Hacking How can anyone be okay with Gateway's behavior?

[samljer]

It's downright despicable that a company installed a trojan to try and screw over its competitors, and people are actually defending it. Even more despicable that they went after end-users who didn't even do anything wrong, yet get screwed with a bricked console. Most average "Joe Shmoes" don't know that 3DSLink/r4i Gold are clones of Gateway, so why should they suffer? Why would Gateway want to go after users? If Gateway has a beef against anyone, it should be the r4 team themselves, not the consumers.

Just imagine if Sony or Dell started installing trojans in their laptops that would automatically destroy your computer if you tried to use any "unorthorized" parts (like cheaper third-party batteries). There would be an uproar, and people would be crying for Sony's head. I really believe the only people defending Gateway are diehard fanboys who don't like the idea of choice.

And as for the nonsense "b-but r4/3dslink are just clones/thieves" argument, that's par for the course in the modding/cracking world. Everyone copies everyone else, especially in China. In the end of the day, it's actually better for the consumer, since more choice means better prices. It's not a big deal. And $85 is an absurd price point to begin with.
But back to my point; Gateway's mantra from day 1 (months ago) has been "clones use cheaper parts and might brick your console", which turned out to be utterly false and a blatant lie. So, they attempted to make their lies come true by programming in a trojan that does just that. Shame on them, and shame on anyone who defends that shit.

Because they made the chances very clear when they first released the card.
they told u the risks
and you knew them before u started

so how about a good ol stfu?

and as for the clones, they are thieves. it was proven already.

Any program that pretends to do one thing, but actually contains a hidden maliciously written piece of code for a secret agenda, is a Trojan. This was a Trojan.

That definition isnt a trojan.

A trojan horse is a back door entry point in software.
good example of this is Backoffice and Sub7

it wasnt a trojan.

what you described, is a virus.

hidden code that says it does one thing but does another; maliciously.

 

[Xzi]

How can anyone be okay with Gateway's behavior?

They only use Gateway hardware/firmware and thus haven't been affected by the issue at all. Just answering the question as to how they could be okay with it.

"If you're having flash cart troubles I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but a brick ain't one." xD

Just imagine if Sony or Dell

There's no need for analogies, and this one was way off from the get-go. Gateway, R4i, etc, are not corporations. They're not even legitimate businesses for the most part.

And as for the nonsense "b-but r4/3dslink are just clones/thieves" argument, that's par for the course in the modding/cracking world. Everyone copies everyone else, especially in China. In the end of the day, it's actually better for the consumer, since more choice means better prices.

Competition IS better for the consumer, but only if there's actual competition to drive innovation. R4i/3DSLink/etc were doing absolutely nothing for us in terms of delivering the features that people were demanding. I feel bad for the people with bricked devices, but not for those clone cart manufacturers being killed off.

 

[milkman12345]

I bought an R4 3DS deluxe. I was going to get a Gateway, but then decided to get a clone since Gateway probably wasn't going to be the only 3DS cart I buy. Now I'm lucky I still have a 3DS.

I don't think Gateway made a good move. There aren't many 4.5 3DS's left in the world so each bricked 3DS means a lost customer. Bricking the cloned flash carts would have been a much better option.

I'm unhappy with their behavior. I'm never going to update my R4 in case there's more malicious code in the launcher.dat. If I owned an original Gateway I'd just be like fuck it I don't give a shit.

 

[thecourier]

Gateway and its fanboys can try and justify this as much as they please, but they are in the wrong no two ways about it.

Gateway are profiting from theft at the end of the day, you cant complain that your piracy tool or code was pirated, this is the business you are in.

Personally I find the intentional bricking of innocent users 3DS's highly malicious and downright disgusting. Gateway should not be supported by anyone in the know of things in any way from now on.

The most logical post in this entire board.

 

[Tomobobo]

Don't blame Gateway, blame yourself.

If you're so cheap that you would rather save a few bucks and get the obviously ripped off product then you really shouldn't bitch when that lesser product has an issue.

All the bitching and whining about gateway and it's your own damn fault for choosing an inferior product.

Email your clone card and bitch at them for stealing other peoples work and demand original development, or just buy the Gateway and support it.

Otherwise, stop hacking your console if you can't handle the repercussions.

 

[gamesquest1]

If Nintendo did the same I would take it on the chin, yeah it's bloody shitty but you can't always expect people to not get pissed and retaliate...I wouldn't even blame gateway I would blame myself...I said in a post long ago before any bricking occurred ,that it's bad enough having one team of developers working against you I.e Nintendo without having another set trying to get to you aswell I.e gateway....this is why

 

[FAST6191]

Any program that pretends to do one thing, but actually contains a hidden maliciously written piece of code for a secret agenda, is a Trojan. This was a Trojan.

That definition isnt a trojan.

A trojan horse is a back door entry point in software.
good example of this is Backoffice and Sub7

it wasnt a trojan.

what you described, is a virus.

hidden code that says it does one thing but does another; maliciously.

Much as I hate to get drawn into definition debates

You describe a either bug which became an exploit or one of the possible definitions of trojan and a weaker one at that; a backdoor into a program/system is rarely wanted but sometimes present for "legit" reasons, also what is coming in the next lines.

A trojan is a program that either entirely or via some hidden means on top of the normal thing purports to be something nice/useful and in fact is malicious. It tends to require user willingness to install/run/operate. For example if you made a linux shell script with the famous rm -fr...... and then said to someone to "run crazysystemkiller.sh as root", you have not got access to their system now but you have messed it up via means a program.

A virus is a program that by design performs unwanted actions *and* can spread by itself. A trojan is then usually along the same lines as a virus but can not spread by itself, not such a great distinction nowadays but the historical one.

