Hacking Legend of Heroes Translation

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sushi55

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Another lurker here who just wants to thank the entire team for all their hard work. A translation of Zero/Ao is all I want, regardless who does it, and the fact that there are fans wonderful enough to do it, FOR FREE NO LESS, means the world to me. I cannot stress how happy I am that there are people amazing enough to do it, their views on various matters (which I may or may not agree with) aside.

That's all.
Keep up the good work!
 
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zigma9114

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For translators:
Man, I registered just to say this, keep on the good work mate!

For others:
1. XSEED: If and when XSEED decide to translate the games AND if and when XSEED decides to C&D (like SE to FFType0) then you can complain about people doing translation to this. Fan translation HAS ALWAYS BEEN ILLEGAL, LEGALLY SPEAKING, it is just most company ignore it unless they want to translate it themselves, as in the FFType0 translation.

2. Complain about translation quality HAS BEEN ADDRESSED. The process is basically 1. Rough/literal translation -> 2. Editing. I've been a tester reader for a Visual Novel translation which process is roughly like this. See the end product, and then complain if you want to. And then, if you don't like it complain it once or something and move the heck on. YOU ALWAYS HAS THE CHOICE NOT TO PLAY, if you dislike it.

3. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PLAY THE GAME DANGIT. Quit be so entitled. "If you can translate it right then don't touch muh game series!" Surprise! There are people who are fine with it. As I said, you always has the choice not to play and wait for official translation. And if you have the Kiseki know how or something like that try organizing a fan translation team and tell us how easy it is.

As closing remark, stop being an arse. There are few fan translation team that manage to translate such huge game in terms of raw text. Some project have smaller game and didn't even manage to finish. Appreciate that there are people who actually worked in their spare time to localize a game that is unlikely to get official translation. Even if you don't like the people, appreciate the work, and if you can't, what is it to you people that you are bothered with what other people do with their spare time?
 

smugleaf11

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For others:
1. XSEED: If and when XSEED decide to translate the games AND if and when XSEED decides to C&D (like SE to FFType0) then you can complain about people doing translation to this. Fan translation HAS ALWAYS BEEN ILLEGAL, LEGALLY SPEAKING, it is just most company ignore it unless they want to translate it themselves, as in the FFType0 translation.
Thank you for being direct and stating that it's illegal. That's what I figured after Tantrum ignored my last post about fair use and derivative works. Likewise, until XSEED sends a C&D, people should stop complaining about them being an evil company who is out to screw fan translators over.

2. Complain about translation quality HAS BEEN ADDRESSED. The process is basically 1. Rough/literal translation -> 2. Editing. I've been a tester reader for a Visual Novel translation which process is roughly like this. See the end product, and then complain if you want to. And then, if you don't like it complain it once or something and move the heck on. YOU ALWAYS HAS THE CHOICE NOT TO PLAY, if you dislike it.
Theoretically, if an editor doesn't know the game well and isn't fluent in Japanese too, then the final script will reflect that. Complaints can be valid critiques, and if you're the leader of the project, I don't think you should filter them all out. Not saying that's what's happening here, but complaints that are valid and aren't taken personally can improve the quality of the final product.

3. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PLAY THE GAME DANGIT. Quit be so entitled. "If you can translate it right then don't touch muh game series!" Surprise! There are people who are fine with it. As I said, you always has the choice not to play and wait for official translation. And if you have the Kiseki know how or something like that try organizing a fan translation team and tell us how easy it is.
What everyone is entitled to is their opinion. If you don't like it, drown it out.

As closing remark, stop being an arse. There are few fan translation team that manage to translate such huge game in terms of raw text. Some project have smaller game and didn't even manage to finish. Appreciate that there are people who actually worked in their spare time to localize a game that is unlikely to get official translation. Even if you don't like the people, appreciate the work, and if you can't, what is it to you people that you are bothered with what other people do with their spare time?
Have you seen how insulting Tantrum has been in this topic? Or how insulting NightWolve has been to a bunch of people? Are you saying that it's alright to be an arse so long as you're siding with fan translators? Let's be fair, both sides should tone it down a notch. We're all to blame for the current state of this topic.
 

