Logic behind Christianity?

[bsfmtl123]

So you actually believe anyone who doesn't believe is useless? I hope you're enjoying the useless inventions and discoveries that are making your life better, longer, healthier and happier made by those useless people.

No I didn't mean that.I meant that people who are sinners and don't believe in God.They have no goal in their life,it pretty much becomes useless even if there is no belief in Afterlife.

Oh yeah, sorry. It was Pyrmon saying that wasn't the case.
No problem!

And on me, quite hard to say. Probably more of a naturalistic pantheist though I have a lot more shared values and morals with Atheists than most others. EDIT: A Stoic if you must.

Very briefly can you please explain about pantheism and stoic.Sorry but I am not familiar with these.

QUOTE

But really you can't see the injustice? Well lets try a little role reversal. For the sake of argument you die and find the Christians where right and you where wrong. You have no way to know this before you die. Apart from not believing the way to the Lord is through Jesus you have lived a perfectly good life. But you're going to hell anyway. Is that justice?

Does Christianity say that the ones who believe in Allah which is very similar or the same as their God will go to hell.
If yes then it will be very disappointing and devastating.
If I am an Atheist than i won't say that I lived a perfectly good life because a perfectly good life can only be judged by the principals laid by the TRUE Religion.
Nearly all Atheists are aware of Religions such as Christianity, Judaism and Islam.................It is better to follow one instead of following none.As far as Atheists and Polytheists are concerned I think they will go to Hell but still Allah can reward their good deeds if He wants.
For those Atheists who don't know about Islam I have no idea!

 

[xist]

My personal feeling on all religion is that it's an abnegation of personal responsibility as you're reliant upon an "instruction manual" for guidance and living under the constant threat of divine punishment. Doing the right thing because it's the moral and responsible course of action is far better than doing it because whichever religious body you follow told you to, and those of no faith can often be far less judgemental and opinionated as they make up their own minds on difficult matters (rather than being guided down a path by a belief system).

Why is it a mandatory requirement of being a good person to believe in an afterlife? Many people live the best way they can and are generous and kind because in itself that's it's own reward....there's no need of some paradise after death.

If you need a crutch to guide you down the moral path doesn't that make you less entitled to some mythical reward?

Note - these are my views on religion...i don't judge people based upon their faith. They're entitled to their beliefs so long as i'm entitled to mine.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

I'd really have to argue that no Afterlife means no goal in life. For me it makes this life much more important. Now neither am I saying the opposite is the case either, but I'm sure we both know people who so believe that this world is evil and the next life will be so much better that they would commit suicide just to get there if it wasn't a sin. And some try to find ways around that...

Very briefly can you please explain about pantheism and stoic.Sorry but I am not familiar with these.

Arrg, how to keep this simple. A naturalistic pantheist believes that the universe is God, and everything in it is part of God. But there is no supernatural element to God.

Does Christianity say that the ones who believe in Allah which is very similar or the same as their God will go to hell.

Some would, some wouldn't. Think of it as the same sort of difference you and Pyrmon have in interpretation. It obviously doesn't mention Allah as that particular name of God wasn't known then.

If yes then it will be very disappointing and devastating.

Would it be fair? Could you reasonably accept that as justice when there is nothing in this life that can help give reasonable evidence to which one is right?

QUOTE

If I am an Atheist than i won't say that I lived a perfectly good life because a perfectly good life can only be judged by the principals laid by the TRUE Religion.

No, if you where an Atheist you wouldn't say that at all. Again they have had no reasonable evidence that the Bible was right until death the same as you.

And remember, in this hypothetical situation Christianity has turned out to be the TRUE Religion.

 

[Magmorph]

Would God send someone who never heard of a deity to hell for not following him? If he does then he is unjust. If he doesn't then why would you tell me about him?
I'm not sure I understand correctly the meaning of your last sentence. Could you rephrase?
But, yes, a person who lived a good life but never heard of Islam would theoretically go to heaven.

A person who had never heard of Islam would have no idea what that God considers to be a good life. Why would you tell someone about God if they would go to hell for not believing?

QUOTE(ProtoKun7 @ Jul 13 2011, 07:59 AM)

Except in reality people aren't sent to eternal torture in hell. If God is loving he wouldn't subject anyone to that.
Think about it. "Hell" is the grave; the state of being dead. Jesus was dead, so he went to the grave, the same as other humans. He was perfect and did not sin at all, so for him to go to the same place as people are believed to be tortured forever would be a massive failing of justice.

