Gaming Competitive Kid Icarus Uprising Discord

[Eddypikachu]

Hey everyone! I made a server on Discord hoping to get more people interested in competitive Kid Icarus Uprising, I don't know many people that still play this game but I still find enjoyment playing it every now and then and hopefully I can find others that do too. For competitive ruleset I was thinking we should all be using Value 100 weapons because the weapon modifiers like shot homing+4 can maket things reeaaally broken... so making everyone just use the value 100 weapons balances things out a lot more (Also in the discord there's a save file I made that has all 108 unique weapons in their Value 100 form so you don't have to grind for them or anything just restore the save file provided onto your game). The 58 unique powers available are still there to make your kits as unique to your playstyle as possible, there's less than 4 banned powers which are just the ones that are dumb OP or just boring to fight against such as warp, brief invincibility, and celestial fireworks (all of which are just panic buttons that give you invincibility).
Light vs Dark is a great mode to play on, hopefully you can join or get other people interested? Join the discord below and we can start playing and maybe discuss competitive rulesets and start making tournaments

https://discord.gg/dZYFUQ8

 

[Master Knight DH]

I'm going to go into a rule I'm proposing for certain Powers:

-For each Power that is Restricted, the player must carry Tribute, and additionally reveal both the Restricted Power and the Tribute, as well as the involved Powers' Levels, to the opponent before a given match starts. Tribute is defined as fully unrestricted Powers that at involved Levels are worth at least 5 spaces in sum. (IE Rocket Jump at L2 or above, which clears the 5 space cost, is sufficing Tribute for one Restricted Power, but at L1 where it costs 4 spaces, another Power would be needed.) The same Power(s) may not be used as Tribute for multiple Restricted Powers, regardless of costs.

This would be nothing ridiculous against more legitimate users of Restricted Power(s), as having Tributes for them wouldn't be ridiculous if they're not spammed--in fact, 3 Restricted Powers averaging 7 spaces (which is already a definite amount!) could still have Tributes for the rest of the grid. The whole rule is more to make sure that somebody who tries to exploit Restricted Powers has to reveal exact shapes on their Power Grid. What would happen would be as follows:
-With the 5 space cost minimum for the Tribute, nobody would be able to use a low cost Power for a simple decoy, before anybody could think to just Tribute Powers like Effect Recovery L1.
-Having the Levels be forced to be revealed would mean that the chosen trade-offs based on Levels would be indicated on the spot. Higher Levels are guaranteed to have bigger problems on the Power Grid, so that would reveal more issues.
-Tributing a Power that would already be used early into the match can still have reaching effects. For example, Leveled Slip Shot will immediately rule out Powers such as Super Speed or Bumblebee that could try to deter usage of Powers such as Black Hole; anything else requiring a full line can expect to deal with active defilade interaction; and Energy Charge will suffocate (if not outright use) 1 center space per Level. Of course, Tributing a panic button Power such as Playing Dead would still more easily provide added knowledge of the Power Grid setup.


