PS1/2 Can i play PAL burned PSX (homebrew) games on an NTSC-U/C running FreePSXBoot?

[PSXHeaven]

Have to bump this topic since there is additional information available now.

After getting a PM out of nowhere by a new member @PSXHeaven I looked into this once again. Packages for this candyk-psx are online once again and I finally succeeded in getting this to compile… after spending hours in dependency hell and a lot of trial and error.

I compiled it without adjusting the makefile accordingly, which means still no CD image for NTSC consoles. I should have made notes about the steps necessary to get it to compile – alas, I was about to smash my expensive computer to pieces and didn't have the patience for that.

Problems I remember:

• "Mipsel" cross compiler / candyk is installed to /opt (which makes sense) but missing int $PATH variable.
• Some header files, at least stubs-o32_soft.hwhere missing no matter what development packages I installed with Synaptic in my Ubuntu
  • Not sure if it was needed in the end since I was trying another version of Mipsel cross compiler than the one in candyk-psx last time
• Makefile didn't contain the path to candyk
• mkisofs is needed and was missing on my VM!? Maybe because I installed a minimal system at first??
• It is searching for file named isolicence.palfrom which I believe it is just the 16 first bytes from any PS1 disc (Europe in this case) – full 2352 bytes per sector.
  • This file was nowhere to be found, so I cropped it from a PS1 image (in this case the bin image given on the official download of the fromage project)
  • Somebody fearing legal problems because the file was missing?? I mean, this file is a small part of the complete CD image that is shared.

Finally it went through, compiled everything and created fromage.bin and fromage.cue which could be burned to CD-R normally. The homebrew game starts on a SCPH-9002 with PsNee and seemingly works (I have no clue how to use Minecraft and similar games), but it loads, I can move and create blocks → Somewhat works for me, albeit no sound despite being the full CD version (with music file present) and not the standalone exe

There is something seriously wrong with the image creation (as can be seen by burning the one supplied officially). Seems EDC/ECC is wrong (???) and the music file became inaccessible on the PC after burning. I didn't test emulators.

Tired now.

Would be nice if somebody else could add something of value here.

wow, this sound pretty nice to me.
Thank you.

Do you think it is now possible to add or change some things in the game or would you say leave it as it is?

Could you upload me your VM so that i maybe could work with it, if this is possible and the VM is not to big?
If anyone else is interessted in working on this project please send me a short message. I have no idea of programming in C, so anything i would do is just trial and error

I have some ideas for the game, nothing to big, just more blocks, a better block selection menu and maybe one or two blocks with function like doors, ladders or lamps

 

[Jayro]

What's the point of using PAL in this day and age, when NTSC is much better? Even in the days of CRT TVs, PAL was 50Hz vs NTSC's 60Hz, and even harder on the eyes as a result. PAL games are also slowed down like some sort of handicap or something which is just plain weird to me.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

Do you think it is now possible to add or change some things in the game or would you say leave it as it is?

You are asking an elephant: "How do I fly?"
I'm not a developer. I can read a bit of code, I programmed some small things in a clumsy manner, but understanding a homebrew game is beyond my skills. Never worked with main game loop, graphics or sound. Just console applications and once very basic GUI in Java.
I got some things to work eventually, but more like this picture

Spoiler

You have to know your own limits.

Could you upload me your VM so that i maybe could work with it, if this is possible and the VM is not to big?

That thing is a mess from countless retries and might contains personal data. I think we will find a way to make this portable, once I can concentrate again.
I've run into compilation errors when trying to build it with music/sound support. Default in makefile is the standalone version (despite music file being prepared and a complete CD image is created). Changing that results in cryptic error. Sadly unable to find out what and why.
============

It would be nice if somebody with more experience and development skills would look into this. So many questions about "voxel engines" and "Minecraft clones" for weak devices,... and nobody seems to have interest to look deep into such a thing.
As a proof of concept Fromage does look good on PS1. Probably has a lot of potential.

What's the point of using PAL in this day and age, when NTSC is much better?

That question should
A) Go to the developer who provided PAL release of this homebrew game only
B) Misses the point since the initial question was targeted towards providing and NTSC build
C) Doesn't help compiling for other adjustments

Spoiler: Off topic

Even in the days of CRT TVs, PAL was 50Hz vs NTSC's 60Hz, and even harder on the eyes as a result. PAL games are also slowed down like some sort of handicap or something which is just plain weird to me.

