Obama Administration Announces Massive Piracy Crackdown

[worlok375]

..........Thought I was in another thread, didn't mean to post here.

 

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

I like free shit just as much as the next guy and I really can't imagine that there are people who pirate more than I do, but with that being said... What exactly is everyone getting so worked up about? I mean we do understand that morally there is no justification for the theft of luxury items (Games, Movies, Songs etc) and piracy is theft, right? The argument that that government is encroaching on our freedom to do what we will with the products we own, is asinine. Upon purchasing a protected media you agree to the terms, namely you will not duplicate the media. Those terms are clear. If you don't like the terms you don't have to enter into the agreement; simply don't buy it. If we were talking about essential shit then we could have a intelligent conversation about this, but the fact remains you don't need to hear that new album or play that new game. There is nothing noble about piracy, no matter how much you romanticize in your own head. We are thieves, lets at least be honest with ourselves about that.

I will say this though; piracy is ubiquitous. Save for God himself parting the clouds and placing a plague upon all who pirate, piracy will never end. So you all can revel in that I suppose, just stop deluding yourselves with the justifications of children.

No moral justification for the "theft" of luxury items? Your argument rests upon the assumption that the masses hold the lion's share of purchasing power in the world economy today, and that the abuse of such power is 'immoral.' This would be a solid stance, were it not for the fact that it doesn't match present or even past situations. The economic failures can be traced directly to the very financial magnates who the current administration has bailed out, and allowed to rake in record bonuses topping previous years. The advent of DRM and similar measures for digital media attest to this reality. Why would the group with superior market control ask for such measures? Perhaps Halliburton and Ford's situations wasn't enough of an advance alert in this regard. No matter.

Ultimately, for the crimes of this wealthy milieu, their debts are forced onto the backs of the masses, and furthermore, their health care is being whored out to private insurance companies who almost give no guarantees of quality. Are these exploiters not "thieves" as you stated? Why then do you cast the masses into the same camp as they, when the so-called "balance of power" touted by the media is essentially an oxymoron? You seem to be arguing in favor of the oppressors, and in one fell swoop, hold their victims responsible since inevitably they resort to shadier means under such conditions.

Your argument is to "simply don't buy it," because the "fact remains you don't need to hear that new album or play that new game." Who are you to dictate such terms? Whether they "need" it or not is immaterial. Perhaps piracy cannot be justified, or "romanticized", as you say. Regardless, digital piracy has a source, and it lies in the incrementally increasing cost of a decent standard of living, which the masses don't get to decide. The perpetrators of this hypocrisy are to blame because they brazenly created the conditions for digital piracy. For you to simply tar-brush those who pirate only demonstrates how your interpretation doesn't go beyond that of a mole's spectacles.

 

[vhunter]

I remember photocopying the textbooks in my university's library because I was too poor to buy them. Stopping me from photocopying the books wasn't going to make me want to buy them. I'd probably just check them out repeatedly from the library.

The same can be said of online piracy. If I was a pirate and I was going to buy the damn thing, I would have done so eventually/already. Stopping me from pirating isn't going to make me want to buy it. I'd probably just do something else with the time I have (like studying or working) or borrow whatever-it-is from my friends. So I'm really dubious of the claim that there is even 2% of sales being affected here.

Whatever the truth may be, I am sure that this new anti-piracy crackdown will neither erase piracy nor boost sales in any significant amount. If these companies are in trouble, it's because they have a shitty business model, not because pirates are choking their revenue streams.

This is what I think, I would never buy any of the pc games I have gotten through piracy. I'm actually to young to even get a job but even so I wouldn't waste my money some half-assed games. I understand normal means of anti piracy protection, such as "no cd key no online" but accusing us of crap before anything really being done, that's just moronic. I'm sure that even less than 2% would actually buy the game if it wasn't for piracy, specially considering that you'll support the companies you like.

 

[Nimbus]

I like free shit just as much as the next guy and I really can't imagine that there are people who pirate more than I do, but with that being said... What exactly is everyone getting so worked up about? I mean we do understand that morally there is no justification for the theft of luxury items (Games, Movies, Songs etc) and piracy is theft, right? The argument that that government is encroaching on our freedom to do what we will with the products we own, is asinine. Upon purchasing a protected media you agree to the terms, namely you will not duplicate the media. Those terms are clear. If you don't like the terms you don't have to enter into the agreement; simply don't buy it. If we were talking about essential shit then we could have a intelligent conversation about this, but the fact remains you don't need to hear that new album or play that new game. There is nothing noble about piracy, no matter how much you romanticize in your own head. We are thieves, lets at least be honest with ourselves about that.