I'm going to explain my thoughts on each of the candidates I propose for review toward Restricting or even Banning, at the very least for base 1V1:
Jump Glide - 4 spaces is quite inexpensive for a 5 charge panic button. Even if 5 charges required Jump Glide being at L4, it still would be cost-effective against the 7 space requirement. Tactically, there's the possibility of baiting it before starting the more active chase, but depending on how things go with it, it can still potentially stall, which alone guarantees a spot in Restricted. It should also be noted that L1 Jump Glide fits, though barely, into Slip Shot/Energy Charge/Playing Dead, and is the only tag protection Power outside Playing Dead that can do so; Jump Glide being Restricted would force an inconvenient reveal, which would hinder abuse by Compact Arm Neutral Rapid. (And don't ask me what the developers were thinking with Jump Glide's between Level balance. The only benefit for increasing the Level beyond shape convenience is per death regen rate. Spoilers: with a V100 weapon, it sucks.)
Angelic Missile - the missile state provides complete invulnerability, although the fallen state is forced with no chance for an Ukemi attempt. Now while Level 1 is above the 3 spaces per charge value, the low space difference between Levels makes this a different story with the other Levels. Level 4 isn't below 2.5 spaces per charge, but the big issue with unchecked panic button Powers is when determining their Level conclusively without too much effort requires smoking out other Powers or wading through all of the charges first. Since Angelic Missile doesn't require a full line like Super Speed does, a review is definitely in order, although Restricted would most likely do.
Warp - oh boy. Same shenanigans as Angelic Missile, but sacrifices offensive capability for some potentially OTT defenses. While max Level Warp costs more than max Level Angelic Missile (11 spaces to AM4's 10), Warp more than makes up for it by having its minimum Level space cost be lower, in addition to being usable at literally any moment other than during a ridiculously short cooldown period for itself, and then guaranteeing escape from close range. I do have my suspicions about the fallen state that Angelic Missile allows the user to go into, but you can at least set up read traps against the fallen state. Warp by contrast is THE go-to panic button against close range with too little drawback to not have it at least be Restricted. Though I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Warp being in Restricted for having decent shape problems at higher Levels, damaging its abuse capability with the Slip Shot/Energy Charge combination.
Petrify Attack - this is more a better safe than sorry case than anything, but I don't think everybody should have to pack Effect Recovery just to avoid being immobilized outright after taking nearly 1/4 of their health and turned into a DPS attack punching bag. Best comparison would be with Eggplant Attack. Mercifully, at least the Power's shapes have a mnemonic of being 2x(2+L) rectangles, though since the minimal charges is at 2, that wouldn't be so easy to make use of.
Freeze Attack - this could go anywhere, but I personally expect Restricted would be best for this, because the Freeze status doesn't even have Mercy Defense like the Petrify status does. Level 1 is at least a 3x3 square, so that Level doesn't seem too bad. Level 2 is where all Underworld breaks loose, being the Chunky Backwards L so it needs only 1 more space, but it no longer outright requires a center space--for context, the Therapy Chair, used by Tempura Attack Level 1, is the same shape except the very corner is missing, which is too rarely a useful enough advantage at all. Level 3 wouldn't be too bad, but I wouldn't be surprised if Energy Charge 2/Bumblebee 3/Freeze Attack 3 or something even more troublesome could cause a surplus of problems. Oh, and wouldn't you know it, Freeze Attack 3 has the same shape as Tempura Attack 3.
Darkness - inexpensive casting animation intangibility without even cooldown between charges. Mercifully, it does little else unique beyond a successful "hit" messing with the opponent's vision, but the versatility permitted by the low cooldown has me expect this to go into Restricted.
Brief Invincibility - there is no way a cost-effective panic button with literally no viable response other than to wait it out while the opponent can still play normally shouldn't be at least Restricted. Having it Restricted would at least get past the different shapes nonsense, but I could see it stay Banned if its abuses transcend that easily enough.
Trade-Off - let me make this clear first and foremost, that Trade-Off virtually would have actually sound weaknesses, namely requiring a full row and column while knocking the user's HP down to minimum. Mega Laser can clip off that remaining HP, and Bumblebee definitely won't be around to clog that idea. Now some people do like pairing Trade-Off with Pisces Heal, but that in and of itself has the problem of eating through a significant chunk of the effective 5x5 area and even requiring its center space. So I wouldn't consider having Trade-Off as a candidate for Restricted, if not for one problem: Level 4 provides a +50% movement boost. Considering how Trade-Off's space differences between levels is a meager 1 per Level, let alone when the higher Level also adds to duration, this can make Trade-Off into a polarizing monster of a Power that can needlessly force people to use something like Playing Dead. This should be looked into with a moderate Claws or Arm weapon to see if Trade-Off can be thwarted without committing too much of the Power Grid to countering it. Really, Trade-Off could go anywhere all things considered.
Celestial Fireworks - the absolutely absurd number of charges for having casting animation intangibility rules out any possibility of not having this at least Restricted and even makes an immediate ban on the spot so tempting. There is at least a cooldown in usage, though it's low, but I think the only reason it ever gets so glaringly capable of stalling is because it allows for Evasion+ abuse to start up; otherwise, a dodge move follow-up pretty much just has its own standard intangibility frame move count, so reading that off might be able to allow interception. Of course, if that fails to be enough, I will not be opposed to outright banning.