 

[drinnian]

I'm actually wondering what'll happen when it's no longer profitable for them to make those cards (since it's a very limited group that still has <4.5), will they continue to provide support or completely drop it.

(this is just purely hypothetical doomsday thinking on my part)

 

[gamesquest1]

I'm actually wondering what'll happen when it's no longer profitable for them to make those cards (since it's a very limited group that still has <4.5), will they continue to provide support or completely drop it.

(this is just purely hypothetical doomsday thinking on my part)

I think before it gets to that point independat developers will probably be on par with gateways abilities, it's still to be seen if they will ever find a way to break 6.x to enable custom code...I think before dropping all support they would pay some very close attention to making more consoles compatible...be it finding a kernel exploit in 6.x or finding a downgrade method....not saying it would be possible but usually once inside hackers generally find new novel ways of furthering their window of opportunity

 

[DarkKnigh_t]

OP i agree completely with you. Defending gateway because clones steal their work? gateway is stealing nintendos money and making a profit well then Nintendo should brick all of your consoles then for using gateway.

 

[Tomobobo]

Buncha scared little pussy pirates.

 

[frown]

ok, so what 'anti cloning' SHOULD gateway have included?

A lower MSRP? lol

 

[aXXo]

Your analogy sucks, and I've got a better one for you:

Person A steals sandwiches from one location, and sells them at a large markup to hungry people at another place
Person B notices this, and attempts to copy his method, and offers his sandwiches at a lower price (undercutting Person A).
Buyers are pleased at the choice, and pleased at Person Bs lower prices.
Person A is pissed that Person B is copying his method and calls person B a "theif"
One day, Person A pours an unidentified substance onto his sandwhiches before selling them
Person B notices this, and attempts to do the same thing by stealing some of Person As "substance" during the night, and pouring it onto his own sandwiches
The next day, all of Person Bs customers die from cyonide poisoning. Person A laughs and says he switched the canister
Person A says he feels no remorose at all the deaths since he says he wasn't involved directly, and says Person Bs customers were "thieves" anyway

In the above example, Person A is the asshole.

I would say that Person A is a psychopath (person with amoral, criminal and antisocial behavior and is unable to care for others) in addition to being a thief, while Person B is just a sociopath (engages in criminal and amoral behavior such as theft). Both people are obviously amoral, but Person A's behavior is exceedingly worrying since Person A has no moral qualms over committing per-meditated murder.

Comparing Gateway as Person A and Clones as Person B is kind of silly, since murder was involved. A better way to compare things more accurately is to say that Gateway is psychopathic and the Clones are sociopaths. Here's a good website for proper comparisons between the two: http://www.diffen.com/difference/Psychopath_vs_Sociopath

 

[someonewhodied]

OP i agree completely with you. Defending gateway because clones steal their work? gateway is stealing nintendos money and making a profit well then Nintendo should brick all of your consoles then for using gateway.

If it happens, well I wouldn't blame nintendo, as long as people playing legit cartridges or digital games are safe.

 

[pyromaniac123]

That's what you get when you pirate a piracy device

 

[Saturosias]

Just imagine if Sony or Dell started installing trojans in their laptops that would automatically destroy your computer if you tried to use any "unorthorized" parts (like cheaper third-party batteries).

That's actually a pretty horrible analogy, you've already paid for Sony's/Dell's hardware/software that came pre-installed in that case, they've already made the money. In this case, Gateway makes no money for people buying copycat hardware instead of theirs. People here need to stop trying to make "clever" analogies to seem smart and/or defend their stance, it's downright idiotic seeing stupid comparisons being made all over the place.

 

[kyogre123]

And now this became an analogy contest.

 

[gamesquest1]

And now this became an analogy contest.

Unfortunately the whole thing started as an analogyfest

 

[thecourier]

If you're so cheap that you would rather save a few bucks and get the obviously ripped off product then you really shouldn't bitch when that lesser product has an issue.

Does that include those who were unaware of gateway and what the clone cards were doing?

All the bitching and whining about gateway and it's your own damn fault for choosing an inferior product.

A lot of the people here are criticizing gateway dont own clone cards. That should tell you something about how clearly wrong it is for them to do what they did.

Email your clone card and bitch at them for stealing other peoples work and demand original development, or just buy the Gateway and support it.

Excellent idea! Lets give Gateway a monopoly! We can support them even more if they were to increase the price due to having no more competitors! Ironic that you mention stealing peoples work when Gateway is allowing users to do just that. They should have DRM measures against those cards, not the users. How is that not common sense to you?

 

[morvoran]

Has anybody ever thought to look into the idea that this "malicious code" that Gateway put in their launcher could just be the anti-"accidental update" code that they decided not to release with the 2.02b launcher?

Why did they leave that code in if it could brick the system? They could have left this code in as it would have taken a while to remove every trace of it which would delay the release of the update (which would piss people off) but disabled it (and put checks in the launcher) in order to prevent people from bricking their 3DS' using the 2.02b launcher.

From what I read, the 3DS bricking occurs when people are using modified launchers and leave the settings screen while in emunand. What was the reason for the accidental updates to the main nand when people were just trying to update their emunands? They were leaving the settings screen then updating their 3DS. Gateway was working on a way to prevent this.

My thought on this is that the cloners bypassed the code that disabled this unfinished feature which is causing the bricks.

They even stated on their site -

2.02b now available

23/12/2013
First of all, thanks to everyone who has been testing our public beta.

We mentioned previously that we would have a solution against accidental updates, but we decided not to release this just yet.
While we did succeed in preventing accidental updates for our test 3DS unit, it took trial and error to get it in that state, and we bricked the unit many times before succeeding.
Ultimately we decided that it was too dangerous for public use right now.

This scenario is why I'm okay with Gateway's behavior