Microsoft to reduce its PC game sales cut on Microsoft Store to 12%

micro store.jpg

Starting this August 1st, Microsoft will take less of a profit from game sales through the Microsoft Store. As from that date, developers' share of Microsoft Store PC games sales net revenue will increase to 88%, from 70%. The news comes from a blog post shared today by Matt Booty, Head of Xbox Game Studios.

“Game developers are at the heart of bringing great games to our players, and we want them to find success on our platforms,” reads the post. “A clear, no-strings-attached revenue share means developers can bring more games to more players and find greater commercial success from doing so.”

This readjustment to the Windows Store cut matches its offer to that of the Epic Games Store. This puts pressure on Valve whose Steam distribution platform still takes a 30% cut on sales from its store (reduced to 25% a game hits $10 million in sales and to 20% for every sale after $50 million).

However, Microsoft acknowledges that its share of the market is still lagging behind. "We know that we still have a lot of work to do, but based on the response from both PC gamers and PC game developers, we think that we’re headed in the right direction for this community with the investments we’re making," writes Matt Booty in today's post.

In addition, he writes that they are bringing "more quality-of-life improvements to PC gamers, including improved install reliability and faster download speeds over the next few months." Details about those improvements will be shared at a later date.

What do you think of Microsoft's readjustment? Do you think Steam will follow suit?

:arrow: SOURCE
 

The Real Jdbye

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This is good, it's just too bad that Microsoft Store is fundamentally trash and this isn't going to solve that. But we have Microsoft and Epic both cutting the fees now, if everyone else follows suit maybe Valve will eventually too. At least we can hope.
 

VartioArtel

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I want to make a point here:

What this is doing can be considered flexing monopoly power. The effect of this being either profitable or not does not care if a company has sufficient funds, if an average new company cannot afford to run those #s, in theory, it is a monopolistic %.

Let's use Epic Lame Store for example, who's using these #s. This model's completely unreasonable, and they're draining millions a year on the Epic Game Store because the system's not proftable at 12% with the # of users/active purchasers they got, which is still in the millions (I am not sure about the exact amount, let's say 100s of millions).

If the 12% became industry standard, any new companies would immediately be forced out because they'd need to cope with millions of dollars in losses a year. This makes it in function a monopoly handled by big-name companies which cannot be competed against.

This is why the ~30% system has been in play for so long. It allowed profit even at the lowest level, or at least more reasonable losses for the first few years. Epic is not expected to be profittable until ~ a year after the Epic Lame Store launched.

Microsoft's trying to make a point in order to get more publishers on board, but really it can also be perceived as flexing their massive userbase and/or stockpile of expendable investiture cash in order to hold onto a bad state until it IS profitable.

This would only create a monopoly in the long run. It's dangerous to the market as a whole.

"But isn't 30% excessive?"

30% is how much basically every company/store in the world charges for any product they put up front for that isn't their own. Whether it's Best Buy, your local supermarket, so on and so forth. This has been the industry standard since the PS3 era when Digital gaming really launched, if not before. This isn't for the consumers, this is just trying to weed out competition by making publishers/devs favor their platforms.

Edit
"But the 12% favors us right?"

The 12% doesn't affect the consumer at all. The price of a game won't magically change from $60 to about $45 because they change from 30% to 12%. Rather, it just means the publishers get that 18% difference instead of Micro$oft and Epic. But as I noted above - this is more about trying to make things less profitable for companies without the userbase or excessive cash flow from other departments, than to actually improve conditions for developers/publishers.
 
Last edited by VartioArtel,

ZeroFX

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thats how you do it, provide your games, release them on other platforms as well AND reduce the cut Cool huh?! While ofc having reviews, dont leaking users user/pw, etc (long list).

Also i dont care to this cut at all, wont affect the prices, no advantage for me so whatever.
 
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Snintendog

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I want to make a point here:

What this is doing can be considered flexing monopoly power. The effect of this being either profitable or not does not care if a company has sufficient funds, if an average new company cannot afford to run those #s, in theory, it is a monopolistic %.

Let's use Epic Lame Store for example, who's using these #s. This model's completely unreasonable, and they're draining millions a year on the Epic Game Store because the system's not proftable at 12% with the # of users/active purchasers they got, which is still in the millions (I am not sure about the exact amount, let's say 100s of millions).

If the 12% became industry standard, any new companies would immediately be forced out because they'd need to cope with millions of dollars in losses a year. This makes it in function a monopoly handled by big-name companies which cannot be competed against.

This is why the ~30% system has been in play for so long. It allowed profit even at the lowest level, or at least more reasonable losses for the first few years. Epic is not expected to be profittable until ~ a year after the Epic Lame Store launched.