Just to clarify on some Powers people may ask about:
Super Speed - while Level 4 Super Speed costs 1 less space than Level 4 Angelic Missile, Super Speed's unconditional full line requirement immediately prevents leveled Slip Shot from fitting in. This guarantees heightened ease in burning down higher level Super Speed's charges.
Slip Shot - if this thing is at L1, Slip Shot's ONE available charge can be walled and rendered into complete garbage--it's never going to outpace Super Armor in cost-effectiveness. L2+ provides multiple charges, but ends up costing a full row and column, which has the problem of immediately locking out, most notably, Super Speed, Bumblebee, Virus, Trade-Off, Aries Armor, and leveled Autoreticle; and even anything else is stuck with a 5x5 area, with one particular noteworthy aspect of the involved drawback being incapable of using multiple Powers that each require a center space. As a result, Slip Shot can be put under active pressure to effect. (The reason it can even be considered busted online is because of problems like Shot Range+, which doesn't even allow this idea to work to begin with.)
Libra Sponge - 12 space minimum for this one-shot, useless if the opponent either doesn't deal damage or just dodges counterattacks, and doesn't even reduce damage taken.
Interference - while Interference has its spaces per charge value never above 1.5, it's not a hard counter to Super Speed tagging, and furthermore, recasting for the casting animation intangibility requires waiting for the beacon to reach its expiration time of a whopping 15 seconds and doing little to handle basic combat ability. The end result is a massive potential opening that could be used to force a second Power out to guard against tagging ability.
Aries Armor - full row and column requirement. Even if Slip Shot could fit to allow for obnoxiously durable range combat ability, synergy would still be low enough because all that is provided by Aries Armor is a, high as it is, damage cut--this is exploited in combination with Libra Sponge, but if the 2 Powers together are stalled out, there won't be much too much left on the grid.
Lightweight - STILL BANNED. I'd consider wanting this on Restricted despite the grossly disproportionate movement capability, but it PROVIDES LAG ARMOR. Goes without saying this needs to go anyway.
Bumblebee - I've actually punished the full line cost even when this thing has been on Evasion+ sets, and even capitalized upon the forced clockwise movement of the auto-dodging to knock off the protected Energy Charge. Without Evasion+ to even provide abuses, Bumblebee's blind spots are going to be even more glaring.
Playing Dead - theoretically, Playing Dead could pull 32 seconds of stalling, but it's to the user's detriment, as Playing Dead has a significant duration difference between Levels. Level 2 also has to use 2 center spaces, so there's the definite possibility that it can be ruled out, and even Level 1 already eats through 5 spaces per charge, so the whole Power is at risk of burnout as it is.
Pisces Heal - I'd have to lab the restoration ability again for a definitive answer, but I seem to recall the HP restored from taking a fatal blow with PH active was 40 + 20L on multiplayer. (It's not dependent on the damage of the would-be finishing hit; that just get neutralized.) Obviously, Pisces Heal can act as a straight up 1-Up of sorts, but even with the 2 charges, the drawback is when PH unconditionally require a center space, so it can't fit with Slip Shot/Energy Charge regardless of Levels. This means more casual attacking will answer PH due to being less punishable.
Random - STILL BANNED. Goes without saying. Random Effect, however, won't be banned because the statuses still require landing hits--the user can even roll Freeze Attack and that would still be acceptable when they have a chance of rolling something lousy.

The rule idea is, of course, tentative.