On a side note: NTSC is far from being the better system. Not without reason "Never The Same Color". Color problems (of course this was eventually solved in newer TVs), worse recording times on VHS, lower resolution.
Pro and contra for both systems. None of them is clearly superior.

The 50Hz framerate might(!) have been an issue on really old PAL TVs (just like the color adjustment problem on earlier NTSC). Surely not a problem on newer CRTs supporting PAL60 as well as 100Hz (maybe even 120Hz).
The slowdown and letterboxing in PAL games is just due to poor (or no) adjustment to different resolution and framerate. For example Zelda II - Adventure of Link shows no such things, so PAL adjustments existed as early as on NES. Most developers just omitted that step for PAL releases which make them often inferior.

 

[asiekierka]

candyk is effectively abandoned, and has been for years. However, I'm not sure when/if a successor will come - I'm more focused on WonderSwan homebrew for the time being.

I dusted off some unfinished work on updating the toolchain, and used it to prepare and upload an NTSC-U build to the website.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

candyk is effectively abandoned, and has been for years. However, I'm not sure when/if a successor will come - I'm more focused on WonderSwan homebrew for the time being.

I dusted off some unfinished work on updating the toolchain, and used it to prepare and upload an NTSC-U build to the website.

That is awesome. Thank you for the effort!
Sadly I still can't get it to compile myself.
=====

With the previous version I get this error when trying the non-standalone version

/tmp/boot.elf.NClpaE.ltrans0.ltrans.o: in function `main':
(.text.startup+0x870): undefined reference to `SPU_CNT_TRANSFER_MODE'
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [Makefile:139: obj/boot.elf]
==========

And after cloning the repo it doesn't compile regardless of standalone or full

undefined symbol `__i_vfprintf' referenced in expression
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [Makefile:156: obj/boot.elf]



I must be doing something wrong. What do I have to do to set it up correctly.

 

[asiekierka]

That is awesome. Thank you for the effort!
Sadly I still can't get it to compile myself.
=====

With the previous version I get this error when trying the non-standalone version

/tmp/boot.elf.NClpaE.ltrans0.ltrans.o: in function `main':
(.text.startup+0x870): undefined reference to `SPU_CNT_TRANSFER_MODE'
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [Makefile:139: obj/boot.elf]
==========

And after cloning the repo it doesn't compile regardless of standalone or full

undefined symbol `__i_vfprintf' referenced in expression
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [Makefile:156: obj/boot.elf]



I must be doing something wrong. What do I have to do to set it up correctly.

The error in the previous version is a mismatch between the version of candyk expected by the codebase and the version of candyk provided.

As for the current version, you're not using the right compiler - 0.94 comes from an experiment of mine where I migrated to a GCC 13 + picolibc based MIPS cross-compiler shipped as part of the Wonderful toolchain's repository tree (package group toolchain-gcc-mipsel-elf); as such, it expects internal libc symbols which would not be shipped in a newlib-based cross-compiler like what candyk had (or what essentially every Linux distro with a MIPS cross-compiler provides).

Apologies for everything being so complicated; however, as I currently do not maintain nor support any toolchain for the PS1, I also do not have more user-friendly options available at this time.

 

[_FN10_]

They have added NTSC versions on the website! i need to try them... (Looks like they updated it and added NTSC CD images)

i never checked it since 0.93

 

[KleinesSinchen]

They have added NTSC versions on the website! i need to try them... (Looks like they updated it and added NTSC CD images)i never checked it since 0.93

Yes, these got added yesterday.

I'm still unable to compile it myself. I'll start with a new, additional Ubuntu VM. Last thing I tried was compiling the v0.93 again, it went through, but the resulting image doesn't work.

Feeling defeated right now. This project has so much potential.

Apologies for everything being so complicated; however, as I currently do not maintain nor support any toolchain for the PS1, I also do not have more user-friendly options available at this time.

No need to apologize. If you have time and *want* to do it at some point, a little "noob-friendly" documentation would be nice to have. What to download? Where to put it?
Right now I'm seeing little birds and stars flying around me in circle… from trying to understand the various cross compilers, toolchains, packages…

Again, fromage is impressive and has much potential – it would be nice if there was the possibility for people with lower skill level (like myself) to play around with the codebase and try a few things.

