, really. A lot of people do think the system's selection was quite good, as evidenced by the fact that the Wii U ports arriving on Switch are doing very well with good sales and fanfare. However it's a very subjective matter and I'd say it's the most divisive Nintendo console to date among Nintendo fans, because even for systems such as the N64/GC which had third party issues, at least most Nintendo fans are in agreement that they have a trove of good titles and are decent systems.
 

FAST6191

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The Wii U is an accessory concept always seems like an apologist line whenever I encounter it, though I am not sure how we could reasonably test it (also not sure Nintendo's in house data would shed any more light here), and even considering constraints and categorisations is fun -- what are Nintendo's main markets (kids, parents of said kids, hardcore nintendo fans, Wii sports/Wii fit fans for the unexpected new market as of a console generation earlier? What kind of numbers do they have and have they changed from more traditional pools? What is the perception of the Wii U among those individuals, assuming we can even get relevant data at this point)

All hands on deck to get the Wii U emulation setup going? Yeah if they had to have custom stuff done for the hard to emulate systems and games that might have had the game specific hacks approach taken. The largely CPU driven stuff library, especially if they contacted the IP holders for third party stuff, would have been more than enough to have a fairly popping service going on, and could probably be done with a fairly minimal team (if these Chinese companies can make hardware versions of emulator consoles in fairly short order... or indeed Nintendo with their little emulation boxes these last few years).

On the portendo Switch. I am going back to Switch has no games so anything that people can get...
 

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