 

[Eddypikachu]

Meanwhile I just want to keep things simple and just ban 4-5 powers and let people use anything else they want and you wouldn't have to disclose what youre using, while only using 100 value weapons. But that's why we have a discord, come in and let's try to come up with a balanced rule set for multiplayer kid icarus uprising that everyone will enjoy while keeping things balanced

 

[Master Knight DH]

Like I say, the rule would be in the works. I'd be hoping it would go over well. I'm perfectly aware that Warp 4/Brief Invincibility 3/Super Speed 4 can definitely fit on the same Power Grid while having a whopping 14 charges for tag protection--it's a guarantee that Warp, Brief Invincibility, and/or Celestial Fireworks (which at L2 has the same shape as Brief Invincibility L3) should stay banned, but considering options are already limited on that combination and would lead to the player needing to reveal their ENTIRE grid under the rule, you can see how the rule can be used to stagger abuses with less need for outright banning.


As for those curious about what happens with weapon modifiers, I made a 7000 word blog post some 5 years back about how they prove to be broken:
(Would post a link here, but the forum won't let me.)
Some of the information is outdated, but the general gist is how too many weapon modifiers are capable of abuses, with Evasion+, Shot Range+, and the Speed+ mods at the worst of it. If you aren't convinced, then here's a picture that speaks for itself:
(Insert image of a Flintlock Staff with 5 Range Stars, Health +4, Walking Speed +4, Evasion +4, Neutral Shot +4, In Peril Auto Dodge +3, Dash Rapid -2; clocking in at V299.)
And if you think you can point out that I had won that match anyway, literally the *ONLY* reason I had won that match was because BAD used Bumblebee and the game didn't roll some &^@%$#* open stage like Lava Basin. Even then, I still had to resort to attacking his teammates. The pic still shows min-maxing in action, and BTW, I should point out that the Power regen rates for respawning are based off of precisely V300 weapons. Here's the general formula for those interested, by the way:
Base Regen x (Value - (300 - Value) / 50) / 300 (Value capped at 300 for this formula's purposes)
The reason why the standard of V300 doesn't do anything is because Base Regen values for every Power not named Celestial Fireworks results in mixed numbers for charges recovered per death at V300, which means that the difference between V299 and V300 only really matters after multiple deaths. In fact, the only difference between V274 and V300 for a single death of Power regen is Sky Jump L4 recovering 1 extra charge, and with how inexpensive weapon modifiers get for their abuses, setting the TLG to 1350 or 2700 with the handicap modifiers adjusted accordingly to call out that particular abuse range of weapon Values would still only do so much to curb problems.

I should make some new points about some of the weapon modifiers:
-My stance on Evasion+ and Shot Range+ is still unchanged: they're both beyond broken. I can also mention that Spin Shot Forward Shots would become easier without any counter play with Shot Range+, which would further reduce counter play. That's on top of how Shot Range+ already allows abuses with mid-range looping, broken range balancing, and suddenly literally unavoidable attacks at ranges where non-Shot Range+ variants of the same weapon types wouldn't even reach. Evasion+, meanwhile, chains into itself with the abuses. You might notice that I am for reviewing Celestial Fireworks first before sticking with any official banning, despite it being capable of abuses in its own right; this is because while the casting animation does have surplus intangibility, none of the followup dodge moves do without Evasion+, which changes that and thus is what allows Celestial Fireworks to be so busted with the mods vacuum in the first place. Evasion+ is simply that broken by mutating the game as much as it does.
-The Speed+ mods are still absolutely overpowered, but Walking Speed+ is the most broken of them, and math alone shows as much. Less than 20 Value to allow for walking about as fast as running is ridiculous, especially when the speed difference means a weapon with the approximately same base mobility without (Walking) Speed+ has to waste stamina to move as fast. The Speed+ mods in general reduce reason to care about the stamina system by more than they should, but Walking Speed+ is the most broken about it.
-And of course, attack boosts are so stupidly powerful in general that they end up being the big bad explanation for why Speed- drops Value by so little despite the mobility penalty being so stiff that freaking Babel Club can feel it. One notable example, tying in with Walking Speed+ abuses, is how Neutral Shot+ effectively increases the Neutral Shot's base damage output by 42% at least, just assuming 6 Range Stars to account for law of diminishing, which guarantees making Forward Shot damage redundant beyond absolutely niche shot cancellation ability. Really, though, effective 7 Stars with Energy Charge active has the KOing base damage requirement reduced all the way down to 41, where lone Energy Charge would have it at about 123. That's a big difference, particularly because Energy Charge becomes MUCH easier to maintain. I'd have to dig up other examples of busted math besides how EC 3HKO is much more tolerable to fight off than EC 2HKO through superlative defensive power mods, but suffice to say that there's simply too many abuses that the boosts are capable of.
-Also adding to the point against weapon modifiers adding to gameplay? You literally don't have to do ANY inputs for using them whatsoever, beyond movement or basic attacking of course. Powers, meanwhile, require usage of additional buttons or the Power Slider. Safe to say which is more automatic and it's definitely not Powers.

