DSi incompatible with existing flash carts?

agentgamma

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Treffner said:
DS-X 'll NOT WORK!!!!
fixed.
You really think Nintendo would stop 15 different carts and IGNORE the DS-X?
wtf.gif

They probably have every flash card in some research center of theirs
QUOTE(Rayder @ Oct 31 2008, 09:04 PM) It's as I heard then......


Seems I heard the DSi uses a digital signature of some sort to allow games to work. Newer DS games will contain this signature. The old DS's don't look for this, so games will work anyway.

Old DS games are just on a whitelist in the DSi firmware to allow them to work.

Possibly, games that are reported to have issues running on the DSi may be because they are missing on the whitelist.

Obviously, no flashcarts will ever be on the whitelist....unless they are hacked in to the firmware.

Or some such blah-blah like that.

I swear I read that on THIS forum somewhere.
unsure.gif
They should make a flashcart called:
Super Mario 64 DS
Nintendo
 

agentgamma

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Heran Bago said:
Treffner said:
DS-X 'll probably WORK!!!!
Intriguing. Please elaborate.

Yes. I would LOVE to know where the reasoning comes from
Toni Plutonij said:
QUOTE(VISHI SO FISHI @ Nov 1 2008, 11:33 PM)
My dad is in China and Honk-Kong right now, he says people are selling DS'I in some shops, he says he will get me one,should i ask him too?

unsure.gif
Well, if you can get a DSi just like that....Why not get it?!
I still think it looks really good with that matte finish......and fooling around with camera could be fun....
Downside is that you won't be able to get any of the DSware, it is region locked..
If you get it, you have
a) A crap camera
b) A crap music player
c) A great gaming system
d) Bragging rights

Also you could probably just use Japanese Wii Point Cards for the store
biggrin.gif

eBay is your best bet for international pre paid cards like that
 

feds4u

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I've got one thing to say.....

Flash-Cart-ageddon

I am happy to see the DSi includes "gameboy camera style" functionality. I always had a lot of fun with that device. For that reason alone I will upgrade to the DSi.
 

agentgamma

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feds4u said:
I've got one thing to say.....

Flash-Cart-ageddon
rofl2.gif

QUOTE(feds4u @ Nov 2 2008, 01:36 PM) I am happy to see the DSi includes "gameboy camera style" functionality. I always had a lot of fun with that device. For that reason alone I will upgrade to the DSi.
Isn't the DSi a downgrade?
 

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Noitora said:
I'm sure they'll come up with a way to hack it *hopefully*

I am not surprised considering the crackdown on R4 by nintendo you all should of saw it coming. But with the new features of the nintendo dsi hacking is no longer necessary same as with the PS3 which has so many built-in features that hacking is unnecessary. The DSi has downloadable games more RAM making the expansion pack obsolete, in addition music and video right out of the box via SD card now external flashcart storage obsolete. Plus a camera and an APP store which means that all homebrewers need to do to get their apps running is to utilize the DS store to port their apps to the DSi so now the only reason to hack the DSi is well need I say more ROMS!!! Since nintendo said it themselves :

"The president of Nintendo, Satoru Iwata has revealed to Nikkei Net that he has a hope that the new device (DSi) will become an integral part of everyday life for most people. Nintendo hopes that users will have the device on them a t all times and by downloading subway maps and other things, the DSi can certainly be useful for other things than games.

They want apps to be made for the DSi so hacking is no longer needed to get your homebrew anymore just learn how to develop apps without having to worry about getting through security in addition this DSi will SUPPORT 32GB SDHC CARDS!!!!!!!!!
lecture.gif
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lecture.gif
lecture.gif
lecture.gif
 

qjopera

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agentgamma said:
feds4u said:
I've got one thing to say.....

Flash-Cart-ageddon
rofl2.gif

QUOTE(feds4u @ Nov 2 2008, 01:36 PM) I am happy to see the DSi includes "gameboy camera style" functionality. I always had a lot of fun with that device. For that reason alone I will upgrade to the DSi.
Isn't the DSi a downgrade?


Not even close GBA IS DEAD THEIR GAMES ARE PLAYABLE ON AN EMULATOR ON THE PSP AND PC. WHY BOTHER WITH GBA.

In addition the DSi supports 32GB HCSD CARDS!!!!!!!!!!! and has WPA wi-fi ability and built-in web browser not really a downgrade when you compare this with a flashcart enabled DS lite. C'MON do your homework before bashing idiot but due to the app store's maturity don't throw out your flash cart as of yet wait till more advanced apps come to the DS app store before totally dumping your flashcart and DS-lite
 

qjopera

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agentgamma said:
Heran Bago said:
Treffner said:
DS-X 'll probably WORK!!!!
Intriguing. Please elaborate.