I will say this though; piracy is ubiquitous. Save for God himself parting the clouds and placing a plague upon all who pirate, piracy will never end. So you all can revel in that I suppose, just stop deluding yourselves with the justifications of children.

No moral justification for the "theft" of luxury items? Your argument rests upon the assumption that the masses hold the lion's share of purchasing power in the world economy today, and that the abuse of such power is 'immoral.' This would be a solid stance, were it not for the fact that it doesn't match present or even past situations. The economic failures can be traced directly to the very financial magnates who the current administration has bailed out, and allowed to rake in record bonuses topping previous years. The advent of DRM and similar measures for digital media attest to this reality. Why would the group with superior market control ask for such measures? Perhaps Halliburton and Ford's situations wasn't enough of an advance alert in this regard. No matter.

Ultimately, for the crimes of this wealthy milieu, their debts are forced onto the backs of the masses, and furthermore, their health care is being whored out to private insurance companies who almost give no guarantees of quality. Are these exploiters not "thieves" as you stated? Why then do you cast the masses into the same camp as they, when the so-called "balance of power" touted by the media is essentially an oxymoron? You seem to be arguing in favor of the oppressors, and in one fell swoop, hold their victims responsible since inevitably they resort to shadier means under such conditions.

Your argument is to "simply don't buy it," because the "fact remains you don't need to hear that new album or play that new game." Who are you to dictate such terms? Whether they "need" it or not is immaterial. Perhaps piracy cannot be justified, or "romanticized", as you say. Regardless, digital piracy has a source, and it lies in the incrementally increasing cost of a decent standard of living, which the masses don't get to decide. The perpetrators of this hypocrisy are to blame because they brazenly created the conditions for digital piracy. For you to simply tar-brush those who pirate only demonstrates how your interpretation doesn't go beyond that of a mole's spectacles.

Dude, you said it. Right on the spot.

God, you even lost me poor Okku in the process. It's bad enough I already have a birdbrained nature.

 

[Rydian]

and piracy is theft, right?

No.
If I take a $50 bill from some old lady, I have deprived her of $50, I have wronged her.
If I download an MP3 from somebody else through a P2P network, their MP3 is left alone. I have not deprived them of anything.

 

[Prophet]

No moral justification for the "theft" of luxury items? Your argument rests upon the assumption that the masses hold the lion's share of purchasing power in the world economy today, and that the abuse of such power is 'immoral.' This would be a solid stance, were it not for the fact that it doesn't match present or even past situations. The economic failures can be traced directly to the very financial magnates who the current administration has bailed out, and allowed to rake in record bonuses topping previous years. The advent of DRM and similar measures for digital media attest to this reality. Why would the group with superior market control ask for such measures? Perhaps Halliburton and Ford's situations wasn't enough of an advance alert in this regard. No matter.

Ultimately, for the crimes of this wealthy milieu, their debts are forced onto the backs of the masses, and furthermore, their health care is being whored out to private insurance companies who almost give no guarantees of quality. Are these exploiters not "thieves" as you stated? Why then do you cast the masses into the same camp as they, when the so-called "balance of power" touted by the media is essentially an oxymoron? You seem to be arguing in favor of the oppressors, and in one fell swoop, hold their victims responsible since inevitably they resort to shadier means under such conditions.

Your argument is to "simply don't buy it," because the "fact remains you don't need to hear that new album or play that new game." Who are you to dictate such terms? Whether they "need" it or not is immaterial. Perhaps piracy cannot be justified, or "romanticized", as you say. Regardless, digital piracy has a source, and it lies in the incrementally increasing cost of a decent standard of living, which the masses don't get to decide. The perpetrators of this hypocrisy are to blame because they brazenly created the conditions for digital piracy. For you to simply tar-brush those who pirate only demonstrates how your interpretation doesn't go beyond that of a mole's spectacles.