This should make it clear why weapon modifiers are worth banning as a whole, rather than just the particularly unfair ones that simply just stand out in an already big mess. It would also save trouble going through what's legal, preempting hacked weapons pulling abuses such as spammed Negative Mods.

 

[Eddypikachu]

If you're looking for a TL;DR for the previous comment: Weapon modifiers are broken!
Come join the discord to play with us using 100 value weapons

 

[Eddypikachu]

I made a document that has the competitive ruleset I feel like will work the best for Light vs Dark, it's short and sweet. Any feedback is appreciated!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hUSpiu_Z5QSu-fpPt4EvjrfYysKgYJA_kbXX5wZ5X6c/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Master Knight DH]

I should provide my thoughts:

Stage legality in general - I'd be for also involving a counterpick system. Twilight Stratosphere for example shows signs of idiocy without active tactical defilade to blunt something like Libra Sponge+Aries Armor Magnus Club. Rail Temple is additionally guaranteed to go on counterpick too.
Lava Basin ban - agreed with banning the stage, though more because this stage has asinine levels of perimeter camping despite the ~40m radius. The abyss feature is plentiful to be sure, but I'm still more concerned with the ridiculous amount of escape routes provided to a perimeter camper compared to potential chase routes.
Windy Wasteland ban - another easy ban. Adding to it, terrain cover is laughably low, further aggravating approach ability, and the 2 niche areas allows for stalling either in 1V1 or by the angel.
Arenas ban - yep, what more needs to be said than the irony that we're effectively banning Final Destination, which was camper-friendly in its own right in Smash Bros.
General weapon/Power bans - I'm for involving the benefit of the doubt with suspect tests, with the exception of Lightweight and Random--those 2 definitely need to be banned, of course--but nothing you listed would surprise me in the least about failure to prove to have sufficient weaknesses compared to what they already have. Though the other Powers you suggest do bring up the general reasons I would suggest the Restriction system I proposed above...
Gemini Orbitars - Shot Range+ is condemned partly for borderline forcing people to carry things like Super Armor to fight off the Predator Cannon's suddenly unavoidable backshot. I wouldn't be surprised by Gemini Orbitars flowcharting Quick Charge+Homing Boost+Slip Shot to do absurd amounts of damage and make distance closure a nightmare. On that subject, I could see Quick Charge need to get suspect tested in and of itself, but even without that, whether Gemini Orbitars should be left alone depends on how well Shot Cancel ability works in holding off the shots. Probably not well enough to avert a ban. In fact, I think Doom Cannon similarly needs to be addressed if its Side Shot under Homing Boost is truly undodgeable.
Taurus Arm - range attacks have bad damage output, though the Shot Cancel is a definite thing. Still doesn't change the melee focus, but all things considered, I could see Taurus Arm need to be banned on the Melee Dash Attack being disjointed--of course, if it's the Melee Dash Attack alone that would get Taurus Arm banned, then that would be a red flag for Upperdash Arm, which has higher mobility and damage output on the Melee Dash Attack. Either way, though, I wouldn't exactly miss mindless melee; if Max in Advance Wars couldn't abuse an excuse of being in-character by having 1.5x damage output for directs in the first game to avoid a nerf in the sequels getting rid of the brokenness, there's no reason the Taurus Arm should be left unchecked.
Brawler/Raptor Claws - Raptor Claws is the higher priority to suspect test--if it proves broken enough to objectively need to be banned without having not only the highest mobility in the game but stupid high Shot Cancel and stupid fast charge rate as well, Brawler Claws will absolutely follow suit. That said, Raptor Claws has some shallow gameplay involved, so if it needs to go, I wouldn't exactly complain.