I'm just going to generalize it and say hell is worse than heaven. I think most people can agree on that point. You didn't answer my question though.

 

[notmeanymore]

Would God send someone who never heard of a deity to hell for not following him? If he does then he is unjust. If he doesn't then why would you tell me about him?

I'm not sure I understand correctly the meaning of your last sentence. Could you rephrase?
But, yes, a person who lived a good life but never heard of Islam would theoretically go to heaven.

A person who had never heard of Islam would have no idea what that God considers to be a good life. Why would you tell someone about God if they would go to hell for not believing?

Those places which have not heard of God knew of Him at some point.
Proof: The world started with Adam & Eve alone. Those 2 spawned the generations of which we are now a part of. They believed in God, for they walked with God personally, so they taught about Him to their children, most of whom (not Cain) were also righteous, God-fearing individuals; but from that generation onward, it can be assumed there was a split in the beliefs, likely starting at Cain. The world became so evil because it forgot who God is. A world that does not fear God, is one that thinks it need not worry about the consequences of any action.

I'll stop here before I start ranting.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

A world that does not fear God, is one that thinks it need not worry about the consequences of any action.

I'll stop here before I start ranting.

Complete and utter bull.

And your "proof" is also a complete load of bull. You cannot use scripture to prove scripture.

 

[Magmorph]

Would God send someone who never heard of a deity to hell for not following him? If he does then he is unjust. If he doesn't then why would you tell me about him?

I'm not sure I understand correctly the meaning of your last sentence. Could you rephrase?
But, yes, a person who lived a good life but never heard of Islam would theoretically go to heaven.

A person who had never heard of Islam would have no idea what that God considers to be a good life. Why would you tell someone about God if they would go to hell for not believing?

Those places which have not heard of God knew of Him at some point.
Proof: The world started with Adam & Eve alone. Those 2 spawned the generations of which we are now a part of. They believed in God, for they walked with God personally, so they taught about Him to their children, most of whom (not Cain) were also righteous, God-fearing individuals; but from that generation onward, it can be assumed there was a split in the beliefs, likely starting at Cain. The world became so evil because it forgot who God is. A world that does not fear God, is one that thinks it need not worry about the consequences of any action.

I'll stop here before I start ranting.

Assume everything you say here is correct. God would send people to hell simply because their parents didn't pass down the correct beliefs?

 

[notmeanymore]

A world that does not fear God, is one that thinks it need not worry about the consequences of any action.

I'll stop here before I start ranting.

Complete and utter bull.

And your "proof" is also a complete load of bull. You cannot use scripture to prove scripture.

I was proving a point that is not written down in scripture. I had to use logic and time events written in the Bible to come to my conclusion, which is fine because the question was asked under an assumption that the God of the Bible is real. Read it with me again:

"Would God send someone who never heard of a deity to hell for not following him?"

This question can and should be answered by members of every religion. I was taking the time to show the Christian's view on that question.

QUOTE(Magmorph @ Jul 13 2011, 03:16 AM)

Would God send someone who never heard of a deity to hell for not following him? If he does then he is unjust. If he doesn't then why would you tell me about him?

I'm not sure I understand correctly the meaning of your last sentence. Could you rephrase?
But, yes, a person who lived a good life but never heard of Islam would theoretically go to heaven.

A person who had never heard of Islam would have no idea what that God considers to be a good life. Why would you tell someone about God if they would go to hell for not believing?

Those places which have not heard of God knew of Him at some point.
Proof: The world started with Adam & Eve alone. Those 2 spawned the generations of which we are now a part of. They believed in God, for they walked with God personally, so they taught about Him to their children, most of whom (not Cain) were also righteous, God-fearing individuals; but from that generation onward, it can be assumed there was a split in the beliefs, likely starting at Cain. The world became so evil because it forgot who God is. A world that does not fear God, is one that thinks it need not worry about the consequences of any action.

I'll stop here before I start ranting.

Assume everything you say here is correct. God would send people to hell simply because their parents didn't pass down the correct beliefs?

No truly God-loving parent would not share Him with their children. It's the child's decision to reject God.

 

[Magmorph]

No truly God-loving parent would not share Him with their children. It's the child's decision to reject God.

The child would have no decision if they were never told of God.

 

[Foxi4]

No truly God-loving parent would not share Him with their children. It's the child's decision to reject God.

The child would have no decision if they were never told of God.

A part of the baptising oath Christian parents tell at the church when their child is baptised is that they will do their best to raise the child according to Christian values and that the child will be informed about the gospel. A "God-Loving" parent probably should follow the oath given to God himself.