This is essentially the romanticized delusion I alluded to earlier. You sir are not "fighting the good fight" in a battle of "us versus them". You are simply a pirate with a slightly more eloquent, but equally infantile justification for your actions. You argue that the system is corrupt. I can agree with you on that point. Where we part ways is in our proposed solutions. You seem to think that we can counter the corrupt system by becoming thieves. So to combat corruption we should partake in corrupt acts? Does that actually solve anything? What stops the system from justifying its own misdeeds in a similar manner as you? "Well consumers steal, why shouldn't corporations?" When you find yourself in the muck you cannot expect to clean yourself off by rolling around in it. If the system is corrupt then you disengage it. You do not buy the overpriced item. That is the only moral form of resistance.

I am puzzled by this line: Who are you to dictate such terms? Whether they "need" it or not is immaterial.

My previous point was simple; if we were to argue over the pirating of textbooks, then well founded points could be made. None the less the majority of the arguments here concern entertainment media. If an impoverished man steals a loaf of bread, the moral implications are complicated. If an impoverished man steals a video game to play, the moral implications are clear-cut. Neither hunger, nor poverty, nor the corruption of the system as a whole, are adequate justifications for stealing that which you do not essentially need. The last time I checked men did not subsist on games, movies or mp3s. These are luxuries by any standard.

But you seem fixated on finding a justification, so allow me to lend you a hand. A proper counter-point to my earlier post would look something like this: If the items we pirate are not basic necessities than the system should not try to convince us that they are. We should not be bombarded by advertisements for luxury items. If I cannot afford to buy an item and it is immoral to steal it, then at the very least companies should not be allowed to try to convince me otherwise. If companies are going to spend millions to indoctrinate us from an early age on the merits of "product X" as an essential component to living an adequate existence, then perhaps I am justified when in lieu of being able to afford the product I simply steal it. Or at least the company should bear some of responsibility, after all they are the ones who convinced me I needed the product to begin with. It's a simple point: I should not steal that which I do not need and companies should not intrusively market items to me that I do not need nor can I afford.

But this is a point far removed from those made thus far. This is a point for those who wish to fix the system, not simply cheat it.

Edit:

QUOTE(Prophet @ Jun 23 2010, 10:11 PM) and piracy is theft, right?

No.
If I take a $50 bill from some old lady, I have deprived her of $50, I have wronged her.
If I download an MP3 from somebody else through a P2P network, their MP3 is left alone. I have not deprived them of anything.

Do you really believe that?

Let's say you own a home and in this home there is an empty room that you do not use. Now let's say I decide to move into that room without your consent. When you saw me moving in you would likely object and I would quote your very own sentiment, “I have not deprived you of anything.” It's not like you were using the room anyway right?

This idea is in opposition to the concept of private property and what I am depriving you of is your right to private property. What a person owns is theirs and we cannot simply decide to do what you will with it under the guise that our interactions with the property will not deprive them of also using it. Furthermore, what if you had been looking to rent the room prior to me moving in? You could argue that I am depriving you of the profit you would have otherwise collected. I know, I know, everyone says piracy doesn't affect sales “I wasn't going to buy the album either way” But what if you had a house with a multitude of rooms and you wanted to rent them out. How else could you justify charging the other tenants rent when I was staying there rent free, unless you prosecuted me?

What you have to understand is that these mediums belong to the respective companies. If you do not like the idea of buying something you cannot legally duplicate, do not buy it. If you do not like a system built around the idea of private property, disengage from it. Socialism FTW?

 

[Midna]

Do you guys do anything but write on forums all day? What are you accomplishing? Do you really believe that you're going to convince the other party to adopt your views?

Edit: Excuse any mistakes. iPhone spellcheck blows.

 

[Rydian]

Edit:

and piracy is theft, right?No.
If I take a $50 bill from some old lady, I have deprived her of $50, I have wronged her.
If I download an MP3 from somebody else through a P2P network, their MP3 is left alone. I have not deprived them of anything.


Do you really believe that?

Let's say you own a home and in this home there is an empty room that you do not use. Now let's say I decide to move into that room without your consent. When you saw me moving in you would likely object and I would quote your very own sentiment, “I have not deprived you of anything.” It's not like you were using the room anyway right?

That's stretching things to incredible limits, dude.

QUOTE(Rydian @ Jun 24 2010, 12:13 AM)

their MP3 is left alone.

