On not having children. Some discussion.

[SomecallmeBerto]

Do I want kids?...the short answer is no never.

Long answer; I like children I really do, my mother was a day care provider for most of my teen years so I learned how to get them to listen to you and get along with them. Not knowing how to take care of them is not the issue. It's just I don't want to. I firstly do have the income to support them as kids are VERY expensive, sure there is warfare but I hate how easy it is to abuse this system. No I want to support them on my own 100%. I live a very minimalist lifestyle in which I only make 50K a year however because of this lifestyle I'm able to save a ton of cash really fast and travel around a lot; or I can quit my job tomorrow and be fine without ANY extra income for the next two years. This is what freedom is to me and this is something I value above everything else. I have walk off jobs when I was not able to take my vacations to place XYZ because they needed me.

 

[VinsCool]

I don't want childrens for now. Maybe 8-10 years later.
If of course my GF is still with me by then.

 

[Catastrophic]

I want to have kids with lots of woman, just not look after the kids.



#modern

Sperm banks sure are great, aren't they?

 

[Foxi4]

As a white European I feel that I have a civic duty to have at least two kids, preferably three or more, in order to preserve our lifestyle and culture. We're suffering from a low reproduction rate and if it continues, we might simply go extinct. The pursuit of careers is at fault here, people don't have the time or resources to have children and the effects are obvious - if two people have one child, the next generation will be smaller than the former. Two kids keep the population at the same size. Three and up is an increase and that's the best scenario. This might sound xenophobic but it really isn't - we're dying out and we're being replaced by middle easterners. Houari Boumedienne is credited with the famous quote "The wombs of our women will give us victory" and today more than ever these words ring true. The average western family does not produce enough offspring to sustain itself, the situation is reversed in eastern societies that follow a more traditional family model. If we want the west to survive, we have to start having children again and one is not enough. Western values will die along with westerners unless we do something about it. This wouldn't be a problem if immigrants from the middle east assimilated, but they don't - they create their own pocket societies more often than not.

 

[WiiCube_2013]

As a white European I feel that I have a civic duty to have at least two kids, preferably three or more, in order to preserve our lifestyle and culture. We're suffering from a low reproduction rate and if it continues, we might simply go extinct. The pursuit of careers is at fault here, people don't have the time or resources to have children and the effects are obvious - if two people have one child, the next generation will be smaller than the former. Two kids produce an expansion. Three and up is an increase and that's the best scenario. This might sound xenophobic but it really isn't - we're dying out and we're being replaced by middle easterners. Houari Boumedienne is credited with the famous quote "The wombs of our women will give us victory" and today more than ever these words ring true. The average western family does not produce enough offspring to sustain itself, the situation is reversed in eastern societies that follow a more traditional family model. If we want the west to survive, we have to start having children again and one is not enough. Western values will die along with westerners unless we do something about it. This wouldn't be a problem if immigrants from the middle east assimilated, but they don't - they create their own pocket societies more often than not.

I hate to say it too, but sadly Europe is becoming "Eurabia" as it's getting to be more about middle eastern people and Africans so whites are in a decrease and it saddens me because it's more of foreigners than anything else.

As much as I love my nieces as well as my nephews, I adore them a bit less because they're not white and I know this sounds racist but it just feels like we're losing way too much. *sigh*

Just take UK for example, most Brits have left it or don't live in the centre and due to that the majority of its residents are Arabics, Indians, Pakistans, Africans and all that, and regardless if they call themselves "British" they aren't as their skin colour, roots and blood aren't truly British.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I hate to say it too, but sadly Europe is becoming "Eurabia" as it's getting to be more about middle eastern people and Africans so whites are in a decrease and it saddens me because it's more of foreigners than anything else.

As much as I love my nieces as well as my nephews, I adore them a bit less because they're not white and I know this sounds racist but it just feels like we're losing way too much. *sigh*

Just take UK for example, most Brits have left it or don't live in the centre and due to that the majority of its residents are Arabics, Indians, Pakistans, Africans and all that, and regardless if they call themselves "British" they aren't as their skin colour, roots and blood aren't truly British.

Meh... You are racist (regarding the white part for sure).
Who cares about pure or mixed genetics? Actually mixed genetics is probably best due to gene pool diversity.
The part that I don't like about it is this:

This wouldn't be a problem if immigrants from the middle east assimilated, but they don't - they create their own pocket societies more often than not.

This makes your own culture disappear (not so) slowly, and as much as I kind of give a fuck about genetics, losing one nation's culture is horrible.
I don't like that part of it...

 

[Foxi4]

I'd like to point out that I'm not arguing against immigration - I'm an immigrant myself. I'm tolerant and I welcome everyone who wishes to adapt to living in a western society, but it's within everyone's liberty to choose whether or not to do so and I'm not going to force beliefs down anyone's throat. What I'm talking about is preservation of values that I believe in, values that should be passed on to the next generation and ones that are not necessarily welcome in immigrant societies. I want Europe to survive as Europe, not a hub of conflict between scattered ghettos of different minorities. I believe in equality, freedom of expression and liberty - I don't want them replaced with imported values that are potentially oppressive and unjust.