Yes. I would LOVE to know where the reasoning comes from
Toni Plutonij said:
QUOTE(VISHI SO FISHI @ Nov 1 2008, 11:33 PM)
My dad is in China and Honk-Kong right now, he says people are selling DS'I in some shops, he says he will get me one,should i ask him too?

unsure.gif
Well, if you can get a DSi just like that....Why not get it?!
I still think it looks really good with that matte finish......and fooling around with camera could be fun....
Downside is that you won't be able to get any of the DSware, it is region locked..
If you get it, you have
a) A crap camera
b) A crap music player
c) A great gaming system
d) Bragging rights

Also you could probably just use Japanese Wii Point Cards for the store
biggrin.gif

eBay is your best bet for international pre paid cards like that


duh the DS isn't supposed to be a camera nor a music player that's what the iphone is for
 

qjopera

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konel01 said:
who cares. by the time the DSi hits the US someone will have cracked it and we wont even need flash cards. we'll just run the "homebrew" off of the SD slot. i'll miss my R4. i had it so organized the way i liked it.

DUDE THE DS APP STORE LETS YOU CREATE YOUR OWN APPS AND PORT THEM FROM HOMEBREW TO THE DS STORE WHERE YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY I KNOW SUCKS TO BE A USER BUT GREAT TO BE A DEVELOPER ESPECIALLY FOR HOMEBREW.
 

qjopera

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ryukyus said:
I feel sorry for whoever imported this for 300 dollars as far as i'm concern i like my dslite, probably gonna take another year till people can actually play homebrew, on it, and dsi is not worth my money if you could talk via the camera with wifi connection, it's the same thing for psp3000 even dark alex can hack it to play homebrew, i'm just gonna a psp 2000.

not really the DS store has apps very similar to homebrew read this from nintendo themselves:

The president of Nintendo, Satoru Iwata has revealed to Nikkei Net that he has a hope that the new device (DSi) will become an integral part of everyday life for most people. Nintendo hopes that users will have the device on them a t all times and by downloading subway maps and other things, the DSi can certainly be useful for other things than games.
 

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nephdj said:
Law said:
AlexFili said:
You know in the future all games will be sold digitally via a Steam-like service, so that no one will ever pirate again?

Oh well, that probably wont happen till 2012.

You can still pirate games that are on Steam.

Digital Distribution is not an answer to piracy.

Also asian markets were 56k is still more popular then broadband.

YEAH but you forgot one thing they make up such a small percentage of their consumer base that it would be more profitable to just cut them off and dump them as they aren't needed to make money while the ones with broadband will still buy the games the way I see it they will not only sell games exclusively digitally but they could care less about dial-up users who are too broke to buy games anyway!!!
 

qjopera

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ron555 said:
Hi guys,

Here's my perspective on the DSi.

Now, I love the DS quite a bit, so this is not a knock against Nintendo as a company, but I (personally) think they blew it with the DSi. Better hang onto your DS lites since it's going to be worth a fortune in the near future!


First, the GBA slot is gone. Sure, most people don't care, but there are some really awesome games like Metroid , Kirby , street fighter, etc etc. Losing this functionality would mean I'd have to have something just as good.

Camera. Um, I think Nintendo really screwed up on this one. Why in the world would I need a camera in my gaming device!? And not only that, 2 cameras! I just don't get it.

Online shop - most mainstream gamers will appreciate this, but I for one have never and (probably) will never buy games from DS online unless they're reasonably priced. Seeing as how the Wii VC games are overpriced, I don't expect this to happen. I will continue to purchase carts like Zelda/Castlevania/Contra and support those companies who produce good games.

Bigger screen - I really do appreciate this. I know I'm being selfish here, but I do wish they would of given us a little extra screen real estate for all the things we would give up DSi. Still, I do like this.

SD card slot - this is great, but for what I'm not really sure at this point. I (think) we already sort of have this feature with the CycloDS having SDHC compatibility. MicroSD is up to 8GB which IMO is worth it.

DSi (apparently) breaks all the Flashcarts, which seals the nail in DSi's coffin IMO. I know it'll probably be hacked, but what Nintendo needs to understand is that not all of us are piraters. I genuinely buy the games that I play and even there was NO POSSIBLE way to pirate them, I would STILL want something like a DS Flashcart for all the extra functionality, including (but not limited to):

1) Holding up to a gazillion carts on a 8gb microsd after being trimmed w/ Skinnyrom (best prog I've found)
2) Playing music/movies via moonshell
3) Able to cheat in game/real time saving with some games
4) Change backlight with control within game.
5) Other - read ebooks, etc ( I dont do this but I wanted to include it)
6) Other things I didn't mention.

Price: Now, I am more than willing to spend a little bit more $ for a superior product, but $180-190 (taxed) for a product that I percieve to offer me less?