Erpy

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While yes, XSEED also managed to fuck up with the FC PSP Translation (but really, that's because they thought Deuce would do the job properly, being in a rush), they owned up to it and fixed the script in the PC release. But even then, most of the FC PSP translation was good and even the bad parts were believable, so...

I'd like to repeat this. Having played both the PSP version and the PC version, I acknowledge that the parts that were changed improved the scene a lot, but the mess-ups were mostly concentrated in 4 or 5 scenes. (important ones, but even so) Even before, the translation still hit the mark in 95% of all cases, which despite the fact that it could have been done better, is still quite a standard to live up to. And make no mistake, comparisons with the official games, including SC and Cold Steel, will be unavoidable for any team that takes up the mantle of translating a kiseki game. Maybe not completely fair, but that's how things tend to work in practice...and, in my opinion, rightfully so.

Thank you for being direct and stating that it's illegal. That's what I figured after Tantrum ignored my last post about fair use and derivative works. Likewise, until XSEED sends a C&D, people should stop complaining about them being an evil company who is out to screw fan translators over.

Little nitpicky, but XSeed would never issue a C&D since they're not the intellectual property holder for the Kiseki series. That's Falcom. XSeed just licenses their stuff. If any projects are considered an issue, it'd likely be Falcom who'd voice a request to stop.
 

Zoel

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Credit where credit is due. I'm leaving the XSEED fiasco out of this. I can judge better if I do.



Grow up. Worthless fan efforts amount to nothing but disservice to the fans. As long as their work is wildly known, it's fair game to offer opinions on the matter. You certainly can't blame fans who've known and played these games, completely understanding and getting sucked in them for at least a decade to fear that new fans will be treated to whatever is going on in this thread. The Kiseki series is a serious one. It needs time and dedication to get into, where literally half the script is stuff that needs consideration from several other titles to work. When you can't even form a complete sentence in English, yet show off your work, you don't deserve praise, really.
While yes, XSEED also managed to fuck up with the FC PSP Translation (but really, that's because they thought Deuce would do the job properly, being in a rush), they owned up to it and fixed the script in the PC release. But even then, most of the FC PSP translation was good and even the bad parts were believable, so...

How is it a disservice? I mean seriously, these guys put out their efforts for free, translating a game for audience that wouldn't even try it due to unable playing it in their native language. Also that translation is still in an early phase, you can rip it apart when it's done. Many official release have botched translations and typos. Sometimes they would just rewrite the whole thing, you call it localization, I call lazy I could make up anything as long as i have the official license approval. Just look at the new Fire Emblem for example. Yeah I don't think I need to know japanese to get a job at Nintendo as a translator with work like this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbmFXTQUMAAiRc8.jpg
 
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smugleaf11

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Little nitpicky, but XSeed would never issue a C&D since they're not the intellectual property holder for the Kiseki series. That's Falcom. XSeed just licenses their stuff. If any projects are considered an issue, it'd likely be Falcom who'd voice a request to stop.
Nah, I think that's a good point to raise, as it seems that a lot of people everywhere incorrectly treat XSEED as a developer. How embarrassing that I've made the same mistake here. What I should have said was that the team shouldn't be complaining about XSEED until they intervene with a subtle comment, similar to how the Brandish translation was halted because Tom suggested that they might want to focus on other games.


How is it a disservice? I mean seriously, these guys put out their efforts for free, translating a game for audience that wouldn't even try it due to unable playing it in their native language. Also that translation is still in an early phase, you can rip it apart when it's done. Many official release have botched translations and typos. Sometimes they would just rewrite the whole thing, you call it localization, I call lazy I could make up anything as long as i have the official license approval. Just look at the new Fire Emblem for example. Yeah I don't think I need to know japanese to get a job at Nintendo as a translator with work like this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbmFXTQUMAAiRc8.jpg
Criticism during the project allows the possibility of changes before the final releases, so that everyone can have a better experience when it does come out. In this particular case, the video we have shows that the script could use some work. We can only comment about what is visible to us. If zero or anyone else on the team provides more recent examples of a more polished script, then they can get more accurate and relevant feedback, perhaps even more help.
 