 

[WiiCube_2013]

@ Sark

Israel and Japan aren't open arms to foreigners for a reason as they prefer to have their own people rather than outside strangers and I can see why they'd do that, problem is, doing so means those said people are going to be shipped to some European country or US.

You can call me racist all you want but that's just how I feel about it.

 

[VinsCool]

@ Sark

Israel and Japan aren't open arms to foreigners for a reason as they prefer to have their own people rather than outside strangers and I can see why they'd do that, problem is, doing so means those said people are going to be shipped to some European country or US.

You can call me racist all you want but that's just how I feel about it.

I don't see why this is a problem.

 

[WiiCube_2013]

I don't see why this is a problem.

They want to hold on to their own values, culture and people who were originally from said country as allowing foreigners would make them no different from an European country that's already filled with more than it should.

It's just what happens with multiculturalism. Different people, different religions/politics and ultimately it'll create problems.

 

[Foxi4]

Immigration is a two-way street in my mind - if you immigrate, you should adapt to your new surroundings, not demand change of said surroundings to better fit your world view. Preserving one's culture is definitely important sarkwalvein and I'm not saying that immigrants should forget their roots - they should definitely celebrate them. At the same time however they are required to assimilate - pick up the baseline social rules of their new home rather than impose their own values on others. They made the first step and chose to relocate, they were welcomed into the society, they should return in kindness by contributing to the greater good and adapting.

 

[sarkwalvein]

@ Sark

Israel and Japan aren't open arms to foreigners for a reason as they prefer to have their own people rather than outside strangers and I can see why they'd do that, problem is, doing so means those said people are going to be shipped to some European country or US.

You can call me racist all you want but that's just how I feel about it.

I understand your point and what you want to prevent, only that I think it is more related to culture than to genes.
I won't be a hypocrite in this regard, I completely agree with the idea of maintaining the culture and lifestyle of your Nation. Only that I think this is not related to genes but to culture and it wouldn't be a problem if immigrants adapted and fitted into western society.
But:

I'm an immigrant myself. I'm tolerant and I welcome everyone who wishes to adapt to living in a western society, but it's within everyone's liberty to choose whether or not to do so and I'm not going to force beliefs down anyone's throat.

Telling someone that they should take forget their (probably oppressive) values, take your own values as the worthy ones and adapt to your society would probably be... not a good idea... of course anyone would take that as an offense.
But hell, if you go to live in somebody else country, you should do your part and try to fit.
Ah... I don't like it because of that. The not trying to fit part.

 

[Foxi4]

I don't think "fitting in" and "preserving one's cultural identity" can't co-exist. I'm not saying that muslims should turn christian all of a sudden, but they have to realize that they're in a new environment now and have to adapt to their circumstances. I could spend some time riding the offensive line of things that are not welcome in the west, but I don't think that's constructive. Let's just say that if your customs go directly against the law of the country you've relocated to, you should stop practicing them.

 

[WiiCube_2013]

I don't think "fitting in" and "preserving one's cultural identity" can't co-exist. I'm not saying that muslims should turn christian all of a sudden, but they have to realize that they're in a new environment now have to adapt to their circumstances. I could spend some time riding the offensive line of things that are not welcome in the west, but I don't think that's constructive. Let's just say that if your customs go directly against the law of the country you've relocated to, you should stop practicing them.

Muslims in UK (or more so London) have tried to make the Sharia Law an official law and this just wouldn't bond well at all because it has people from all kinds of religions, beliefs and countries so by doing so they'd be forcing western women to read scarfs and hide their hair (maybe faces too) plus other stuff.

I personally think Muslims in UK are normally fine people but then there are those extremist whom want to shove their believes in others by taking their lives and so on.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I don't think "fitting in" and "preserving one's cultural identity" are mutually exclusive. I'm not saying that muslims should turn christian all of a sudden, but they have to realize that they're in a new environment now have to adapt to their circumstances. I could spend some time riding the offensive line of things that are not welcome in the west, but I don't think that's constructive. Let's just say that if your customs go directly against the law of the country you've relocated to, you should stop practicing them.

I don't think so either, but the easy way is normally taken, that is to just form a Ghetto and think of it as an extension of your own country, instead of trying to fit in into society while preserving your culture.
Perhaps countries that decide to take immigrants (or in this case let's be clear, refugees) should go out of their way in allocating resources to help them adapt to society somewhat, I suppose many times they don't even try to fit because of language and education..
I don't really know, but I think it should go with a slogan like "adopt immigrants responsibly", and if you do as a country, you must also go out of your way to make the adapting and fitting as swift as possible (even if this should actually be the responsibility of the immigrant).
Hell, I come from a country made 100% of immigrants, I don't see this kind of problems there (normally, at least not related to immigrants from the middle east and there are many).

 

[Foxi4]

I think religion is a mucky subject so I'll try avoid it altogether, there are worse problems to worry about. Not to throw around empty posts, female genital mutilation is one such problem. I'm sorry, but it's just not acceptable in our society and it's not even a religious practice, so it can't be shielded by the right to practice religion of your choice (although I have problems with certain religious doctrines if they have a direct effect on day-to-day life of others or are downright illegal in other circumstances, like for instance the jewish ritual slaughter of cows without stunning them). There can be no tolerance for illegally mutilating women, we're not barbarians.