As in, it's not modified.
It's a totally different scenario than somebody moving into your home, which is an invasion of privacy and modifies your home (the object in question.
Downloading an MP3 off a P2P network neither invades your privacy nor modifies the original MP3.

Piracy is not theft. This can be seen if you'd actually look at any of the court cases involved (I.E. do a little damn research on a subject you try to talk about). They're not under criminal law (where theft is), they're under civil law (as copyright infringement), not theft.

 

[BoxShot]

We have more important things to do then crack down on people who download things.

Spoiler

Fuck DRM!

 

[girugamarc]

You ever heard of a company who died through Piracy? Don't think so

not a company but the psp died through piracy

No, the DS killed PSP

I don't use torrents, at all. I direct download. Is that slightly more safe than torrents? Or am I equally as screwed as a torrent abuser?

 

[FluffyLunamoth]

*Sighs* HTC's bitching too. Can someone buy me a ticket out of the US? I'm right sick of this hellhole. All it is now is the corporations' playground, and we're becoming the test-dummys. Emphassis on dummies for many people...

 

[Maz7006]

Doubt they could care less here about piracy

heck the power doesn't even come 24 hours a day let alone to worry about piracy issues.

 

[gisel213]

The fact that like 100% of everything used for piracy is legally bought is what these MPAA
RIAA and corrupt govt officials fail to see it's a losing batlle and they will never win!!!!

 

[BlueStar]

I have one thing to say, people, Nov.4 is coming around real soon. It's time to get rid of all of the democrats that hold seats in the senate and in the house. I have no doubt that a lot of democrats will lose their seats anyways, but none the less, we can make sure of it if all of you get out and vote.

That's a bit like saying you want to vote out all the republicans because they're not pro-life enough.

 

[TM2-Megatron]

I have one thing to say, people, Nov.4 is coming around real soon. It's time to get rid of all of the democrats that hold seats in the senate and in the house. I have no doubt that a lot of democrats will lose their seats anyways, but none the less, we can make sure of it if all of you get out and vote.

However, Republicans are no better... they're just as much corporate sell-outs as any other large political party. And I imagine they probably have even less regard for consumer rights than the Democrats, who are simply too spineless to stand up for any issue.

Have you seen the Texas GOP platform, recently? I've got paper airplanes that fly backwards that make it further than most crap spouted by the GOP. You'd be trading spineless cowards for draconian, hypocritical fascists.

 

[Veho]

You ever heard of a company who died through Piracy? Don't think so

not a company but the psp died through piracy

No, the DS killed PSP

Last time i checked, the PSP was alive and well.

 

[TrapperKeeperX]

I have one thing to say, people, Nov.4 is coming around real soon. It's time to get rid of all of the democrats that hold seats in the senate and in the house. I have no doubt that a lot of democrats will lose their seats anyways, but none the less, we can make sure of it if all of you get out and vote.

However, Republicans are no better... they're just as much corporate sell-outs as any other large political party. And I imagine they probably have even less regard for consumer rights than the Democrats, who are simply too spineless to stand up for any issue.

Have you seen the Texas GOP platform, recently? I've got paper airplanes that fly backwards that make it further than most crap spouted by the GOP. You'd be trading spineless cowards for draconian, hypocritical fascists.

I'm going to say this about these fucking hateful inferior human beings they need to die!" Texas GOP Platform Advocates Criminalizing Gay Marriage, Banning Strip Clubs, Pornography " Texas is nothing but a bunch of Wife Beating,Inbred Sister/Cousin Fucking,White Trash,Whitewashed Religious Christians/Southern Baptist,Self Righteous,Ignorant,Close Minded,Corrupted, Bastards! I know that was long but I'm being very serious They need to be wiped off the face of the Earth and you know what they're the ones getting lap dances having gay sex & watching porn! Which I will not doubt for a second. I'm embarrassed that I live in a country with a bunch of Wife Beating,Inbred Sister/Cousin Fucking,White Trash,Whitewashed Religious Christians/Southern Baptist,Self Righteous,Ignorant,Close Minded,Corrupted, Bastards! It's that embarrassing.