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Robert10

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For translators:
Man, I registered just to say this, keep on the shit work mate!

For others:
1. XSEED: If and when XSEED decide to translate the games AND if and when XSEED decides to C&D (like SE to FFType0) then you can complain about people doing translation to this. Fan translation HAS ALWAYS BEEN ILLEGAL, LEGALLY SPEAKING, it is just most company ignore it unless they want to translate it themselves, as in the FFType0 translation.

2. Complain about translation quality HAS BEEN ADDRESSED. The process is basically 1. Rough/literal translation -> 2. Editing. I've been a tester reader for a Visual Novel translation which process is roughly like this. See the end product, and then complain if you want to. And then, if you don't like it complain it once or something and move the heck on. YOU ALWAYS HAS THE CHOICE NOT TO PLAY, if you dislike it.

3. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PLAY THE GAME DANGIT. Quit be so entitled. "If you can translate it right then don't touch muh game series!" Surprise! There are people who are fine with it. As I said, you always has the choice not to play and wait for official translation. And if you have the Kiseki know how or something like that try organizing a fan translation team and tell us how easy it is.

As closing remark, stop being an arse. There are few fan translation team that manage to translate such huge game in terms of raw text. Some project have smaller game and didn't even manage to finish. Appreciate that there are people who actually worked in their spare time to localize a game that is unlikely to get official translation. Even if you don't like the people, appreciate the work, and if you can't, what is it to you people that you are bothered with what other people do with their spare time?

except that others could do it properly and are consistent with the Eiyuu Densetsu terminologies, and they didn't put some exorbitant price on the project, it's like a terrible kickstarter, without the kickstarting part. At this point I might as well wait for someone else to do it or play the EVO versions, which I am. Also if you want to say naysayers to stop being an arse, why don't you look back at what the OP said BEFORE you call others that. Hell, I might as well put it here;

Xseed has not given a confirmation on the status of this that I know of at this point (and I don't follow what they are doing since reading about the cry baby translator holding a knife to his chest. I just lost all respect I had for them when they made that public knowledge as a sympathy plea for what took them so long as a professional company to release SC).

Making fun on someone who tried to commit suicide because of depression, yeah if that's not an arse then I must be a saint.
 

Syth

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Indeed. It's not the bad translation which angers people, it's the bad current state of the translation COMBINED WITH his arrogant and disrespectful attitude to other translators. The potshot at the guy who attempted suicide was actually VERY crass, especially considering Dice is a pretty cool guy.
 

Truner

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Personally, I don't care about the arrogant nature of the team, the fan translation cred does that. You should never care about the people behind something, only the product they are offering. I very much enjoy FEZ, not caring about what the creator of it did.
The insultingly bad "translation" showcased so far? Yeah, you don't do that if you don't want people to think your "translation" is shit. It's simple as that. If you can't form complete sentences without errors, yet still feel the need to show of your work, what do you expect? People to not call your work crap? At this point, even the Fire Emblem Fates localization is miles ahead of this.

Yes, they are doing this for free, they are not obligated to. But that doesn't mean that they are suddenly gods that need to be worshiped. Not when their job is incompetent as hell. Yes, I won't be playing this, I don't even need to (with Evo and all). But I'll sure as hell warn fans of the series to reconsider waiting for a professional translation instead every chance I get. Fans of Falcom games deserve better. If you think this project will improve the way it is now, you are kidding yourself. We all saw how Nayuta no Kiseki is, it's a complete disaster in literally every single way. If the choice is this, or no translation for the game ever, the latter is still the more sensible option.
 

Erpy

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Xseed has not given a confirmation on the status of this that I know of at this point (and I don't follow what they are doing since reading about the cry baby translator holding a knife to his chest. I just lost all respect I had for them when they made that public knowledge as a sympathy plea for what took them so long as a professional company to release SC).