Microsoft's trying to make a point in order to get more publishers on board, but really it can also be perceived as flexing their massive userbase and/or stockpile of expendable investiture cash in order to hold onto a bad state until it IS profitable.

This would only create a monopoly in the long run. It's dangerous to the market as a whole.

"But isn't 30% excessive?"

30% is how much basically every company/store in the world charges for any product they put up front for that isn't their own. Whether it's Best Buy, your local supermarket, so on and so forth. This has been the industry standard since the PS3 era when Digital gaming really launched, if not before. This isn't for the consumers, this is just trying to weed out competition by making publishers/devs favor their platforms.

Edit
"But the 12% favors us right?"

The 12% doesn't affect the consumer at all. The price of a game won't magically change from $60 to about $45 because they change from 30% to 12%. Rather, it just means the publishers get that 18% difference instead of Micro$oft and Epic. But as I noted above - this is more about trying to make things less profitable for companies without the userbase or excessive cash flow from other departments, than to actually improve conditions for developers/publishers.

Honestly I'd rather Steam or GOG get their 30% rather than publishers pocketing it you KNOW that the devs wont see a cent of the savings from it unless they self publish anyway which Steam and GOG allows fairly easily for them to do because of the 30%.
 

ChaosEternal

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Honestly I'd rather Steam or GOG get their 30% rather than publishers pocketing it you KNOW that the devs wont see a cent of the savings from it unless they self publish anyway which Steam and GOG allows fairly easily for them to do because of the 30%.
Unless they remove you for offending the CCP, lul.
 

krakenx

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GOG provides value by providing DRM free games. Steam adds a ton of value with Remote Play Together, GameStream, Proton for Linux, Big Picture, controller remapping, cloud saving, and more. Arguably Steam is even better than DRM free.

Meanwhile, the Windows store has so much DRM you can't even back up your saves, install mods, or even run games in true fullscreen. Unless all this has changed, I wouldn't use the Windows store if everything was free.
 
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Windows store has so much DRM you can't even back up your saves, install mods, or even run games in true fullscreen.
these are all on a per game basis, some games require you to manually back up your save file because cloud saves aren't offered to begin with, and others support manual backing up if you know where the save file is located

some games do exclusive fullscreen

and skyrim, fallout 4, oblivion, starbound and whatever else i can't think of are on the windows store with mod support so there are some games that support mods, there's also a "ModifiableWindowsApps" folder that you can install mods to for the other games that i can't think of
 

Xzi

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The only thing reducing their cut does is attract more publishers, but I didn't think Microsoft was having any trouble with that before. If you want to attract more users, it's all about enhancing their experience through streamlining and adding more features to your storefront, as well as reducing/eliminating unnecessary DRM. The way the Xbox app and Windows store encrypt game files is a fucking nightmare for modders, ini tweakers, and anyone who wants to backup their saves.
 
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Redferne

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Honestly I'd rather Steam or GOG get their 30% rather than publishers pocketing it you KNOW that the devs wont see a cent of the savings from it unless they self publish anyway which Steam and GOG allows fairly easily for them to do because of the 30%.
Assuming that devs not getting money from publisher is true, which is not for the vast majority of contracts, you do realise that if publishers don't get money they don't publish games? If they don't publish games, devs don't get money to make game. Publishers are still an important source of money for devs.
So no, Steam and GOG keeping their 30% share, does not benefit devs.
 

Purple_Shyguy

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Valve/Steam have been an awful company for near a decade now. Its so strange people haven't realised yet. The Stockholm syndrome is strong.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I want to make a point here:

What this is doing can be considered flexing monopoly power. The effect of this being either profitable or not does not care if a company has sufficient funds, if an average new company cannot afford to run those #s, in theory, it is a monopolistic %.

Let's use Epic Lame Store for example, who's using these #s. This model's completely unreasonable, and they're draining millions a year on the Epic Game Store because the system's not proftable at 12% with the # of users/active purchasers they got, which is still in the millions (I am not sure about the exact amount, let's say 100s of millions).

If the 12% became industry standard, any new companies would immediately be forced out because they'd need to cope with millions of dollars in losses a year. This makes it in function a monopoly handled by big-name companies which cannot be competed against.

This is why the ~30% system has been in play for so long. It allowed profit even at the lowest level, or at least more reasonable losses for the first few years. Epic is not expected to be profittable until ~ a year after the Epic Lame Store launched.

Microsoft's trying to make a point in order to get more publishers on board, but really it can also be perceived as flexing their massive userbase and/or stockpile of expendable investiture cash in order to hold onto a bad state until it IS profitable.

This would only create a monopoly in the long run. It's dangerous to the market as a whole.