 

[PSXHeaven]

this is great @asiekierka

I just ask you, because you have the tools and everything just up and running.
Would you please add some more stuff, if i create a small list with wishes? Realy nothing big.


Its just some new Blocks (i would have a look for free textuers or find someone who creates them), just some more categories or tabs in the Block selection menu, ladders, stairs, maybe a more useable water flowing system like in Minecraft and maybe some light blocks. I think for you its not that big deal.

 

[asiekierka]

No need to apologize. If you have time and *want* to do it at some point, a little "noob-friendly" documentation would be nice to have. What to download? Where to put it?
Right now I'm seeing little birds and stars flying around me in circle… from trying to understand the various cross compilers, toolchains, packages…

Again, fromage is impressive and has much potential – it would be nice if there was the possibility for people with lower skill level (like myself) to play around with the codebase and try a few things.

I'd rather do it right than provide instructions on how to hack together a setup that happens to work for now but won't work in a few months... Anyhow; I've already provided instructions on how to install my toolchain (the link to the website, which has installation instructions, plus the package group you need to install); from there, you'll need to:

1. Add /opt/wonderful/toolchain/gcc-mipsel-elf/bin to PATH,
2. Clone candyk-psx (linked below) and fromage in such a way that they're subdirectories of the same parent directory,
3. Build the candyk-psx repository (should work fine enough; requires ffmpeg and possibly some other things to be installed),
4. Provide an isolicence.dat file matching your target region (I can't help you with that), and place it in fromage's source code tree's directory,
5. Build fromage itself, using a command like "make TYPE=exe REGION=europe VIDEO_WIDTH=640" - TYPE takes exe or iso, REGION takes europe or usa, VIDEO_WIDTH takes 640 or 320. (requires Python 3 with Pillow, sox, and possibly other things I forgot)

This should do the trick. No promises it'll work a few months from now, though.

I just ask you, because you have the tools and everything just up and running.
Would you please add some more stuff, if i create a small list with wishes? Realy nothing big.

Its just some new Blocks (i would have a look for free textuers or find someone who creates them), just some more categories or tabs in the Block selection menu, ladders, stairs, maybe a more useable water flowing system like in Minecraft and maybe some light blocks. I think for you its not that big deal.

Fromage is, to me, a finished project and I have no intent on continuing its development at this time. While I'd like to continue porting it if I ever make a more polished PS1 toolchain (it's a good demo!) and I might add some minor features then, I have no interest in maintaining it further.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

I'd rather do it right than provide instructions on how to hack together a setup that happens to work for now but won't work in a few months... Anyhow; I've already provided instructions on how to install my toolchain (the link to the website, which has installation instructions, plus the package group you need to install); from there, you'll need to:

1. Add /opt/wonderful/toolchain/gcc-mipsel-elf/bin to PATH,
2. Clone candyk-psx (linked below) and fromage in such a way that they're subdirectories of the same parent directory,
3. Build the candyk-psx repository (should work fine enough; requires ffmpeg and possibly some other things to be installed),
4. Provide an isolicence.dat file matching your target region (I can't help you with that), and place it in fromage's source code tree's directory,
5. Build fromage itself, using a command like "make TYPE=exe REGION=europe VIDEO_WIDTH=640" - TYPE takes exe or iso, REGION takes europe or usa, VIDEO_WIDTH takes 640 or 320. (requires Python 3 with Pillow, sox, and possibly other things I forgot)

This should do the trick. No promises it'll work a few months from now, though.

Thank you.
I'll try my best in a new VM keeping the partially working one as it is.
I've not understood the problem with isolicense.dat – why should sharing it be a (legal) problem when sharing the full CD image is not? Well, not a big deal to extract it.

Fromage is, to me, a finished project and I have no intent on continuing its development at this time. While I'd like to continue porting it if I ever make a more polished PS1 toolchain (it's a good demo!) and I might add some minor features then, I have no interest in maintaining it further.

Easy enough to understand. This is why it would be nice to have a working setup for compilation, so somebody else can continue on the basis.

 

[PSXHeaven]

Fromage is, to me, a finished project and I have no intent on continuing its development at this time. While I'd like to continue porting it if I ever make a more polished PS1 toolchain (it's a good demo!) and I might add some minor features then, I have no interest in maintaining it further.

Sad to hear that, but understandable. But maybe someone else here is skilled enough to work on the project. There is so much potential in this lovely project