I feel I should address this because it's incorrect. Especially BECAUSE XSeed is a professional company, they never made Dice's circumstances public knowledge. In fact, I've never seen them make an official statement on that matter. It was Andrew Dice himself who posted the blog containing the details of what happened. If he hadn't, XSeed most likely would have limited themselves to pointing out the vast size of the script and the extremely iffy technical nature of the game, which WERE ALL THINGS THAT FACTORED IN TOO. (the technical issues forced them to delay the game from their announced summer 2015 to fall 2015, long after Dice left the project)

Mileage will obviously vary on Andrew Dice. There will no doubt always be people who'll echo the sentiment you voiced here and claim that this warrants a major loss of respect. I see things different.

XSeed never released Dice's circumstances, despite the fact they could have done so to avoid responsibility, but they didn't and still don't make any official statements regarding the situation. I can respect that. Likewise, XSeed wouldn't have ratted him out, but Dice still made the move to publish that blog himself, taking responsibility for the delay instead of hiding behind XSeed's desire to remain professional. It takes guts to throw that blog into a sociopathic environment such as the internet, knowing there'd be people who'd childishly mock him for it. He still did it. It's a fine example of taking responsibility that I can respect.

The situation made you respect Dice and XSeed less, for me, it's the other way around.

I specifically asked the translators to give me a very literal translation. I did not want them to be responsible for having to worry about context in terms of writing the story without a full translation of the entire game (we are very very close to that point). That is the script writers job. To take the translation and make something amazing out of it. That is where I will come in.

I'm not trying to flame, but this sincerely puzzles me. Japanese is a very contextual language to begin with and when localizing something, the important thing is not so much what words the original writer used, but what point he was trying to get across. Using literal translations and working from there, rather than using the original lines, is like taking a screenshot of something, saving it as a lossy JPG first and THEN doing pixel-editing on the result. It adds an extra step to the process that has very few benefits and significantly risks finer details slipping through and getting lost in translation. I'm really puzzled why you'd use this method.

There are few fan translation team that manage to translate such huge game in terms of raw text. Some project have smaller game and didn't even manage to finish. Appreciate that there are people who actually worked in their spare time to localize a game that is unlikely to get official translation. Even if you don't like the people, appreciate the work, and if you can't, what is it to you people that you are bothered with what other people do with their spare time?

Okay, soapbox time. I hope people bear with me.

First of all, I'm not a fan translator, but I HAVE spent the better part of 8 years working on fan games (fan remakes specifically) in the past, which in many ways is similar; you're working for free, you're using your spare time to create something for other people to enjoy and you're working on another party's franchise, of which you are a fan. I get being frustrated when people come in and take shots at your work. At the same time, it's not like you're working on a free indie-game, you're working with an existing franchise, so additional skepticism from fans of that franchise, going hand-in-hand with the publicity accompanying taking up a project using said existing franchise, comes with the territory, especially if you haven't proven yourself yet.

It's tempting to use the "you get what you pay for" and "don't play it if you don't like it" arguments as get-out-of-jail-free cards. Heck, I've used them from time to time. You don't want to overuse them, though.

Yes, you're doing this for free, but that's not always a disadvantage. You're not getting paid, but there's also no lead shareholder breathing down your neck and imposing a strict deadline. Whenever someone complains about it taking too long, feel free to use the "it's free"-argument to your heart's desire. Since you're not getting paid, people can't reasonably expect commercial timeframes from you. But since you're not getting paid and there's no commercial deadline, nothing stops you from witholding the release until it's polished to perfection. The "it's free"-argument is valid if a project like a fangame has slightly below quality voice acting and people complain about it. Renting a professional recording studio costs lots of money and sending out professional recording equipment to all your voice actors is similarly unfeasable. No amount of extra time and audio tweaking will completely close the gap between amateur and professional work here. If people take issue with something that could have been improved by putting more time/effort into it, such as dialogue translations, the non-profit argument stops protecting you. Which brings me to the next point.