Celestial Fireworks - believe you me, this thing is tempting to outright ban, because Level 1 already has 5 charges for its Z shape, so Grid Reading it would be a nightmare, and if it's Level 2, 10 charges for 7 spaces is ridiculously cost-effective--to put this in perspective, Warp L4 and Super Speed L4 combined require a total of 20 spaces for the same number of charges. Still, CF has a recast cooldown of 3 seconds from usage, so even with maximized intangibility, there's still bound to be an opening in a follow-up. I'm not for letting PTSD caused by Evasion+ do all the talking, though there is no way CF should be allowed to be used without restriction by house rules. Oh, and the fireworks themselves? I use Armor Powers actively, so they're pretty much YMMV at most, though of course the intangibility would make every little aggravation add up.
Warp - the reason I proposed the tribute restriction system is because I'd rather have a creative way to stagger the more abuseable panic buttons, or else we risk a slippery slope of just banning panic buttons until the ones left are too restrictive to stagger decent Black Hole usage. Case in point: Warp L4 actually costs more than Angelic Missile L4 or Super Speed L4--and more importantly, Warp L4 requires 2 center spaces, contradicting Slip Shot+Energy Charge on the spot. Add to it that immediate reaction panic buttons are susceptible to being locked out by Interference, which guarantees the ability to spook off charges, and I say Warp should be given a shot as a restricted Power. Not as an unrestricted Power, of course; screaming at players to have Interference to defeat panic buttons instead of fighting the panic buttons themselves can get lame.
Brief Invincibility - basically a similar case to Warp: no casting, no panic button. Restriction is nevertheless justified simply on the grounds of Brief Invincibility's shapes being DRASTICALLY different between each other, making Grid Reading suffer and like it.
Random (which of course stays banned) - even if every Power was legal without restriction, Random's low cost is still an exercise in luck-based idiocy where it could roll anything from Spite or Fortune's Jukebox, to Powers with justified basic costs such as Slip Shot or Libra Sponge. Ergo, the note should say "can be used to roll banned or justified high cost Powers."
Lightweight (yeah, keep this banned too) - this would already be needing suspect testing with guaranteed restriction at least if the lag armor wasn't around. The boosts are GROSSLY disproportionate (doubled mobility AND halved stamina costs, WHY?), and the defense cut not only is hard to capitalize upon at all but barely does ANYTHING to reward a successful read.

 

[Master Knight DH]

So for those wondering about the point of the Tribute Restriction system I'm proposing for certain Powers, first, I should clarify that tributed Powers would NOT be locked out of legal use in the match, and neither would be the restricted Powers of course--I never said either would be. The primary goal is that they'd involve an information highway, not ruin setups so badly that the Powers may as well just be banned.

Anyway, I've found a good example of what would make it favorable: Super Speed VS Warp. I maintain that Super Speed still involves better gameplay than Warp, but the biggest problem with abuseable panic buttons is how they can exploit cost-effectiveness, as Celestial Fireworks has demonstrated in the past. And believe it or not, Super Speed has better cost effectiveness at its highest Level than Warp does, clocking in at 1.8 spaces per charge compare to Warp L4's 2.2. This isn't the only problem either; see, shapes are a thing, and I know I pointed out that Super Speed contradicts leveled Slip Shot right away, but there are still other combinations, including those that a line cost don't hinder nearly as much.