"But isn't 30% excessive?"

30% is how much basically every company/store in the world charges for any product they put up front for that isn't their own. Whether it's Best Buy, your local supermarket, so on and so forth. This has been the industry standard since the PS3 era when Digital gaming really launched, if not before. This isn't for the consumers, this is just trying to weed out competition by making publishers/devs favor their platforms.

Edit
"But the 12% favors us right?"

The 12% doesn't affect the consumer at all. The price of a game won't magically change from $60 to about $45 because they change from 30% to 12%. Rather, it just means the publishers get that 18% difference instead of Micro$oft and Epic. But as I noted above - this is more about trying to make things less profitable for companies without the userbase or excessive cash flow from other departments, than to actually improve conditions for developers/publishers.
You: "4+ seperate store fronts is a monopoly"
 

VartioArtel

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Valve/Steam have been an awful company for near a decade now. Its so strange people haven't realised yet. The Stockholm syndrome is strong.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


You: "4+ seperate store fronts is a monopoly"

If only 4 companies can afford to be in a market because they strongarm any competition out because they have money to burn due to collusion (which this can arguably be framed as)?

Yes. By practice, oligopolies (the practice of a market being dominated by 2+ companies) can be deemed a monopoly in practice. The courts would consider how the practice leads to a complete strong-arming of competition out of the field due to completely unreasonable feasible costs that other companies cannot afford (to quote: "Collusion might involve two rival competitors conspiring together to gain an unfair market advantage through coordinated price-fixing or increases.") It's something NO major company wants to have investigations about, because it's rather easy to come to a conclusion if say the president of Microsoft had any call with Tim Sweeney before the initial decision to support Epic.

If a group of super-rich companies decide to suddenly disrupt the market and drop the average stocking fee from 30% to 12%, suddenly it can and will have an outreach. Companies which require that 30% to remain profittable, some of which may be subsidiaries like... let's say GOG? Those companies will be forced into a situation where their profits are cut by over half.

Let that sink in. Profits would cut more than half in that method (60% actually). Unless that company's making a massive source of money from other sources (IE: Gamestop, who doesn't give companies the cut but pockets it due to attempting legal loopholes through resales), a LOT of companies in that end will SINK under the profit margin line considering all the money/deals they need to invest in order to even get the game offers. This is excluding website fees, maybe server fees, employee fees for CS or for ensuring the business runs smoothly, so on and so forth.

This especially affects the online markets, again, because odds are their main product is going to be those games. Again, right now Epic Lame Store is losing money and will be expected to lose money for at least a decade after the store launched, and that's in epic's own estimates.

Now let's say they aren't Epic Games, who have a nearly bottomless well of money stored from video games over the last 2 decades. Let's say they want to start up a business in the game distribution market. This market would be feasibly unaccessable, because a small group of companies are all offering publishers 12% cuts. But in order for your company to profit, you need let's say even a 25% cut instead of Apple's 30% (Apple and Steam of which includes other functions could argue that 5%).

No publisher would want to do business with you if you're asking for a 25% cut instead of the 12% cut. You can try to garner a fanbase, attempt to overcome the deficit you'd be taking each year, but you'd probably collapse underneath the lack of a userbase sooner or later. This would fall under a monopoly in that these companies are preventing other companies from even being able to get off the ground because of the fact they could afford to throw way too much investment into a cash guzzling storefront until they stabilize nearly a decade later.

Other companies have shut down functions for less loss than this per year. And I'm not limiting that to just gaming distribution websites.

The only sort of legalised monopoly is called a 'natural' monopoly. It's usually done because of a superior product wherein people don't care about higher prices because of what's on offer is often done so with higher quality. Also it can happen simply because a company has access to an extremely unique or limited resource (including geography - see Phone/Power Lines). In short, this sort of monopoly is supposed to occur rather naturally.

However, it's not like this falls under a 'high-investment' Start-Up cost, has limited resources, etc. A high startup cost caused by competitors is not 'natural', it's artificial, and rather easy to argue. And digital games are not limited. This whole definition would be REALLY easy to argue in court. They're arguing 30% is attempting to keep too much money, but 12% could be argued in the opposite way.

Edit: Let's say that you're trying to sell to me a website for $500. However then suddenly @Chary decides to offer me a website for $200. You need the $500 in order to remain viable in business, or else you'd begin to fall under a reasonable profit margin. Chary can afford to sell websites at $200 because of GBATemp and writing articles makes them enough to recoup (example, not true). You wouldn't be able to compete because why would someone want to spend $500 on you (30%) when we can spent $200 on Chary (12%).