It's also easy to say: "Don't play it if you don't like it." Yes, it's a tempting one too. But again, you're not working on an indie game here. You're working with the fruits of another party's labors. (Falcom in this case) In fact, by calling your project a fan translation, you're suggesting you hold that party in great esteem. By working with and modifying this other party's work, you're affecting the goodwill associated with this work, for good or for ill. A high-quality translation would shine a positive light on Falcom's work. A low-quality translation would reflect badly on Falcom's work, fairly or not. The fact that you're working with the work of a party you admire is something that should be in the back of your mind at all times, no fan would ever want his or her actions to reflect badly on the company they're a fan of and lots of folks who call themselves fans will care very much how your work reflects on their favorite franchise. At the end of the day, the question will be: "Is this project something Falcom would have approved and blessed if copyright law were taken out of the equation?" If the honest answer to the question is: "Hell yes!" then great. If the honest answer is either "Who cares?", "Any attention I get is good attention." or "But Ghagarv...", you're not working on a fan project, but rather a "fan" project.

So yeah, "it's free" and "don't play it if you don't like it" are often used arguments, but limited in real use.

Time to put the soapbox away now.
 
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G-Han

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You're not getting paid, but there's also no lead shareholder breathing down your neck and imposing a strict deadline. Whenever someone complains about it taking too long, feel free to use the "it's free"-argument to your heart's desire. Since you're not getting paid, people can't reasonably expect commercial timeframes from you. But since you're not getting paid and there's no commercial deadline, nothing stops you from witholding the release until it's polished to perfection. The "it's free"-argument is valid if a project like a fangame has slightly below quality voice acting and people complain about it. Renting a professional recording studio costs lots of money and sending out professional recording equipment to all your voice actors is similarly unfeasable. No amount of extra time and audio tweaking will completely close the gap between amateur and professional work here. If people take issue with something that could have been improved by putting more time/effort into it, such as dialogue translations, the non-profit argument stops protecting you. Which brings me to the next point.
Well said. That's also the rule I play by. People have offered me monetary support, for which I'm grateful but I've politely turned down those offers or suggested to donate the money to something else. What I do in my spare time, I do for fun.
 

Robert10

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A bunch of new accounts floc in to bash this project and insult th OP. Completly fine and reasonable.
I get angry at this and insult then. I'm fucking loser that don't know shit and should stop posting.

If this is what this circlejerk has become I'm glad to say that I'm out.
Enjoy your little orgasms when a lot of people lost their chance to play this game because OP got fed up and decide cancel it.
I'm sure that you will feel a better person after that.

And Red Emperor, you are a muslim.
Hypocrisy is your veins... ;)

So sayeth the guy who created his account just a few days ago, and wow that last line, and who was the one again that shouted to others to grow up?
 

omgfloofy

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Then DO IT YOURSELF GODAMIT!!!

Wow. Just... wow. This is how you respond to a well reasoned post? lol ok. So far, it looks like you're the one being the most unreasonable here, by living up to your username. :|

I actually do translate crap for the fan community. I have been for almost 7 years now. I don't have the time to do it because I've been working on the site itself, and these other translation projects aren't translating themselves. Which ARE related to the Kiseki series. So I don't know. It would be kind of nice for some fans who do work on translation ON THE SAME SERIES to actually fucking get together and corroborate their work. Maybe you shouldn't be such a fucking asshole about it.

And Red Emperor, you are a muslim.
Hypocrisy is your veins...

This is absolutely uncalled for. Like I said. YOU are the one being absolutely fucking unreasonable here and losing your mind. YOU should be the one to grow up already.
 

omgfloofy

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This thread has so much salt you could say this thread is actually North Ambria.

Hahahaha I love you. <3

EDIT:

I'm responding to something else on a belated point:

Enjoy your little orgasms when a lot of people lost their chance to play this game because OP got fed up and decide cancel it.

I don't think people will lose their chance to play it, because I wouldn't be surprised if XSEED would get it figured out and will get a chance to release it. With Hatsuu at the helm of things, I almost guarantee it, because she's harassing her boss and peers about it every damn day, as far as I know. It's a slow process, and they need to get Cold Steel 2 and tackle 3rd if they go to the Crossbell games. Then there's also the fact that Falcom's also announced Sen III as under development, too.

They may not be there yet, but I'm pretty sure that, with the responses they've had overall with the series, XSEED will get to Zero no Kiseki once it's available and they're able to work on it.
 
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