To make my point clear, here's all the possible max level combinations of Quick Charge+Slip Shot+3rd offense Power with Super Speed or Warp, format being Quick Charge's level first, Slip Shot's going second, and the 3rd offense Power being third.

3rd offense Power	Super Speed L1	Warp L1	Super Speed L2	Warp L2	Super Speed L3	Warp L3	Super Speed L4	Warp L4
Homing Boost	3/1/2 2/1/3	3/3/1 2/3/3	3/1/2 2/1/3	2/3/1 2/1/3 1/3/3	3/1/2 1/1/3	2/1/1 1/3/2	3/1/1 2/1/2 1/1/3	N/A
Energy Charge	3/1/1 2/1/2 1/1/3	2/3/2 1/3/3 1/1/4	3/1/1 2/1/2 1/1/3	1/3/1 1/1/2	3/1/1 1/1/2	1/3/1	2/1/1 1/1/2	N/A
Autoreticle	4/1/1	4/3/1 4/1/3	4/1/1	2/3/1 2/1/3	4/1/1	2/3/1 2/1/2 1/1/3	4/1/1	2/3/1 2/1/2 1/1/3
Invisible Shots	4/1/1 2/1/3	3/3/1 2/3/3	4/1/1 2/1/3	2/3/1 2/1/3 1/3/3	3/1/1 2/1/2 1/1/3	(1/1/1)	3/1/1 2/1/2 1/1/3	1/1/1
Petrify Attack	4/1/2 2/1/3	4/3/1 3/3/2 3/2/3 2/3/3	4/1/2 2/1/3	2/3/2 2/1/3 1/3/3	4/1/1 3/1/2 2/1/3	2/1/1 1/3/1 (1/1/2)	4/1/1 3/1/2 1/1/3	2/1/1 1/3/1 1/1/2
Freeze Attack	2/1/3	2/3/3	2/1/3	2/1/2 1/3/2	2/1/1 1/1/3	N/A	2/1/1	N/A
Playing Dead	2/1/2 1/1/3	2/3/2 1/3/3	2/1/2 1/1/3	2/1/1 1/3/1	1/1/2	N/A	N/A	N/A

(And yes, I know Playing Dead isn't an offense Power. Quick Charge+Slip Shot can still exploit Neutral Shot spam.)

While Warp has a general advantage over Super Speed at Level 1, this is more because Warp's disadvantage with level difference of spaces wouldn't have kicked in, and consequently would cost less than Super Speed at this point. The L2 differences pretty much just bring up how Super Speed ultimately favors more mobile weapons that can get around terrain cover more naturally. Where things get condemning, of course, is how Level 3 Warp compares to Level 3 or 4 Super Speed. Besides that L3 Warp costs 1 space more than L3 Super Speed for the same number of charges, the only combinations in the above where Slip Shot can be leveled with L3 Warp and leveled Quick Charge for its own multiple charges, is Quick Charge+Slip Shot+Autoreticle, which is bound to be telegraphed by something like a standard Staff. This weakens the leveled Slip Shot niche because that means there would be only one round of using the Powers simultaneously. Meanwhile, L3+ Super Speed, even if Slip Shot isn't dumped, can manage 2 rounds of Quick Charge and pretty much nearly any offense Power, with Petrify Attack or Homing Boost even achieving as many as 3 rounds, although the latter only applies for L3 Super Speed. That's drastic.

Oh, and of course, I'm talking about this happening with Quick Charge, which is an inexpensive Power that I think needs to be added to the suspect test list because it's quite possible it could pull more unique abuses than what the added damage output of Energy Charge would, without active justification like what Energy Charge gets--Quick Charge+Slip Shot+Autoreticle alone is enough of a show of this. Anyway, Slip Shot+Homing Boost+Energy Charge can't have Warp be leveled, but Super Speed can fit just fine as long as Slip Shot is, again, non-leveled. Neither of the two can work in the combination if Energy Charge is leveled or Homing Boost is L3; and Homing Boost L2 would block off Warp but only keep Super Speed from being max level. Suffice to say that Super Speed's only real obstacle for abuses is leveled Slip Shot contradiction; otherwise, Warp's abuse capability in comparison becomes a surprisingly arguable case.