You can't reject something you don't know, by the way.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

I'm really surprised that no one has brought up there can not exist an all knowing, all powerful God and there be free will at the same time.

 

[Magmorph]

No truly God-loving parent would not share Him with their children. It's the child's decision to reject God.
The child would have no decision if they were never told of God.


A part of the baptising oath Christian parents tell at the church when their child is baptised is that they will do their best to raise the child according to Christian values and that the child will be informed about the gospel. A "God-Loving" parent probably should follow the oath given to God himself.

You can't reject something you don't know, by the way.

That's the point I'm trying to get across. You can't reject something you don't know. Why would you tell anyone if there was any chance of them rejecting it?

QUOTE(cwstjdenobs @ Jul 13 2011, 10:31 AM)

I'm really surprised that no one has brought up there can not exist an all knowing, all powerful God and there be free will at the same time.

I would have brought that up but God is a moving goalpost. People will start arguing that God can choose not to know things or doesn't actually know everything.

 

[ProtoKun7]

I'm just going to generalize it and say hell is worse than heaven. I think most people can agree on that point. You didn't answer my question though.
Which question?

QUOTE(Magmorph @ Jul 13 2011, 05:35 PM) I would have brought that up but God is a moving goalpost. People will start arguing that God can choose not to know things or doesn't actually know everything.

Foreknowledge is like a sense, like vision.
You aren't forced to always use your eyes.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

I would have brought that up but God is a moving goalpost. People will start arguing that God can choose not to know things or doesn't actually know everything.

Foreknowledge is like a sense, like vision.
You aren't forced to always use your eyes.

But by choosing (or even being able to make the choice) not to use his "eyes" he's not being all knowing, so isn't that God any more.

 

[Ringo619]

my whole family believes in jesus and god , they are all christians but i don't i just don't see how people blindly follow something like this , there is no proof such a man ever lived or walked on the earth , this is what i think and i know other people have their different views i just can't still believe what they say from the bible , that anyone could have written whats in the bible and people foolishly follow it , i respect people following their own religion just not my thing. so what im trying to say is ,if you are a thinker and who does't believe in anything they hear unless they can prove , its hard to follow something like Christianity

 

[spinal_cord]

Those places which have not heard of God knew of Him at some point.
Proof: The world started with Adam & Eve alone. Those 2 spawned the generations of which we are now a part of.

Then tell me why we don't all have six fingers on each had and flippers. It is a well known fact that inbreeding causes genetic abnormalities. Oh wait, that'll be those silly facts getting in the way of a good story.

I understand the fact that some people need to find help by following these religions, I also understand that many people who follow a religion had no say in it and were trained from birth to follow them. I do not understand how anyone can say that they are based on any sort of truth. Just because a really old book has something written in it does not make it true. These holy books show no 'proof' of any sort of God at all. I have yet to see a religious argument for doing something that can not be completely wiped out by logic and common sense.

 

[notmeanymore]

That's the point I'm trying to get across. You can't reject something you don't know. Why would you tell anyone if there was any chance of them rejecting it?

What cowardice. That's like saying you'll never ask a girl out for fear of being turned down.

QUOTE(Magmorph @ Jul 13 2011, 05:35 PM) I would have brought that up but God is a moving goalpost. People will start arguing that God can choose not to know things or doesn't actually know everything.

Foreknowledge is like a sense, like vision.
You aren't forced to always use your eyes.

But by choosing (or even being able to make the choice) not to use his "eyes" he's not being all knowing, so isn't that God any more.

I'm not sure if ProtoKun is right or wrong. He has a good idea, and so do I. I'll never truly understand God until I meet him myself, but my theory is that God knows all possibilities and their outcomes and watches as Man picks his course.

 

[Veho]

It is a well known fact that inbreeding causes genetic abnormalities.

No it doesn't.

 

[Magmorph]

That's the point I'm trying to get across. You can't reject something you don't know. Why would you tell anyone if there was any chance of them rejecting it?

What cowardice. That's like saying you'll never ask a girl out for fear of being turned down.

The condition of being rejected by a girl is not a one way ticket to hell. That analogy is pretty horrible.

 

[notmeanymore]

What cowardice. That's like saying you'll never ask a girl out for fear of being turned down.

The condition of being rejected by a girl is not a one way ticket to hell. That analogy is pretty horrible.

You're understanding it wrong.

You asked why a parent (or anyone else for that matter) would dare share their beliefs if there was any chance of rejection.
Fear of rejection is no reason to not try, and is just a cowardly excuse.