 

[RolfXCIV]

I think the whole idea of preserving identity and fitting in is wrong, as well as trying to rise a new one. To me, every citizen should abide by the countries' rules, if they're in agreement with the international laws. To me, the ideal would be for everyone to have their lives in full concordance with the country's functionality (learn the local language, please) and there shouldn't be any communities, but close friends and family at best. In the UK other ethnicities tend to organise themselves in separate communities, and that's their fault, but you have to understand that they probably weren't that welcomed at first. I've traveled to the UK several times as a caucasian from EU with just an ID and never had any problem, but when I see someone sitting in customs they usually seem indian, arab, or eastern asian. In Portugal, there's a discrimination against romani and black people, and it has xenophobic shames from the past.

I hate to say it too, but sadly Europe is becoming "Eurabia" as it's getting to be more about middle eastern people and Africans so whites are in a decrease and it saddens me because it's more of foreigners than anything else.
As much as I love my nieces as well as my nephews, I adore them a bit less because they're not white and I know this sounds racist but it just feels like we're losing way too much. *sigh*
Just take UK for example, most Brits have left it or don't live in the centre and due to that the majority of its residents are Arabics, Indians, Pakistans, Africans and all that, and regardless if they call themselves "British" they aren't as their skin colour, roots and blood aren't truly British.

British isn't an ethnicity. It's a mix of celts, romans, anglo-saxons, norsemen, normans; excluding all the europeans that moved and reproduced there, as well as the influence left by colonialism and the days of Empire. The first people that moved to Britain either perished with the Ice Age or ran away to southern Europe. European countries are all intertwined by blood, at this moment it's thought we're almost all blood related to the british royal family. Try to comprehend that it's a positive thing to be a multicultural country, because the people become biologically stronger from it. It's a natural feeling, to like someone less because they aren't from the same colour; what you can do about it is rationally understand there is no reason for it.

 

[BullyWiiPlaza]

Even lazy or incompetent people have a soul and their individual needs. Would you want to be restricted because of your social status or the work you do?
And what is a "better than average" human anyway? Someone with with a special degree?

Does that really make sense?

A human who deserves to exist more is someone who contributes to society. A degree proves that you're skilled at something and it grants you more money when you work so it helps the economy to grow. The other people however who use society as a net to fall into and not give anything back simply because they can these days, don't.

Does having a degree make you a better parent?

It doesn't tell anything about how good as a parent you are but it doesn't matter since you're making sure that your children will accomplish something like yourself so it's again helping to society. The son of a welfare recipient will most likely be one too which holds society back from progressing because others have to work for them to live. Where would we be without hard-working and smart people? Still in the stone age all trying to survive forever and nothing else.

 

[sarkwalvein]

A human who deserves to exist more is someone who contributes to society. A degree proves that you're skilled at something and it grants you more money when you work so it helps the economy to grow. The other people however who use society as a net to fall into and not give anything back simply because they can these days, don't.

It doesn't tell anything about how good as a parent you are but it doesn't matter since you're making sure that your children will accomplish something like yourself so it's again helping to society. The son of a welfare recipient will most likely be one too which holds society back from progressing because others have to work for them to live. Where would we be without hard-working and smart people? Still in the stone age all trying to survive forever and nothing else.

Well, I believe that contributing to society is important, and particularly in Germany having a degree or at least an Ausbildung is necessary for that most of the time as it is a highly specialized society.
It is not the same everywhere and for everyone, one can be a productive member of society without a degree, but nevertheless the strong point there is "contributing to society".
People that just live out of the state as leeches without giving anything back are shameless... It is OK to receive public aid just as a temporary measure, but when your life is based on that with no plan of moving on... nope... not good.
And I also agree, those shameless habits are generally taught to children and carried on to the next generation unfortunately.

 

[Hungry Friend]

For fuck's sake, there's no such thing as someone who "doesn't deserve to exist". That's just heartless, sociopathic thinking and that type of shit certainly isn't doing the human race any favors. Relationships(which of course include reproduction) can't be boiled down to cold logic; they're deeper than that. I'm not saying people who say those types of things have no conscience, but what about those who are severely mentally and/or physically disabled who want to live happy, full lives which includes sex? Of course traits like that shouldn't be passed on if you look at it from a purely logical standpoint but relationships/love and in turn, having children is a complicated issue that can't ever simply be boiled down to genetics and logic. Judge not lest you be judged, and that applies even if you're not religious at all.

Still though, I have no desire to have kids at this point in time. I have higher than average intelligence, a super immune system(got over chickenpox in 3 days, the flu in 5 etc.) and people from my dad's side of the family(where my immune system comes from) generally live past 95, sometimes over 100. I'm not athletic but I am sturdy, healthy and somewhat strong. Strength comes from my mom's side, but I don't have that quick twitch gene/genes. I simply don't have the proper mindset required to raise kids at the moment, and the last thing I want is to have kids and be a shitty father.