Of course, banning Super Speed, or even just its higher Levels, wouldn't solve anything; it would just frustrate more legitimate usage of it, such as actual flanking efforts or even, yup, simple tagging ability. However, under the Tribute Restriction system, Super Speed being restricted wouldn't hit legitimate usage at all beyond forcing the player to reveal a non-restricted Power and also make clear that Slip Shot wouldn't be leveled; while the panic button spammers would end up having to reveal more information that would make it easier to catch/neutralize them. How would this be good? Here's how:
-Restricting Super Speed this way would make sure players would have to think if they add it in in an effort to pull some stall nonsense. Particularly, if Warp, Celestial Fireworks, and Brief Invincibility are all at least restricted as they should be (outright banning for any of those 3 still wouldn't surprise me), a player who could want max level Super Speed and 2 of those options will not have the tribute space, and just the math with the number of spaces would ensure that any other than Celestial Fireworks would have to be reduced by multiple Levels, never mind any shape-induced inconveniences.
-The Tribute Restriction system would also tie nicely with setups that wouldn't have their vulnerabilities be Grid Reading. I can definitely be sure that flankers would be people who want to close the distance on targets anyway, so hitting them would be guaranteed to not be an atrocious nightmare. As for any heavy infantrymen setups that would want Super Speed for tagging, well, my primary loadout does have Super Speed, but I have no problem Tributing Black Hole (it's Level 1 AND a staple on my primary loadout), or really ANY of my Powers, so the Tribute Restriction system wouldn't do anything to deter me.
-Adding to the above, the Tribute Restriction system could even be able to work as a psychological weapon by anybody who doesn't get short-circuited by it. One can expect to smell the opponent suddenly needing a lavatory upon uttering the words "Black Hole" when asked for Tribute, moreso if the opponent needs to change their Powers to protect against it. Points such as that can invite emotion-induced mistakes from the opponent that would make them easier to even clip.
-When spectators and quickstudies see how there would be players using restricted Powers and how there's seemingly no gameplay effect to the Powers being restricted at all, they would investigate and inevitably stumble upon the concept of Grid Reading. It would especially help when Bumblebee and Slip Shot won't even be considered for the chopping block, because that will indicate just how important things like Bumblebee's full line cost and Energy Charge's center space interaction are. This would surely help community growth, despite--or perhaps even because of--Grid Reading's drawbacks.

Summary is, Tribute Restriction would be handy, even if I wouldn't be surprised if it needs streamlining.

(And I would appreciate the forum both allowing a Preview Post feature, AND coherence with table cell coloring ability.)

 

[Eddypikachu]

You really don't have to put effort in trying to get your power restriction ruleset to work, pretty much all of us who are playing in the discord are already happy with the simple ruleset we use right now : P (which by the way can be found right here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hUSpiu_Z5QSu-fpPt4EvjrfYysKgYJA_kbXX5wZ5X6c/edit?usp=sharing ). Just find more people that want to play that's all you have to do now.

 

[Eddypikachu]

We're still accepting members! The discord link has been updated since the other one has had it's usage limit used up
https://discord.gg/dZYFUQ8

 

[Eddypikachu]

Hopefully chuggaconroy's new video about together mode sparked some interest for Competitive Kid Icarus Uprising !
Here's a permanent discord server link!
https://discord.gg/gxvERcF

 

[Tac 21]

never see anyone on this game in vs anyone anymore...

 

[Eddypikachu]

never see anyone on this game in vs anyone anymore...

Well if you're looking for some matches with other people you can always head on over to the discord and ask for people to play

 

[Eddypikachu]

We need like 3 more active members to have a full lvl 100 light vs dark room if anyone's interested