Hardware Analog and magnets

MetoMeto

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"The triggers each have a tiny magnet attached to the end of the trigger arm. When the trigger is depressed, the magnet is pushed toward a sensor mounted on the controller's circuit board. Through the process of induction, the magnet creates resistance to the current passing through the sensor. On the bottom of the magnet is a layer of foam padding. Pushing harder on the trigger compresses the padding, which brings the magnet closer to the sensor. The closer the magnet is to the sensor, the more resistance is induced. This variable resistance makes the triggers pressure-sensitive.

The thumb pad also uses a magnet, along with four small sensors. The sensors are arranged like a compass, with one at each of the cardinal points (north, south, east, west). The base of the joystick is shaped like a ball, with tiny spokes radiating out. The ball sits in a socket above the sensors. Spikes on the socket fit between the spokes on the ball. This allows for an extraordinary amount of movement without letting the thumb pad twist out of alignment with the sensors. As the thumb pad is moved, the magnet in the base moves closer to one or two of the sensors, and farther from the others. The system monitors the changes in induction caused by the magnet's movement to calculate the position of the thumb pad.
"

This is the article where i quoted this text from: https://segaretro.org/Dreamcast_Controller



Now i find this pretty amazing tech, first because of it's simplicity and than because it has no mechanical parts or moving parts except stick it self.
It was always surprising to me that not all or more companies don't use this type of analog technology or develop it further to make it better, cause i know Dreamcast controller had its own issues, but those issues where just plastic ring being eaten away over time turning into dust thus making a stick being less precise or stuck a bit, making clicking sounds because f it, but seriously it was a easy fix and its not a common issue.
Ok it was, but not that common or a problem. It only happened to me once.

Anyway, i'm here to talk about magnets. This magnet technology is really great, it makes for way more precise controlls than phisical sliding of parts and theres no contact.

Now here's how SWITCH analog works:


Apart from Switch analog being so cheap looking, this is basically how almost all controllers work, or in similar way, but they all have to many components inside and moving parts that can get misaligned and broken.

The reason i post this here is because of all JoyCon drift issues and to tell the truth, only place i every heard about "drift" is emulators, but never bothered with the option. So i just heard about it, but only place i learned what it is is when switch came out.
Literally i never saw any, or had any drifting issues with any of my consoles and controllers (and i have and had a lot of them form many different systems).

Its really strange to me that, as i said, Nintendo did not took on this idea and developed it or any other company.


Its really interesting. Since 2000, when i opened my Dreamcast controller, i was always so amazed how it works and how amazingly simple and cool it was/is. Even to this day, all other controllers look primitive to me compared to this magnet system.
 
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Shadow#1

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"The triggers each have a tiny magnet attached to the end of the trigger arm. When the trigger is depressed, the magnet is pushed toward a sensor mounted on the controller's circuit board. Through the process of induction, the magnet creates resistance to the current passing through the sensor. On the bottom of the magnet is a layer of foam padding. Pushing harder on the trigger compresses the padding, which brings the magnet closer to the sensor. The closer the magnet is to the sensor, the more resistance is induced. This variable resistance makes the triggers pressure-sensitive.

The thumb pad also uses a magnet, along with four small sensors. The sensors are arranged like a compass, with one at each of the cardinal points (north, south, east, west). The base of the joystick is shaped like a ball, with tiny spokes radiating out. The ball sits in a socket above the sensors. Spikes on the socket fit between the spokes on the ball. This allows for an extraordinary amount of movement without letting the thumb pad twist out of alignment with the sensors. As the thumb pad is moved, the magnet in the base moves closer to one or two of the sensors, and farther from the others. The system monitors the changes in induction caused by the magnet's movement to calculate the position of the thumb pad."

This is the article where i quoted this text from: https://segaretro.org/Dreamcast_Controller



Now i find this pretty amazing tech, first because of it's simplicity and than because it has no mechanical parts or moving parts except stick it self.
It was always surprising to me that not all or more companies don't use this type of analog technology or develop it further to make it better, cause i know Dreamcast controller had its own issues, but those issues where just plastic ring being eaten away over time turning into dust thus making a stick being less precise or stuck a bit, making clicking sounds because f it, but seriously it was a easy fix and its not a common issue.
Ok it was, but not that common or a problem. It only happened to me once.

Anyway, i'm here to talk about magnets. This magnet technology is really great, it makes for way more precise controlls than phisical sliding of parts and theres no contact.

Now here's how SWITCH analog works:


Apart from Switch analog being so cheap looking, this is basically how almost all controllers work, or in similar way, but they all have to many components inside and moving parts that can get misaligned and broken.

The reason i post this here is because of all JoyCon drift issues and to tell the truth, only place i every heard about "drift" is emulators, but never bothered with the option. So i just heard about it, but only place i learned what it is is when switch came out.
Literally i never saw any, or had any drifting issues with any of my consoles and controllers (and i have and had a lot of them form many different systems).

Its really strange to me that, as i said, Nintendo did not took on this idea and developed it or any other company.