 

[Deleted-247497]

I really liked obama so this is extremely disappointing to me, after the healthcare passing it seemed like he was the best prez ever, but now.....well all i can say is thank god for those damn repubicans rejecting everything he says.

edit:

I have one thing to say, people, Nov.4 is coming around real soon. It's time to get rid of all of the democrats that hold seats in the senate and in the house. I have no doubt that a lot of democrats will lose their seats anyways, but none the less, we can make sure of it if all of you get out and vote.

However, Republicans are no better... they're just as much corporate sell-outs as any other large political party. And I imagine they probably have even less regard for consumer rights than the Democrats, who are simply too spineless to stand up for any issue.

Have you seen the Texas GOP platform, recently? I've got paper airplanes that fly backwards that make it further than most crap spouted by the GOP. You'd be trading spineless cowards for draconian, hypocritical fascists.

I'm going to say this about these fucking hateful inferior human beings they need to die!" Texas GOP Platform Advocates Criminalizing Gay Marriage, Banning Strip Clubs, Pornography " Texas is nothing but a bunch of Wife Beating,Inbred Sister/Cousin Fucking,White Trash,Whitewashed Religious Christians/Southern Baptist,Self Righteous,Ignorant,Close Minded,Corrupted, Bastards! I know that was long but I'm being very serious They need to be wiped off the face of the Earth and you know what they're the ones getting lap dances having gay sex & watching porn! Which I will not doubt for a second. I'm embarrassed that I live in a country with a bunch of Wife Beating,Inbred Sister/Cousin Fucking,White Trash,Whitewashed Religious Christians/Southern Baptist,Self Righteous,Ignorant,Close Minded,Corrupted, Bastards! It's that embarrassing.

Hey man I live in Texas (not really texan, moms mexican dads german) Yes 90% of people here are whitebread, Christian republicans, but damn most of them really aren't that bad. This is coming from an atheist democrat. I know there are alot of people like what you described here but really? You want to wipe all Texans off the earth? You need to chill man.

 

[junn]

And the very first line proves they don't know shit.

"It's smash and grab, no different than a guy walking down Fifth Avenue and smashing the window at Tiffany's and reaching in and grabbing what's in the window." -- U.S. VP Joe Biden

Stealing is bad because you deprive the person of what you stole.

When you pirate something, you're making a copy, the original is left alone.
Nobody is deprived of the original object.

The people making the decisions don't know what's actually going on.

you mean like this guide.

Spoiler

 

[referencer]

Hope and pocket change.

Do you really believe that?

Let's say you own a home and in this home there is an empty room that you do not use. Now let's say I decide to move into that room without your consent. When you saw me moving in you would likely object and I would quote your very own sentiment, “I have not deprived you of anything.” It's not like you were using the room anyway right?

And you would be a fuckhead, because you are both depriving me of the ability to use that room and the ability to not have to put up with a jackass moving into my house, and a pile of other things I don't want to bother explaining.
If you built your own room from scratch designed exactly like my spare room down to the atomic structure and then moved into it, pretending it was mine, you would have a relevant analogy. Let's extend that:

Assuming that recreating rooms exactly like this was easily possible and very commonplace, would the fault for "losing profits" be on the hand of the people who copy rooms, or the people who are trying to monetize room designs in a world where it is both easily possible to attain the design without a designer's consent and entirely implausible to enforce rules about what can and can't be recreated without infringing on people's rights?

Digital "property" cannot possibly be defined in the same manner as physical property. You can't make exact copies of physical property without significant effort and loss of other physical materials, you can't take physical property for your own without depriving someone else of it, you can't transfer physical property without physical space, you can't create physical property by shifting ones and zeroes back and forth until they do something. None of these problems exist with digital "property," and yet we're attempting to legislate it based on the paradigms we've developed because of the limitations of physical property. We're trying to dictate what's moral or not based on limitations that do not actually exist.

The digital era has broken the rules. People have discovered that they can just use their own devices to boil the salt out of oceanwater instead of buying all their water from X Corp, and X Corp in retaliation has attempted to outlaw the production of materials in any shape that can potentially be used to boil water. People have realized that they don't have to purchase what there is an infinite supply of freely available, so they're stopping, even though X Corp put so much work into designing a specifically efficient manner of boiling water thinking that they were the only provider.

If you can't make a profit without criminalizing 90% of the populace, then you can't make a profit, too bad, you had your day, go home. We would clearly be better off without you.