This is a good way of looking at this whole situation. (OFC I will yield, maybe you only need 20-25% to remain profitable for a lesser company. But that would only make a point that 12% is monopolistic competitive pricing attempting to strongarm out any competition).

Of course, I doubt you'll bother reading all this, and probably ignore bits of what I say and argue something I've already explained rather thoroughly.
 
Last edited by VartioArtel,
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leon315

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at least ms has the advantage of windows store being built in unlike epic which has been trying to grab market share from steam, that said I doubt anything will change.
Things will indeed have further impact on how developers's decision on which platform for initial release: some companies now opted to release new games on EGS 1st then later on STEAM for better cut of revenue, this move will indeed encourage more publishers evaluate more early releases on M$ store or EGS rather than STEAM.
 

Purple_Shyguy

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If only 4 companies can afford to be in a market because they strongarm any competition out because they have money to burn due to collusion (which this can arguably be framed as)?

Yes. By practice, oligopolies (the practice of a market being dominated by 2+ companies) can be deemed a monopoly in practice. The courts would consider how the practice leads to a complete strong-arming of competition out of the field due to completely unreasonable feasible costs that other companies cannot afford (to quote: "Collusion might involve two rival competitors conspiring together to gain an unfair market advantage through coordinated price-fixing or increases.") It's something NO major company wants to have investigations about, because it's rather easy to come to a conclusion if say the president of Microsoft had any call with Tim Sweeney before the initial decision to support Epic.

If a group of super-rich companies decide to suddenly disrupt the market and drop the average stocking fee from 30% to 12%, suddenly it can and will have an outreach. Companies which require that 30% to remain profittable, some of which may be subsidiaries like... let's say GOG? Those companies will be forced into a situation where their profits are cut by over half.

Let that sink in. Profits would cut more than half in that method (60% actually). Unless that company's making a massive source of money from other sources (IE: Gamestop, who doesn't give companies the cut but pockets it due to attempting legal loopholes through resales), a LOT of companies in that end will SINK under the profit margin line considering all the money/deals they need to invest in order to even get the game offers. This is excluding website fees, maybe server fees, employee fees for CS or for ensuring the business runs smoothly, so on and so forth.

This especially affects the online markets, again, because odds are their main product is going to be those games. Again, right now Epic Lame Store is losing money and will be expected to lose money for at least a decade after the store launched, and that's in epic's own estimates.

Now let's say they aren't Epic Games, who have a nearly bottomless well of money stored from video games over the last 2 decades. Let's say they want to start up a business in the game distribution market. This market would be feasibly unaccessable, because a small group of companies are all offering publishers 12% cuts. But in order for your company to profit, you need let's say even a 25% cut instead of Apple's 30% (Apple and Steam of which includes other functions could argue that 5%).

No publisher would want to do business with you if you're asking for a 25% cut instead of the 12% cut. You can try to garner a fanbase, attempt to overcome the deficit you'd be taking each year, but you'd probably collapse underneath the lack of a userbase sooner or later. This would fall under a monopoly in that these companies are preventing other companies from even being able to get off the ground because of the fact they could afford to throw way too much investment into a cash guzzling storefront until they stabilize nearly a decade later.

Other companies have shut down functions for less loss than this per year. And I'm not limiting that to just gaming distribution websites.

The only sort of legalised monopoly is called a 'natural' monopoly. It's usually done because of a superior product wherein people don't care about higher prices because of what's on offer is often done so with higher quality. Also it can happen simply because a company has access to an extremely unique or limited resource (including geography - see Phone/Power Lines). In short, this sort of monopoly is supposed to occur rather naturally.

However, it's not like this falls under a 'high-investment' Start-Up cost, has limited resources, etc. A high startup cost caused by competitors is not 'natural', it's artificial, and rather easy to argue. And digital games are not limited. This whole definition would be REALLY easy to argue in court. They're arguing 30% is attempting to keep too much money, but 12% could be argued in the opposite way.

Edit: Let's say that you're trying to sell to me a website for $500. However then suddenly @Chary decides to offer me a website for $200. You need the $500 in order to remain viable in business, or else you'd begin to fall under a reasonable profit margin. Chary can afford to sell websites at $200 because of GBATemp and writing articles makes them enough to recoup (example, not true). You wouldn't be able to compete because why would someone want to spend $500 on you (30%) when we can spent $200 on Chary (12%).

This is a good way of looking at this whole situation. (OFC I will yield, maybe you only need 20-25% to remain profitable for a lesser company. But that would only make a point that 12% is monopolistic competitive pricing attempting to strongarm out any competition).

Of course, I doubt you'll bother reading all this, and probably ignore bits of what I say and argue something I've already explained rather thoroughly.
TL;DR lol
 

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