Its really interesting. Since 2000, when i opened my Dreamcast controller, i was always so amazed how it works and how amazingly simple and cool it was/is. Even to this day, all other controllers look primitive to me compared to this magnet system.
Most the analog trigger controllers out there use the magnet also that's how the DS/DSI/DSIXL/O3DS/O3DSXL/N3DS/N3DSXL/N2DSXL goes onto sleep mode because the speaker is used as the magnet
 

MetoMeto

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Most the analog trigger controllers out there use the magnet also that's how the DS/DSI/DSIXL/O3DS/O3DSXL/N3DS/N3DSXL/N2DSXL goes onto sleep mode because the speaker is used as the magnet
I wasn't talking about sleep magnets though or triggers but analog mostly...
Also i don't think most uses magnets in a controllers. What Controllers use magnets beside Dreamcast?
As i know PS2 doesnt, they use different tech to make pressure sensitive buttons.
GameCube uses slides with carbon coating where pads slide along the carbon line.

I'm not aware of any controller that uses magnets like Dreamcast does. If there is, please post pictures or video.
 

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I wasn't talking about sleep magnets though or triggers but analog mostly...
Also i don't think most uses magnets in a controllers. What Controllers use magnets beside Dreamcast?
As i know PS2 doesnt, they use different tech to make pressure sensitive buttons.
GameCube uses slides with carbon coating where pads slide along the carbon line.

I'm not aware of any controller that uses magnets like Dreamcast does. If there is, please post pictures or video.
360 xbone
 

MetoMeto

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That's not "most controllers" but OK. Also xbox 360 and xbox ONE doesnt have analog stick with magnets, which was my primary point, but i see what you meant.

Anyway, that's interesting even though it only has analog triggers, very similar design to Dreamcast, because i was always considering XBOX consoles to be SEGA Dreamcast reincarnations...i guess i was right, considering now that SEGA wants to brand XBOX series X into SEGA series X + controller design + magnets.
 
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Shadow#1

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That's not "most controllers" but OK. Also xbox 360 and xbox ONE doesnt have analog stick with magnets, which was my primary point, but i see what you meant.

Anyway, that's interesting even though it only has analog triggers, very similar design to Dreamcast, because i was always considering XBOX consoles to be SEGA Dreamcast reincarnations...i guess i was right, considering now that SEGA wants to brand XBOX series X into SEGA series X + controller design + magnets.
U linked to a video about dc analog triggers so that WAS THE ENTIRE POINT
 

MetoMeto

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U linked to a video about dc analog triggers so that WAS THE ENTIRE POINT
It's not a video or post just about Dreamcast analog triggers.
As for the video, it's actually called: "How a Dreamcast Controller Works".

But in short,
i was making parallels with Switch analog stick design and Dreamcast analog stick design, where i am impressed how a tech from 1999 is far superior than Switches analog stick tech 18 years later!

Dreamcast controller just seems so simple and yet so superior to others in that regard, and considering JoyCons are having drifting issue, the Dreamcast just seems even more superior because of it imo.
I guess what i ultimately wanted to say is that every controller analog stick should work the same way as Dreamcast do.
 
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TheCasualties

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This is quite interesting. Had no idea the DC sticks worked that way.

I'd guess ninty went for smaller instead of better. Maybe the parts for magnet analog are more expensive. Makes me wonder why Sony and Micro$oft went with the mechanical joystick instead of magnetic also.
 
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Armadillo

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360 doesn't have magnets for triggers, only the xbox one does.

One revision of the ds3 sticks (4pin) was a hall effect sensor iirc, rather than traditional potentiometers.
 

MetoMeto

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This is quite interesting. Had no idea the DC sticks worked that way.

I'd guess ninty went for smaller instead of better. Maybe the parts for magnet analog are more expensive. Makes me wonder why Sony and Micro$oft went with the mechanical joystick instead of magnetic also.
Nothing is more expensive than pair of new JoyCons bought 3 times in a month xD
Anyway...yup, it's quite interesting! I'm not sure about the pricing, but tbh it doesn't LOOKS like its that expensive.

What i'm puzzled by is the fact that this technology is not further developed and implemented as a standard. Idk what flaws does this has (if it has) when they did ton payed attention to it.

Similar to, but not the same, how WiiMote (imo really great way of playing certain games on home consoles) is not further developed but gimmicky HD rumble is implemented instead.
I mean i get it, they want sensation, something new, but some things just became standards because they are good...well this is good! So what gives!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

360 doesn't have magnets for triggers, only the xbox one does.

One revision of the ds3 sticks (4pin) was a hall effect sensor iirc, rather than traditional potentiometers.
I know DS2 also has some sort of analog without magnets.
i never really used it in games, but i remember it being a "big deal" at the time like "oh you can drive a car with it and the more you press the faster it goes!" LoL
But still, i never saw anything quite like magnets in a Dreamcast. That really amazed me, not game-play vise, but as a tech and how stunningly simple it is, yet so precise!
 

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