This is why I think DSi won't be as big of a hit as the DS lite was.

well you do realize that you already CAN do all those things the online games are stored on the SD card and ebooks also
 

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openchip said:
ViRGE said:
Raven Darkheart said:
come on now
when the ds came out it took em at least a year to come up with a slot 1 solution that was stable
so we shouldnt panic yet
A lot of that time was spent just reverse engineering the handheld to understand how it worked. The Slot-2 solution was actually pretty crude, it didn't take very long because it wasn't based on any kind of advanced understanding of the hardware. Boot the DS with a real game, then throw it an instruction to a memory address that should not have worked if the DS firmware was written correctly in the first place (which is why Nintendo fixed it with later firmwares). The advantage now is that we have a good understand of the hardware and while the DSi changes some things, the specs of Slot-1 and the main CPU will not have changed. We know how to patch games on the fly to deal with the additional delays of NAND flash, and to intercept calls to read/write savegames. And if my understanding of modern flashcards is right, we even know Nintendo's original DS game signing key. It shouldn't take a year, the hardware has been developed, it'll be a matter of what mechanism is blocking current carts, and finding a vulnerability to bypass it. Nintendo has proven to be poor at correctly implementing security measures in the past.

It will be interesting to see if the speculation about a white-list are true. If Nintendo is smart they've added an additional game signing key (one we don't know) to new titles, and this is where the white-list would make sense. I can't imagine this holding up for very long though, it relies on the cart not lying. Since these are active devices, lying is very easy to do. We can't fake being a new game that the DS doesn't know about (due to new keys) but we could fake being an old one, albeit at the risk of starting an arms race with Nintendo in future firmware updates.

I would not be surprised if this new blocking mechanism made it in to the DS Lite eventually though. Clearly it's to Nintendo's advantage to break old flash carts in both the DSi and the older DS Lite.

On that note however, I sincerely doubt we'll see a SD hack on the DSi's SD card slot. What makes the DS unique is that it's meant to execute games coming from fast ROM memory, and while this isn't quite as literal as it was with the GBA (which had virtually no RAM because of the ROM), it still holds true. For SD flash carts, timing hacks had to be developed to trick the DS in to putting up with the fact that reads from NAND flash are not as fast as they are with the original ROM (If Openchip is still here, he could probably say a great deal more about this). This is part of the reason why every flash cart has a small processor on it, because it needs to constantly intercept things. Making the DSi read from its own SD slot means that we won't have that processor and we can't execute games simply by throwing the bootup routine a new address that points to the SD slot. The firmware itself would need to be modified to perform what the flash cart processor currently does, and I'm not sure that would work for any number of reasons. Not the least of which includes if we can even write custom firmwares, or if it's possible to shoehorn one of the ARM processors in to doing this without throwing off other timings or slowing down the DS. Getting current flash carts working on the DS will probably be far easier than going to the next level and executing games from the SD slot.

I'm around maybe I am
smile.gif


some clarifications:
1) not all flash cards have an processor, there i no direct need for one
2) SD cards are FASTER then DS ROMs, not slower
.

It would be VERY surprising if DS titles would have any access to the DSi hardware.
More likely that titles starting in DS mode will lockdown the DSi to DS mode very
much the same as GBA titles on DS lockout DS hardware. And DSi titles as signed.
So the chance is real that the SD/Camera/Wifi will never be accessed by any homebrew.

Of course it is possible that N wasted many man years of development
and made another easy hack target device.
correction port the homebrew to the DS online store then make money for it and you can easily access the SD and WIFI plus the SD is for storage of apps. FYI nintendo has no intention of banning home brew read this:

The president of Nintendo, Satoru Iwata has revealed to Nikkei Net that he has a hope that the new device (DSi) will become an integral part of everyday life for most people. Nintendo hopes that users will have the device on them a t all times and by downloading subway maps and other things, the DSi can certainly be useful for other things than games.
 

cracker

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Nintendo is not opening up the system to homebrew programmers. Sure there may be a few titles that Nintendo wants but it's not like they are going to go out and seek homebrew games from individuals. There will be plenty of content (VC being the majority) for the DSi just as there is for the Wii -- enough so that Nintendo won't feel there is a need to go out of their way to find more. Also Nintendo would require that their devkit was used so either the dev would have to purchase it themself or come to some sort of agreement where Nintendo got control over the development. It's not as simple as it is with a flash cart where someone makes something, posts it online, and people download it and play. It will be up to Nintendo what things will see the light of day on their store. Take into consideration the Wii. The only WW title that I have seen that was a homebrew game is Defend Your Castle. I don't expect anything different from the DSi. Nintendo is in the money making business -- not the help-a-homebrewer-get-published business.
 

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couldnt you just put all the info from things like r4ds and the like on to the sd and play it from there
it seems logical enough
yaynds.gif
 

cracker

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GhostSonic said:
tellytubby said:
couldnt you just put all the info from things like r4ds and the like on to the sd and play it from there
it seems logical enough
yaynds.gif
That doesn't even make sense.

Better still is that they used their first post on it.
biggrin.gif


And to answer the original question: No, the R4 (or any other) loader will not run from an SD cart inserted into the DSi. Everything that will be capable of running off of the SD card will need to be encrypted and signed just as on the Wii.
 

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